New any-% WR in 27.40 by Spidey Widey

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2009-05-19 08:26:25 am

2009-05-19 07:35:00 am

Speedrunner

http://speeddemosarchive.com/MetroidZeroMission.html

Enjoy. This looks sub 28 was easily possible. Runner said even sub 27 might be possible. But how anyone can make run like this.

Awesome job Spidey Widey. New WR.

EDIT:
I just finished watch it. And i just can,t say anything else: THIS IS BEST ZM RUN EVER. aiwebs_016

How much luck he have in Tourian metroids & last segment was truly awesome.

Runner avoid almost every mistakes. Only bad spot was hive room this looks pretty rough. But he keep his awesome speed up everywhere game. So hive room mistakes is nothing compared how good this run was overall. Wink

Runner said sub 27 might be possible. I´ll say it not are really possible. But as well Transience already said sub 28 is nearly impossible goal with human, but it doesn,t.

Thread title:

Tyjet66

2009-05-19 12:56:13 pm

What'd you say?

oh

my

god! That was awesome!! Great job Spidey!!

Gu3st

2009-05-19 05:30:07 pm

Jagger ftw

His last run had horrible chozo fight, this run is sexy:)

transience

2009-05-20 03:03:15 am

twenty eight fifty

nice, sub-28. just heard about it from nate and saber. comments as i go..

segment 1: hive room was a disaster, everything else was pretty good. you skipped the missile that i should have, but i always got annoyed at running out of missiles for spore spawn after having a good run so i got it anyway. nice job here.

segment 2: you get a super missile drop on ridley that made me gawk due to an old route i used to take that is technically superior but incredibly difficult and luck-based. your ridley escape is amazing. everything else looked the same. shut the fuck up with those super missile drops in tourian. my tourian took longer than my other four segments combined.

segment 3: very nice mother brain and escape. suitless went really well except for one missed walljump. chozodia is standard fare, just with less energy. that makes it seem more exciting though, so cool. mecha ridley is self-explanatory; nice recovery at the very least. ending escape is pretty decent. this segment is quite good considering it's all at once.

nice job - nothing game-changing in this run, it's merely half a second better than mine in every other room.

nice, sub-28. just heard about it from nate and saber. comments as i go..

segment 1: hive room was a disaster, everything else was pretty good. you skipped the missile that i should have, but i always got annoyed at running out of missiles for spore spawn after having a good run so i got it anyway. nice job here.

segment 2: you get a super missile drop on ridley that made me gawk due to an old route i used to take that is technically superior but incredibly difficult and luck-based. your ridley escape is amazing. everything else looked the same. shut the fuck up with those super missile drops in tourian. my tourian took longer than my other four segments combined.

segment 3: very nice mother brain and escape. suitless went really well except for one missed walljump. chozodia is standard fare, just with less energy. that makes it seem more exciting though, so cool. mecha ridley is self-explanatory; nice recovery at the very least. ending escape is pretty decent. this segment is quite good considering it's all at once.

nice job - nothing game-changing in this run, it's merely half a second better than mine in every other room.

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2009-05-20 11:57:42 am

2009-05-20 09:58:55 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Quote from spidey's comments:

I hope to someday try to improve both this and my 28:42 single segment with a Kraid first route or perhaps even Dragonfangs' Ridley first TAS route, although that won't be for quite some time (if ever).

I hope so, but considering the incredible luck, sounds like you're gonna be really hardpressed to do it. BRB, checking out the run.

EDIT: Incredible. It's like you optimized almost every room in the game. You shaved seconds off the "route" like every couple minutes by jumping off the corners instead of climbing onto them, and climbing up the platforms put in place instead avoiding them by climbing the sides of the rooms. If you're looking for minor time saving tips like that for a future run, I did notice some things you missed (the first three combining to save probably less than a second >_<):

1) In the larva room, you fell to the bottom of the pitblock pit before laying a bomb instead of bombing the corner of it.
2) In the suitless sequence, you ignored the same shoot-out blocks that Dragonfangs missed in his TAS once (the one you enter from the left, and exit directly above the entrance).
3) At the start of the final escape sequence, you unmorph in that tunnel and jump up to climb into the vent. You can just spring-ball in.
4) Considering the speed you can apparently fire, I'm surprised you don't get the Etank behind Ridley and barrage him from inside his sprite before he takes off. Even if you start to take too much damage, you can just get knocked in front of him and go back to shooting his fireballs and finish him off like 10 seconds quicker than you did.

I can only barely see this scratching past 27. If you split the last segment right before the chozo test, you might be able to get like 27:30, but I guess there's really no point because you plan to try different things for the previous segments next time. Kraid first might really mess you up in the last half of the run because you shouldn't get Hello-Jump, so good luck there. If you do go Ridley first, that third Super tank should let you go through the Zebetites and Mother Brain and not have to refill, plus you don't have to grab the tank in Chozodia. You probably figured that much already, though. It also greatly diminishes the amount of luck relied on for Metroid refills.

See you next speedrun.

[quote="spidey's comments"]I hope to someday try to improve both this and my 28:42 single segment with a Kraid first route or perhaps even Dragonfangs' Ridley first TAS route, although that won't be for quite some time (if ever).[/quote]
I hope so, but considering the incredible luck, sounds like you're gonna be really hardpressed to do it. BRB, checking out the run.

EDIT: Incredible. It's like you optimized almost every room in the game. You shaved seconds off the "route" like every couple minutes by jumping off the corners instead of climbing onto them, and climbing up the platforms put in place instead avoiding them by climbing the sides of the rooms. If you're looking for minor time saving tips like that for a future run, I did notice some things you missed (the first three combining to save probably less than a second >_<):

1) In the larva room, you fell to the bottom of the pitblock pit before laying a bomb instead of bombing the corner of it.
2) In the suitless sequence, you ignored the same shoot-out blocks that Dragonfangs missed in his TAS once (the one you enter from the left, and exit directly above the entrance).
3) At the start of the final escape sequence, you unmorph in that tunnel and jump up to climb into the vent. You can just spring-ball in.
4) Considering the speed you can apparently fire, I'm surprised you don't get the Etank behind Ridley and barrage him from inside his sprite before he takes off. Even if you start to take too much damage, you can just get knocked in front of him and go back to shooting his fireballs and finish him off like 10 seconds quicker than you did.

I can only barely see this scratching past 27. If you split the last segment right before the chozo test, you might be able to get like 27:30, but I guess there's really no point because you plan to try different things for the previous segments next time. Kraid first might really mess you up in the last half of the run because you shouldn't get Hello-Jump, so good luck there. If you do go Ridley first, that third Super tank should let you go through the Zebetites and Mother Brain and not have to refill, plus you don't have to grab the tank in Chozodia. You probably figured that much already, though. It also greatly diminishes the amount of luck relied on for Metroid refills.

See you next speedrun.

Tyjet66

2009-05-20 11:52:32 am

What'd you say?

Quote from transience:

i always got annoyed at running out of missiles for spore spawn

Aren't you thinking of Super Metroid? Not Zero Mission.

BioSpark

2009-05-20 06:11:43 pm

pretty sure he's talking about the thing before the ridley elevator.

transience

2009-05-20 08:33:25 pm

twenty eight fifty

yup, though i could be wrong. i found myself saying several times "why did he go that way?", only to find out a second later that it's the way i went. i don't exactly know this game anymore.

JaggerG

2009-05-21 06:37:40 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Then it's a good time to start again, using a completely different route! :^P

transience

2009-05-21 06:54:07 pm

twenty eight fifty

i'd rather pull out my eyes and eat my own vomit than run this game again.

spidey-widey

2009-05-22 09:21:20 pm

Thanks for the comments, it's good to see that this game still has a small following.

Quote from transience:

you get a super missile drop on ridley that made me gawk due to an old route i used to take that is technically superior but incredibly difficult and luck-based.

Would that route involve getting just one super missile before Ridley and then backtracking to get the other after defeating Ridley? Anyway, that super missile drop was quite lucky (and quite fortunate seeing as how I only got one more for defeating Ridley).

Quote from transience:

shut the fuck up with those super missile drops in tourian. my tourian took longer than my other four segments combined.

Lol yes, I never would have expected to get that lucky on the metroids. I had originally intended to do the run in 4 segments. I feel sorry for you and your horrible Tourian luck. I seem to recall your 28:50 taking 6 days to do, so your Tourian must have taken at least 3-4 days or so? Yeah, my segment 2 only took a few hours.

Quote from transience:

nice job - nothing game-changing in this run, it's merely half a second better than mine in every other room.

Exactly, and that's one reason I want to try a different route in the future.

Quote from JaggerG:

1) In the larva room, you fell to the bottom of the pitblock pit before laying a bomb instead of bombing the corner of it.

I guess I knew about this but just didn't think to do it at the time.

Quote from JaggerG:

2) In the suitless sequence, you ignored the same shoot-out blocks that Dragonfangs missed in his TAS once (the one you enter from the left, and exit directly above the entrance).

Looks like a very minor time saver to me (assuming I'm thinking of the right place) but a time saver nonetheless. I'll see if I can implement this into future runs.

Quote from JaggerG:

3) At the start of the final escape sequence, you unmorph in that tunnel and jump up to climb into the vent. You can just spring-ball in.

Wow, I've always done it by unmorphing and climbing and never even thought to just spring-ball. I'll definitely be using this from now on (unless I'm doing Kraid first).

Quote from JaggerG:

4) Considering the speed you can apparently fire, I'm surprised you don't get the Etank behind Ridley and barrage him from inside his sprite before he takes off. Even if you start to take too much damage, you can just get knocked in front of him and go back to shooting his fireballs and finish him off like 10 seconds quicker than you did.

My firing speed isn't all that fast, is it? It looks to me like I shoot pretty slowly on the black pirates. Anyway, I'm unsure about this one; I should try it again, but when working on my single segment, I timed this to be almost exactly as fast as killing Ridley without running into him (plus or minus a second).

Quote from transience:

i'd rather pull out my eyes and eat my own vomit than run this game again.

I'm sorry to hear it. :(

Quote from JaggerG:

I can only barely see this scratching past 27. If you split the last segment right before the chozo test, you might be able to get like 27:30, but I guess there's really no point because you plan to try different things for the previous segments next time.

I don't think I could reach 27:30 with an 11-12 second Chozodia save; even if Mecha Ridley cooperated and everything else went perfectly, I don't see that 16:14 save before the Mother Brain reaching a time lower than about 27:25. I could be wrong though, and if I am, then sub 27 is definitely a possiblity.

Quote from JaggerG:

If you do go Ridley first, that third Super tank should let you go through the Zebetites and Mother Brain and not have to refill, plus you don't have to grab the tank in Chozodia. You probably figured that much already, though. It also greatly diminishes the amount of luck relied on for Metroid refills.

Although that last part becomes completely unnecessary if you happen to have incredible metroid luck (which I don't expect to happen again).

Thanks for the comments, it's good to see that this game still has a small following.

[quote="transience"]you get a super missile drop on ridley that made me gawk due to an old route i used to take that is technically superior but incredibly difficult and luck-based.[/quote]

Would that route involve getting just one super missile before Ridley and then backtracking to get the other after defeating Ridley?  Anyway, that super missile drop was quite lucky (and quite fortunate seeing as how I only got one more for defeating Ridley).

[quote="transience"]shut the fuck up with those super missile drops in tourian. my tourian took longer than my other four segments combined.[/quote]

Lol yes, I never would have expected to get that lucky on the metroids.  I had originally intended to do the run in 4 segments.  I feel sorry for you and your horrible Tourian luck.  I seem to recall your 28:50 taking 6 days to do, so your Tourian must have taken at least 3-4 days or so?  Yeah, my segment 2 only took a few hours.

[quote="transience"]nice job - nothing game-changing in this run, it's merely half a second better than mine in every other room.[/quote]

Exactly, and that's one reason I want to try a different route in the future.

[quote="JaggerG"]1) In the larva room, you fell to the bottom of the pitblock pit before laying a bomb instead of bombing the corner of it.[/quote]

I guess I knew about this but just didn't think to do it at the time.

[quote="JaggerG"]2) In the suitless sequence, you ignored the same shoot-out blocks that Dragonfangs missed in his TAS once (the one you enter from the left, and exit directly above the entrance).[/quote]

Looks like a very minor time saver to me (assuming I'm thinking of the right place) but a time saver nonetheless.  I'll see if I can implement this into future runs.

[quote="JaggerG"]3) At the start of the final escape sequence, you unmorph in that tunnel and jump up to climb into the vent. You can just spring-ball in.[/quote]

Wow, I've always done it by unmorphing and climbing and never even thought to just spring-ball.  I'll definitely be using this from now on (unless I'm doing Kraid first).

[quote="JaggerG"]4) Considering the speed you can apparently fire, I'm surprised you don't get the Etank behind Ridley and barrage him from inside his sprite before he takes off. Even if you start to take too much damage, you can just get knocked in front of him and go back to shooting his fireballs and finish him off like 10 seconds quicker than you did.[/quote]

My firing speed isn't all that fast, is it?  It looks to me like I shoot pretty slowly on the black pirates.  Anyway, I'm unsure about this one; I should try it again, but when working on my single segment, I timed this to be almost exactly as fast as killing Ridley without running into him (plus or minus a second).

[quote="transience"]i'd rather pull out my eyes and eat my own vomit than run this game again.[/quote]

I'm sorry to hear it.  :(

[quote="JaggerG"]I can only barely see this scratching past 27. If you split the last segment right before the chozo test, you might be able to get like 27:30, but I guess there's really no point because you plan to try different things for the previous segments next time.[/quote]

I don't think I could reach 27:30 with an 11-12 second Chozodia save; even if Mecha Ridley cooperated and everything else went perfectly, I don't see that 16:14 save before the Mother Brain reaching a time lower than about 27:25.  I could be wrong though, and if I am, then sub 27 is definitely a possiblity.

[quote="JaggerG"]If you do go Ridley first, that third Super tank should let you go through the Zebetites and Mother Brain and not have to refill, plus you don't have to grab the tank in Chozodia. You probably figured that much already, though. It also greatly diminishes the amount of luck relied on for Metroid refills.[/quote]

Although that last part becomes completely unnecessary if you happen to have incredible metroid luck (which I don't expect to happen again).

JaggerG

2009-05-23 05:26:35 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

The Metroids are bound to be faster. You can't exactly predict super drops, so you should basically have no more than four out of six super missiles throughout most of Tourian, preferably aiming to empty your supply until the last room. That last room has a ton of metroids (something like 8, isn't it?) 3 drops from 8 metroids shouldn't be all that unlikely. I don't think it's that tough to manage your supers just right there to be full once you're done. The hardest part might be getting a rinka to shoot at you at the right angle so that you can freeze it on the bottom level as you fight those last metroids.

transience

2009-08-06 11:26:25 pm

twenty eight fifty

well here's a three months late reply

Quote:

Would that route involve getting just one super missile before Ridley and then backtracking to get the other after defeating Ridley? Anyway, that super missile drop was quite lucky (and quite fortunate seeing as how I only got one more for defeating Ridley).

yep, it involved climbing the 'crumble room' (not easy), getting the second super and going all the way to tourian. the real bitch here is the luck involved - you basically want to have your first save be after ridley with a super missile, and you need a super missile to drop during the fight or else you'll be losing time. saving before the fight is also a possibility but you'll be fighting ridley repeatedly and resetting to control for luck. it's more of a tas thing than something applicable in real life.

if you want an easy WR grab, do a hard any% run with kraid first. i was getting within 90 seconds of it and i was activating the ziplines since i can't hbj. if memory serves, aj slacked off towards the end of the run so it's not as good a time as it should be.

well here's a three months late reply

[quote author=spidey-widey]

Would that route involve getting just one super missile before Ridley and then backtracking to get the other after defeating Ridley?  Anyway, that super missile drop was quite lucky (and quite fortunate seeing as how I only got one more for defeating Ridley).[/quote]

yep, it involved climbing the 'crumble room' (not easy), getting the second super and going all the way to tourian. the real bitch here is the luck involved - you basically want to have your first save be after ridley with a super missile, and you need a super missile to drop during the fight or else you'll be losing time. saving before the fight is also a possibility but you'll be fighting ridley repeatedly and resetting to control for luck. it's more of a tas thing than something applicable in real life.

if you want an easy WR grab, do a hard any% run with kraid first. i was getting within 90 seconds of it and i was activating the ziplines since i can't hbj. if memory serves, aj slacked off towards the end of the run so it's not as good a time as it should be.

JaggerG

2009-08-12 05:05:39 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Yeah dude I can't even see that as saving all that much time. Super drops are pretty rare, so you're losing a couple seconds against Ridley already. It also makes me curious about the amount of time it takes to go through the hoppers and bees room as opposed to the hall of etank and flatland. I guess they're about the same, so all you're saving is the time you normally take to backtrack for the super before ridley. I'm guessing in the end it may save like 5 seconds but is still really tough. :^/

Kraid First is still probably my favorite part about the entire game. I'm considering doing that run but I'm not going to for a long time.

Chanoire

2009-08-16 06:10:40 pm

The SDA page dates this run as 2009-01-15 but this thread is from May...? Did it really take four months to verify?

BioSpark

2009-08-16 06:28:15 pm

iirc he planned on improving it but never did.

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-02-15 03:31:53 pm

2010-02-15 03:29:56 pm

Sorry for the bump, but it's worth bumping. Just got done watching the 28:42 SS and 27:40. I'm actually gonna try this route and see if I can get under 35mins. The acid worm skip looks like the hardest part, but I won't know for sure until I try it. The shinespark during the tourian escape is something I have never tried, and the mother ship escape shinespark is something I have only done once. Still, if I'm going for just :35, then I might just say screw both of those tricks.

I've only enjoyed seeing how well I could do at 100% runs, but that's getting old. Especially since my 100% time sucks because I totally blow at the best route (kraid before hijump or power grip) which requires enough HBJ-ing to piss me off. I also get pissed off getting that etank by varia. These any% routes don't involve any of that stuff, so I'm gonna give it a go.

spidey-widey

2010-02-16 09:43:35 pm

The Tourian escape shinespark hardly saves any time at all, perhaps a second or so at the most if you're able to just jump quickly up the platforms. I would still encourage you to try this spark, though, since it's both easy and convenient.

I believe the mother ship escape shinespark saves right around 20 seconds. (I don't know exactly, though I've been able to get about 3:25 as opposed to 3:45 with the spark.) It's a nice time saver but not absolutely necessary if you're just aiming for a :35.

Indeed, even the acid worm skip wouldn't be necessary, though I strongly suggest you do it. (I think it saves a couple minutes; I've never tested this, though, so for all I know it could make as little as 1:30 difference or as much as 3:00.)

In any case, I wish you the best of luck. Given your 100% time and the route you take, I'm positive that you can get :35 or below.

JaggerG

2010-02-24 08:08:37 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

You gonna skip long beam, too? The bug room is ridiculously annoying to optimize, I sometimes lose as much as 30 seconds there from not killing the hives quickly enough. :^( The Kraid escape spark can be really troublesome, too, if you for some reason miss the block at the end of the spark like I sometimes do. I'm guessing missing the bomb jump after grip loses like 10 seconds. I think the biggest time losses, though, are the combined lack of optimization of pretty much every room, though. Climbing tall shafts, blazing through enemies, refilling ammo, missing shots against bosses, not morphing fast enough, those are all seconds that are lost pretty much every other room, and can add up to minutes in the end. I think even if you struggle to do the mother ship escape spark, it can still make up for a lot of those.

spidey, maybe I'm just out of it from not speedrunning lately, but are you sure it only saves 20 seconds? I seem to recall the climb to the top of the room, shooting the drone across the room, then zig-zagging to the bottom and back up to the door, then dodging the black pirates in the next room, taking quite a long time. Did you perhaps mess up the initial spark, or crouch on every slope in the middle room or something? Playing it back in my head, I can see it taking about 30 seconds longer, but I have a terrible sense of time and a really crappy memory, so I could be mistaken.

You gonna skip long beam, too? The bug room is ridiculously annoying to optimize, I sometimes lose as much as 30 seconds there from not killing the hives quickly enough. :^( The Kraid escape spark can be really troublesome, too, if you for some reason miss the block at the end of the spark like I sometimes do. I'm guessing missing the bomb jump after grip loses like 10 seconds. I think the biggest time losses, though, are the combined lack of optimization of pretty much every room, though. Climbing tall shafts, blazing through enemies, refilling ammo, missing shots against bosses, not morphing fast enough, those are all seconds that are lost pretty much every other room, and can add up to minutes in the end. I think even if you struggle to do the mother ship escape spark, it can still make up for a lot of those.

spidey, maybe I'm just out of it from not speedrunning lately, but are you sure it only saves 20 seconds? I seem to recall the climb to the top of the room, shooting the drone across the room, then zig-zagging to the bottom and back up to the door, then dodging the black pirates in the next room, taking quite a long time. Did you perhaps mess up the initial spark, or crouch on every slope in the middle room or something? Playing it back in my head, I can see it taking about 30 seconds longer, but I have a terrible sense of time and a really crappy memory, so I could be mistaken.