natural speed run on zm

2006-11-06 10:22:59 pm

Derp

i am doing a natural speed run on zm this means no sequence breaks no early items no skipping items(except for power bombs) or anything like that. even though i know this is really bad and that there is a lot of room for improvement i am saved right before the ridley fight at 1:24. I am going to try again and any advice would be helpfull.

Thread title:

BioSpark

2006-11-06 10:30:13 pm

First of all, I dont really think there's a natural route because the low% routes were somewhat intended. Second of all, does that mean 1 hour and 24 minutes?

spidey-widey

2006-11-06 11:14:37 pm

No, he's saved before Mecha Ridley at one minute and twenty four seconds.

>_>
<_<

Well, if I did a natural route run with no sequence breaks and no skipping items, I might be able to get sub 30 minutes still, because the only "true" sequence break in this game that I know of is the acid worm skip. All others "sequence breaks" and skippable items were pretty obviously intended.

nate

2006-11-06 11:47:41 pm

this is said to be unintended (probably because it has a distinctly glitchy flavor).

spidey-widey

2006-11-06 11:53:46 pm

Ah, I would agree with that. Although, I have a feeling that in any%, most people won't grab the long beam. (I know graveworm did, but he never proved anything, and all the wr runs don't grab it.)

MASTER-88

2006-11-07 05:04:40 pm

Speedrunner

I think this interesting speedrun game with natural route.

But my opinion it is borning if you not can du any speedtricks for example bomb jump on power grip pit or single wall jump.

Hard say what are real rules if you speedrun natural route run. What rules Zoid use his 1.30 natural route run on Prime? I think his use speedtricks.

My opinion better idea is: You can use all speedtrick for example single wall jump and bomb jump on power grip pit, but you not can use any shortcuts and not get any early items.

spidey-widey

2006-11-07 06:49:23 pm

Well, according to what M.troid#12 said, you can use the bomb jump in the power grip pit, and the wall jump, and other stuff.

MASTER-88

2006-11-08 03:55:41 am

Speedrunner

Quote from spidey-widey:

Well, according to what M.troid#12 said, you can use the bomb jump in the power grip pit, and the wall jump, and other stuff.

Just that interesting. This mean i´ve must be complete Hornet battle and get SM expansion his room. After long beam i´ve must be get out here with natural route.

I think i can very easily get sub hour run. I not know is it much faster or slower than 100% Sbreak run. But i want try that someday.

Last time i beat game with Natural route over 2 years ago.

EDIT:
NAtural route time: 0.44.37

This run was suck ass. Embarassed

Sub 40 is very easily possible. I choose wrong way couple times, i use lot save, because this route was very weird for me. My run includes full amonut little mistakes and quite much big mistakes. Took only two hours beat that run.

I not use any shortcuts, but i uses speedtrick. My biggest mess up was Hornet battle. I not have enought missile against him. Just i forget missile recharge in Norfair.

1: i uses bomb jump on power grip pit
2 i uses last shine spark shortcuts on Chozodia escape
3 i uses bomb jump in one room on Norfair, i not know is it wrong use that trick on natural route.

1 i not use any suitless samus shortcuts.
2 i uses natuaral route, i not get any early item + i use all Chozdo map statues.

This run was pure joke. I can get sub 40 very easily. I think 37 is easily possible with natural route.

I think i try good run next time, maybe single segment, but before that i want know real rules!

Maybe my rules was little bit wrong, because this bomb jump on Norfair room i not know is it wrong use that. Is it wrong use suitless samus shortcuts? I not uses suitless samus shortcuts, because i thin it is wrong. Is it wrong use right side route in Ridley lair? I use left side route, but right side route are faster, but is it wrong use that?

[quote="spidey-widey"]Well, according to what M.troid#12 said, you can use the bomb jump in the power grip pit, and the wall jump, and other stuff.[/quote]

Just that interesting. This mean i´ve must be complete Hornet battle and get SM expansion his room. After long beam i´ve must be get out here with natural route.

I think i can very easily get sub hour run. I not know is it much faster or slower than 100% Sbreak run. But i want try that someday.

Last time i beat game with Natural route over 2 years ago.

EDIT: 
NAtural route time: 0.44.37

This run was suck ass. :oops:  Sub 40 is very easily possible. I choose wrong way couple times, i use lot save, because this route was very weird for me. My run includes full amonut little mistakes and quite much big mistakes.  Took only two hours beat that run.

I not use any shortcuts, but i uses speedtrick. My biggest mess up was Hornet battle. I not have enought missile against him. Just i forget missile recharge in Norfair.

1: i uses bomb jump on power grip pit
2 i uses last shine spark shortcuts on Chozodia escape
3 i uses bomb jump in one room on Norfair, i not know is it wrong use that trick on natural route.

1 i not use any suitless samus shortcuts.
2 i uses natuaral route, i not get any early item + i use all Chozdo map statues.

This run was pure joke. I can get sub 40 very easily. I think 37 is easily possible with natural route.

I think i try good run next time, maybe single segment, but before that i want know real rules!

Maybe my rules was little bit wrong, because this bomb jump on Norfair room i not know is it wrong use that. Is it wrong use suitless samus shortcuts? I not uses suitless samus shortcuts, because i thin it is wrong. Is it wrong use right side route in Ridley lair? I use left side route, but right side route are faster, but is it wrong use that?

spidey-widey

2006-11-08 06:35:47 pm

I really don't know. It seems to me using the right side of Ridley would be okay, as you're not really skipping anything (except perhaps the Ridley map data). I also wonder what is defined as skipping an item, if just not getting an item counts as skipping. (For example, the wave beam.)

I once thought of doing a run like this, and was expecting somewhere around 38...but who knows, maybe someone can get a 35 natural route.

MASTER-88

2006-11-08 06:54:38 pm

Speedrunner

35 no way. There are too much difference than any-% SBreak run. It is true you can complete faster Chozodia suit part and escape. I think you can still get 37-38 minutes run. How knows you are crazy enought.

It is very hard define natural route rules. I not any sure how much i can use speedtrick and shortcuts. What are real rules. My run is still pretty natural, i not skip anything, maybe use too much speedtricks. I not skip any natural items. I get all items with natural way.

How much Zoid use shortcuts his MPRIME natural route run?
His must be use lot speedtricks.

BioSpark

2006-11-08 07:05:44 pm

I'm curious as to what you guys consider sequence breaks in this game.

spidey-widey

2006-11-08 07:54:24 pm

I consider the acid worm skip and maybe the after long beam shortcut sequence breaks. All else, I do not consider sequence breaks.

M.troid

2006-11-08 09:20:16 pm

Derp

three things 1. what i mean by natural speed run is no sequence break even if they were intended 2. i can't bomb jump and 3. i'm not that good at wall jumping either srry.

spidey-widey

2006-11-08 11:12:10 pm

Just because you can't bomb or wall jump doesn't mean we shouldn't do those in natural route, at least IMO. Those are not sequence breaks, and they are intended (at least, I'm almost positive the IBJ was intended).

To understand exactly what the rules are, I would still have to see a vid or else someone would have to explain the run to me, room by room (and I don't think anyone wants to do that).

M.troid

2006-11-09 10:58:51 pm

Derp

oh i thought it was advice srry

spidey-widey

2006-11-09 11:34:26 pm

Well, they were a few rules for this natural route, but I think it would still have to be explained in great detail, or else someone makes a vid. On this game, it's hard to define "natural route speedrun", and there are many questions about what is allowed, what isn't, what is and isn't a sequence break, what you have to get, etc.

transience

2006-11-20 03:32:43 pm

twenty eight fifty

i did an intended route single-segment once and got 44:xx or something. i went the wrong way a couple of times just because i didn't know where i was going.

MASTER-88

2006-11-20 03:45:57 pm

Speedrunner

Quote from transience:

i did an intended route single-segment once and got 44:xx or something. i went the wrong way a couple of times just because i didn't know where i was going.

Same time as me. I have same trouble i choose wrong way couple times and i have much trouble here (read my comments). I know there are way get sub 40 minutes run very easily. Just i have trouble define how many speedtrick i can use and how many shortcuts i can use. I not know how much you use shortcuts and how you define your natural route.

But still congrats. Wink

spidey-widey

2006-11-20 06:49:08 pm

I shall try for 38:XX when I do this run. But I don't plan on doing it as a SS. I'd lose many minutes.

mikechenkeha

(user is banned)

2007-12-10 08:25:47 pm

no sequence breaking? ... might be possible? but they don't have like an hint system like prime, where it pop up and tells you "active trasport found,press Z button", and we won't really know unless we follow that map that pop up once an while

JaggerG

2007-12-10 11:54:01 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

...So you're basically saying it might be possible to beat ZM using no sequence breaks, and that it may be hard to define "natural route" if you don't look at the map checkpoints given by the chozo statues? Next you're gonna try to tell us that it's possible that you might need to collect the ice beam. Rolling Eyes

But in all seriousness, did you really not realize this topic is over a year old? That's quite a bump, and a pointless one at that. Try to be more careful, please.

Shoopman

2008-01-02 11:39:32 am

Shoopmaster

you beat my natural time by 2 mins! Well I did skip the super missiles and wave beam. It was more experimental.

TJF588

2008-01-15 09:32:31 am

once GameFAQs, now Twitch

For once, I think I have a constructive post!

What if the order of doing stuff (at least 'til Tourian) is defined by the map-based Chozo statues? That first one tells you to go get wave beam, so you go get wave beam. Follow suit for the other statues. I'd be inclined to say "make sure to see the cutscenes in order", but 1) I'm not sure if the Mother-Brain-sees-Samus scene necessarily comes before the Ridley-in-space scene, and 2) the only scene-eliminating route would involve entering Ridley early, which is a SB, and thus bunk.

Zelikman

2008-03-17 12:56:45 am

Memorizer of Maps

I think the Nintendo Power Player's Guide is a good start to defining the "correct sequence" for the game, but even the Player's Guide points out areas where you can grab some Tanks early - and it also has a speed guide for sub-2 hours 50%-ish items and a 15% guide as well, both of which break with traditional paths (such as fighting Kraid, then Ridley, as the statues blocking Tourian's gate indicate should happen).

TJF has the right idea, I believe, but I'm certain that the cut-scenes occur only when you ride the elevator down into the area - meaning you'll likely see Kraid's cutscene before Mother Brain (unless you absolutely must have the Power Grip and UK1 early).

Things get more confusing in 100% runs, because once you obtain the Fully Powered Suit, Zebes is your playground. (Side-note: I wonder what the fastest route is from FPS to MechaRid collecting all remaining power-ups?)

transience

2008-03-17 06:40:22 pm

twenty eight fifty

"natural route" is pretty obvious - go in order of the statues. long beam, missiles, bombs, power grip, ice beam, speed booster, wave beam, super missiles, ridley unknown item, screw attack, tourian, power bombs.. something like that.