"The full story of her first mission finally unfolds..." - Zero Mission

"Samus had completed numerous missions that others thought completely impossible." - Metroid

This is not a theory. This is a fact.



I did respond to that and showed you where you made mistakes.



I will not deny that I have expounded upon particular thoughts in the presentation, such as why the Tourian's are different. However, when it comes to text, I merely state what it says and in a few cases make factual statements based on those facts (as in the counter point section of the presentation). You however provide only supposition as to what you think it means or should have meant, which is not based on the facts.



Yes, but only cases regarding Metroid.



Your version of the sentence does not make sense. You are adding an out of game reference to a statement about in-game events. The commercial proves that it was not a case of a more dramatic production but rather a clear description of the storyline.
I never said that I would prove that Nintendo was never dramatic with others games. To do so would have been irrelevant and a waste of time.



No, it is a part of NOA's FAQ answer data. Someone who never has a question about Zero Mission will not see it.



No, I admit that it is possible to make the mistake of calling Metroid the first mission.



Wait, you are saying that calling Metroid the first mission in the NOA information was intentional? How could that be when Metroid is not actually the first mission?



Then why are you regarding this one? It obviously states that Zero Mission is very different from Metroid. It states:

"It becomes immediately obvious, however, that this adventure is very different from the first mission: dark corners teem with unfamiliar enemies, a maze of new paths lead into the unknown, and fresh puzzles lie unsolved."

We know that "first mission" is referring to Metroid, because that is the only other game being discussed and the only game Zero Mission is being compared to. However, we also know that Metroid is not the first mission. So we know that calling it the first mission was a misinformed mistake on NOA's part. This does question the entire response, which states that the two adventures are different. That is why I do not consider this proof that the game is not a remake, even though that is what it states.
NOA has also stated that they do not have all of the information regarding the games. This explains why they called Metroid the firs mission. They assumed that the first game was the first mission and were not aware of the storyline that features the games in a different chronological order.



No, I implied that the official commercial and box text intentionally call Zero Mission the first mission because it is a prequel to Metroid.



Wait, didn't you just say that you knew that is not what I meant? In reality, what I said could not even be misinterpreted like that, because I made it clear as to what I was referring to.



Thank you for reading it thoroughly.



Yes, and I responded to this in my presentation. Sakamoto does not correct him because the comment does not pertain to the question. Sakamoto merely answered the question that was asked of him. Going into something other than the question, something that he may have thought the interviewer made a mistake about might not have seemed to be a worthy endeavor to Sakamoto. However, if you look closely at one of the last comments in the interview, Sakamoto does correct the interviewer when he implies the same thing. When he is asked to comment on the story being rewritten, Sakamoto answers saying, "I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory." This shows that when the mistake is in the question, it then becomes relevant to correction.



That is an inaccurate comparison. The commercial that you pointed out is obviously not meant to inform people about the facts of the game. It is just a gimmick to catch peoples' attention. In the case of Zero Mission we have a narrator telling us details about the storyline of the game. The Zero Mission ad informs us of what the game is all about. If the commercial you presented was intended to be factual, then Link would not be played by a girl, there would be no dancing, and there would be narration of what the game includes.
The point you are forgetting with the Zero Mission commercial is that it never once mentions that it is a remake of Metroid, nor does it imply that it is the story of Samus' Metroid mission. Instead it states the opposite, that it is the story of her first adventure as a bounty hunter.



Zero Mission is a different case. Not only does most of the game look completely different, but there is also a different backstory and company-backed presentation on the game. What I mean is that Nintendo presented this as a new adventure, and there is simply no reason to think of it otherwise except for fan reviews made by IGN and other such non-official websites.

I am sure that the Final Fantasy remakes were presented as remakes, or at least tellings of the same stories as the originals.



They could have made it look original and still made it functional. All they had to do was add a fifth Zeebetite, and make the destroyed version look enough like Super Metroid. What is to say that they did not want to conform to any rules or preconceived designs at all and just decided to make a brand new adventure where their creativity would not be hindered?



Yes. That is because they are different rooms, which is my point with Zero Mission and Metroid.



Oh, you meant to say "Metroid" before. Well the slight differences between the Metroid Tourian and the destroyed version in Super Metroid can easily be attributed to the explosion that took place within that room. The door on the right side of the room was obviously rebuilt by the pirates in order to create an elevator leading down to Brinstar. We know this because that elevator room is completely new (undamaged).
For the platform, again, the explosion explains why it looks like that. Also, not to say that the designers redesigned it differently intentionally, but the transfer of this area from the NES and its screen size to the Super NES and its screen size plays a part in this as well. Making it fit the smaller screen size on the SNES would result in the room proportions being slightly off. Remember that Super Metroid had the black bar at the top of the screen to show Samus' energy, items, and map.
Notice that the gun turrets in the middle of the Zebetites are not there. Again, this is can also be attributed to the explosion.

Why doesn't this apply to Zero Mission? In other words, why can't the differences in that Tourian be explained? This is because the explosion does not make up for the differences. In Zero Mission we see the room after the explosion, and it is not consistent or even similar with what we see in Super Metroid. However, it is not as if the explosion would cause a fifth Zeebetite to appear out of thin air. So in Zero Mission's case we see that it was not designed to match Metroid or Super Metroid.

Can the explanation of the pirates rebuilding the Zero Mission room explain the differences? No. This is because of the nonexistent Zeebetite, and also because of the raw damage done to the brain pod. The pirates are not going to rebuild something to look less damaged. They are either going to reuse it or discard it. There is also the area beneath the brain pod. It is undamaged by the blast, where as the Super Metroid Tourian is. The pirates are not going to go down there and make it look just as damaged as the rest of the room because that would be pointless.



This is also attributed to the destruction and reconstruction of the base. The pirates obviously needed platforms there in order to get up and down the shaft with supplies needed to build the new Tourian and the elevator room. However, even this was built using the damaged material found in that same area. The manual proves this, as it states that Zebes was rebuilt after Metroid.

I would also like to hear your opinion on this. The escape elevator shaft in Zero Mission has a bottom that is in Tourian and a top that is at the bottom of Crateria. Aside from the fact that shafts are not lined up like in Super Metroid, how do you explain the distance between them?

For Metroid, I explain it as the elevator shaft leading up from Tourian and all the way to the top of Crateria's ceiling, then out to the right and to the surface. This shaft was destroyed in the explosion and the cave walls and platforms were used in Super Metroid.



No, and this is because of the flashback seen in Super Metroid. I know that my screenshot of the flashback does not show this because I took it at the wrong time (much too late I realized), but the flashback shows the background of the Metroid Mother Brain room fading in and out with the lighting and dimming of the equipment. The same pattern is seen in Super Metroid's game. This indicates that the flashback to Metroid's mission matches the background of that area seen in Super Metroid. This shows that they are the same room.



It does not look different, just more detailed.



Even is that were true, Zero Mission should still be similar to Super Metroid's depiction of the room in order to maintain consistency.



I posted a second interview with Sakamoto where he states that he worked with Retro closely so that they would make a storyline that fit consistently with Metroid. I do not think he would then remake Metroid to be inconsistent with a game he worked so hard on just months before.



Yes, but that is not the backstory to Zero Mission. In Zero Mission Samus was sent out to investigate a mere rumor. That sounds like a more appropriate first mission.



If you are right, then it only sounds false. Saying that the full story of the Metroid mission finally unfolds would have sounded better and correct if this were a remake.



It seems to me like the two descriptions go hand in hand. If you are the greatest in the entire galaxy, then obviously you are a legend.



The E-manga actually supports the idea that the Mother Brain remained active until the events of Zero Mission. If the Chozo made it and had the power to stop it, then why wasn't it destroyed? This is likely because the Chozo were unable to deactivate the brain before the pirates attacked and wiped out the remaining Chozo as told in the Metroid Prime manual.

This only brings up more questions. If the Chozo deactivated the brain, why leave it there for others to find? We know that destroying it does nothing more than damage a part of Tourian and a small part of Crateria. Wouldn't the realization that the brain was responsible for the downfall of the Chozo race be enough for them to destroy the thing?
Metroid II's reference to it being reactivated suggests a prior deactivation or destruction. The only thing that could have happened according to the current information is that it was destroyed. This happens in Zero Mission.



As far as versions go, I use the Zero Mission version since it is updated. However, I would still consider the rumors of Samus being a male cyborg just as canon, because it describes the story surrounding Samus during that timeframe. Zero Mission likely omitted this so that the younger gamers would not be confused by it. I also use the Metroid manual as proof that the prologue leads into Metroid, as it was written in 1986 for Metroid and not Zero Mission.



I do not see that inference in the manual. Obviously Metroid presented the story as it was happening because it was the present date. Zero Mission, which is Samus' flashback to an earlier date, is obviously told in past tense because it has already happened. By this time (when Samus flashes back), Metroid has already taken place also. While this does indicate that both stories are in the past, there is no connection between them indicating that they are the same.

It could go either way I suppose. I do not think I can use this as definitive evidence. However, I still think a remake would have presented it as something that is happening and leading up to a game that is being retold.



On any other day of the year I would believe you without question. So if you are serious then I forgive you and thank you for your comments here.



They are not the same though. Metroid's says eliminate the Metroids of Zebes and destroy the Mother Brain. Zero Mission's says to exterminate the Metroids and defeat the Mother Brain. Both are worded differently.



She did work for them in Zero Mission, however the message is never said to be from them. Metroid's message was signed by the Galactic Federal Police, while Zero Mission's was not signed at all. That message could just be Samus entering that into her ship's log.



You must be referring to the planetary explosion in Super Metroid. It is possible that Zebes' surface and inners were simply reformed by the explosion that was not powerful enough to destroy the planet. Remember that Zebes is made of a thick and strong material. The bomb many have just warped Zebes. There is evidence that suggests that the planet is still solid.



The bonus disc may not be canon. It does place Zero Mission after Metroid after all, and we know that is not possible.



An assumption indeed. This may be a case of the date when Zero Mission is told, not when it actually takes place.



How do you know he gets resurrected multiple times, and isn't that a rather unbelievable storyline element? In any case, there is no definite evidence of anything other than that of similar bosses reappearing in multiple games. This proves that it is possible for these bosses to reappear in Zero Mission without a storyline conflict.

See the main argument behind this is that Kraid and Ridley are unlikely to appear in games other than Metroid, Super Metroid, and Metroid Prime. This is baseless though. My explanation merely shows that it is possible for the prequel timeline to exist and account for each boss appearance.

The proof I use to prove that there are multiple bosses is of course seen in the games. The Kraids of Zero Mission and Super Metroid both look very different, and the one in Zero Mission is seen to have exploded. The one in Metroid Prime, which may come before Super Metroid, is reconstructed with metal parts. How then can he be without them in Super Metroid? They must be different Ridleys and Kraids because that is the only in-game explanation.



My mistake, the manual actually states the following:

"The Wrecked Ship has been shut down by the floating ghost, Phantoon."

This shows that the ship is operational until Phantoon shuts it down.

"Covern - These souls of shipwrecked creatures turn into evil spirits that wrap themselves around intruders.

Work Robots - These robots were built by ancient man to service the inside of the ship. Since the crash, they have gone completely haywire.

Phantoon - (The Boss of the Wrecked Ship) - The ghost of the ship taps in to the vicious brainwaves of the Mother Brain and attacks adventurers with deadly plasma."

It actually says that it taps into the brain waves coming from Mother Brain, not the other way around.



It does not prove that it is a prequel. It proves that it is not a remake. It states that both game begin in the same place, not at the same time. It then states that it becomes immediately obvious that Zero Mission's adventure is very different from Metroid.



Well, I disagree. It does not indicate a time, just a place.



"I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory." - Sakamoto



No, they do say that it is very different from Metroid, and that the challenges are new.



That is not what it says at all. I would like to see a direct quote of where you think it states that.



Reliving a story is possible if it has been lived before. Telling it is irrelevant to that fact.



That is unless the metal of Meta-Ridley does not conceal a head crest.



I do not see how that proves anything of the sort.



What Ridley was revived for Metroid Prime though? The pirates may have felt that giving the Zero Mission Ridley those enhancements would have been better than appointing a new Ridley, who would be considered weaker to a Meta-Ridley, to the duty of security chief.



The pirates favor power over loyalty to a fallen pirate who has failed. They may just reuse the Kraid and Ridley species because they are the most powerful species under the pirates' banner.



Whatever makes the most sense for you. There is no evidence that disproves your idea or proves mine beyond a shadow of a doubt. All I am saying is that it is possible for Ridley and Kraid to reappear throughout the series.



What is more logical, finding a new Ridley or cloning/reviving the same one each time? Perhaps it is a combination of both. Also, I do not know where you got the idea that memories are transferred.



Like what, dying almost every time?



It does not say that. It says "It's the original life form of the planet Zebes..."

http://metroid.retrofaction.com/resources/m1manual.txt

I think this implies that Zebes was the home planet of the Ridley species. This excludes animals such as the Dachoras and Etecoons.



I mean this:





And this:



And this:





I have thought this issue over many times and have come to a conclusion.



No, it would mean Zero Mission, since it is the first mission.



I think yes. The Nintendo.com description page gives Zero Mission a backstory that is completely different from Metroid's.



The maps are the same in direction only. Even then there are many areas that do not match or are completely different.



So what? The Bombs are not in the same place either. The Long Beam is also not found in the same way as in the original. Samus must roll under a cavern ceiling to get to the Long Beam.



Take all of the new things out of Super Metroid and I see a copy of Metroid with the terrain drastically altered but having the same basic structure.



It looks different to me. Not only are the Bombs misplaced but the rooms with lava are different and the trap that puts Samus at the bottom of a long pit is not there. The Ice Beam is also missing. That is not very similar at all!



Refer to the images above. Kraid's rooms are not even half as detailed as the NES rooms. Also, having large enemies on the NES would have been no problem at all. Ninja Gaiden had them. All they would have had to do with Metroid is create one vertical room with the wall made up of sprites to resemble Kraid and have a few of them move. Zero Mission's Kraid room is not even the same color as the NES room. There is no lava either. No, the Kraid rooms are not the same, and if this were a remake of Metroid, then Kraid would have been smaller like it was in Metroid. It all would have been similar to Metroid, but with updated graphics.



No they do not. Kraid and Ridley are the names of the boss areas, but they should be called Hideout I and II, or Kraid's Hideout nad Ridley's Hideout.



OK, at this point I am just going to tell you to click on this link, read it over, look at the pictures, and get back to me.

http://forums.g4tv.com/messageview.cfm?catid=8&threadid=515808&FTVAR_MSGDBTABLE=&STARTPAGE=1



No. That would be a major mistake, one that a professional game designers is incapable of making.



Yes, but this was not stated only once. This was stated again on the Zero Mission website. Also, the box and commercial both states that Zero Mission is Samus' first legendary adventure and adventure as a bounty hunter. This is a direct storyline reference. While it is possible that Nintendo made mistake after mistake after mistake, it is very unlikely.



That excuse does not work. They could have made Zero Mission to match Super Metroid. The excuse only works if you are arguing that they should have made Super Metroid to match Zero Mission, which is not possible since Zero Mission had not been created yet.



They could have done that but still could have made a consistent game. Also, what is not to say that they did not just create a brand new adventure to display these abilities?



It is about consistent storyline and gameplay, as stated by the series director.



I did not. I basically claimed what you just said. I have no theory, remember.



I do know that this was the case. NOA has stated in e-mails that they do not have all of the information about their games. It is also a fact that Metroid is not the first mission, so calling it that was clearly a mistake.



That is not true. Like I said, NOA has admitted to not having enough information on the games to make comments about their placement or status.



No they do not contradict me. They support my side of the debate because they say that the two games are very different adventures. Another NOA letter also states that it is not a remake. Therefore, by your own logic, do you choose to now back down from your stance on the issue?



Then in that case Zero Mission is not a remake because the letter proves you wrong.

According the the "first mission" quotes, if Zero Mission is not a remake then it must be a prequel.



Clarify. You read the topic in the G4 forum that I linked to in this topic, correct?



There were people in that forum that agreed with me. Only a few disagreed or did not care either way.



Where is your proof? If you have no proof then you have no argument.

Also, the text quotes from the box, manuals, and the dialogue of the commercial are not opinions. They are facts that prove only one clear thing, that Zero Mission is a prequel.



That is completely ridiculous to suggest, and you have no proof that Metroid is an incomplete story told by anyone else. Metroid is in fact a more accurate account of what happened in Metroid, and that is because Zero Mission is the telling of different events.



That is fine. You can believe whatever you wish.



It is not real proof because it is not proof at all. "Remakes change things" is not proof. "First mission means first game" is not proof. "The Morph Ball is in the same place" is not proof.

The NOA e-mail states that while both adventures take place in the same area, they are very different. Other e-mails also state outright that Zero Mission is not a remake of Metroid. Just because they referred to Metroid as the first mission in that one response does not mean it is the first mission or that they were right to call it that.



The evidence I regard is in-game text and images, manuals, box and packaging text, commercial dialogue, official website text, and quotes from the director of the game or any other developer that worked on the game.

The remake side has not provided any evidence from these sources.



His ideas that I think something other than what I say, or his opinion of my presentation are not worthy of a reply.



Interesting, and would you say that I am winning or losing this particular debate?



Untrue. Super Metroid was made to fit Metroid. Therefore, Zero Mission should be made to fit Metroid and thus Super Metroid if it were intended to be a remake.
Also, I thought you were listing an example of where I have tried to pass a mistruth off as a valid point in hopes that others would not notice. Are you retracting that accusation?



What graphical limitations did Zero Mission have that prevented it from being consistent with Metroid?



The GBA has no such graphical limitations. Your argument is flawed. Your suggestion that Nintendo wanted to do something special is an idea with no proof. If they wanted to remake Metroid, then logically they would have done so accurately. Yours is a selective theory. "Nintendo made a remake except in the cases of where it is inconsistent. In those cases they did it differently."



Presumptive and incorrect. Intrigue is easily gained with the first segment of gymnastic rehearsals and enhancement of the girl's summersault jump through the air. The next segment then informs us as to what the game is with factual dialogue and in-game video.



The argument that I was countering was one suggesting that the actual dialogue was created for dramatic purposes. This is baseless and proven false by the reference to actual storyline by the same dialogue.



The idea is that Nintendo used the words "mission" and "adventure" instead of "game" is ridiculous, because this is based on nothing except the preference that Zero Mission should be a remake. I proved this idea wrong by showing where Nintendo specifically referred to storyline and plot when referring to Zero Mission as being the first mission/adventure. The points that it would mislead and be false advertisement are also valid points.



"...her first adventure as an intergalactic bounty hunter." That is a storyline reference. "Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle here... My so-called Zero Mission." That is a storyline reference. "Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..." That is a storyline reference. You cannot possibly fit the word "game" into any of those quotes in a way that it makes sense. You also cannot get Metroid into those quotes to make it refer to Metroid.

Moreover, you have absolutely no proof that Nintendo was referring to Metroid in any of those quotes, even the "first mission" quotes, and that is because Metroid is not the first mission or adventure.



I believe you lost your prior debates because you failed to regard the evidence that the other side presented.



People that do not regard the facts will not like me regardless of what I do or how I act. People who have regarded the evidence and accepted a prequel timeline as an equal, if not more so, possibility as the remake timeline see nothing wrong with my method of debating.



I do not care about what others think of me.



NOA has stated in the same kind of responses that they simply do not have much of the necessary information regarding the game. That proves that they would make the mistake of referring to Metroid as the first mission.

You simply are not following the discussion closely enough.



That is not what he asked. He asked how the items that Samus took in Zero Mission get replaced for later games. Again, you are not following the discussion.



Archaeology has more to do with history than science. The B.S.L. would probably not waste time and resources on a mere stone carving.



Who asked that question? No one. Also, there are some items that share the same location between Metroid and Super Metroid. One that comes to mind immediately is the Morph Ball. How was that replaced?



Like I said, you did not understand the question, which was about how the same items come back for later missions.



The Space Pirates may use the missiles and Energy Tanks. Items such as the Reserve Tanks, Gravity Suit, Screw Attack, and Morph Ball however would not logically be brought to Zebes after a specific mission and placed all over the bases for a future mission. You would have to explain who did this and why. Having the Chozo statues regenerate these items is a logical in-game explanation.



I never made such a proposal. The remake side was the one to say that Nintendo has deceived its customers with Zero Mission. That is not the case. Zero Mission was presented as a new adventure that takes place before Metroid since the release date.



That was a reference to the Zelda timeline, not the Metroid timeline! Please learn to read topics before you reply to them.

The entire discussion came about when someone claimed that if Zero Mission were a prequel then Nintendo would announce that it was rather than have their fanbase be confused about the issue. My point was that this is not true, since they have not done this with the Zelda series, which is a timeline that all Zelda fans are confused about. That in no way implies that Nintendo intentionally confused the fans about Zero Mission or the Metroid series.

Please read the pages before and after for proof of what I said.



Again, you did not read what was being discussed and you have made a mistake. Thank you for actually reading something I linked to though. However, it seems you missed the part regarding the e-mail showing that NOA said that Zero Mission is not a remake. Perhaps on your second read through you will keep that in mind.

"When" indicates a time. "Where" indicates a place. They said "where" not "when".

according to the wikipedia, there is only one Ridley in his species. so it would be impossible for there to be more than one ridley in each game, thus, not making it a prequel. just sayin'...when samus killed ridley in the NEs metroid, the space pirates found his nearly dead body form, and remade it into a cyborg dragon. since he was badly hurt (nearly killed) when samus fought him. and it does make sense to have ridley be the last creature in exctinction. the space pirates wouldnt have made a different ridley a leader of their army one by one, that would be stupid...so, half the proof you need to make it a remake

"...her first adventure as an intergalactic bounty hunter."  It is possible that she did not hunt bounties between galaxies until MZM

"Now, I shall finally tell the tale of my first battle here... My so-called Zero Mission."  Her other battles could have taken place elsewhere

"Experience the first of Samus's legendary adventures..."  Her other adventures might not have been legendary.

From the IGN interview you linked to (and in fact something you used as prequel evidence):



Those two bolded parts can only refer to the story of the original Metroid.  Their exploring of the backstory a little bit more almost definitely refers to Samus's relation to the Chozo, which Metroid did not even mention.  The "expanding on the story" can only refer to the post-escape stuff.  The story to be expanded on is that of the original Metroid.  Therefore, Sajamoto is quite correct in saying "I wouldn't necessarily call it a remaking of the backstory," because it is a reTELLING of said story, with more added on.

About the "prologue" section of the MZM instruction booklet referring to the Metroid port, why in the world would Nintendo give a story for an unlockable extra at the beginning of the booklet when that extra already has its own section in said booklet and not give a story for the game the booklet is for?



Then how come Mother Brain's room has moved in relation to the morph ball/start area?  It should be above and to the right, but is instead almost directly above and slightly to the left.



Do you have any proof that Metroid is NOT an incomplete story told by someone else?  As I see it, there is no proof either way, so this should just be left alone.



What is to say that they simply didn't feel like taking the time to check the details of Mother Brain's room from Metroid against the details of Mother Brain's room from MZM?



This is one of the most unreasonable things I've ever heard.  Of course professional game designers can make mistakes!  That is why games have glitches.  They can make mistakes in consistency as well.  That is why there are plotholes in the Zelda timeline and in the storyline of Metroid Prime.  If you want an inconsistency in the main metroid timeline not involving MZM, the egg the Hatchling comes out of at the end of RoS is much larger compared to Samus than the egg in the SM flashback (that is what I meant when I said the rooms were different, btw); also there is the movement of Mother Brain's rooom between Metroid and SM that I mentioned above.  Also, it is highly unlikely that placing the correct number of Zebebites in Mother Brain's room would be on the "important things" list of any of the designers.  They would be far too busy making the game enjoyable and making sure it was running smoothly.

You're all missing the obvious!  Zero Mission is about Samus going to planet Zebes to defeat a mechanical life-form called Mother Brain.  But the original Metroid is about Samus going to the planet Zebeth to defeat a mechanical life vein called Mother Brain!  The games are completely unrelated!

Also, let's not forget that it was the Earth-2 Samus in the original game.

Does not equal



I won't even reply to the rest because it is just beating a dead horse. The mother brain battle redesign is common sense. You are just delusional now.

MOD EDIT:  Starman, don't be a jackass with the quote tags. 

Right there is proof that Zebes was destroyed at the end of Super Metroid.



I never said they REMADE the backstory. They expanded it. BIG difference. Just because the gameplay is different doesn't mean the overall story is. Samus is still there to stop the Metroids, Space Pirates, and Mother Brain. She just does things a bit differently to accomplish this task.

Think of the new King Kong movie released last year: It is considered a remake of the 1933 classic, but there are VAST differences in how each movie progresses. However, the overall storyline remains intact:

- Find Skull Island
- Ann gets captured and sacrificed to Kong
- Later, Ann gets rescued, but Kong pursues her
- Kong is captured and taken to NYC, where he breaks out
- Kong climbs the Empire State Building
- Kong faces off against the planes.
- Kong falls from the top of the Empire State Building

The movie elements may be different, but the OVERALL STORY is the same thing. The 2005 version is just a heavily modifed 1933 version, making it a longer, better movie by today's standards. The 1933 version would NEVER stand up to what movies are today, so things had to be changed. The same thing is what happened with Zero Mission. As we have stated many times already, the original 1986 Metroid, while still fun and considered a classic, doesn't come anywhere close to what many call a great game today.


My mistake: I guess I put down what I would do if I was remaking a game. Since I am studying electronic gaming at college, and hope to join the industry some day, it seemed like a logical idea to me. But, you are right when you say there is no clear evidence of this.


You say right there that NOA doesn't believe ZM to be a prequel. How can you then say that it MUST be one right afterwards?

Hahahaha, Earth-2 Samus. You rock Zeke.

Actually, that was 13M13's idea of a joke.  And he's now banned from this thread.

Whenever that is said, how many times have you seen the episode begin with the same setting, characters, and events as were shown in the previous episode? That is why one can say it begins where the last left off. It merely continues the same setting as before.

This is all beside the point though, and this is because of the following statement. "It becomes immediately obviously however, that this adventure is very different from the first..." This indicates a fact contrary to Zero Mission beginning at the same time as Metroid, because it states that the two adventures are very different. The fact that the NOA rep says "No, it isn't" to the question of if the game is a remake should be proof of that.



Wikipedia is inaccurate when it comes to Metroid because uninformed Metroid fans that write their own storylines for the series made its articles. No Metroid game indicates how many Ridleys there are, but it does in fact prove that there are at least two. That is enough to prove those Wikipedians wrong.



When Samus killed it to be nearly dead? That doesn't make sense. If there is only one Ridley, then how does Meta-Ridlet become normal Ridley in Super Metroid? Also, how do the B.S.L. researchers obtain the fully composed body of the "only" Ridley and manage to freeze him when the "only" Ridley was blown up along with Planet Zebes in Super Metroid? It looks like I will have to pay Wikipedia an early visit.



Ridley was only the leader of the Space Pirates once, and that was in Zero Mission. Every other game has Ridley fill a lesser title.



"It becomes immediately obvious however that this adventure is very different..."

Clearly indicating different adventures in spite of similar settings.



Nice try.

"As a last resort, the Federation Police decided on a risky strategy: to send a lone space hunter to penetrate the pirate base and destroy the mechanical life-form that controlled the fortress and its defenses - the Mother Brain. The space hunter chosen for this mission was Samus Aran." - Metroid prologue

Samus was a "Space Hunter" which is also what they are called in Metroid's version of the prologue. "Space" includes multiple galaxies.



Of course, but what about "Now, I shall finally tell the tale"? That indicates that Samus is telling this tale for the first time. How can this tale be Metroid if Metroid's mission was told multiple times (Metroid, Metroid II, Super Metroid, Metroid Prime, Metroid Fusion)?



Nice try, again.

"Considered the greatest of all the bounty hunters, Samus had successfully completed numerous missions that others had thought impossible." - Metroid prologue

If you are the greatest, and if you have completed numerous missions that others thought impossible, you are a legend.

I would like to point out two other things. Here the prologue makes the distinction between Space Hunters and Bounty Hunters. These two titles are not synonymous.
Also, none of this is my theory or opinion. These are quotes straight from the manual.



Prove false by these statements:

"With Metroid Zero Mission not using text-based messaging or language in the game, we've used more visual cinematics to express the story through her recollections or memory."

The entire game was a flashback, as proven by Samus' past tense narration. There are also cinematics all throughout the game. Sakamoto then refers to the story, not just the backstory.

"Through that, we've created a story that is open to interpretation to the player, and as people play I think they'll interpret Samus' past based on what they take on those cinematics."

Created a story? Well, if this were a remake then there would not be anything to create but rather recreate. He then refers to this as Samus' past. Since Zero Mission is a past tense game told at a later date in time, it makes the expanded story all of Zero Mission itself. That is not hard to understand when you realize that Zero Mission is a prequel.

I almost forgot about the second comment in this response of his. "We've taken this opportunity to explore the backstory a little bit more." Well guess what a prequel is. A backstory expansion.



Same reason they restated Metroid's prologue in Metroid II's manual, to give the game a basis as a prequel (or a sequel in Metroid II's case).

If the Zero Mission box states that it is Samus' first mission and adventure, and there is a story in the book referring to previous missions, how hard is it then to conclude that Zero Mission is the first of those prior missions?



The Super Metroid manual states that Zebes had to be rebuilt after Metroid. The explosion in Metroid must have caused those areas to shift.

This is also another inconsistency with Zero Mission, which shows that all the areas are the same even after the explosion.



Obviously Samus would be the only one capable of telling the events of Metroid, as she was sent there alone. As far as being an incomplete story, that is proven false by the fact that Metroid is consistent with the other games in the series, INCLUDING Zero Mission as a prequel.



Sakamoto's statement of game consistency being important to him. Now answer my question. What indicates that they did not just make a brand new adventure?



Glitches are errors that are created by conflicting game code, not game designers. This is a hypothetical case of people designing a remake to be completely inaccurate with what they are remaking.



Mistakes yes, but completely different designs? No. They intentionally made it different as seen in the lack of conformity.



Metroid Prime has no plotholes.

Technically there are none in the Zelda timeline. It all depends what timeline you use and how you link the games together. Also, Miyamoto speaks of a document that supposedly links all of the Zelda games together.



Size transitions between a Gameboy system to a Super Nintendo system are bound to have slight proportional differences. The camera may have been closer in Metroid II, or perhaps it was from a different angle!



That is accounted for in Super Metroid's manual.



It is unlikely that Zero Mission is a remake of Metroid.



OK, I am going to post a comparison/contrast picture. I want you to tell me if the two images look the same or different. Here we go:





Would you like marshmallows for your flames? Better yet, are you actually going to discuss the issue? If not then I am done replying to you.



"A enhanced retelling of her first video game's adventure."

"The full story of her legendary Metroid adventure."

"The tale of the NES Metroid relived through Samus' perspective."

Numerous ways to say it, yet it was not. Just as I told you before, you take a quote and twist it to add your own spin. What you think it means is not what it actually says. "First adventure" does not fit or relate to Metroid in the least and you know it. That is why you make excuses. I thought that true Metroid fans sought the true timeline and regarded the facts. Why they are you fighting against the facts and trying to change them to fit your personal belief?



They also make money by making new adventures and expanding upon their game series.



Well it seems that some online stores have questioned Nintendo about the game, but that does not mean that it is the official description. The official description is found here:

http://www.nintendo.com/gamemini?gameid=m-Game-0000-1856

That presents a completely different backstory though, so you will probably say it is not canon or just put your own meanings behind the words.



No, I admit that calling Metroid the first mission is a mistake that many people avoid doing.



Your argument is baseless, because you do not have any proof that they meant to refer to Metroid when the said "first mission" on the box and the website.



That obviously refers to a mission that we have not seen before. It presents the event as an unknown. You also skipped the part regarding the capture of Metroids that exist on Zebes, once again showing that you disregard the facts.



So where is your proof that Nintendo is overly dramatic when it comes to factual information?



Prove that it is a redesign and not a new design. I could point to the new Super Metroid Tourian and say it is a remake of Metroid's version and I would be just as wrong as you are about Zero Mission.



OK, the point was that the B.S.L. would not waste time on a stone carving. This implies that the Chozo statues have technology in them. Why didn't you reply to what I posted before? Oh, I see. You must have realized that what I said was relevant to the entire topic and that you have no counter argument against me. That is fine.



Prove it.



Really? That is the part most people hate.

Also, you just contradicted yourself. Right before this you said that the two adventures are the same. However, the NOA letters state that the adventures are very different. Therefore, don't the NOA letters prove you wrong?



You said it, not me.



Not here, but in the Metroid community the prequel side is the majority.



The only things your side has submitted are opinions, which I respect but do not regard as facts. Others have asked valid questions that have lead me to make strong points proving that Zero Mission is indeed a prequel. Lastly, none of you have refuted any of the evidence that I have brought up, and a few of you are even twisting the facts to suit your own theories. That is just wrong. You all should be searching for the truth, not making things up to keep believing in the remake theory.



That doesn't mean that it is dust and debris though. It could just be a shattered and chaotic planet of molten rock and no atmosphere.



She does the same thing in Super Metroid. Is that a remake now too?



Think of the new King Kong movie and finding a group of people on the Internet one day trying to tell you that it is a remake of Planet of the Apes. Well, I guess that would not be exactly like this issue, but you get the idea. There is no evidence that the game is a remake, and all of the facts that exist prove that it is a prequel or at least not a remake of Metroid.



That is ok. I respect you for correcting yourself. I have done the same in the past as well.



Zero Mission can only be one thing. It must be a remake, or it must be a prequel. It cannot be both, and it cannot be neither one. NOA says it is neither one, and they are obviously wrong as even they admit.

If Zero Mission is not a remake, then it must be a prequel since it is the first mission. Also, if it is not a prequel then it must be a remake, although a horribly inconsistent one. I will accept either one, but right now I accept the one that has all the facts supporting it.

ok Dai, we get the point, and we concede to you, you are indeed a stubborn moroon who continues to manipulatewhat people say so that your opinion will come out on top, and if it isnt clear enough, let me explain it to you in the simplest possible way:

... IF YOU ARE TRYING TO PERSUADE US, IT ISNT WORKING! NO ONE ACCEPTS YOUR IDEAS, AND WE REJECT THEM, HECK, WE EVEN HAVE OUR OWN SITE, AND TOGETHER WE KNOW MUCH MORE ABOUT METROID AND ITS STORY THAN YOU EVER WILL! ... oops, caps lock, face it dai, you've lost. end. of. story. your arguement is growing increasingly more pathetic every post you make as you try to persuade us over to your side, and you twist ours and others words, saying that we didn't mean what we said, then when we correct you, you ignore us, and act as if our counter arguement is little more than an innocent little baby bunny about to be run over by a lawnmower. you have contradicted yourself in at least 8 spots i have counted. you cannot tell us that what we say is an assumption, when 80% of what you say is an assumption too! the mother brain room is different in MZM and SM, so? you said it yourself, the game is being played as if it was a flashback, well, guess what? MEMORIES ARENT PERFECT! you can forget things, and even think that things happened in a different way than they actually did! NO ONE IS ON YOUR SIDE, GIVE UP! in all the posts and topics you have linked us to, i have UTTERLY FAILED to see anyone at all the agrees with you, and when you say that the majority of the metroid community agrees with you, guess what? WE ARE THE MAJORITY, HERE AND SCU! G4 and the nintendo do not make up the metroid majority, we do. hell, 70% of the time you ask how to do something on one of those forums, they link you to us. NO ONE AGGRES, GIVE UP, IN FACT, IF I WERE A MOD, I WOULD LOCK THIS TOPIC FOR BEING STUPID, but im not a mod, and im not siggesting any mod to lock this, since that would be minimodding, which is against the rules.

Firstly, you state that we've only brought up opinioins, and not evidence. Uhm.
Haha.
Uhm, Dai, our evidence is as substantial as yours. What I guess you don't understand is the fact (to use your own too-oft thrown around word) that logic is ALSO a form of evidence. Look, you've got your pictures and your text, which is great, but your logic is completely backwards and circular. You make the assumption about what Sakamoto was feeling and thinking in his reply to IGN's question. Clearly, because you said so, he must have simply ignored that part of the question. And that is also, according to you, evidence that Nintendo isn't trying to confuse their customers. Because Sakamoto didn't correct the IGN interviewer, it's clear as day that either he agreed with the interviewer's presumption about the timeline status of MZM, and didn't feel the need to correct him on a non-issue, or... Nintendo doesn't care about confusing their customers.
One option allows your theory to still stand, but also forces you to admit that Nintendo doesn't care about confusing their customers on the status of MZM in the Metroid timeline. The other option simply does not allow your theory to stand.



Uhm. It's a part of the question as a whole, and since Game-Designers-Don't-Make-Mistakes, clearly Sakamoto isn't making a mistake in letting that slip, correct? He's either: intentionally confusing his customers through not clarifying that it is indeed a prequel, Or: it's actually not a prequel, and so he felt no need to clarify it.


Secondly, you state that "Others have asked questions that have lead you to make strong points about MZM being a prequel." Who? Who has asked you questions that have lead to ANY strong points that were not initially made in your presentation and simply repeated, or were not refuted by us (and in turn refuted back by you spewing the same information from your initial presentation)? You go on to state that none of us are providing evidence to back up our refutations, which in turn makes them only opinions. Fuck that; once again you ignore the logic behind our posts, and weave around it with assumptions about the state of mind Nintendo as a whole has regarding their overall goals in making MZM. They've stated that paying attention to detail is important to them... from this you assume that they have the time and resources to get everything right? You apply your own logic here, and state that if they were trying to pay attention to detail they'd have the same amount of Zebetites, etc. as in the original Metroid adventure on the NES.
But if they pay attention to detail, then how do plotholes as seen in the original Metroid Prime come about?


This states that the pirates had Metroid Prime under their control at one point - that they had breached the crater and seized it.

But wait! This scan here says they couldn't figure out the artifacts, and it's dated after the first one:


Wait a tick! They've already breached the crater, as evidenced by the earlier dated log file.

Prime Breach: Plot Breach.

Thank you. Now go on to tell me how this isn't evidence, but is only an opinion. I suspect it will have to do with me not "knowing how to read pirate dating systems", to which you'll attach a theory. I can't wait.

Lastly, (which isn't a word in the way you used it), you've still not answered any of Kejardon's comments about your twisting of words and ignoring of facts. Ohnoes, he must be flaming, because you can't get your ideas straight? I cannot believe you dare to continue your dirty asskissery. You disgust me. You have still not shown how your statements have any logical backing to them, much less any more backing than ours. You've ignored Kejardon's claims by stating them to be flames... even if they were, that doesn't make them any less true, and in turn doesn't mean you can just ignore them. You also ignored my statement at the end of my paragraph, so I'll say it again here: Nobody appreciates your sarcastic friendly tones. Stop pretending you're not a cold/heartless machine, and start refuting our claims.

Okay, I'm now done attempting to use your own style of logic to persuade you.



My comment was about that quote from the commercial that you use as evidence.  It had nothing to do with the Metroiid prologue.  Besides, the term "space hunter" is very vague and can apply to anyone who hunts things in space, even if they stay in their own galaxy while doing the hunting.

Spine Shark already answered the next point



First, the definition of legendary: "extremely well-known; famous"  This is probably the definition we want.  Nowhere in the prologue does it state that Samus's"numerous missions thought impossible" were extremely well-known or famous.  You have pulled that idea out of thin air.



did you even read what I typed?

The story he says they created was the post explosion stuff and the opening message from Samus.  Those are the only parts of the game that refer to Samus's past, and the second part of the sentence makes it clear that the story they have created is about Samus's past.  By Samus's past, I mean her time wthe the Chozo on Zebes.

[quore="dai wrote"]

Same reason they restated Metroid's prologue in Metroid II's manual, to give the game a basis as a prequel (or a sequel in Metroid II's case). [/quote]

RoS also had its own backstory in the manual.



the extreme similarities between the basic map layout, stories, and item locations



No, they only make money when people buy these new adventures and expansions of their game series.  Nintendo does not get money just for making a game, especially since making games actually COSTS the company money.



You have no proof that they didn't.



Why would Nintendo randomly add a frame to the story section of the MZM section of the official Metroid site refering to something other than Zero Mission?

About that thing on the Nintendo website that you claim is the official backstory for MZM, did you notice that it says at the top: "article source: Nintendo Power?" (note: the question mark is inside the quotation marks simply because I am following the rules of English grammar, not becausethe source of the article is questionable)  Nintendo Power is not going to have the official MZM backstory when NoA doesn't even know whether or not the game is a remake or prequel.

Concerning the NoA e-mail, you seem to be the only one who thinks it implies a prequel.  Every other person who read it sees it as implying a remake.

You're telling us to give proof when most of your proof is simply your opinion on certain details.  Not that it really matters, but a Google search for metroid zero mission remake turns up 71,900 results while a Google search for metroid zero mission prequel turns up 13,900.