[SM] Super Metroid: Golden Dawn

2007-12-11 08:06:54 pm

Can I just ask what the differences are between the normal and hard versions, other than difficulty? I'll play it again if it's a semi-new experience but if it's not much more than enemy DNA changes and more spikes (:P) then I dunno if I'll take the time. I have my second playthrough to get back to SBing.

Black Telomeres

Edit history:

Black Telomeres: 2007-12-11 08:38:10 pm

2007-12-11 08:30:26 pm

The changes are mentioned in the readme:

It was inspired by my little 'speed run' of said hack - where the later bosses were exquisitely difficult because of my lack of energy tanks and some other facts but still very beatable.

E-tanks are reduced to 7 max (what I had near the end of my 'speed run'), some boss difficulty is stepped up, the occasional level design bit is altered to increase challenge, some enemies take slightly more damage, some enemies are replaced in spots with higher level enemies, and the item order is remixed a bit, closer to my original intent in places. Early items aren't in too much of a different order, but there are some later items that are in signficantly different locations.

Oh and I suppose its notable that the Varia is in Norfair rather than Dark Gardens. I don't actually recall adding many spikes at all besides in a few rooms, since that's just cheap difficulty. The e-tank max decrease is the big thing (thus making the bosses and some areas of the planet more difficult), as well as the items being swapped around a bit.

The changes are mentioned in the readme:

It was inspired by my little 'speed run' of said hack - where the later bosses were exquisitely difficult because of my lack of energy tanks and some other facts but still very beatable.

E-tanks are reduced to 7 max (what I had near the end of my 'speed run'), some boss difficulty is stepped up, the occasional level design bit is altered to increase challenge, some enemies take slightly more damage, some enemies are replaced in spots with higher level enemies, and the item order is remixed a bit, closer to my original intent in places. Early items aren't in too much of a different order, but there are some later items that are in signficantly different locations.

Oh and I suppose its notable that the Varia is in Norfair rather than Dark Gardens. I don't actually recall adding many spikes at all besides in a few rooms, since that's just cheap difficulty. The e-tank max decrease is the big thing (thus making the bosses and some areas of the planet more difficult), as well as the items being swapped around a bit.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-11 08:42:11 pm

Ah thanks. Sounds like it'd be worth another playthrough. :D

Black Telomeres

2007-12-11 09:03:18 pm

Yeah, basically I made it so that if people were contemplating a replay some time in the future, they could play the hard version for a mix up in the form of more challenge rather than replaying the normal version. I also didn't want the fact that I'd tested beating GT with 5 e-tanks and Draygon with 6 while rushing through the normal game to go to waste. And it allowed me to release a version with an item order that was closer to what I had planned originally, as I mentioned.

Although the one item I didn't move to where it was originally supposed to be was the Gravity suit. I had originally intended it to be after Kraid, with the Power Bombs being the reward for beating Botwoon (the noobtube would've prevented people from getting them any other way, rather than the sequence break possibility that currently exists there now.) That would've worked a bit better, but all the shortcuts (especially the one back to Tetra) only open up in the Eternal Hall once you get PBs, so that plan had to be changed for added player convenience.

Yeah, basically I made it so that if people were contemplating a replay some time in the future, they could play the hard version for a mix up in the form of more challenge rather than replaying the normal version. I also didn't want the fact that I'd tested beating GT with 5 e-tanks and Draygon with 6 while rushing through the normal game to go to waste. And it allowed me to release a version with an item order that was closer to what I had planned originally, as I mentioned.

Although the one item I didn't move to where it was originally supposed to be was the Gravity suit. I had originally intended it to be after Kraid, with the Power Bombs being the reward for beating Botwoon (the noobtube would've prevented people from getting them any other way, rather than the sequence break possibility that currently exists there now.) That would've worked a bit better, but all the shortcuts (especially the one back to Tetra) only open up in the Eternal Hall once you get PBs, so that plan had to be changed for added player convenience.

TrueMasamune

2007-12-12 04:33:58 pm

Well,I've made my way back to were I was before I got trapped :-D, But now I've got a 2 questions

Should I have the charge beam and power bombs before I fight phantom?,I've read earlier posts mentioning people fighting croc with the charge beam and I beat croc awhile ago so thats why I'm wondering because ive been looking for the charge beam forever but I cant find it.So maybe i'm guessing it was altered for the hard ver along with the power bombs, am I right?

Anima Zero

2007-12-12 05:09:02 pm

Quote from TrueMasamune:

Well,I've made my way back to were I was before I got trapped :-D, But now I've got a 2 questions

Should I have the charge beam and power bombs before I fight phantom?,I've read earlier posts mentioning people fighting croc with the charge beam and I beat croc awhile ago so thats why I'm wondering because ive been looking for the charge beam forever but I cant find it.So maybe i'm guessing it was altered for the hard ver along with the power bombs, am I right?

I'll assume your using the hardmode patch for this :P.

Anyways, you should have the charge beam by now. Power bombs are still a bit of time away (Another boss guards them). The charge beam is located in Tetra Ruins in the room where the first E-Tank was in normal mode (room before the 1st pack of missiles you pick up).

If you're by some chance using the normal mode patch, the charge beam is in Tetra Ruins in the first room with space pirates.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-13 02:57:20 pm

I decided to spice up my Hardmode game.

Justin Bailey patch seems to work fine with your game BT. I'm having fun exploring your worlds again. It's like playing a half hack of your game with the items and stuff moved around. :D

Fano7

2007-12-13 06:44:38 pm

Every Bit Counts

Restarted and got far. I one hour I'm already at the Varia. This seems easy for some reason (the exploration). Mabey it has something to do with me beating Redesign?

Black Telomeres

2007-12-13 06:58:00 pm

Quote from Fano7:

Restarted and got far. I one hour I'm already at the Varia. This seems easy for some reason (the exploration). Mabey it has something to do with me beating Redesign?

Probably. Sometimes you gain skill with this type of thing without even noticing it while you're playing another hack. For example, the first time I played Redesign, I found it relatively difficult, but then after a couple years (literally) I came back to it after having played a few more halfhacks and testing my own, and it really didn't seem too outrageously difficult.

Quote from FirePhoenix0:

Justin Bailey patch seems to work fine with your game BT.

Yeah, that patch should work fine with any hack that doesn't change any ASM related to the suit or the intro pics, etc. While I like the suitless Samus design of the hack I posted about in the "Mystery hack" thread better, that one is alright too.

TrueMasamune

Edit history:

TrueMasamune: 2007-12-14 05:37:54 pm

2007-12-14 04:34:22 pm

Just finished the hack and I must say it was great.It was a little slow at the start but surely starts to pick up,Especially at the end ,

Escape/Ridley W/Hyper Beam was great,Nice one!!

Also,

The golden chicken boss fight (I forgot its name,Golden Choco??..I forget),Did you intent for the player to be able to retreat to the ledges so they could crystal flash??,Because I acually had to do that,lol.It was a long fight for me since all I had was charge/ice(And I must give thanks to AnimaZero for helping me find the charge or else I would of got my ass handed to me) and it seemed to take forever to damage it with that hence I had to retreat to replenish my health as the battle wore on.

Finish Time 5:10
Item C. 67 %
HardMode Ver

Again,Nice hack man. 8-)

FirePhoenix

2007-12-14 05:26:00 pm

Beat Hardmode too. It was fun to play again because things weren't where they were in the easy version. However, even with only 7 E Tanks and no R Tanks, it wasn't that much tougher than the original version. Still, fun to play and adding the Justin Bailey patch allowed me to test that out as well.

Completion time: 3:34
Item Collection: 90%

What's the max percentage for this one? I know I missed at least one item in one of the long rooms in the Eternal Hall. When I finished, my item counts were 7, 175, 80, 80.

Black Telomeres

2007-12-14 07:11:59 pm

Quote from TrueMasamune:

Also,

The golden chicken boss fight (I forgot its name,Golden Choco??..I forget),Did you intent for the player to be able to retreat to the ledges so they could crystal flash??,Because I acually had to do that,lol.It was a long fight for me since all I had was charge/ice(And I must give thanks to AnimaZero for helping me find the charge or else I would of got my ass handed to me) and it seemed to take forever to damage it with that hence I had to retreat to replenish my health as the battle wore on.

I didn't really think about that, no. So people are doing things the designer never intended, which is good grin new

It was possible for you to have the spazer at that point. Even with the Spazer and the health refills GT's projectiles can give you, though, it's still mostly like a war of attrition in hardmode, because Super missiles don't work. It also seems like people make a lot of use of the crystal flash in this hack (other people have used it in other areas - the wave beam area mostly), making almost a mainstream, viable technique. I never really had to use it but I can understand how in some places, circumstances might conspire against you as far as energy and it'd be smart to use it.

Quote from FirePhoenix0:

Beat Hardmode too. It was fun to play again because things weren't where they were in the easy version. However, even with only 7 E Tanks and no R Tanks, it wasn't that much tougher than the original version.

Maybe you had figured out good techniques for beating the bosses the very first time and having less e-tanks then only required a bit more precision. Either that or your first time playthrough missed some e-tanks and was harder than I intended. I can't imagine what I'd have to do to make it drastically harder than the original version of the game for you then though. Well, unless I just added an insane amount of spikes and put in some mockball obstructions; but that wouldn't be that fun as far as I'm concerned. :|

Quote from FirePhoenix0:

What's the max percentage for this one? I know I missed at least one item in one of the long rooms in the Eternal Hall. When I finished, my item counts were 7, 175, 80, 80.

Max % is still 100 - it's just the e-tanks that were removed were replaced with random other items.

[quote="TrueMasamune"]

Also,[spoiler]The golden chicken boss fight (I forgot its name,Golden Choco??..I forget),Did you intent for the player to be able to retreat to the ledges so they could crystal flash??,Because I acually had to do that,lol.It was a long fight for me since all I had was charge/ice(And I must give thanks to AnimaZero for helping me find the charge or else I would of got my ass handed to me) and it seemed to take forever to damage it with that hence I had to retreat to replenish my health as the battle wore on. [/spoiler]
[/quote]

I didn't really think about that, no. So people are doing things the designer never intended, which is good  :grinnew: It was possible for you to have the spazer at that point. Even with the Spazer and the health refills GT's projectiles can give you, though, it's still mostly like a war of attrition in hardmode, because Super missiles don't work. It also seems like people make a lot of use of the crystal flash in this hack (other people have used it in other areas - the wave beam area mostly), making almost a mainstream, viable technique. I never really had to use it but I can understand how in some places, circumstances might conspire against you as far as energy and it'd be smart to use it.

[quote="FirePhoenix0"]
Beat Hardmode too.  It was fun to play again because things weren't where they were in the easy version.   However, even with only 7 E Tanks and no R Tanks, it wasn't that much tougher than the original version. 
[/quote]
Maybe you had figured out good techniques for beating the bosses the very first time and having less e-tanks then only required a bit more precision. Either that or your first time playthrough missed some e-tanks and was harder than I intended. I can't imagine what I'd have to do to make it drastically harder than the original version of the game for you then though. Well, unless I just added an insane amount of spikes and put in some mockball obstructions; but that wouldn't be that fun as far as I'm concerned.  :|

[quote="FirePhoenix0"]
What's the max percentage for this one?  I know I missed at least one item in one of the long rooms in the Eternal Hall.  When I finished, my item counts were 7, 175, 80, 80.
[/quote]

Max % is still 100 - it's just the e-tanks that were removed were replaced with random other items.

TrueMasamune

Edit history:

TrueMasamune: 2007-12-14 10:51:18 pm

2007-12-14 10:48:54 pm

I also didnt find the hack too difficult,But then,I had also finished playing Impossible for the 2nd time before I played this and thats also why I started with hardmode to begin with.

Although I must say

Draygon was a bit of a challenge for me,With the limited terrain,The shooting sparks,and not much opportunity to hit draygon's weak point,To me,It felt like I was wrestling Impossible's draygon again.Oh and how can I forget the golden chicken.He was a pain in the ass as well.

But anyways,I think the game's challenge was just right.I know if I probably hadnt of played impossible first,Then this would of been harder.I'm also for a game being more fun rather then excruciately challenging as well,I'm more into a game thats not too frustrating.If this hack's difficulty would of been on the caliber of that of Impossible's,Then I don't think I would of restarted it again when I got trapped at one point.But I did because the game was exciting and I wanted to go thru it again,That and also I wanted to finish it extra_smug

.

I also didnt find the hack too difficult,But then,I had also finished playing Impossible for the 2nd time before I played this and thats also why I started with hardmode to begin with.

Although I must say [spoiler]Draygon was a bit of a challenge for me,With the limited terrain,The shooting sparks,and not much opportunity to hit draygon's weak point,To me,It felt like I was wrestling Impossible's draygon again.Oh and how can I forget the golden chicken.He was a pain in the ass as well. [/spoiler]

But anyways,I think the game's challenge was just right.I know if I probably hadnt of played impossible first,Then this would of been harder.I'm also for a game being more fun rather then excruciately challenging as well,I'm more into a game thats not too frustrating.If this hack's difficulty would of been on the caliber of that of Impossible's,Then I don't think I would of restarted it again when I got trapped at one point.But I did because the game was exciting and I wanted to go thru it again,That and also I wanted to finish it :extra_smug: .

FirePhoenix

2007-12-14 11:09:04 pm

No, no, no, I have no problem with the current difficulty. It was enjoyably hard and that's why I still found it fun.

Quote from TrueMasamune:

Although I must say

Draygon was a bit of a challenge for me,With the limited terrain,The shooting sparks,and not much opportunity to hit draygon's weak point,To me,It felt like I was wrestling Impossible's draygon again.Oh and how can I forget the golden chicken.He was a pain in the ass as well.

You must not have realized that

you can do a grapple kill on Draygon by attaching to the grapple blocks. The grapple kill doesn't care what you're attached to as long as you are attached to something.

TrueMasamune

Edit history:

TrueMasamune: 2007-12-15 12:38:09 am

2007-12-14 11:27:09 pm

Wow,I completly forgot about the grapple kill.I guess because I was still used to fighting draygon without it because of impossible,lol.

Black Telomeres

2007-12-15 01:41:34 am

That's something a lot of people didn't pick up on (not even my playtesters.) Most people probably naturally assume that regular grapple blocks won't work. So it's rather tricky. Maybe I should've removed them for the hardmode 8-)

Cardweaver

2007-12-15 03:43:05 am

Alas, I naturally assumed that they wouldn't work, and then proceeded to savestate abuse the crap out of him. I ending up triple CFing during that fight.

FirePhoenix

2007-12-15 10:04:45 pm

The only reason I found out about it is because in one hack that didn't give you Space Jump as the item for beating him, there was a lone Grapple Block to get back up. I accidentally attached to it when trying for a normal grapple kill.

Edward_Tohr

2007-12-15 10:54:47 pm

Stuffs. Yar.

Well, being the first person to post about it in this thread, I suppose I should also credit my source.

I was trying to beat it (Yay for non gender-specific pronouns, the antecedent to which is Draygon! :P), to no avail, so I took a break, and decided to read some old topics. Long story short, I found a post by Kej that told that, and was delighted to see that it worked. :P

Black Telomeres

2007-12-16 04:13:55 am

Figures that Kejardon is breaking games he doesn't even know exist laugh new

sonic shadow

Edit history:

sonic shadow: 2007-12-26 05:30:14 pm

2007-12-26 05:02:44 pm

Can someone tell me where are the first missiles/MB bombs??? I am searchint for it in a half hour! *faints*

EDIT:NVM, found it. Damn you, captain obvious >.>

EDIT2:Dang, I didn't found them, I just found Tetra Ruins and I'm stuck in the first room <.<

Black Telomeres

2007-12-27 07:56:35 am

The first room shouldn't be too unobvious, since you wouldn't just go up there on those crumble block platforms just to run into a dead end. It wouldn't be natural. Midair morphing up against the wall to the left will allow you to push through and into the hidden passage.

sonic shadow

Edit history:

sonic shadow: 2007-12-27 09:49:05 am

2007-12-27 09:21:40 am

Yeah, I just figured that out by accident *shot*
But now I got an E-tank and do not know where to go. Still don't have missiles, nor MB bombs. I cannot figure out the way to get out Tetra Ruins.

Black Telomeres

2007-12-27 11:39:50 am

Right under that e-tank, through the floordoor, you can land on a platform and there are a series of platforms leading over to the giant metal structure hanging from the ceiling in the room. Inside that is the missile pack.

sonic shadow

2007-12-27 11:42:38 am

Yeah, I just got them. Now I cannot get out the Tetra Ruins *shot*
I can get only to the "OMG Samus runs in water!" room, and the water makes impossible walljumping up the shaft or whaterver this is called =p