[SM] Super Metroid Impossible

2007-01-21 07:24:14 pm

Quote from BlueGlass:

A perfect super short charge without slowdown would actually be harder than finding xray, as a perfect super short charge (or perfect regular short charge) is 100% impossible for human beings unassisted. We simply don't have good enough timing to time our movements to 1/60 of a second.

I'm not saying I'm doing it that precise. It's just not possible. I'm trying to say that as I am pressing the run button (in an attempt to get the to breakpoint), I'm holding the button long enough to try to hit that breakpoint (which is as long as a quick tap). Also I use the environment to help figure where the breakpoint might be.

For example:

As I begin to run, I just quickly tap the run button and hope I hit the checkpoint. When I do hit the run button, let's say I pressed it on frame 20 and I happen to release it on frame 28. Then I attempt to perform that same task for the other 3 breakpoints. Of course, this means that the distance you cover is more than that of a true short charge.

However, that distance isn't short enough for the super missile. You have to stutter charge. So, I just used the key combination editor on ZSNES to do the trick.

I'm not sure how else I can explain this.

[quote="BlueGlass"]A perfect super short charge without slowdown would actually be harder than finding xray, as a perfect super short charge (or perfect regular short charge) is 100% impossible for human beings unassisted.  We simply don't have good enough timing to time our movements to 1/60 of a second.[/quote]

I'm not saying I'm doing it that precise. It's just not possible. I'm trying to say that as I am pressing the run button (in an attempt to get the to breakpoint), I'm holding the button long enough to try to hit that breakpoint (which is as long as a quick tap). Also I use the environment to help figure where the breakpoint [i]might[/i] be.

For example:

As I begin to run, I just quickly tap the run button and hope I hit the checkpoint. When I do hit the run button, let's say I pressed it on frame 20 and I happen to release it on frame 28. Then I attempt to perform that same task for the other 3 breakpoints. Of course, this means that the distance you cover is more than that of a true short charge.

However, that distance isn't short enough for the super missile. You have to stutter charge. So, I just used the key combination editor on ZSNES to do the trick.
[img]http://i104.photobucket.com/albums/m185/Omega_Ridley_2006/SuperMetroidImpossibleScreenShot2.jpg[/img]

I'm not sure how else I can explain this.

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-22 03:57:01 am

Here is something "interesting" as well... Don´t know if this can be avoided in the future though. :)

attachment:

Gauntlet energy tank alternative method.smv

Rothlenar

2007-01-22 01:14:50 pm

I don't think it would matter because there only seems to be one way of entering and exiting, and you have to enter from that one spot before you can exit from the whole thing in the first place.

Here's a big hint about the snail tanks.

Use a snail for the grapple block.

Lance Uppercut

2007-01-22 04:44:11 pm

I don´t quite get what you mean. Those clips are only to demonstrate some alternative methods to get those items. Though I still didn´t get through the

grapple block entrance

. :)

Yes, I tried the snail briefly but that didn´t funk either right now.

It´s always nice to search new ways to get items and reach places even though the results don´t benefit anyone.

I´m still wishing to get the super missile with snails too but that´s a little harder task.

Rothlenar

2007-02-04 04:24:29 pm

Quote from Rothlenar:

I'm not sure how else I can explain this.

Well, I guess I could say, "Think Hotarubi."

Sneaky Paradox

2007-02-06 12:32:01 am

Woohoo! First post! lol.

Where should I go now?

4 E-Tanks
1 Reserve Tank
30 Missiles
10 Super Missiles
5 Power Bombs

BlueGlass

2007-02-06 01:33:10 am

Maridia.

Sneaky Paradox

2007-02-06 07:37:56 am

Thanks.

Skreemaster

2007-02-07 12:08:25 pm

I'll be back. Maybe...

there's a fine line between difficulty and tedium. you crossed it about six rooms into the game.

this isn't a hack for masters, it's a hack for those with enough patience to use frame-by-frame and savestates on every. single. room. putting spikes and super missile blocks everywhere people least want them isn't a way to make a good hack.

also linearity doesn't make for a good metroid game. you should have realised that by now.

Saturn

2007-02-07 12:55:59 pm

Quote from Skreemaster:

this isn't a hack for masters, it's a hack for those with enough patience to use frame-by-frame and savestates on every. single. room.

This is simply BS from the finest. I mentioned it countless times that it's not designed to be played with frame by frame or slowdowns. Savestates, yes as long as required, but no slowdown. I did test everything myself in realtime, and it's very well possible with patience and practise that way. If people use frame by frame to pass it, well thats their choice, and I agree then, this are no masters.

Quote from Skreemaster:

putting spikes and super missile blocks everywhere people least want them isn't a way to make a good hack.

For those who can't play Super Metroid indeed. But they shouldn't even try then, as mentioned in the topic title. I think good players will definitely enjoy it to get such new and unexpected challenges, if they like playing the original, but get bored from having it too easy. This liking of new and difficult challenges applies to me as well. For example I often went through that gauntlet azid room after getting bombs just for fun on the original back in the 90's, just for practise, so I thought to share this nice experience with others in this hack as well.

Quote from Skreemaster:

also linearity doesn't make for a good metroid game. you should have realised that by now.

It's intentionally linear, to show the original Super Metroid in a very difficult way nobody didn't realized to be possible. The player should be familiar with most locations, this was a goal of mine from the beginning.

[quote="Skreemaster"]this isn't a hack for masters, it's a hack for those with enough patience to use frame-by-frame and savestates on every. single. room.[/quote]
This is simply BS from the finest. I mentioned it countless times that it's not designed to be played with frame by frame or slowdowns. Savestates, yes as long as required, but no slowdown. I did test everything myself in realtime, and it's very well possible with patience and practise that way. If people use frame by frame to pass it, well thats their choice, and I agree then, this are no masters.

[quote="Skreemaster"]putting spikes and super missile blocks everywhere people least want them isn't a way to make a good hack.[/quote]
For those who can't play Super Metroid indeed. But they shouldn't even try then, as mentioned in the topic title. I think good players will definitely enjoy it to get such new and unexpected challenges, if they like playing the original, but get bored from having it too easy. This liking of new and difficult challenges applies to me as well. For example I often went through that gauntlet azid room after getting bombs just for fun on the original back in the 90's, just for practise, so I thought to share this nice experience with others in this hack as well.

[quote="Skreemaster"]also linearity doesn't make for a good metroid game. you should have realised that by now.[/quote]
It's intentionally linear, to show the original Super Metroid in a very difficult way nobody didn't realized to be possible. The player should be familiar with most locations, this was a goal of mine from the beginning.

Lance Uppercut

2007-02-07 04:12:38 pm

I have to say I enjoyed this hack thoroughly, because I was getting bored of the regular one. I often ran around in Norfair without Varia because I wanted some suspense into my playing. Maridia without gravity didnt bring suspense, but challenge in a whole different way. This hack REQUIRES both of those things so I am very happy that something like this has been made. I am not really fond of searching things high and low, therefore it is great (for me at least) that the map is basically the same as in original. Items are not all in their original places but that much searching even I can do.

About spikes... they do make this hack a little bit tedious in some way, but it is very hard to add enough challenge so that most rooms are more challenging than in the original. Save states are used, but it really is up to player how much they are used.

This hack requires the knowledge of many tricks (not glitches really).
If someone cant perform eg. mockball, fast wall jump or short charge, this hack really isnt for those people.

Completing this hack was not frustrating at all, but 100% is pretty annoying at times. It really grinds my gears that the x-ray is so well hidden. I think pretty much everybody is fed up searching that thing already. Someday someone will find it by accident (if that is even possible) and the circle will be complete :)

I have to say I enjoyed this hack thoroughly, because I was getting bored of the regular one. I often ran around in Norfair without Varia because I wanted some suspense into my playing. Maridia without gravity didnt bring suspense, but challenge in a whole different way. This hack REQUIRES both of those things so I am very happy that something like this has been made. I am not really fond of searching things high and low, therefore it is great (for me at least) that the map is basically the same as in original. Items are not all in their original places but that much searching even I can do.

About spikes... they do make this hack a little bit tedious in some way, but it is very hard to add enough challenge so that most rooms are more challenging than in the original. Save states are used, but it really is up to player how much they are used.

This hack requires the knowledge of many tricks (not glitches really).
If someone cant perform eg. mockball, fast wall jump or short charge, this hack really isnt for those people.

Completing this hack was not frustrating at all, but 100% is pretty annoying at times. It really grinds my gears that the x-ray is so well hidden. I think pretty much everybody is fed up searching that thing already. Someday someone will find it by accident (if that is even possible) and the circle will be complete  :)

Skreemaster

2007-02-07 04:23:05 pm

I'll be back. Maybe...

sure, some people like that sort of challenge. but the ibj and dbj are really unnecessary. and it's very annoying not being able to kill enemies like zoomers from the start. the difficulty should be based around having the ingenuity to solve new types of problems, rather than having to get certain tricks frame-perfect, which is a problem in norfair without varia.

now i must eat my words as... alas! HELP!

how do you get from bottom left to top right of the bubble room in central norfair? do you have to use ibj to climb up, or is that no longer possible and you have to go round through the heated rooms instead?

edit: it's no longer possible, i see. but i don't seem to have enough energy tanks to get around, because i seem to be coming up two rooms short of the end. am i missing an obvious recharge location?

one other thing: when you've replaced one item with another but made it not accessible until later, wouldn't it have been better to replace the first block with a super/power block rather than the last one?

edit:

and a second other thing... i don't like the trap i just found with a crumble block right in front of the door in the bubble room to undo all the hard work getting there. that's just not fair. there shouldn't be spikes or crumbles right in front of door transitions where you can't see them until you're right on top of them.

sure, some people like that sort of challenge. but the ibj and dbj are really unnecessary. and it's very annoying not being able to kill enemies like zoomers from the start. the difficulty should be based around having the ingenuity to solve new types of problems, rather than having to get certain tricks frame-perfect, which is a problem in norfair without varia.

now i must eat my words as... alas! HELP!
[spoiler]
how do you get from bottom left to top right of the bubble room in central norfair? do you have to use ibj to climb up, or is that no longer possible and you have to go round through the heated rooms instead?

edit: it's no longer possible, i see. but i don't seem to have enough energy tanks to get around, because i seem to be coming up two rooms short of the end. am i missing an obvious recharge location?
[/spoiler]

one other thing: when you've replaced one item with another but made it not accessible until later, wouldn't it have been better to replace the first block with a super/power block rather than the last one?

edit: [spoiler] and a second other thing... i don't like the trap i just found with a crumble block right in front of the door in the bubble room to undo all the hard work getting there. that's just not fair. there shouldn't be spikes or crumbles right in front of door transitions where you can't see them until you're right on top of them. [/spoiler]

Lance Uppercut

2007-02-07 04:48:59 pm

Seems to me like you would like to order a hack called something like: Super Metroid: Puzzlemaster :) that kind of hack would be awesome as well.

IBJ does not require frame perfection, not even near. The first one needs some timing and the rest are pretty easy when you get used to it. I have to admit that DBJ was annoying but I had to practise it and now I CAN!

EDIT: I see you got through/figured it out and editet =)

Skreemaster

2007-02-07 05:02:46 pm

I'll be back. Maybe...

well, obviously it wouldn't be metroid if it were entirely puzzles; that's taking it too far in the other direction. you need a balance of puzzles and skills.

also,

i found croc. should i have done?

Lance Uppercut

2007-02-07 05:58:52 pm

I thought you were a little further already, but thats just me.

Croc. meaning Crocomire? Sure, why not. Just keep going. Soon awaits one great puzzle and more bomb trickery you love so much :)

Saturn

2007-02-08 03:26:02 am

Quote from Skreemaster:

one other thing: when you've replaced one item with another but made it not accessible until later, wouldn't it have been better to replace the first block with a super/power block rather than the last one?

The item to the left of the Crateria mainstreet room (below the save point)? It should give the player hope to have access to it till the last block. Makes Tension and a nice surprise at the end, didn't it? :)

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

I have to admit that DBJ was annoying but I had to practise it and now I CAN!

See, it's like a Metroid class to become a top player in a very short time. Would you regret to have this valuable skill and knowledge to make DBJs in the future, Skreemaster?

Rothlenar

2007-02-09 08:06:53 pm

I'm still trying to figure out how to get that blasted snail super missile without tool assistance. The key combo picture that I posted several posts ago covers JUST ENOUGH distance to charge a shinespark. Hopefully there could be a hidden stretch long enough to do it in real time.

Also, I can't find a hole for that blasted brinstar tube missile tank before the n00b bridge. I've tried shooting and bombing every wall and ceiling with the Power Beam, Super Missiles, and Power Bombs, and I've also tried Grappling Beam. No holes and no blocks. I just hope I didn't miss a block because the repetition can make me lose focus at times.

Also:

Quote from ICheatAtGolf:

i have gotten the green brinstar tube missiles. a good idea would be to take off all beams and shoot everywhere, since you will be able to know when there's a hidden passage. it seems saturn uses these more than power-bombable-blocks. the tube tank can be found by traveling upward just before the blue gate. i think. my mind's a little fuzzy. and it really is disgustingly rediculous that the x-ray won't work in this hack, i thought each block is automatically coded to change or not to change when highlighted by the x-ray, the same way they are coded for wall jumps. do you think saturn changed this code?

This advice still doesn't help. Sorry for quoting a second time.

I'm still trying to figure out how to get that blasted snail super missile without tool assistance. The key combo picture that I posted several posts ago covers JUST ENOUGH distance to charge a shinespark. Hopefully there could be a hidden stretch long enough to do it in real time.

Also, I can't find a hole for that blasted brinstar tube missile tank before the n00b bridge. I've tried shooting and bombing every wall and ceiling with the Power Beam, Super Missiles, and Power Bombs, and I've also tried Grappling Beam. No holes and no blocks. I just hope I didn't miss a block because the repetition can make me lose focus at times.

Also:

[quote="ICheatAtGolf"]i have gotten the green brinstar tube missiles. a good idea would be to take off all beams and shoot everywhere, since you will be able to know when there's a hidden passage. it seems saturn uses these more than power-bombable-blocks.  the tube tank can be found by traveling upward just before the blue gate. i think. my mind's a little fuzzy.   and it really is disgustingly rediculous that the x-ray won't work in this hack, i thought each block is automatically coded to change or not to change when highlighted by the x-ray, the same way they are coded for wall jumps. do you think saturn changed this code?[/quote]

This advice still doesn't help. Sorry for quoting a second time.

BlueGlass

2007-02-09 10:40:36 pm

Quote from Rothlenar:

I'm still trying to figure out how to get that blasted snail super missile without tool assistance. The key combo picture that I posted several posts ago covers JUST ENOUGH distance to charge a shinespark. Hopefully there could be a hidden stretch long enough to do it in real time.

Saturn said he expected us to use slowdown for that item. Don't feel bad about it.

Rothlenar

2007-02-10 05:13:32 pm

Hmm...I just thought I would ask for the heck of it, even though it seems stupid to ask.

Yes or no: Is the X-Ray Scope on the Ceres Space Station?

moozooh

2007-02-10 05:56:09 pm

Although it's a nice guess, I remember Saturn saying that he'll place X-ray only after every boss is dead or something like that, so that players won't sequence break by using it. Check the statue room, it might be there (since I also remember him saying it's not in Tourian).

Lance Uppercut

2007-02-11 06:48:26 am

That is some jolly good thinking, but it is not there either... at least I think I checked every block in the statue room and the room before that.

I just hope we dont need to discover yet another trick to reveal the x-ray.

Aside from the grapple beam that is.

Saturn

2007-02-11 07:48:55 am

Indeed good points moozooh, and they are partially correct. But yes, it's not in Ceres Station of course. I didn't change it at all actually.

As for the statue room before Tourian, it's part of Crateria. And I think I once mentioned something about it regarding the X-Ray. :)

And no Lance, there are no unknown tricks required to get it.

BTW, did anybody got the Tube Missile already? I remember somebody mentioned to being able to get it before, but I still didn't see any proof-movie(s) of it.

Oh and maybe to mention it:

Quote from Lance Uppercut:

Gauntlet energy tank alternative method.smv

This is a very smart method that is impossible for me to fix, but it requires the Ice Beam anyway, so it doesn't matter since you get Ice as the latest item of all.

Lance Uppercut

2007-02-11 11:16:48 am

Quote from Saturn:

This is a very smart method that is impossible for me to fix, but it requires the Ice Beam anyway, so it doesn't matter since you get Ice as the latest item of all.

Yeah... maybe I just wanted to show what a desperate player can do if he cannot figure out how to get it the right way and still wants to get it :)

Leaving Ice beam last is definately one of the most effective ways to eliminate glitching.

Someone ought to make a complete opposite to this hack: Super Glitchtroid grin new

Oh yeah, and if I remember correctly, ICheatAtGolf said he got the tube missiles but he never made that smv showing how to get it...

EDIT: Saturn, I don´t mean to annoy you, but.... Rolling Eyes

Remember when I asked you how would you feel if someone obtained those missiles and supers in the snail room with snails....
I am still using v1.2 if that matters any, but the message might get through nevertheless.

attachment:

Snail supers with snails.smv

Rothlenar

2007-02-11 08:10:11 pm

Hahahahahaha...
That's great.

Quote from Saturn:

I didn't change it at all actually.

Except the time.

Ok, we know the X-Ray Scope is not in Tourian, Wrecked Ship, Crateria, or the Ceres Station. So, it must be in Brinstar, Maridia, or Norfair.

Tonski

2007-02-15 02:58:20 pm

I'm pretty much stuck with Draygon. It's the hardest boss ever:

-No free movement because of the gravity suit missing
-Those things shooting at you
-It takes more to kill Draygon, and most importanly...
-...it take less to kill you.

I'm not using slowdown, mut without savestates it's too darn annoying. Maybe someday I'll kill that (so I can't even say b-as-tard without it being changed to "Kraid").