MZM Timeline Status Discussion

2006-03-24 09:16:16 pm

I am not sure if this forum can display all of the presentation's data accurately. So please click the link below to see the presentation in its entirety.

*56 K Warning*

http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=515808&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1

After viewing, please discuss the topic here. I will be happy to answer any and all questions anyone may have. Enjoy reading. I think this information can be very enlightening.

Thread title:

Random Zelda Person

2006-03-24 09:23:50 pm

Oddly enough there has already been a topic on that here…

Dai Grepher

2006-03-24 09:29:32 pm

WOW! I did not know that someone here found my presentation interesting enough to post it in this forum. It seems that the topic was locked though, perhaps because there was only one view on the subject. Now that I am here, I can answer any questions people may have regarding the presentation or the timeline.

Thank you for bringing that to my attention.

Dr. Trence

2006-03-24 09:57:51 pm

and it seems that some guys were pwn'n you for 8 pages straight in that link....odd

13M13

2006-03-24 10:09:49 pm

l'appel du vide

Quote from Dai:

I did not know that someone here found my presentation interesting enough to post it in this forum. It seems that the topic was locked though, perhaps because there was only one view on the subject. Now that I am here, I can answer any questions people may have regarding the presentation or the timeline.

Maybe you should read that thread a liiittle more closely...

Dai Grepher

2006-03-24 10:21:11 pm

Actually, there were many people in the G4 thread who agreed with me, or said they had known that it was a prequel ever since they played it. Those that argued against me were proptly disproved by the facts. Many of those who disagreed simply did not understand what I was telling them or what the facts were.

Chanoire

2006-03-24 10:45:36 pm

Quote from Dai Grepher:

WOW! I did not know that someone here found my presentation interesting enough to post it in this forum.

If your working assumption was it had already been judged to be of insufficient interest to post, wouldn't that suggest that there's no reason to post it?

primetime

2006-03-24 11:02:57 pm

You obviously haven't realized yet that nobody cares and that almost nobody's on your side. It's "common sense" (which you seem to be lacking) that nobody cares. Even if what you're saying really is true, it doesn't even matter because NOBODY CARES.

Dr. Trence

2006-03-24 11:09:27 pm

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Actually, there were many people in the G4 thread who agreed with me, or said they had known that it was a prequel ever since they played it. Those that argued against me were proptly disproved by the facts. Many of those who disagreed simply did not understand what I was telling them or what the facts were.

after reading the whole thing for 30 minutes, i didnt see anyone who agreed with you. and it seems that ALOT of people know who you are on this forum AND the g4 one...at least according to the link that RZP gave you.

i really dont know the answer, nor do i care. I dont act like some nOOB who would argue over something that really doesnt have any value or purpose. what counts is that the game even exists. it doesnt count if it is a "prequel" or "sequel", im just glad that it even exists. but your theroy and description is very well thought out.

MetalRidley

2006-03-24 11:12:57 pm

Hey, hey, it doesn't hurt to talk about it.
It's obvious you put a lot of thought and effort into that argument, and I respect that. At the same time, I think you may have overanalyzed it a bit.

Nintendo has never been one to sacrifice gameplay for story continuity (see: Zelda). I think that Tourian (the focus of your argument) was redesigned inconsistently simply for aesthetic and gameplay reasons.

To that end: Mother Brain is made bigger so she looks scarier. Only one part of her (the eye) is vulnerable now, for a more challenging fight. Players now can't fight her from the Zebetite platform, so the one next to her was removed and a pair of lower platforms were put there instead. See how one simple change makes eveything different?

I think this way of looking at things (trace the changes back to their origin) shows that all the changes were made for a more impressive game. So, now there are Super Missiles, and more/bigger bosses. Some of the areas don't match up. That doesn't change the fact that the same areas are present with similar layouts (up to MB, anyway), and the same types of enemies. Shouldn't a prequel have entirely new areas?

Using your logic, this shouldn't even be a question. Look at Kraid! He's, like, quintuple your size now! Obviously not a remake!

Hey, hey, it doesn't hurt to talk about it.
It's obvious you put a lot of thought and effort into that argument, and I respect that. At the same time, I think you may have overanalyzed it a bit.
 
Nintendo has never been one to sacrifice gameplay for story continuity (see: Zelda). I think that Tourian (the focus of your argument) was redesigned inconsistently simply for aesthetic and gameplay reasons.

To that end: Mother Brain is made bigger so she looks scarier. Only one part of her (the eye) is vulnerable now, for a more challenging fight. Players now can't fight her from the Zebetite platform, so the one next to her was removed and a pair of lower platforms were put there instead. See how one simple change makes eveything different?

I think this way of looking at things (trace the changes back to their origin) shows that all the changes were made for a more impressive game. So, now there are Super Missiles, and more/bigger bosses. Some of the areas don't match up. That doesn't change the fact that the same areas are present with similar layouts (up to MB, anyway), and the same types of enemies. Shouldn't a prequel have entirely new areas?

Using your logic, this shouldn't even be a question. Look at Kraid! He's, like, quintuple your size now! [u]Obviously[/u] not a remake!

A Silly Goose

2006-03-24 11:56:18 pm

Look, witty text!

I like to try to reason with people, but I also understand that there are many people who become so attached to a specific belief that they immediately toss aside any kind of reason or sense that may say otherwise, and they do so without realizing it. For some, it's that their dog is being tortured by government mind control experiments, others believe the vapor trails left behind jet aircraft are toxins being deliberately dumped upon an unsuspecting populace, and still others believe that Metroid Prime is an X Virus.

If there is anything the Internet has taught me, it is that there is no point in trying to debate with such people. I have also learned that two of the primary identifying signs in those individuals are tendencies toward over-analyzation, and literal interpretation of available information.

Having said all of that, I would now like to say that Dai Grepher amuses me with his reasoning, which resembles a malfunctioned Rube Goldberg invention.

I understand that I have been rather harsh with this post, but I believe it necessary, and only intend well by it; I suppose I have borne witness to one too many "Special Olympic" debates on the Internet.

I like to try to reason with people, but I also understand that there are many people who become so attached to a specific belief that they immediately toss aside any kind of reason or sense that may say otherwise, and they do so without realizing it.  For some, it's that their dog is being tortured by government mind control experiments, others believe the vapor trails left behind jet aircraft are toxins being deliberately dumped upon an unsuspecting populace, and still others believe that Metroid Prime is an X Virus.

If there is anything the Internet has taught me, it is that there is no point in trying to debate with such people.  I have also learned that two of the primary identifying signs in those individuals are tendencies toward over-analyzation, and literal interpretation of available information.

Having said all of that, I would now like to say that Dai Grepher amuses me with his reasoning, which resembles a malfunctioned [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rube_Goldberg]Rube Goldberg[/url] invention.

I understand that I have been rather harsh with this post, but I believe it necessary, and only intend well by it; I suppose I have borne witness to one too many "Special Olympic" debates on the Internet.

13M13

2006-03-25 12:36:21 am

l'appel du vide

Haha, Rune Goldberg + Something Awful = Blue Balls

Dai Grepher

2006-03-25 01:15:02 am

Quote:

Chanoire: If your working assumption was it had already been judged to be of insufficient interest to post, wouldn't that suggest that there's no reason to post it?

I had no assumption. I did not see the topic. I simply posted this one because I did not think this forum had seen it yet.
Also, after posting this topic and reading the topic I was given a link to, my assumption was that people were interested.

Quote:

primetime: You obviously haven't realized yet that nobody cares and that almost nobody's on your side. It's "common sense" (which you seem to be lacking) that nobody cares. Even if what you're saying really is true, it doesn't even matter because NOBODY CARES.

A lot of people care, which is why such a debate exists. I would also predict that about 50% of all Metroid fans believe it is a prequel.

Quote:

Dr. Trence: after reading the whole thing for 30 minutes, i didnt see anyone who agreed with you. and it seems that ALOT of people know who you are on this forum AND the g4 one...at least according to the link that RZP gave you.

The first page alone shows supporters. "Why do we need proof of this?" "I thought this was common knowledge."

Quote:

Dr. Trence: i really dont know the answer, nor do i care. I dont act like some nOOB who would argue over something that really doesnt have any value or purpose. what counts is that the game even exists. it doesnt count if it is a "prequel" or "sequel", im just glad that it even exists. but your theroy and description is very well thought out.

Thanks.

Quote:

MetalRidley: It's obvious you put a lot of thought and effort into that argument, and I respect that. At the same time, I think you may have overanalyzed it a bit.

Nintendo has never been one to sacrifice gameplay for story continuity (see: Zelda). I think that Tourian (the focus of your argument) was redesigned inconsistently simply for aesthetic and gameplay reasons.

Those who made Zelda are not the same as those who made Metroid. Sakamoto stated in an interview that consistency and storyline means a great deal to him. I do not think that they would just make Zero Mission contradict all previously established facts. Also, Tourian could have looked the way it did in Metroid and Super Metroid without losing any of that gameplay. They could have made the second platform in from of Mother Brain the fifth Zeebetite, and they could have made the room beneath Mother Brain damaged to reflect how it is supposed to look in Super Metroid. They did not. If they wanted to make a new design and gameplay, why not just make a new game? I think this is what they did. They made a new game, with new levels and a new storyline.

Quote:

MetalRidley: To that end: Mother Brain is made bigger so she looks scarier. Only one part of her (the eye) is vulnerable now, for a more challenging fight. Players now can't fight her from the Zebetite platform, so the one next to her was removed and a pair of lower platforms were put there instead. See how one simple change makes eveything different?

They could have just made that platform a Zeebetite, or they could have placed a Zeebetite column there after the explosion to make it look like the blast moved it there or something.

Quote:

MetalRidley: I think this way of looking at things (trace the changes back to their origin) shows that all the changes were made for a more impressive game. So, now there are Super Missiles, and more/bigger bosses. Some of the areas don't match up. That doesn't change the fact that the same areas are present with similar layouts (up to MB, anyway), and the same types of enemies. Shouldn't a prequel have entirely new areas?

Zero Mission had entirely new areas. Also, old areas that reappear do not even look the same. The main shaft to the right in Norfair is green, while in Metroid it is purple. Why change the color? This could indicate a different time period.

Quote:

MetalRidley: Using your logic, this shouldn't even be a question. Look at Kraid! He's, like, quintuple your size now! Obviously not a remake!

The difference in bosses is not something I regard as supporting evidence that it is a prequel, but the fact that there is no Fake Kraid is supporting evidence. The fact that the room outside of Kraid's room is plain while in Metroid it is detailed and looks like a lizard's head is supporting evidence. I just think that the game looks too different to be a remake, and it is also designed too differently as well.

Thank you for posting.

Quote:

A Silly Goose: I have also learned that two of the primary identifying signs in those individuals are tendencies toward over-analyzation, and literal interpretation of available information.

So we should not analyze things at all and should make inaccurate interpretations of information?

Quote:

A Silly Goose: Having said all of that, I would now like to say that Dai Grepher amuses me with his reasoning, which resembles a malfunctioned Rube Goldberg invention.

Why not try and disprove my evidence, or show where my reasoning is unsound?

[quote]Chanoire: If your working assumption was it had already been judged to be of insufficient interest to post, wouldn't that suggest that there's no reason to post it?[/quote]

I had no assumption. I did not see the topic. I simply posted this one because I did not think this forum had seen it yet.
Also, after posting this topic and reading the topic I was given a link to, my assumption was that people were interested.

[quote]primetime: You obviously haven't realized yet that nobody cares and that almost nobody's on your side. It's "common sense" (which you seem to be lacking) that nobody cares. Even if what you're saying really is true, it doesn't even matter because NOBODY CARES.[/quote]

A lot of people care, which is why such a debate exists. I would also predict that about 50% of all Metroid fans believe it is a prequel.

[quote]Dr. Trence: after reading the whole thing for 30 minutes, i didnt see anyone who agreed with you. and it seems that ALOT of people know who you are on this forum AND the g4 one...at least according to the link that RZP gave you.[/quote]

The first page alone shows supporters. "Why do we need proof of this?" "I thought this was common knowledge."

[quote]Dr. Trence: i really dont know the answer, nor do i care. I dont act like some nOOB who would argue over something that really doesnt have any value or purpose. what counts is that the game even exists. it doesnt count if it is a "prequel" or "sequel", im just glad that it even exists. but your theroy and description is very well thought out.[/quote]

Thanks.

[quote]MetalRidley: It's obvious you put a lot of thought and effort into that argument, and I respect that. At the same time, I think you may have overanalyzed it a bit.

Nintendo has never been one to sacrifice gameplay for story continuity (see: Zelda). I think that Tourian (the focus of your argument) was redesigned inconsistently simply for aesthetic and gameplay reasons.[/quote]

Those who made Zelda are not the same as those who made Metroid. Sakamoto stated in an interview that consistency and storyline means a great deal to him. I do not think that they would just make Zero Mission contradict all previously established facts. Also, Tourian could have looked the way it did in Metroid and Super Metroid without losing any of that gameplay. They could have made the second platform in from of Mother Brain the fifth Zeebetite, and they could have made the room beneath Mother Brain damaged to reflect how it is supposed to look in Super Metroid. They did not. If they wanted to make a new design and gameplay, why not just make a new game? I think this is what they did. They made a new game, with new levels and a new storyline.

[quote]MetalRidley: To that end: Mother Brain is made bigger so she looks scarier. Only one part of her (the eye) is vulnerable now, for a more challenging fight. Players now can't fight her from the Zebetite platform, so the one next to her was removed and a pair of lower platforms were put there instead. See how one simple change makes eveything different?[/quote]

They could have just made that platform a Zeebetite, or they could have placed a Zeebetite column there after the explosion to make it look like the blast moved it there or something.

[quote]MetalRidley: I think this way of looking at things (trace the changes back to their origin) shows that all the changes were made for a more impressive game. So, now there are Super Missiles, and more/bigger bosses. Some of the areas don't match up. That doesn't change the fact that the same areas are present with similar layouts (up to MB, anyway), and the same types of enemies. Shouldn't a prequel have entirely new areas?[/quote]

Zero Mission had entirely new areas. Also, old areas that reappear do not even look the same. The main shaft to the right in Norfair is green, while in Metroid it is purple. Why change the color? This could indicate a different time period.

[quote]MetalRidley: Using your logic, this shouldn't even be a question. Look at Kraid! He's, like, quintuple your size now! Obviously not a remake![/quote]

The difference in bosses is not something I regard as supporting evidence that it is a prequel, but the fact that there is no Fake Kraid is supporting evidence. The fact that the room outside of Kraid's room is plain while in Metroid it is detailed and looks like a lizard's head is supporting evidence. I just think that the game looks too different to be a remake, and it is also designed too differently as well.

Thank you for posting.

[quote]A Silly Goose: I have also learned that two of the primary identifying signs in those individuals are tendencies toward over-analyzation, and literal interpretation of available information.[/quote]

So we should not analyze things at all and should make inaccurate interpretations of information?

[quote]A Silly Goose: Having said all of that, I would now like to say that Dai Grepher amuses me with his reasoning, which resembles a malfunctioned Rube Goldberg invention.[/quote]

Why not try and disprove my evidence, or show where my reasoning is unsound?

13M13

2006-03-25 02:50:15 am

l'appel du vide

Quote from "[url=http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p1.html:

Yoshio Sakamoto[/url]"]We wanted to show people who had never played a Metroid game prior to Metroid Fusion, the roots of the Metroid franchise, that this is what Metroid is, this is the style of gameplay that Metroid sprang from...at the same time, retell the story of Samus' original mission.

[W]ith Zero Mission we had the game concept of getting back to the roots of Metroid, and at the same time reworking that game by implementing newer features.

Any time you do a remake there's always the possibility that it could be taken negatively as a mere port other than a truly remade game. One of our biggest challenge was to [color=orange]add enough elements to make the game feel like something that's new, while not straying far from the original Metroid[/color][.]

Hejira

2006-03-25 03:00:58 am

I liked my explanation the best, that the original game on the NES was the version of the story told by a bunch of Space Pirates that lacked imagination and information.

SABERinBLUE

2006-03-25 04:04:16 am

Cook of the Sea

Agreed, Hej.

P.JMan

2006-03-25 04:09:59 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

imo we took it alot better than scu
http://www.samusforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?t=9022

Laney

(user is banned)

2006-03-25 11:33:43 am

I cannot understand how a guy wastes his time in such a failure.

Why are you doing this?

Dr. Trence

2006-03-25 12:56:42 pm

trying to make a point and make a well, thought out description is not a failure. nintendo need people like him who can devote his time into researching metroid, and making such a theroy. just because not alot of people dont like him, that doesnt mean i dont. and you people are acting like nOObs for trying to make this guy get his feelings hurt. even tho his theroy might not be true, i still apreciate him making such a well thought out description.

Dai Grepher

2006-03-25 01:26:59 pm

Thank you Dr. Trence.

Quote from "[url=http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p1.html:

Yoshio Sakamoto[/url]"]We wanted to show people who had never played a Metroid game prior to Metroid Fusion, the roots of the Metroid franchise, that this is what Metroid is, this is the style of gameplay that Metroid sprang from...at the same time, retell the story of Samus' original mission.

[W]ith Zero Mission we had the game concept of getting back to the roots of Metroid, and at the same time reworking that game by implementing newer features.

Any time you do a remake there's always the possibility that it could be taken negatively as a mere port other than a truly remade game. One of our biggest challenge was to [color=orange]add enough elements to make the game feel like something that's new, while not straying far from the original Metroid[/color][.]

First, the original mission could be a reference to her first mission. The Japanese language is difficult to translate to English, and many times an interpreter must predict the meaning of a sentence as well as the words. Moreover, each word can translate into many different words in English. Like I said, original could mean first in this statement. However, even if this references Metroid, the NES Metroid was featured on the Zero Mission cart. So this could also be a case of Sakamoto referring to retelling Metroid through the use of the manual and port.

The second quote does not state that they reworked Metroid. He said that with Zero Mission they got back to the roots of Metroid, which is a reference to the series, not the game. They then reworked Zero Mission to offer newer features.

The third is a good example of where Sakamoto stated that the game is not a remake. The question asked what the challenges were in making Zero Mission. Sakamoto answered by stating the negative aspects of doing remakes, and then stated what they did to avoid those negative aspects.

Also realize that all throughout the interview Sakamoto stated that Zero Mission is only based on Metroid because it remakes gameplay. Gameplay is not the same as storyline or game plot. So this is where many people misunderstood Sakamoto's statements for indicating a remake of Metroid. Nothing could be further from the truth. He said that it is a new game and a new adventure that remakes Metroid's gameplay in order to return the series to the original style of gameplay that it sprang from.

Lastly, Sakamoto makes this comment:

"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory. We've taken this oppertunity to expand the backstory a little more."

This clearly indicates that the game does not remake any of the storyline, but rather expands upon the backstory. Well, a backstory expansion is also known as a prequel. So I think that this is just a case of many people misreading what Sakamoto actually said, and not reading one of his last comments of the interview, which clearly indicates that it is not a remake.

Thank you Dr. Trence.

[quote="[url=http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/488/488084p1.html]Yoshio Sakamoto[/url]"]We wanted to show people who had never played a Metroid game prior to Metroid Fusion, the roots of the Metroid franchise, that this is what Metroid is, this is the style of gameplay that Metroid sprang from...at the same time, [b][color=orange]retell the story of Samus' original mission[/color][/b].

[W]ith Zero Mission we had the game concept of getting back to the roots of Metroid, and at the same time [b][color=orange]reworking that game by implementing newer features[/color][/b].

Any time you do a [b][size=14px][color=orange]remake[/color][/size][/b] there's always the possibility that it could be taken negatively as a mere port other than a truly remade game. One of our biggest challenge was to [b][color=orange]add enough elements to make the game feel like something that's new, while not straying far from the original Metroid[/b][/color][.][/quote]

First, the original mission could be a reference to her first mission. The Japanese language is difficult to translate to English, and many times an interpreter must predict the meaning of a sentence as well as the words. Moreover, each word can translate into many different words in English. Like I said, original could mean first in this statement. However, even if this references Metroid, the NES Metroid was featured on the Zero Mission cart. So this could also be a case of Sakamoto referring to retelling Metroid through the use of the manual and port.

The second quote does not state that they reworked Metroid. He said that with Zero Mission they got back to the roots of Metroid, which is a reference to the series, not the game. They then reworked Zero Mission to offer newer features.

The third is a good example of where Sakamoto stated that the game is not a remake. The question asked what the challenges were in making Zero Mission. Sakamoto answered by stating the negative aspects of doing remakes, and then stated what they did to avoid those negative aspects.

Also realize that all throughout the interview Sakamoto stated that Zero Mission is only based on Metroid because it remakes gameplay. Gameplay is not the same as storyline or game plot. So this is where many people misunderstood Sakamoto's statements for indicating a remake of Metroid. Nothing could be further from the truth. He said that it is a new game and a new adventure that remakes Metroid's gameplay in order to return the series to the original style of gameplay that it sprang from.

Lastly, Sakamoto makes this comment:

"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory. We've taken this oppertunity to expand the backstory a little more."

This clearly indicates that the game does not remake any of the storyline, but rather expands upon the backstory. Well, a backstory expansion is also known as a prequel. So I think that this is just a case of many people misreading what Sakamoto actually said, and not reading one of his last comments of the interview, which clearly indicates that it is not a remake.

Dragonfangs

2006-03-25 01:55:25 pm

Quote from Dai Grepher:

First, the original mission could be a reference to her first mission. The Japanese language is difficult to translate to English, and many times an interpreter must predict the meaning of a sentence as well as the words. Moreover, each word can translate into many different words in English. Like I said, original could mean first in this statement. However, even if this references Metroid, the NES Metroid was featured on the Zero Mission cart. So this could also be a case of Sakamoto referring to retelling Metroid through the use of the manual and port.

You can't retell a story that's never been told before, so Sakamoto is obviously referring to the first Metroid game there. However, retelling Metroid through the manual and port is possible, but unlikely.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

The second quote does not state that they reworked Metroid. He said that with Zero Mission they got back to the roots of Metroid, which is a reference to the series, not the game. They then reworked Zero Mission to offer newer features.

"Rework" implies change to something already finished. To say you're reworking something that you're currently working on for the first time doesn't make sense.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

The third is a good example of where Sakamoto stated that the game is not a remake. The question asked what the challenges were in making Zero Mission. Sakamoto answered by stating the negative aspects of doing remakes, and then stated what they did to avoid those negative aspects.

Why would he even mention remakes if he does not consider ZM one? He is asked what was challenging when making ZM and mentions negative aspects of remakes, clearly implying ZM is a remake.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory. We've taken this oppertunity to expand the backstory a little more."

This clearly indicates that the game does not remake any of the storyline, but rather expands upon the backstory.

"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory" does NOT mean "It isn't a remaking of the backstory" and does not clearly indicate anything. My take on it is that he's reluctant to call it a remake because there's stuff added to it.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]First, the original mission could be a reference to her first mission. The Japanese language is difficult to translate to English, and many times an interpreter must predict the meaning of a sentence as well as the words. Moreover, each word can translate into many different words in English. Like I said, original could mean first in this statement. However, even if this references Metroid, the NES Metroid was featured on the Zero Mission cart. So this could also be a case of Sakamoto referring to retelling Metroid through the use of the manual and port.[/quote]

You can't retell a story that's never been told before, so Sakamoto is obviously referring to the first Metroid game there. However, retelling Metroid through the manual and port is possible, but unlikely.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]The second quote does not state that they reworked Metroid. He said that with Zero Mission they got back to the roots of Metroid, which is a reference to the series, not the game. They then reworked Zero Mission to offer newer features.[/quote]

"Rework" implies change to something already finished. To say you're reworking something that you're currently working on for the first time doesn't make sense.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]The third is a good example of where Sakamoto stated that the game is not a remake. The question asked what the challenges were in making Zero Mission. Sakamoto answered by stating the negative aspects of doing remakes, and then stated what they did to avoid those negative aspects.[/quote]

Why would he even mention remakes if he does not consider ZM one? He is asked what was challenging when making ZM and mentions negative aspects of remakes, clearly implying ZM is a remake.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory. We've taken this oppertunity to expand the backstory a little more."

This clearly indicates that the game does not remake any of the storyline, but rather expands upon the backstory.
[/quote]

"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory" does NOT mean "It isn't a remaking of the backstory" and does not clearly indicate anything. My take on it is that he's reluctant to call it a remake because there's stuff added to it.

SABERinBLUE

2006-03-25 03:28:34 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Dr. Trence:

trying to make a point and make a well, thought out description is not a failure.

Actually, an attempt is neither a success nor a failure. If the attempt fails, then it is not an attempt at all, but rather a failure.

Quote:

nintendo need people like him who can devote his time into researching metroid, and making such a theroy.

Um...how does this help nintendo?

Quote:

just because not alot of people dont like him, that doesnt mean i dont. and you people are acting like nOObs for trying to make this guy get his feelings hurt.

Saying "you are wrong" is a flame now?

Quote:

even tho his theroy might not be true, i still apreciate him making such a well thought out description.

Indeed, the attempt is admirable. But it stops being admirable if one presses a point without sufficient logic to back it up.

Quote from Dai Grepher:

Also realize that all throughout the interview Sakamoto stated that Zero Mission is only based on Metroid because it remakes gameplay. Gameplay is not the same as storyline or game plot. So this is where many people misunderstood Sakamoto's statements for indicating a remake of Metroid. Nothing could be further from the truth. He said that it is a new game and a new adventure that remakes Metroid's gameplay in order to return the series to the original style of gameplay that it sprang from.

This is all based on nothing unless you can quote specific examples of Sakamoto saying something that incontrivertably supports your argument. Also, I find it interesting that when other people quote Sakamoto at you, you say that the translated nature of the quotes make them vague at best, but when you reference Sakamoto, you say that his words concretely support your argument.

Show some hard evidence or get off your soapbox. You'd do well to stop talking about this like you have a concretely proven leg to stand on, like "So this where many people misunderstood..." etc. You haven't proven anything yet, so to theorize about why people are thinking differently from you begs the question and is oblique to the debate at hand.

[quote="Dr. Trence"]trying to make a point and make a well, thought out description is not a failure. [/quote]

Actually, an attempt is neither a success nor a failure.  If the attempt fails, then it is not an attempt at all, but rather a failure.

[quote]nintendo need people like him who can devote his time into researching metroid, and making such a theroy. [/quote]

Um...how does this help nintendo?

[quote]just because not alot of people dont like him, that doesnt mean i dont. and you people are acting like nOObs for trying to make this guy get his feelings hurt. [/quote]

Saying "you are wrong" is a flame now?

[quote]even tho his theroy might not be true, i still apreciate him making such a well thought out description.[/quote]

Indeed, the attempt is admirable.  But it stops being admirable if one presses a point without sufficient logic to back it up.

[quote="Dai Grepher"]Also realize that all throughout the interview Sakamoto stated that Zero Mission is only based on Metroid because it remakes gameplay. Gameplay is not the same as storyline or game plot. So this is where many people misunderstood Sakamoto's statements for indicating a remake of Metroid. Nothing could be further from the truth. He said that it is a new game and a new adventure that remakes Metroid's gameplay in order to return the series to the original style of gameplay that it sprang from.[/quote]

This is all based on nothing unless you can quote specific examples of Sakamoto saying something that incontrivertably supports your argument.  Also, I find it interesting that when other people quote Sakamoto at you, you say that the translated nature of the quotes make them vague at best, but when you reference Sakamoto, you say that his words concretely support your argument.

Show some hard evidence or get off your soapbox.  You'd do well to stop talking about this like you have a concretely proven leg to stand on, like "So this where many people misunderstood..." etc.  You haven't proven anything yet, so to theorize about why people are thinking differently from you begs the question and is oblique to the debate at hand.

Dr. Trence

2006-03-25 03:41:11 pm

look, im just making my point. i dont want to get into any argument now just because you disagree with me. these are the things that can mess with me, so im not going to start a argument and act like Dai, and continue it for pages. im not that kinda person, i also dont like being competitive to anyone, so you can continue the argument with Dai, because all i was doing is making my point, sticking with it, and leaving this topic.

SABERinBLUE

2006-03-25 03:43:36 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Dr. Trence:

look, im just making my point. i dont want to get into any argument now just because you disagree with me.

Well that's all well and good, but know that what's going on here is not flaming.

Quote:

these are the things that can mess with me, so im not going to start a argument and act like Dai, and continue it for pages. im not that kinda person, i also dont like being competitive to anyone, so you can continue the argument with Dai, because all i was doing is making my point, sticking with it, and leaving this topic.

If you don't want people to answer, don't post messages on the internet.

However, I don't see much competitiveness here. This is just debate. It's logic.

RT-55J

2006-03-25 04:20:31 pm

Armor Guardian

Dai Grepher's logic is hilarious.