My potential 100% Segmented Run: Updates on occassion

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-12 03:17:47 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-11 04:41:19 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-10 05:27:24 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-10 05:27:00 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-10 05:24:59 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-06 04:53:58 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-06 04:35:24 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-06 02:17:36 pm

2012-04-06 02:16:06 pm

So since I seen Behemoth's run, I decided I was going to do one myself. Unfortunately as of this moment, I have to do my practice runs with whatever I have left in my memory banks. Which also means my runs are outdated. Once I get access to videos again, I believe I can at least improve on said record. I can't say for sure what time I can manage, since I clearly don't know. I will be updating my progress as I go, it won't be everyday but it should be at least once a week. This is what I've done so far after dusting the rust off my hands and the dust off my cartridge. A lot of this is rambling so I tried to keep it short. Thanks for listening and I hope I can get this done within the next year.

If anyone ever has any tips on what I am doing wrong, don't be shy and let me know. =)

Here is a video I did previously for killing Kraid:

Also one of me fighting Draygon:

Thread title:

Dessyreqt

Edit history:

Dessyreqt: 2012-04-06 06:37:38 pm

2012-04-06 06:36:21 pm

Here's some notes for you:

Your Kraid kill can be improved by about a second, but it's good enough for now.

Draygon can be 2 rounded without supers; you should save those for the Ridley fight.

You should be aiming for a 45 or higher Ceres time. Also, if you reset during the cutscene, you should have a save with 24 health and 0:00 on the clock. If it's 0:01, reset and try again!

Early power bombs are more error prone and actually cost time if done perfectly, with the exception that you're doing something like RS's route after LN, but that would require getting X-Ray before Space Jump and is therefore a bad idea.

Upper Norfair should go like this: High-Jump, Speed Booster, Wave Beam, Ice Beam. If you're going for Grapple, don't get Ice Beam until after Maridia. The fastest way is to get Ice Beam and use Springball glitch.

Keep up the pace! If you want some folks to talk to about this in realtime, I'd recommend #supermetroid on the m2k2/SDA irc.

By the way, some of the advice I've given will run counter to the conventional wisdom on this board. It is up to you to test for yourself everyone's ideas and implement them as you find they work best for you. Good luck!

Here's some notes for you:

Your Kraid kill can be improved by about a second, but it's good enough for now.

Draygon can be 2 rounded without supers; you should save those for the Ridley fight.

You should be aiming for a 45 or higher Ceres time. Also, if you reset during the cutscene, you should have a save with 24 health and 0:00 on the clock. If it's 0:01, reset and try again!

Early power bombs are more error prone and actually cost time if done perfectly, with the exception that you're doing something like RS's route after LN, but that would require getting X-Ray before Space Jump and is therefore a bad idea.

Upper Norfair should go like this: High-Jump, Speed Booster, Wave Beam, Ice Beam. If you're going for Grapple, don't get Ice Beam until after Maridia. The fastest way is to get Ice Beam and use Springball glitch.

Keep up the pace! If you want some folks to talk to about this in realtime, I'd recommend #supermetroid on the m2k2/SDA irc.

By the way, some of the advice I've given will run counter to the conventional wisdom on this board. It is up to you to test for yourself everyone's ideas and implement them as you find they work best for you. Good luck!

Quietus

2012-04-06 07:56:05 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm fairly certain that it's been discussed before, and having a 0:00 save makes no difference. I think it was Kejardon who said that the game saves two or three times during the cutscene / landing sequence, so even though it says 0:00, as soon as you have left the ship, it'll be 0:01 anyway. Of course, there are bragging rights. aiwebs_004

Dessyreqt

2012-04-07 08:54:13 pm

Yes, the game saves three times: once when you arrive in Ceres, once when you escape and once again when you land on the surface. However, for a segmented run, I believe a 0:00 save in the cutscene is a decent sanity check to make sure your movement is good, both going in and out of Ceres. Then again, I exclusively run single segment, so take that with as much salt as you'd like.

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-10 06:09:23 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-10 05:43:47 pm

2012-04-10 05:43:12 pm

I'll just reiterate what I updated my post with. Thanks for the advice, but I need more than that. I'm currently watching Behemoth's video.

Quietus

2012-04-11 06:37:40 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

As I said, most of the recent discoveries and timesavers are all covered in the two (NTSC and PAL) threads. Watching Behemoth's video will cover a lot of them, but there's also probably a lot of stuff that you may not even notice, like all of the 'back down' (I think they referred to them as that!) tricks

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-04-11 01:19:28 pm

2012-04-11 01:17:22 pm

If there's absolutely anything you need to understand or need help with, by all means ask. I and the rest of us will do our best to help

I'd also suggest just to keep posting rather than updating just so we don't miss anything

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-11 04:42:02 pm

2012-04-11 04:38:23 pm

I plan to keep posting. That's the only way to make it clear that I updated at all. Thanks a lot Behemoth and everyone else. Here are a few issues I am having right now:

Hero Climb: I used to be able to do it, not sure exactly what I am doing wrong now. Everytime I shoot up, the second turtle gets hit. I also don't know for sure of my game version, which is my second issue.

NTSC: How do I figure that out?

Missle outside SB: Is there anyway to jump enter, shoot and grab without TAS?

Controller set-up: You guys said L is standard for running now, I understand why. Thing is, I'm going to test my second controller tonight, I've cleaned both of them out but my R and L buttons suck and I really don't want to run without my down angle. What is your set-up Behemoth? I've been using stock and just changing Y to the item select.

The "down" cross in MB room: First entrance going to morphball, is it faster to quick jump or to "down" cross the entire room? I can do both easily enough.

First Shaft climb: Is it faster to use the platforms or the wall? If the platforms, what is required to do it quickly?

I guess that's all the questions I have right now. I'll update a bit.

I plan to keep posting. That's the only way to make it clear that I updated at all. Thanks a lot Behemoth and everyone else. Here are a few issues I am having right now:

Hero Climb: I used to be able to do it, not sure exactly what I am doing wrong now. Everytime I shoot up, the second turtle gets hit. I also don't know for sure of my game version, which is my second issue.

NTSC: How do I figure that out?

Missle outside SB: Is there anyway to jump enter, shoot and grab without TAS?

Controller set-up: You guys said L is standard for running now, I understand why. Thing is, I'm going to test my second controller tonight, I've cleaned both of them out but my R and L buttons suck and I really don't want to run without my down angle. What is your set-up Behemoth? I've been using stock and just changing Y to the item select.

The "down" cross in MB room: First entrance going to morphball, is it faster to quick jump or to "down" cross the entire room? I can do both easily enough.

First Shaft climb: Is it faster to use the platforms or the wall? If the platforms, what is required to do it quickly?

I guess that's all the questions I have right now. I'll update a bit.

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2012-04-11 05:15:18 pm

2012-04-11 05:14:39 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

NTSC vs PAL. This will simply be a case of your location. In the US, you'll have a US SNES running NTSC. If you're in Europe (and others), you're running PAL. I believe you'll also find that the language in the options menu will be a European language (German?) instead of Japanese. Also, European SNES game cartridges are rounded, whereas the US ones are very square.

Missiles: Probably, but it may be easier to collect them while exiting, rather than entering, as you'll be right below them.

First shaft: It's faster by platform, but due to the possibility of cockups (not to mention the insane accuracy required), it's MUCH safer, and not much slower, to wall-jump.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-11 05:24:30 pm

I meant exiting, IE entering the room again.

Well, I don't have a hard time using the platforms and I feel it is easier for me to do. If I am not TAS wall jumping each platform, will it still be quicker?

Quietus

Edit history:

Quietus: 2012-04-11 05:27:45 pm

2012-04-11 05:27:20 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yes-ish. You'd have to be super fast with your platforming to be faster than wall-jumping. It's essentially TAS only, if not for difficulty, then for consistency. I can't imagine how many attempts it'd take for a great shaft run via platforms.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-11 05:30:43 pm

What's the time it takes for a "perfect" wall jump and a non wall jumping platform, some wall jumping platform, and all wall jumping platform with enough consistency?

Quietus

2012-04-11 05:33:07 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I don't know. In every type of run, runners have to balance difficulty with consistency, and as far as I know nobody does the shaft via platforms, simply for consistency.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-11 05:34:31 pm

Thanks for your patience. I'll be praticing the shaft and seeing how consistent I am. Oddly enough, I can't stay as consistent with wall jumping myself. Hopefully this will change things. God I wish I could use an emulator again... Practicing would be oh so much easier.

Quietus

2012-04-11 05:35:03 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

No problem, and, as ever, good luck. Pray

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-04-11 07:30:31 pm

2012-04-11 07:29:51 pm

sorry bit late checking back on this.

First shaft: Do wall jumping definitely, I can't remember exactly but I think you have to be pretty solid TAS like with loads of ledge grabbing and instant jumping to be faster, and as quietus said, it's way more prone to cocking it up anyway. Wall jumping should be something you'll naturally get better at as time goes on.

My button setup is default apart from item select is set to the L button. Which means run is still on the B button, and I don't have standing angle down. I remember changing it to this nearly a few years back now (I think) and I had to change the way I thought about the game and adapt just a handful of room, but the gains were staggering for me in making more rooms easier and faster with quicker missile switching.

With the hero climb what I do is make sure the last wall jump that you do to get onto the platform is a high one before landing on the platform and doing the hero shot; So you catch a "glimpse" of the turtles; Well it triggers their movements anyway. This is what I do on PAL and I can't remember if it's the same here on NTSC but I think it is. It's been a while...

Lol I thought you were talking about a metroid room at first until I wrote so much and then had to delete it all after I realized what you meant.
It's faster to jump them, sometimes the jumps can be iffy but it's not hard generally speaking. I only do the first "down" cross to get Samus into position properly for the next set of run and jumps. Otherwise sometimes I land too far after the first initial jump and the run up is too short making me miss the next jump. This room is more of a problem on PAL because of the slightly smaller jumping distance.

sorry bit late checking back on this.

First shaft: Do wall jumping definitely, I can't remember exactly but I think you have to be pretty solid TAS like with loads of ledge grabbing and instant jumping to be faster, and as quietus said, it's way more prone to cocking it up anyway. Wall jumping should be something you'll naturally get better at as time goes on.

My button setup is default apart from item select is set to the L button. Which means run is still on the B button, and I don't have standing angle down. I remember changing it to this nearly a few years back now (I think) and I had to change the way I thought about the game and adapt just a handful of room, but the gains were staggering for me in making more rooms easier and faster with quicker missile switching.

With the hero climb what I do is make sure the last wall jump that you do to get onto the platform is a high one before landing on the platform and doing the hero shot; So you catch a "glimpse" of the turtles; Well it triggers their movements anyway. This is what I do on PAL and I can't remember if it's the same here on NTSC but I think it is. It's been a while...

Lol I thought you were talking about a metroid room at first until I wrote so much and then had to delete it all after I realized what you meant.
It's faster to jump them, sometimes the jumps can be iffy but it's not hard generally speaking. I only do the first "down" cross to get Samus into position properly for the next set of run and jumps. Otherwise sometimes I land too far after the first initial jump and the run up is too short making me miss the next jump. This room is more of a problem on PAL because of the slightly smaller jumping distance.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-12 03:30:54 pm

First, screw updating first post. The posting here is annoying as hell.

Shaft: Well, I know that it would be natural to learn to wall jump, don't get me wrong, I'm not bad at it at all. I am just not perfect about it or close to it, so it's harder for me. Especially using an old ass SNES controller. As far as messing up the platforms, my accuracy there is very very high but I need to know if it is faster if you are completely accurate based on if you use wall jumps, some wall jumps and no wall jumps. I'm not that worried about this part being consistent since it is so close to the beginning.

I'll try that button setup, it sounds like a good idea. I am not used to using L for run but it's a bitch to use Y to change weapons anyway. Unfortunately, that removes my down right angle... Guess I'll just get used to it.

Hero climb is probably the same, I think I have a video someplace on youtube.

As far as the MB room, I realized that's why you did that, just wanted to know if it were faster. Thanks.

As far as my update goes, I can almost do the shaft upon entry to crateria, from the room above it, you know where you fall to the crack next to the bombable wall after torizo, I go from there and I've almost got it down to where I won't land on anything. So far, I land on the right side of the door and the platform afterwards. Still practicing that area. I can almost always do a semi-wall jump climb in the shaft back upwards. For some reason, having trouble with the MB room crossing. I wasn't having problems before.

First, screw updating first post. The posting here is annoying as hell.

Shaft: Well, I know that it would be natural to learn to wall jump, don't get me wrong, I'm not bad at it at all. I am just not perfect about it or close to it, so it's harder for me. Especially using an old ass SNES controller. As far as messing up the platforms, my accuracy there is very very high but I need to know if it is faster if you are completely accurate based on if you use wall jumps, some wall jumps and no wall jumps. I'm not that worried about this part being consistent since it is so close to the beginning.

I'll try that button setup, it sounds like a good idea. I am not used to using L for run but it's a bitch to use Y to change weapons anyway. Unfortunately, that removes my down right angle... Guess I'll just get used to it.

Hero climb is probably the same, I think I have a video someplace on youtube.

[hidden]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qe8f8BDQt6E&feature=plcp&context=C4449075VDvjVQa1PpcFMnPcly8_Eoq7-KS4NaQY7HsOPSxz5Jtcw=[/hidden]

As far as the MB room, I realized that's why you did that, just wanted to know if it were faster. Thanks.

[color="red"]As far as my update goes, I can almost do the shaft upon entry to crateria, from the room above it, you know where you fall to the crack next to the bombable wall after torizo, I go from there and I've almost got it down to where I won't land on anything. So far, I land on the right side of the door and the platform afterwards. Still practicing that area. I can almost always do a semi-wall jump climb in the shaft back upwards. For some reason, having trouble with the MB room crossing. I wasn't having problems before.[/color]

Quietus

2012-04-12 03:48:12 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

For your platform / wall-jump shaft question. In short, for platforming to be faster, you have to be stupid accurate, as in bordering on TAS. Otherwise, it's quicker to wall-jump.

GuardianGarr

2012-04-12 03:58:16 pm

Alright. Thanks a lot Quietus, especially being so patient for my dumb questions lol

Torizo, How much missles and shots to kill him? I can work my own tactic in.

Behemoth

2012-04-13 12:41:58 pm

I went to watch my run to double check so I could answer that question but then I realized I skip Torizo, d'oh!

.

7 missiles and 5 pea shots. Or 5 pea shots and 7 missiles, preferably the latter order since you shouldn't have missiles after entering the room. So at the start you can get 5 early pea shots in before he unleashes the orbs in which you shoot them to get your missiles back, then you can use the 7 missiles. By and large Hotarubi's method is the most reliable and fastest which is kind of what I described.

GuardianGarr

Edit history:

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-13 03:26:02 pm

GuardianGarr: 2012-04-13 03:25:48 pm

2012-04-13 02:50:41 pm

I'll try his tactic as I usually end up getting hit a lot during that battle lol Never really tried to understand the strat behind it. Thanks.

As of right now, I praticed more on the shaft part. Realized that I may only be able to reach a minimum of 1 touch down unless I realllly want to learn how to wiggle drop. I can kinda do it on the purple platforms but that's all. Did some other areas as well.

I'd like to know if there is a way with damage bouncing in the shaft leading to Brinstar before the pirates, to get to the end faster? Also without the angle down, which I might change back to because my L button sucks ass.

BTW: Does it matter how many segments I have during the run? Does it make it a separate ranking? I don't plan to have like 20 but maybe 1-2 more?

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-04-13 04:28:10 pm

2012-04-13 04:22:20 pm

I believe we dabbled in the idea of damage boosting in that room and it didn't prove to be much faster strangely enough, better to keep running. NTSC has differently placed enemies in this room among others so maybe something could be tested here as I'd like to know for sure.

It doesn't matter how many segments you want to use when starting out, but going for hardcore times it does matter a lot, as each save costs in the region of ten seconds. I kept my runs saves down to a minimum. I was even originally going to have one huge segment from red brinstar all the way to the Botwoon save, but that segment proved too long and difficult for me to get everything right and remain highly consistent. So I fought with the idea of the wrecked ship save to help out, knowing that it could be quite costly in the end if I let my guard slip. But thankfully it did help out, a lot. However if I added any more saves in the run I probably could have kissed 0:48 goodbye and only would be looking at 0:49 instead. So you have to be really strict on yourself and believe in your skills to flesh out large segments. Bare in mind also the saves I use are ones not too far off the beaten track to avoid wasting any more time, and they are strategically placed before tough parts ahead, namely bosses. This was all a crucial and intentional part of the strategy so I recommend sticking to these save hubs as well; and I also get the faint impression by the community that it is now considered a common consensus to use these ones too. If you're going to have 1 or 2 more that could be ok but absolutely no more. I believe Forensic is/was thinking about using one more than me which would be the Tourian save when you first enter.

I believe we dabbled in the idea of damage boosting in that room and it didn't prove to be much faster strangely enough, better to keep running. NTSC has differently placed enemies in this room among others so maybe something could be tested here as I'd like to know for sure.

It doesn't matter how many segments you want to use when starting out, but going for hardcore times it does matter a lot, as each save costs in the region of ten seconds. I kept my runs saves down to a minimum. I was even originally going to have one huge segment from red brinstar all the way to the Botwoon save, but that segment proved too long and difficult for me to get everything right and remain highly consistent. So I fought with the idea of the wrecked ship save to help out, knowing that it could be quite costly in the end if I let my guard slip. But thankfully it did help out, a lot. However if I added any more saves in the run I probably could have kissed 0:48 goodbye and only would be looking at 0:49 instead. So you have to be really strict on yourself and believe in your skills to flesh out large segments. Bare in mind also the saves I use are ones not too far off the beaten track to avoid wasting any more time, and they are strategically placed before tough parts ahead, namely bosses. This was all a crucial and intentional part of the strategy so I recommend sticking to these save hubs as well; and I also get the faint impression by the community that it is now considered a common consensus to use these ones too. If you're going to have 1 or 2 more that could be ok but absolutely no more. I believe Forensic is/was thinking about using one more than me which would be the Tourian save when you first enter.

Quietus

2012-04-13 05:27:17 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from GuardianGarr:

I praticed more on the shaft part. Realized that I may only be able to reach a minimum of 1 touch down unless I realllly want to learn how to wiggle drop.

I'm not quite sure what you're saying here, since the current strategy is one touch already. You hit the top platform when you enter, which is the one touch, and then touch nothing until you hit the floor by the door...

Behemoth

2012-04-13 05:35:16 pm

The current strategy is actually two touches. The top platform as mentioned, and a ledge 2/3 of the way down where we use the back down trick while shooting the door beneath us.

Quietus

2012-04-13 06:48:44 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I presume he meant landing, not just touching.