Multiple Difficulties in Hacks [locked]

2008-10-24 04:41:01 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Has nobody noticed that ZM's hard mode includes many more enemies?

2008-10-24 05:02:13 pm

It does doesn't it? Not much that i can do though, unless I start getting into repointing enemy data (which I probably will, but still not sure about adding more enemies, that might get tricky for a hard mode.)

Bloodsonic

2008-10-24 06:05:44 pm

I suggest just making each enemy much stronger. (it will make your life so much easier.)

Crys

2008-10-25 04:11:11 am

Green-Kirby, ROAR!

Quote from Bloodsonic:

I suggest just making each enemy much stronger. (it will make your life so much easier.)

But it's not good design if you have to spam 20 shoots, instead of 5, with the pea shooter for each enemy. :/

Gaius_4

2008-10-25 09:41:19 am

Quote from Bloodsonic:

I suggest just making each enemy much stronger. (it will make your life so much easier.)

Don't forget harder, better, and faster. :)

@ Crys. LOL, I like the avatar. laugh new

MetroidMst

2008-10-25 04:32:28 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

I personally don't like the idea of making a hard version, but it is whatever the hack creator wants to do. (This has been an ongoing fight between DSO and me, I don't like, he is all for it... Go figure.)

Why do most people think mochballing is hard? Of all the tricks possible mochballing and by extension speedballing are the easiest to pull off... Maybe it is just me.

SleepingSeaweed

2008-10-25 06:36:48 pm

Quote from MetroidMst:

Why do most people think mochballing is hard? Of all the tricks possible mochballing and by extension speedballing are the easiest to pull off... Maybe it is just me.

Indeed. I also never understood why so many people seem to worry about IBJ. While there are many reasons not to include it as a necessary move, it's not exactly hard. You just roll into a ball and repeatedly press the fire button in rhythm. You don't even have to time it well...

FP, I like your idea of a hard version. Cut down supplies? Great. Add more enemies? Sure.
...add more health to enemies? Boooring.

FirePhoenix

2008-10-25 07:42:57 pm

Adding more enemies is not as simple as it sounds. If I use all the enemies in a room for the easy version of it, I have to repoint the enemy data to free space to add more. And by the end of the hack, who knows if I'll have enough free space left? It's much easier to just add more health and have them cause more damage. (not to mention less headache-prone)

SleepingSeaweed

2008-10-26 08:17:14 am

I know exactly how tedious it would be to add more enemies... I'm not even sure if I know how to repoint enemy data to a different bank. Or maybe that's what you meant with "who knows if I'll have enough free space left?" But it's a much better idea from a player perspective. Or actually, it depends. If you make it so an enemy can take two missiles instead of one, that's no big deal, even making it so a geemer can take two hits instead of just one can make a big difference in how you play. It depends on how strong/weak the enemy was to begin with. I just wouldn't want to see those enemies that interrupt the flow of the game. Some baddies are ok, but there shouldn't be several you have to defeat just to get into the next room.

If SM enemies were a bit smarter it might work. But they are not, they are very predictable. Now, what if we made it so the blue doors take 15 shots to open instead of 1? Would that make the game "harder"? Most enemies are about as dangerous as the blue doors (i.e. not at all), and I think that's the things that makes adding more health to them annoying. By having more enemies while reducing how much you receive from power-ups, you have more to handle and have to be more careful, without taking something away from the game. Anyway, if adding more enemies is too tedious, and I fully understand if it is, find some other solution or just leave it the way it is.

I know exactly how tedious it would be to add more enemies... I'm not even sure if I know how to repoint enemy data to a different bank. Or maybe that's what you meant with "who knows if I'll have enough free space left?" But it's a much better idea from a player perspective. Or actually, it depends. If you make it so an enemy can take two missiles instead of one, that's no big deal, even making it so a geemer can take two hits instead of just one can make a big difference in how you play. It depends on how strong/weak the enemy was to begin with. I just wouldn't want to see those enemies that interrupt the flow of the game. Some baddies are ok, but there shouldn't be several you have to defeat just to get into the next room.

If SM enemies were a bit smarter it might work. But they are not, they are very predictable. Now, what if we made it so the blue doors take 15 shots to open instead of 1? Would that make the game "harder"? Most enemies are about as dangerous as the blue doors (i.e. not at all), and I think that's the things that makes adding more health to them annoying. By having more enemies while reducing how much you receive from power-ups, you have more to handle and have to be more careful, without taking something away from the game. Anyway, if adding more enemies is too tedious, and I fully understand if it is, find some other solution or just leave it the way it is.

Opium

2008-10-26 10:26:42 am

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

I know exactly how tedious it would be to add more enemies... I'm not even sure if I know how to repoint enemy data to a different bank. Or maybe that's what you meant with "who knows if I'll have enough free space left?" But it's a much better idea from a player perspective. Or actually, it depends. If you make it so an enemy can take two missiles instead of one, that's no big deal, even making it so a geemer can take two hits instead of just one can make a big difference in how you play. It depends on how strong/weak the enemy was to begin with. I just wouldn't want to see those enemies that interrupt the flow of the game. Some baddies are ok, but there shouldn't be several you have to defeat just to get into the next room.

If SM enemies were a bit smarter it might work. But they are not, they are very predictable. Now, what if we made it so the blue doors take 15 shots to open instead of 1? Would that make the game "harder"? Most enemies are about as dangerous as the blue doors (i.e. not at all), and I think that's the things that makes adding more health to them annoying. By having more enemies while reducing how much you receive from power-ups, you have more to handle and have to be more careful, without taking something away from the game. Anyway, if adding more enemies is too tedious, and I fully understand if it is, find some other solution or just leave it the way it is.

I agree that making enemies require more shots is boring & pointless. I don't think it's so pointless to make enemies cause much more damage than they already do. Hell, many enemies are so harmless that I may just run into them and keep going than shoot them.

[quote="SleepingSeaweed"]
I know exactly how tedious it would be to add more enemies... I'm not even sure if I know how to repoint enemy data to a different bank. Or maybe that's what you meant with "who knows if I'll have enough free space left?" But it's a much better idea from a player perspective. Or actually, it depends. If you make it so an enemy can take two missiles instead of one, that's no big deal, even making it so a geemer can take two hits instead of just one can make a big difference in how you play. It depends on how strong/weak the enemy was to begin with. I just wouldn't want to see those enemies that interrupt the flow of the game. Some baddies are ok, but there shouldn't be several you have to defeat just to get into the next room.

If SM enemies were a bit smarter it might work. But they are not, they are very predictable. Now, what if we made it so the blue doors take 15 shots to open instead of 1? Would that make the game "harder"? Most enemies are about as dangerous as the blue doors (i.e. not at all), and I think that's the things that makes adding more health to them annoying. By having more enemies while reducing how much you receive from power-ups, you have more to handle and have to be more careful, without taking something away from the game. Anyway, if adding more enemies is too tedious, and I fully understand if it is, find some other solution or just leave it the way it is.
[/quote]

I agree that making enemies require more shots is boring & pointless.   I don't think it's so pointless to make enemies cause much more damage than they already do.  Hell, many enemies are so harmless that I may just run into them and keep going than shoot them.

MetroidMst

2008-10-26 02:26:39 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

A simpler way to add enemies is not use all the enemies in a given room, and then putting them in for the "hard" version. I'm sure that isn't as simple as it sounds.

SleepingSeaweed

2008-10-26 03:22:26 pm

Quote from MetroidMst:

A simpler way to add enemies is not use all the enemies in a given room, and then putting them in for the "hard" version. I'm sure that isn't as simple as it sounds.

Having more enemies than you use would save a LOT of time for making a hard version, or you just make the hard version first. It doesn't change the issue about space though. Btw, many rooms in wrecked ship (before fighting phantoon) have tonnes of those bug enemies in them that could be used as other enemies.

MetroidMst

2008-10-26 03:38:13 pm

Go ahead. Stare.

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Quote from MetroidMst:

A simpler way to add enemies is not use all the enemies in a given room, and then putting them in for the "hard" version. I'm sure that isn't as simple as it sounds.

Having more enemies than you use would save a LOT of time for making a hard version, or you just make the hard version first. It doesn't change the issue about space though. Btw, many rooms in wrecked ship (before fighting phantoon) have tonnes of those bug enemies in them that could be used as other enemies.

Very true. You can also change the "special" on some enemies at least to make them respawn. A cheap trick, but it could be very effective for some rooms. For instance if you have a room filled with 5 of those worms in your original version, change the special to 6100 (I think.) and all 5 will respawn when destroyed, making a stamped of slimy worms.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-10-27 04:53:23 pm

YAY TEXT

I started my next hack a long time ago, with the intention of making it "what noobsmasher should have been", after that, it evolved into "Mastersmasher: smashing the smasher's of Noobsmasher", but then it went through a huge change.
I started adding in some of the ideas I've always saved for my "perfect hack", which I would make if I ever learned ASM (whilst still saving the best ones), the game started becoming pretty damned good, it was new and fun, then I realised that it would actually make a better game WITHOUT the NS style timed sequences of complex tricks, and super hard enemies, it would be improved, whether you are a master gamer or not, when made easier. I'm keeping the hack hard so people don't run through blindly, but I've decided against doing so with means of tricks and glitches, I've decided to accompany the game with a Master Quest, much like that of Ocarina of Time, making each room its own trial.
This is my way of saying, the perfect difficulty depends on the gameplay style. Not all Super Metroid hacks are the same game, as shown by contrasting linearity and non-linearity, skill based, battle based and exploration based hacks, I personally am attempting to include all three in quite an interesting way...

Bioniclegenius

2008-10-27 06:00:35 pm

Fear Me! (Or else...)

Any heat runs in it? That would be annoying. Other than that, it's sounding really good!

Zhs2

Edit history:

Zhs2: 2008-10-27 09:36:43 pm

2008-10-27 06:14:10 pm

Yo.

What in the hell does that have anything to do with this thread, Caboose?

EDIT: Dang misunderstandable-ness...

Bioniclegenius

2008-10-27 06:21:30 pm

Fear Me! (Or else...)

Read the post right before mine, A.K.A. the post I was responding to. What is that picture supposed to be of? I know it's made of small faces, but I can't tell what the whole thing is. It's not quite clear.

Zhs2

Edit history:

Zhs2: 2008-10-27 09:37:09 pm

2008-10-27 06:22:07 pm

Yo.

Suddenly, facepalms. Thousands of 'em!

EDIT: Also, it's Captain Picard.

Bloodsonic

2008-10-27 07:29:55 pm

He mentioned his hack to discuss his change of difficulty over time to contribute to the 'hack difficulty discussion, not to turn this into his hack discussion thread, caboose.

BiggestSchnoz

2008-10-28 01:46:00 am

[BANNED]

(off subject)

Ha ha, lol!! I saved that image in my pictures folder on my computer, and the name "Caboose" seems to be sticking on Bioniclegenius. Lol!! laugh new

(no offense)