morph ball renders

2006-04-27 03:39:04 pm

Thanks guys.

I agree that the bomb blast looks a bit weird. I think that's a lighting / ambient level problem. The issue is that it's impossible to appreciate the full impact of a change without investing many hours in doing another render, so there's a lot of guesswork required. How some of the renders in the POV-Ray hall of fame were achieved I have absolutely no idea.

I'm not making a serious effort with the 'cradle, though - it was just a silly idea I had that I wanted to see before me. Although Nate has poisoned my brain now, because animating it would be something else - and if I used five vanilla morphballs (the glass causes mayhem), it would even be computationally feasible.

edit: SYMPB.

Chanoire

2006-04-27 03:41:25 pm

Lovely, and a cute concept. I look forward to the adjustments you mention, though; it did take me a moment to parse because of mainly seeing vertical bars connected to brighter vertical bars, with the surfaces of the morphballs harder to make out.

SABERinBLUE

2006-04-27 03:55:30 pm

Cook of the Sea

The three in the middle don't move a whole lot, right? Would the glass problems be in the lighting, or elsewhere?

DJGrenola

2006-04-27 04:13:07 pm

thanks, chan - point assimilated. I was a bit lazy and didn't bother texturing things properly so it's not really a balanced scene at all - minimal thought went into it. The floor could do with a texture as well and there ought to be a background because the horizon is distracting, I think.

@saber: I'd never even considered that I wouldn't have to render the whole scene to animate it, but you've just made me realise that this is in fact the case, unless I did something freaky like pulled back three balls to start with (ever tried that ?) POV-Ray has an option to only render the sections of the screen you're interested in. The presence of the spiderballs would still slow everything down a lot because things which are off-camera so to speak still affect the rest of the scene, because their reflections are still cast in objects, but just by rendering the bits that move I could save a lot of time.

I think the problem with the glass is that once a ray of light gets in there it just never escapes, and all those surfaces are reflective, so my CPU cracks and burns while drawing them. It's not just the glass either - it's the evil way the spiderballs are constructed from unions and intersections of primitives, but anyway.

I'm making no promises, but the idea of animation is strangely appealing. :) The raytracer has some stuff in it to make it a bit easier (you can make it pass a time variable to your scene and then compute positions and angles as a function of this variable) - but I've never tried it myself.

thanks, chan - point assimilated. I was a bit lazy and didn't bother texturing things properly so it's not really a balanced scene at all - minimal thought went into it. The floor could do with a texture as well and there ought to be a background because the horizon is distracting, I think.

@saber: I'd never even considered that I wouldn't have to render the whole scene to animate it, but you've just made me realise that this is in fact the case, unless I did something freaky like pulled back three balls to start with (ever tried that ?) POV-Ray has an option to only render the sections of the screen you're interested in. The presence of the spiderballs would still slow everything down a lot because things which are off-camera so to speak still affect the rest of the scene, because their reflections are still cast in objects, but just by rendering the bits that move I could save a lot of time.

I think the problem with the glass is that once a ray of light gets in there it just never escapes, and all those surfaces are reflective, so my CPU cracks and burns while drawing them. It's not just the glass either - it's the evil way the spiderballs are constructed from unions and intersections of primitives, but anyway.

I'm making no promises, but the idea of animation is strangely appealing. :) The raytracer has some stuff in it to make it a bit easier (you can make it pass a time variable to your scene and then compute positions and angles as a function of this variable) - but I've never tried it myself.

USBCD36

2006-04-27 05:54:41 pm

When you get it done to your satisfaction, will you post the source code?

DJGrenola

2006-04-28 03:01:29 pm

Quote from USBCD36:

When you get it done to your satisfaction, will you post the source code?

sure.

I decided to go back to basics and fix some of my misunderstandings regarding the way that the raytracer handles light. I learned some stuff I didn't know about using spotlights. I also think I've fixed the media problem which has plagued these projects since day one. Plus Saber demanded I change a bunch of stuff, so I'll be experimenting for a while yet.

I got this far though.

Whilst a lot of stuff needs altering still (in fact most likely I'll be rebuilding the scene from scratch), it does have a satisfying vaguely photorealistic quality now IMO.

nate

2006-04-28 03:18:05 pm

agreed. looking good.

Chanoire

2006-04-28 04:02:52 pm

One thing that strikes me is the shadows under the balls. Maybe it's just the angle of whatever other light source there is -- I know nothing about this stuff -- but with the shadows being so far behind them they're a little hard to see at first. Consequently they seem to be resting on the floor at first. I think part of the problem is that they're not very dark compared to the floor at that point; I wa having a hard time even determining which direction they were going. Actually, I still am. Another thing is that they don't seem to be shadowing the supports enough.

DJGrenola

2006-04-28 11:34:40 pm

Yeah, I think most of the issues you mention are caused by the fact that the scene was lit from behind the viewer (two spotlights above you and to your left and right).

This one has a spotlight directly above the cradle too, which I think definitely helps. I did something evil to the trim on the vanilla morph balls, so the red doesn't match that on the spiders, but it doesn't matter, because Saber wants me to replace the vertical bars with chains, wants me to hang the balls from two chains in a V as you'd get on a real cradle (rather than just one chain), and had various other concerns which I've temporarily forgotten. Sadly the soft area lights I've introduced have bumped the render time further, but just maybe I'm beginning to get the hang of this now. I'd like to hang the balls off something from the Metroid universe too - I might reprise my spiderball track from the furnace for that, and probably reuse that rock texture I came up with too.

Yeah, I think most of the issues you mention are caused by the fact that the scene was lit from behind the viewer (two spotlights above you and to your left and right).

This one has a spotlight directly above the cradle too, which I think definitely helps. I did something evil to the trim on the vanilla morph balls, so the red doesn't match that on the spiders, but it doesn't matter, because Saber wants me to replace the vertical bars with chains, wants me to hang the balls from two chains in a V as you'd get on a real cradle (rather than just one chain), and had various other concerns which I've temporarily forgotten. Sadly the soft area lights I've introduced have bumped the render time further, but just maybe I'm beginning to get the hang of this now. I'd like to hang the balls off something from the Metroid universe too - I might reprise my spiderball track from the furnace for that, and probably reuse that rock texture I came up with too.

[img]http://www.ali1548.ukshells.co.uk/cradle_rc3.jpg[/img]

Chanoire

2006-04-29 03:32:17 am

Grapple beams? =)

silent (((((echo)))))

2006-04-29 02:41:37 pm

Awesome morph ball renders DJGrenola. Good work! cookie

Quote:

Grapple beams? =)

very nice idea.

Huh, no dark ball and light ball? aiwebs_003

nn12000

2006-04-29 05:28:04 pm

Mister ...

Quote from silent (((((echo))))):

Huh, no dark ball and light ball? aiwebs_003

YOu know what they say, beggars can't be choosers. Eh, would be cool to see though.

Nice work on the MBR's. Looking really nice.

DJGrenola

2006-04-30 02:57:04 pm

Finished another one. I really need to do something about the light sources - this scene contains no fewer than 35 of them. However I'm really pleased with the changes I made to the sparks this time, in fact to the point where I may have to take my modified models and reprise the original four-ball scene.

Quote from Chanoire:

Grapple beams? =)

Yeah, that's a nice idea. Maybe if I got some cylinders and filled them with emitting media ... hm. I'd have to come up with a model for the grapple hooks as well, although that would probably not be too dastardly. The grapple beam would emit light too ... ;-[

I'm not sure what to try next - really Saber's and Chan's suggestions (chains, grapple beams) are mutually exclusive. I should probably work on something though because time spent not rendering something is time wasted given that I just sit here and watch the CPU do it.

Maybe I could try to model s_e's suggestion of something from Prime 2 as well. I think the dark ball would be easier than the light ball which is a shame actually because I think I prefer the way the light one looks.

Comments are as always welcome on the above scene. I'm wondering particularly whether the ratio of light intensity from the sides of the spiderballs versus light from the cracks is right. I'm not convinced it is, but I'll avoid poisoning your minds by expressing my specific concern.

Finished another one. I really need to do something about the light sources - this scene contains no fewer than 35 of them. However I'm really pleased with the changes I made to the sparks this time, in fact to the point where I may have to take my modified models and reprise the original four-ball scene.

[img]http://www.ali1548.ukshells.co.uk/cradle_rc4.jpg[/img]

[quote="Chanoire"]Grapple beams? =)[/quote]

Yeah, that's a nice idea. Maybe if I got some cylinders and filled them with emitting media ... hm. I'd have to come up with a model for the grapple hooks as well, although that would probably not be too dastardly. The grapple beam would emit light too ... ;-[

I'm not sure what to try next - really Saber's and Chan's suggestions (chains, grapple beams) are mutually exclusive. I should probably work on something though because time spent not rendering something is time wasted given that I just sit here and watch the CPU do it.

Maybe I could try to model s_e's suggestion of something from Prime 2 as well. I think the dark ball would be easier than the light ball which is a shame actually because I think I prefer the way the light one looks.

Comments are as always welcome on the above scene. I'm wondering particularly whether the ratio of light intensity from the sides of the spiderballs versus light from the cracks is right. I'm not convinced it is, but I'll avoid poisoning your minds by expressing my specific concern.

Chanoire

2006-04-30 03:38:29 pm

Now, now. Prejudicing our minds, not poisoning. Not that I can help there; I've never seen the originals of any of those except presumably the outermost ones.

Saber's going for the design source of the original executive toy, I'm going for the design source of the game. I guess it's up to you which is more important. ;) Of course, presumably the grapple wouldn't normally be used with a morphball anyway, and it would make the bomb part unnecessary (although in retrospect that might not work anyway since a bomb would perhaps also push the other balls a bit to the left). I don't know what the hooks look like in Prime; I was just visualizing the blocks in SM. I wonder if grapple beams would emit enough light for you to be able to reduce or eliminate the lightsources other than the balls themselves?

Also, I assume you have some reason for ordering them as you do, but if it's not a particularly strong one I'd switch the second and third from the left so you don't have two gold-tone ones adjacent. Though then you would have the gold/green and red/black ones adjacent and I can see where their glass bits could interact painfully, from what you said about rays tending to get trapped in them.

Now, now.  Prejudicing our minds, not poisoning.  Not that I can help there; I've never seen the originals of any of those except presumably the outermost ones.

Saber's going for the design source of the original executive toy, I'm going for the design source of the game.  I guess it's up to you which is more important. ;)  Of course, presumably the grapple wouldn't normally be used with a morphball anyway, and it would make the bomb part unnecessary (although in retrospect that might not work anyway since a bomb would perhaps also push the other balls a bit to the left).  I don't know what the hooks look like in Prime; I was just visualizing the blocks in SM.  I wonder if grapple beams would emit enough light for you to be able to reduce or eliminate the lightsources other than the balls themselves?

Also, I assume you have some reason for ordering them as you do, but if it's not a particularly strong one I'd switch the second and third from the left so you don't have two gold-tone ones adjacent.  Though then you would have the gold/green and red/black ones adjacent and I can see where their glass bits could interact painfully, from what you said about rays tending to get trapped in them.

nn12000

2006-04-30 11:16:14 pm

Mister ...

I like the new one, but here's an Idea, but this is just me. How about switching the Spider ball with the Gravity spiderball, that way it would look more symmetrical? That's me though, so don't think you have to do it.

DJGrenola

2006-05-01 01:28:03 am

Quote from Chanoire:

Also, I assume you have some reason for ordering them as you do, but if it's not a particularly strong one I'd switch the second and third from the left so you don't have two gold-tone ones adjacent. Though then you would have the gold/green and red/black ones adjacent and I can see where their glass bits could interact painfully, from what you said about rays tending to get trapped in them.

Quote from nn12000:

I like the new one, but here's an Idea, but this is just me. How about switching the Spider ball with the Gravity spiderball, that way it would look more symmetrical? That's me though, so don't think you have to do it.

nn12000, did you not read chan's post, or was it a desperate attempt to add one to your post count ? Or is this a wind-up ? Or what ? I'm mystified. :P

arkarian

2006-05-01 03:39:53 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Chanoire:

[...] I'd switch the second and third from the left so you don't have two gold-tone ones adjacent. Though then you would have the gold/green and red/black ones adjacent and I can see where their glass bits could interact painfully, from what you said about rays tending to get trapped in them.

To solve that problem, why not just move the leftmost one to in between the Gravity Suit Ball and the Phazon Suit Ball? No glass issues there.

Izo

2006-05-01 03:41:56 pm

soaking through

Because I think the point is to have the two default ones on the outside.

DJGrenola

2006-05-01 03:46:08 pm

Don't read anything into the current order - they just appear in whatever order I threw them into the file. :P

arkarian

2006-05-01 04:06:30 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from Izo:

Because I think the point is to have the two default ones on the outside.

Also, I never looked at the two outside balls as being the same (though DJ has confirmed that he did intend for them to be the same), as one could easily be the regular Morph Ball, with the other being Varia.

nn12000

2006-05-01 06:51:44 pm

Mister ...

Quote from DJGrenola:

Quote from nn12000:

I like the new one, but here's an Idea, but this is just me. How about switching the Spider ball with the Gravity spiderball, that way it would look more symmetrical? That's me though, so don't think you have to do it.

nn12000, did you not read chan's post, or was it a desperate attempt to add one to your post count ? Or is this a wind-up ? Or what ? I'm mystified. :P

Umm, I haven't really tried to work on Post Counts, if I was, I'd be spamming every thread, just saying, but I'm better than that.

And, TBH, I don't think I did. I wasn't complaining, I was just saying that's how I'd think it'd look better. But honestly, it's fine the way it is. I was just posting an opinion. It's not that big of a deal. It's seriously fine the way it is.

Izo

2006-05-02 12:45:58 pm

soaking through

Lmfao. Your ability to not get things astounds me.

SAL

2006-05-02 03:57:00 pm

whoa the string in the gap of the morph ball reminds me of yoyos.

Metatroid

(user is banned)

2006-05-02 08:34:19 pm

Oh my...
Whaaaa...
Holy...

I give up. Shocked

Words cannot describe the sheer awesomeness of these. Amazing. Keep up the very, very, very good work. :-D

nn12000

2006-05-02 09:17:56 pm

Mister ...

Quote from Izo:

Lmfao. Your ability to not get things astounds me.

Geese. I don't get a lot of things. I don't get out of my house enough. See the second quote in my sig. ... Ok, I blame school more than society, but still.