Metroids ruled SR-388?

2007-11-26 09:55:02 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

All right, we all know that the homeworld of Metroids is the delightful planet of SR388, and Fusion tells us that they dominated the planet, keeping the dangerous X-parasite in check.

But upon arriving on the planet, there are only 39 Metroids on the planet all of which have evolved (or are evolving) past the life-sucking stage of their life. Am I the only one that finds this a bit odd? Doesn't there seem like we're missing part of the story here or something?

Thread title:

rekameohs

2007-11-26 10:05:49 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Story answer: Pirates might have taken a lot of the troids for their raids, and their bases on Zebes, Tallon IV, Aether, their Homeworld, etc. Many had already died cause of samus, and only a few remained. The queen had to be destroyed so that the species could be destroyed once and for all, but of course that failed thanks to samus' mothering instincts.

Real answer: Not enough room on the game cart for more.

Papa Brain

2007-11-26 10:57:49 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

Quote from rekameohs:

Story answer: Pirates might have taken a lot of the troids for their raids, and their bases on Zebes, Tallon IV, Aether, their Homeworld, etc. Many had already died cause of samus, and only a few remained. The queen had to be destroyed so that the species could be destroyed once and for all, but of course that failed thanks to samus' mothering instincts.

Real answer: Not enough room on the game cart for more.

Yeah, that is true, Pirates could have been going nuts on SR-388 for their Metroids (I always assumed that their Metroids came from the original stock they stole off of the space frigate pre-ZM, and then the breeding with Gamma Rays). But still even if the Space Pirates did frequent the planet, there was still an entire planet occupied by Metroids... that's an awful lot of space to be the dominating species. And by the beginning of M2, I would think that Samus and the GF would have to know that the Pirates' Metroid supply was depleted. So we already know that there is some part of the story missing, the Space Pirates' Metroid extermination. I mean, at the end of MP3, only Phazon is known to be gone from the Galaxy, not Metroids. I'm just still wondering just how the GF and/or Samus eradicated the non-hive Metroids (or just why there are so few).

Also, yeah, I do know that they were under a limit with the old GB carts, but it's still surprising that they didn't add any more story into the Game Manual or anything. The NES Metroid manual had a nice deal of story in it, even if there wasn't any in the actual game. I suppose they weren't into story as much back in the day.

[quote="rekameohs"]
Story answer: Pirates might have taken a lot of the troids for their raids, and their bases on Zebes, Tallon IV, Aether, their Homeworld, etc. Many had already died cause of samus, and only a few remained. The queen had to be destroyed so that the species could be destroyed once and for all, but of course that failed thanks to samus' mothering instincts.

Real answer: Not enough room on the game cart for more.
[/quote]

Yeah, that is true, Pirates could have been going nuts on SR-388 for their Metroids (I always assumed that their Metroids came from the original stock they stole off of the space frigate pre-ZM, and then the breeding with Gamma Rays).  But still even if the Space Pirates did frequent the planet, there was still an entire planet occupied by Metroids... that's an awful lot of space to be the dominating species.  And by the beginning of M2, I would think that Samus and the GF would [i]have to[/i] know that the Pirates' Metroid supply was depleted.  So we already know that there is some part of the story missing, the Space Pirates' Metroid extermination.  I mean, at the end of MP3, only Phazon is known to be gone from the Galaxy, not Metroids.  I'm just still wondering just how the GF and/or Samus eradicated the non-hive Metroids (or just why there are so few).

Also, yeah, I do know that they were under a limit with the old GB carts, but it's still surprising that they didn't add any more story into the Game Manual or anything.  The NES Metroid manual had a nice deal of story in it, even if there wasn't any in the actual game.  I suppose they weren't into story as much back in the day.

LDreamNinja

2007-11-29 10:44:55 pm

I always expllained it to myself by thinking that powerfull predators like the metroids needed LOTS of space, The "metroids were made by the chozo" makes M2 make a lot more sense, what with the queen being in a high tech area, you could say the metroids didn't spread far from where they were made.

Papa Brain

2007-11-30 08:54:44 am

Metroids Are Jerks

That is true. I totally agree with you on the "stay where they began"/close-to-the-queen deal. That does make sense. And as well, the biggest predators are usually lower in numbers than other species (i.e. Lions compared to Gazelles). But still, the X-parasites seem so out of control that it seem the Metroids should have been all over the planet, even if in few numbers, to keep the X population down.

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the GF used some sort of planet-wide biological weapon (or something of the sort) that killed all the leftover surface Metroids, leaving only the Hive Metroids safe from imminent doom. It is possible to believe that the Pirates could have set up a base somewhere solely for catching Metroids, which could have lowered the Metroid population in areas outside of the Hive. I'm not a fan of this idea, (They probably just beta-rayed their original Metroid they stole into all the other Metroids we see in MP games) but it's entirely possible. Any other ideas?

That is true.  I totally agree with you on the "stay where they began"/close-to-the-queen deal.  That does make sense.  And as well, the biggest predators are usually lower in numbers than other species (i.e. Lions compared to Gazelles).  But still, the X-parasites seem so out of control that it seem the Metroids should have been all over the planet, even if in few numbers, to keep the X population down.

The only thing that makes sense to me is if the GF used some sort of planet-wide biological weapon (or something of the sort) that killed all the leftover surface Metroids, leaving only the Hive Metroids safe from imminent doom.  It is possible to believe that the Pirates could have set up a base somewhere solely for catching Metroids, which could have lowered the Metroid population in areas outside of the Hive.  I'm not a fan of this idea, (They probably just beta-rayed their original Metroid they stole into all the other Metroids we see in MP games) but it's entirely possible.  Any other ideas?

uNsane

2007-11-30 05:11:43 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Who is to say that the X parasites actually spread all over SR-388? It's possible that either they had themselves only occupied the future Metroid Hive, or that the Chozo had eradicated them through other means, or that the Metroids had contained their threat to that area.

Papa Brain

2007-12-01 11:26:11 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

[quote=Metroid Fusion Instruction Manual]X seem to have originated on SR388, which is also home to their sole predator, the Metroids. Since Samus Aran exterminated the Metroid on SR388, the X have overrun and infected most of the life-forms on the planet.

...

At some point in the past, the X parasites, which posses a terrible propagation power, threatened to overwhelm the ecosystem of their home world SR388 with their vast numbers. Something was needed to check this impending disaster. That “something” came in the form of the Metroids.[/quote]

Well, this is what makes me think that the X had overrun the whole planet. You do have a point; it is possible that the Metroids had more or less eradicated the X-parasites all over the planet and left only a few alive to harvest near the hive. But it is equally, if not more probable that (considering the "impending disaster" the X posed to SR388) the X would flee from their sole predator as much as possible, making planet-wide Metroid habitation necessary.

I just think we need a better explanation on this whole Metroid 2 thing.

[quote=Metroid Fusion Instruction Manual]X seem to have originated on SR388, which is also home to their sole predator, the Metroids.  Since Samus Aran exterminated the Metroid on SR388, the X have overrun and infected most of the life-forms on the planet.

...

At some point in the past, the X parasites, which posses a terrible propagation power, threatened to overwhelm the ecosystem of their home world SR388 with their vast numbers. Something was needed to check this impending disaster. That “something” came in the form of the Metroids.[/quote]

Well, this is what makes me think that the X had overrun the whole planet.  You do have a point; it is possible that the Metroids had more or less eradicated the X-parasites all over the planet and left only a few alive to harvest near the hive.  But it is equally, if not more probable that (considering the "impending disaster" the X posed to SR388) the X would flee from their sole predator as much as possible, making planet-wide Metroid habitation necessary.

I just think we need a better explanation on this whole Metroid 2 thing.

Gamma_Metroid

2007-12-19 07:18:56 pm

Wait, let's think back to the beginning of Fusion, where the GF was just finding out about the X. They were researching all over the planet for what, 200 years? But they didn't know about the X. This must mean that there either weren't many, or they were deep beneath the planet's surface. In M2, Samus only goes about a mile into the planet, at the deepest, so that rules out the latter. Logically, if there weren't many X parasites, the Chozo would have toned down the number of Metroids on the planet. Thus, 39 Metroids. And you can't forget the fact that 9 more Metroids are hatched near the end of the game.

JaggerG

2007-12-19 07:30:17 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

...Since Samus only goes a mile beneath the surface of the planet, that rules out X being any deeper than that? O_o Some logic is missing there, and I'm pretty sure there's no attachment this time.

Gamma_Metroid

2007-12-19 08:01:42 pm

If she only goes about a mile beneath the surface, and there are no Metroids below that point...wait a minute...that would mean that are more X down there. Okay, so that's another possible explanation.

Papa Brain

2007-12-19 09:16:49 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

Quote from Gamma_Metroid:

Wait, let's think back to the beginning of Fusion, where the GF was just finding out about the X. They were researching all over the planet for what, 200 years? But they didn't know about the X. This must mean that there either weren't many, or they were deep beneath the planet's surface. In M2, Samus only goes about a mile into the planet, at the deepest, so that rules out the latter. Logically, if there weren't many X parasites, the Chozo would have toned down the number of Metroids on the planet. Thus, 39 Metroids. And you can't forget the fact that 9 more Metroids are hatched near the end of the game.
...
If she only goes about a mile beneath the surface, and there are no Metroids below that point...wait a minute...that would mean that are more X down there. Okay, so that's another possible explanation.

... No? Can I just leave it at that?

First off, I have no idea where you got the idea that the GF was "researching all over the planet for... 200 years," but that would be completely wrong. Fusion takes place approx. four years after the events of M2-SM. This means within the four years that Metroids had been eradicated from the surface of SR388, the Galactic Federation had to hire Biological Space Laboratories to construct/move a space station to orbit SR388 and develop their research enough to create a sufficient replica of the planet. They hired Samus herself to begin the planetary walks with scientists. Eventually this led Samus into more dangerous territories where larger, more dangerous beings would live. These are creatures that would be prime victims of the X parasite. No one knows where they began multiplying first, or when fear of the Metroids died down, urging them to spread. There's no point to think that they would dwell deep underground where there is hardly any life (i.e. below the Metroid Hive). That should lend some sort of an idea to time issues of the X.

As for the number of Metroid the Chozo would have allowed... there is not a shred of evidence that states the Chozo still regulated the Metroid population on SR388 by the time of Samus's arrival in M2. On the contrary, it seems that their ruins have been abandoned for years, thus the population threshold of the Metroids is not hindered in any way. I still stand by my statements that less that 50 Metroids cannot "rule" a planet, and that there must be some other factor in the minute population of the largest predator on SR388.

[quote="Gamma_Metroid"]Wait, let's think back to the beginning of Fusion, where the GF was just finding out about the X.  They were researching all over the planet for what, 200 years?  But they didn't know about the X.  This must mean that there either weren't many, or they were deep beneath the planet's surface.  In M2, Samus only goes about a mile into the planet, at the deepest, so that rules out the latter.  Logically, if there weren't many X parasites, the Chozo would have toned down the number of Metroids on the planet.  Thus, 39 Metroids.  And you can't forget the fact that 9 more Metroids are hatched near the end of the game.
...
If she only goes about a mile beneath the surface, and there are no Metroids below that point...wait a minute...that would mean that are more X down there.  Okay, so that's another possible explanation.[/quote]

... No?  Can I just leave it at that?

First off, I have no idea where you got the idea that the GF was "researching all over the planet for... 200 years,"  but that would be completely wrong.  Fusion takes place approx. [i]four[/i] years after the events of M2-SM.  This means within the four years that Metroids had been eradicated from the surface of SR388, the Galactic Federation had to hire Biological Space Laboratories to construct/move a space station to orbit SR388 and develop their research enough to create a sufficient replica of the planet.  They hired Samus herself to begin the planetary walks with scientists.  Eventually this led Samus into more dangerous territories where larger, more dangerous beings would live.  These are creatures that would be prime victims of the X parasite.  No one knows where they began multiplying first, or when fear of the Metroids died down, urging them to spread.  There's no point to think that they would dwell deep underground where there is hardly any life (i.e. below the Metroid Hive).  That should lend some sort of an idea to time issues of the X.

As for the number of Metroid the Chozo would have allowed... there is not a shred of evidence that states the Chozo still regulated the Metroid population on SR388 by the time of Samus's arrival in M2.  On the contrary, it seems that their ruins have been abandoned for years, thus the population threshold of the Metroids is not hindered in any way.  I still stand by my statements that less that 50 Metroids cannot "rule" a planet, and that there must be some other factor in the minute population of the largest predator on SR388.

JaggerG

2007-12-19 09:58:52 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Here's a theory: The "Hive"/civilization had only the one entrance and the one exit leading to the surface. This means the planet could quite probably be bigger than the one (massive) tunnel. As studies of various ecosystems have proven, some animals tend to keep closer to the core of the planet since it's not as cold. Given that Metroids are especially susceptible to coldness, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Metroids simply chose not to leave the tunnel and spread out, due to the frigid temperature of the surface. That, or they may have tried to spread out, but eventually died, or just came back because it's too cold. This means that, presumably, any X that may exist outside the hive in other areas are still plentiful. Consider that Samus simply ventured for species in that tunnel, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one trip after four years may yield one X-infected subject. The X just started invading the territory at the time.

Note that the in-game dialogue suggests that it had been the X from the hornoad and the X infecting Samus' suit that had spread throughout the station. They didn't simply capture hundreds of enemies that had X for four years, and then suddenly Samus herself is the first victim.

Here's a theory: The "Hive"/civilization had only the one entrance and the one exit leading to the surface. This means the planet could quite probably be bigger than the one (massive) tunnel. As studies of various ecosystems have proven, some animals tend to keep closer to the core of the planet since it's not as cold. Given that Metroids are especially susceptible to coldness, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that the Metroids simply chose not to leave the tunnel and spread out, due to the frigid temperature of the surface. That, or they may have tried to spread out, but eventually died, or just came back because it's too cold. This means that, presumably, any X that may exist outside the hive in other areas are still plentiful. Consider that Samus simply ventured for species in that tunnel, it's perfectly reasonable to assume that one trip after four years may yield one X-infected subject. The X just started invading the territory at the time.

Note that the in-game dialogue suggests that it had been the X from the hornoad and the X infecting Samus' suit that had spread throughout the station. They didn't simply capture hundreds of enemies that had X for four years, and then suddenly Samus herself is the first victim.

Papa Brain

2007-12-20 11:42:57 am

Metroids Are Jerks

The only problem with that theory is that there is no evidence indicating that the surface of SR388 is frigid. And it doesn't make much sense that the Chozo would want to deploy their creation onto the surface of SR388 knowing that the Metroids' only weakness is extremely low temperatures.

There is a sort of ecological conversation between the predatory patterns of the X and Metroids that is entirely unknown to us, and thus makes predicting patterns of growth difficult. Taking into consideration that after four (likely less) years of research of the planet from BSL, there was no real problem until Samus uncovered the X seems to indicate that the X became much more prolific on BSL than they ever were on SR388. Or perhaps with the strength of the SA-X in the species' hands, they felt less restriction to be so fearful. It seems this is true because the threat of the X within the timespan of four years should have been much more dangerous on the surface of SR388 as opposed to the short timespan of their rule over the BSL.

Whoo... that was a mouthful...

The only problem with that theory is that there is no evidence indicating that the surface of SR388 is frigid.  And it doesn't make much sense that the Chozo would want to deploy their creation onto the surface of SR388 knowing that the Metroids' only weakness is extremely low temperatures.

There is a sort of ecological conversation between the predatory patterns of the X and Metroids that is entirely unknown to us, and thus makes predicting patterns of growth difficult.  Taking into consideration that after four (likely less) years of research of the planet from BSL, there was no real problem until Samus uncovered the X seems to indicate that the X became much more prolific on BSL than they ever were on SR388.  Or perhaps with the strength of the SA-X in the species' hands, they felt less restriction to be so fearful.  It seems this is true because the threat of the X within the timespan of four years should have been much more dangerous on the surface of SR388 as opposed to the short timespan of their rule over the BSL.

Whoo... that was a mouthful...

JaggerG

2007-12-20 05:35:18 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

There's no evidence to indicate that the surface of SR388 is inhabitable. Also, as far as I can tell, I haven't seen the Chozo deploying the metroids to the surface. Ever. I haven't read much of the manga, but in every game, there hasn't been a single case that involved metroids breeding on the surface. There's just the hatchling spending about a minute up there chasing Samus into her ship.

As for the lack of evolution, I attribute that to the fact that there are no HORRIFIC AND OVERLY MONSTROUS LIFEFORMS on SR388. Seriously, dude, not everything evolves into canon-carrying 8ft tall beasts of mass destruction. Do you remember the last time a dinosaur has evolved to be so huge on Earth? It just doesn't happen like that, especially not in the span of four years.

And it's only natural that the X is gonna spread quicker on BSL. There are more lifeforms in such a compact area, and the fear of metroids has already been quelled. Do you really think the X are just sitting there carrying thermal telescopes, anticipating the eradication of the metroids? No, they're just gonna stay clear of the nest as best they can. Over four years, they're steadily going to inch into the ruins.

There's no evidence to indicate that the surface of SR388 is inhabitable. Also, as far as I can tell, I haven't seen the Chozo deploying the metroids to the surface. Ever. I haven't read much of the manga, but in every game, there hasn't been a single case that involved metroids breeding on the surface. There's just the hatchling spending about a minute up there chasing Samus into her ship.

As for the lack of evolution, I attribute that to the fact that there are no HORRIFIC AND OVERLY MONSTROUS LIFEFORMS on SR388. Seriously, dude, not everything evolves into canon-carrying 8ft tall beasts of mass destruction. Do you remember the last time a dinosaur has evolved to be so huge on Earth? It just doesn't happen like that, especially not in the span of four years.

And it's only natural that the X is gonna spread quicker on BSL. There are more lifeforms in such a compact area, and the fear of metroids has already been quelled. Do you really think the X are just sitting there carrying thermal telescopes, anticipating the eradication of the metroids? No, they're just gonna stay clear of the nest as best they can. Over four years, they're steadily going to inch into the ruins.

Papa Brain

2007-12-20 08:48:19 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

Quote from JaggerG:

There's no evidence to indicate that the surface of SR388 is inhabitable.

That's what I was saying... did you mean habitable?

Quote from JaggerG:

Also, as far as I can tell, I haven't seen the Chozo deploying the metroids to the surface. Ever. I haven't read much of the manga, but in every game, there hasn't been a single case that involved metroids breeding on the surface. There's just the hatchling spending about a minute up there chasing Samus into her ship.

I don't recall the Chozo ever deploying Metroids in any game. We have no idea about when the Chozo left (i.e. abondoned/were forced to flee from) SR388. It is likely that the Hive was developed after the Chozo had left, and the Queen began to breed on her own in the safety of their underground Hive. Space Pirates bred Metroids by means of Mitosis using Beta Rays in Tourian (ZM & SM), they likely continued these practices in the Phazon mines, and somehow developed a phazon-based Infant-Metroid maker on Aether (which is in their above-ground base). Other than that, the GF were super-breeding Metroids by some unknown means on BSL, and again, I haven't played MP3, so I'm unsure about that whole scenario.

Quote from JaggerG:

As for the lack of evolution, I attribute that to the fact that there are no HORRIFIC AND OVERLY MONSTROUS LIFEFORMS on SR388. Seriously, dude, not everything evolves into canon-carrying 8ft tall beasts of mass destruction. Do you remember the last time a dinosaur has evolved to be so huge on Earth? It just doesn't happen like that, especially not in the span of four years.

Yeah, that whole ecological spiel was talking about the ecosystem transition from whenever the Chozo introduced the X parasites and how the X and Metroids countered one another back then. But honestly, we don't know anything about the surface of SR388. I'm not saying that the planet is full of biological weapons like BSL, but I would think that the X would take advantage of every dangerous and not so dangerous lifeform they could within four years. With the X, it isn't a matter of evolution, it is simply a matter of imitation, and as far as creatures of SR388 go, we can only make educated guesses of the animal kingdom of the planet.

Quote from JaggerG:

And it's only natural that the X is gonna spread quicker on BSL. There are more lifeforms in such a compact area, and the fear of metroids has already been quelled. Do you really think the X are just sitting there carrying thermal telescopes, anticipating the eradication of the metroids? No, they're just gonna stay clear of the nest as best they can. Over four years, they're steadily going to inch into the ruins.

I totally agree on the X keeping their distance from the Hive entrance and stuff. Another thing that you made me remember (the telescope thing) is that the X can learn information from the lifeforms they mimic, so granted killing their host scientists of BSL gave them the information that there were basically no boundaries to their growth limits on the station. The information received from lowly creatures on SR388 could only tell them whether the creature had seen a Metroid or not... which still isn't reassuring since not seeing a Metroid doesn't mean they don't exist.

All in all, I still believe that there evidence to suggest that the Metroids should have been more populous on SR388 than they were in M2.

[quote="JaggerG"]
There's no evidence to indicate that the surface of SR388 is inhabitable.[/quote]

That's what I was saying... did you mean habitable?

[quote="JaggerG"]Also, as far as I can tell, I haven't seen the Chozo deploying the metroids to the surface. Ever. I haven't read much of the manga, but in every game, there hasn't been a single case that involved metroids breeding on the surface. There's just the hatchling spending about a minute up there chasing Samus into her ship.[/quote]

I don't recall the Chozo ever deploying Metroids in any game.  We have no idea about when the Chozo left (i.e. abondoned/were forced to flee from) SR388.  It is likely that the Hive was developed after the Chozo had left, and the Queen began to breed on her own in the safety of their underground Hive.  Space Pirates bred Metroids by means of Mitosis using Beta Rays in Tourian (ZM & SM), they likely continued these practices in the Phazon mines, and somehow developed a phazon-based Infant-Metroid maker on Aether (which is in their above-ground base).  Other than that, the GF were super-breeding Metroids by some unknown means on BSL, and again, I haven't played MP3, so I'm unsure about that whole scenario.

[quote="JaggerG"]As for the lack of evolution, I attribute that to the fact that there are no HORRIFIC AND OVERLY MONSTROUS LIFEFORMS on SR388. Seriously, dude, not everything evolves into canon-carrying 8ft tall beasts of mass destruction. Do you remember the last time a dinosaur has evolved to be so huge on Earth? It just doesn't happen like that, especially not in the span of four years.[/quote]

Yeah, that whole ecological spiel was talking about the ecosystem transition from whenever the Chozo introduced the X parasites and how the X and Metroids countered one another back then.  But honestly, we don't know anything about the surface of SR388.  I'm not saying that the planet is full of biological weapons like BSL, but I would think that the X would take advantage of every dangerous and not so dangerous lifeform they could within four years.  With the X, it isn't a matter of evolution, it is simply a matter of imitation, and as far as creatures of SR388 go, we can only make educated guesses of the animal kingdom of the planet.

[quote="JaggerG"]And it's only natural that the X is gonna spread quicker on BSL. There are more lifeforms in such a compact area, and the fear of metroids has already been quelled. Do you really think the X are just sitting there carrying thermal telescopes, anticipating the eradication of the metroids? No, they're just gonna stay clear of the nest as best they can. Over four years, they're steadily going to inch into the ruins.[/quote]

I totally agree on the X keeping their distance from the Hive entrance and stuff.  Another thing that you made me remember (the telescope thing) is that the X can learn information from the lifeforms they mimic, so granted killing their host scientists of BSL gave them the information that there were basically no boundaries to their growth limits on the station.  The information received from lowly creatures on SR388 could only tell them whether the creature had seen a Metroid or not... which still isn't reassuring since not seeing a Metroid doesn't mean they don't exist.

All in all, I still believe that there evidence to suggest that the Metroids should have been more populous on SR388 than they were in M2.

TJF588

2008-01-12 04:45:50 am

once GameFAQs, now Twitch

Why isn't this sort of thing stickied?

A very interesting conversation. My memory sucks (and my familiarity of the Metroid series sucks more), but did the B.S.L station have environs from SR388 or just a comprehensive "something for everything" setup?

To explain the lack of Metroid and the unknowness of X, it could have been a matter of Metroids vnturing out, either from the main hive or a 'station' hive, to go out and nosh on X. The X would try to flee, but the 'roids would chase after them. Now, if they were able to get away about as well as the Metroids could hunt them down, then you might expect a balanced, planet-spread setup. However, if the Metroids could hunt them much better than they could run, they (the Mets) would eventually retreat toward the main hive, given that they'd hunted down all the X outside of whatever locus they sustained at any one point in time. After a while, the X would be in such low numbers (and likely in hiding, especially if the Metroids have a keen sense(s) to detect them) that the Metroid population would wither down (lack of 'food'), and thus we're left with one hive that can handle any adventurous X that dare make itself not-unknown to the hive's hungry inhabitants.

After the Metroids are gone, the X eventually come out of hiding and start enlarging their numbers. As was stated with their ability to retain their host's information, determining the non-threat might've taken some time.

Why isn't this sort of thing stickied?

A very interesting conversation.  My memory sucks (and my familiarity of the Metroid series sucks more), but did the B.S.L station have environs from SR388 or just a comprehensive "something for everything" setup?

To explain the lack of Metroid and the unknowness of X, it could have been a matter of Metroids vnturing out, either from the main hive or a 'station' hive, to go out and nosh on X.  The X would try to flee, but the 'roids would chase after them.  Now, if they were able to get away about as well as the Metroids could hunt them down, then you might expect a balanced, planet-spread setup.  However, if the Metroids could hunt them much better than they could run, they (the Mets) would eventually retreat toward the main hive, given that they'd hunted down all the X outside of whatever locus they sustained at any one point in time.  After a while, the X would be in such low numbers (and likely in hiding, especially if the Metroids have a keen sense(s) to detect them) that the Metroid population would wither down (lack of 'food'), and thus we're left with one hive that can handle any adventurous X that dare make itself not-unknown to the hive's hungry inhabitants.

After the Metroids are gone, the X eventually come out of hiding and start enlarging their numbers. As was stated with their ability to retain their host's information, determining the non-threat might've taken some time.

Gamma_Metroid

2008-01-12 10:12:14 am

Maybe there were more X elsewhere (Zebes, Tallon IV, etc.), and the Chozo brought their Metroids from the hive in M2 to the other planets. The fact that there are no X there when Samus gets there is because the Metroids, and Metroid Prime on Tallon IV, have brought their (the X's) numbers down to nothing, or there are so few that Samus doesn't happen to come upon them during her adventures.

Papa Brain

2008-01-12 11:50:02 am

Metroids Are Jerks

Quote from TJF588:

...if the Metroids could hunt [the X] much better than they could run, they (the Mets) would eventually retreat toward the main hive, given that they'd hunted down all the X outside of whatever locus they sustained at any one point in time. After a while, the X would be in such low numbers (and likely in hiding, especially if the Metroids have a keen sense(s) to detect them) that the Metroid population would wither down (lack of 'food'), and thus we're left with one hive that can handle any adventurous X that dare make itself not-unknown to the hive's hungry inhabitants.

After the Metroids are gone, the X eventually come out of hiding and start enlarging their numbers. As was stated with their ability to retain their host's information, determining the non-threat might've taken some time.

Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate. And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again. And I suppose we can't forget about the other lifeforms on the planet the Metroids could eat. Seriously, we have no idea how long the planet has been working out this balance between the two species, both have to survive somehow. It's probably a balance; I could easily understand the Metroids allowing their prey to survive enough to create a steady food chain. I mean, that's how our animal kingdom works, but we are talking about aliens...

Quote from Gamma_Metroid:

Maybe there were more X elsewhere (Zebes, Tallon IV, etc.), and the Chozo brought their Metroids from the hive in M2 to the other planets. The fact that there are no X there when Samus gets there is because the Metroids, and Metroid Prime on Tallon IV, have brought their (the X's) numbers down to nothing, or there are so few that Samus doesn't happen to come upon them during her adventures.

No. There are no X-Parasites anywhere but SR388. There is no evidence to suggest that the Chozo used Metroids on Tallon IV or Zebes.

[quote="TJF588"]
...if the Metroids could hunt [the X] much better than they could run, they (the Mets) would eventually retreat toward the main hive, given that they'd hunted down all the X outside of whatever locus they sustained at any one point in time.  After a while, the X would be in such low numbers (and likely in hiding, especially if the Metroids have a keen sense(s) to detect them) that the Metroid population would wither down (lack of 'food'), and thus we're left with one hive that can handle any adventurous X that dare make itself not-unknown to the hive's hungry inhabitants.

After the Metroids are gone, the X eventually come out of hiding and start enlarging their numbers. As was stated with their ability to retain their host's information, determining the non-threat might've taken some time.
[/quote]

Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate.  And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again.  And I suppose we can't forget about the other lifeforms on the planet the Metroids could eat.  Seriously, we have no idea how long the planet has been working out this balance between the two species, both have to survive somehow.  It's probably a balance; I could easily understand the Metroids allowing their prey to survive enough to create a steady food chain.  I mean, that's how our animal kingdom works, but we are talking about aliens...

[quote="Gamma_Metroid"]
Maybe there were more X elsewhere (Zebes, Tallon IV, etc.), and the Chozo brought their Metroids from the hive in M2 to the other planets.  The fact that there are no X there when Samus gets there is because the Metroids, and Metroid Prime on Tallon IV, have brought their (the X's) numbers down to nothing, or there are so few that Samus doesn't happen to come upon them during her adventures.[/quote]

No.  There are no X-Parasites anywhere but SR388.  There is no evidence to suggest that the Chozo used Metroids on Tallon IV or Zebes.

Gu3st

2008-01-12 10:03:21 pm

Jagger ftw

i've never beated fusion, but if i remember correctly, samus was attacked by x in sr 388?

nn12000

2008-01-13 12:31:48 am

Mister ...

Yes. In the beginning of Fusion, Samus gets attacked by the X parasitic life-form. She is rushed to the GF, is infused with Metroid DNA, etc, game begins. Late in your Adventure, you come across a top-secret lab full of Metroids. SA-X appears, lab gets detached, explodes into a planted (SR-388), Samus runs off, discovers Federation Secret (as told by Adam) about their interest in the X, sends ship off into collision course with SR-388, kills an Omega Metroid, flies off far away, never to be heard from again, BSL crashes into SR-388, all Metroids and X parasites die, The End.

My question is this: I understand the limitations of 2-D gaming. But in regards of ROS, if there was a Third Dimension, that would give a whole new dimension for Metroids to hide in, allowing more than just the 39 original Metroids from inhabiting the planet, and allowing more of the planet to be accessed. So, without that 3rd Dimension for the game, we can't ever really know just how deep into SR-388 the Metroids really went.

Another concern that was raised is that Metroids need space to evolve and stuff. I would have to disagree with this, because some Metroids in ROS are fairly close together. In fact, if I recall correctly, I remember a room where 2 Metroids inhabited. So, if that is the case, then space wouldn't be an issue to why there were so few Metroids on SR-388.

Yes. In the beginning of Fusion, Samus gets attacked by the X parasitic life-form. She is rushed to the GF, is infused with Metroid DNA, etc, game begins. Late in your Adventure, you come across a top-secret lab full of Metroids. SA-X appears, lab gets detached, explodes into a planted (SR-388), Samus runs off, discovers Federation Secret (as told by Adam) about their interest in the X, sends ship off into collision course with SR-388, kills an Omega Metroid, flies off far away, never to be heard from again, BSL crashes into SR-388, all Metroids and X parasites die, The End.

My question is this: I understand the limitations of 2-D gaming. But in regards of ROS, if there was a Third Dimension, that would give a whole new dimension for Metroids to hide in, allowing more than just the 39 original Metroids from inhabiting the planet, and allowing more of the planet to be accessed. So, without that 3rd Dimension for the game, we can't ever really know just how deep into SR-388 the Metroids really went.

Another concern that was raised is that Metroids need space to evolve and stuff. I would have to disagree with this, because some Metroids in ROS are fairly close together. In fact, if I recall correctly, I remember a room where 2 Metroids inhabited. So, if that is the case, then space wouldn't be an issue to why there were so few Metroids on SR-388.

UchihaSasuke

2008-01-13 01:14:29 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

maybe they didn't see the need to add more metroids since the only game that existed when m2 was made was m1 and you only see a few metroids there. now that we have an assload of games that precede m2, it looks lacking in comparison.

SR388 could be also a vastly barren planet with few habitable areas. it doesn't even have a proper name so it was probably considered a R&D planet at the time for the Chozo. it was probably a planet that no one would care if it went kaput if something bad happened there (no intelligent life there other than the chozo that lived there but they could just leave). it could be a relatively small planet also, making it not big enough for much exploration on the surface (Tallon IV doesn't seem so big either but the open areas add a lot. from what i get, SR388 is mostly caves and there's not much variety in m2)

TJF588

2008-01-13 05:15:25 am

once GameFAQs, now Twitch

1) A third dimension would allow for a broader-sweeping hive, and could easily be made wide enough to say that it connected, via exits/entrances, to the different environs of SR388. This could allow not only for side stuff, but an exploration of SR388's terrain and an explanation of how the Metroids, in such low numbers (which might be retconned, given the larger area), could keep the X population down so effectively.

2) SR = Seriously Ravished? Eh, it'd be funny to me.

3)

Quote:

Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate. And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again.

^
That's what I'm getting at. If the Metroids were designed to hunt X down, then perhaps they have a heightened sense toward them. The X, adaptive as they are, probably formed a sense toward Metroids, so they would stay away out of their range. If the Metroids had the better sense, then any X that moved out of hiding might've been cause for a rally by the Metroids, forcing them back into hiding. If this were the process, then it would stand that the X would expand very slowly, not wanting to risk being forced back. It wouldn't be until they came within a definite range of the hive without retaliation that they'd feel somewhat safe.

Also: I'm somewhat new to BCC code (or whate'er it's called), so I'll be using some mannerisms developed from /-only text forums.

1)  A third dimension would allow for a broader-sweeping hive, and could easily be made wide enough to say that it connected, via exits/entrances, to the different environs of SR388.  This could allow not only for side stuff, but an exploration of SR388's terrain and an explanation of how the Metroids, in such low numbers (which might be retconned, given the larger area), could keep the X population down so effectively.

2)  SR = Seriously Ravished?  Eh, it'd be funny to me.

3) [quote]Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate. And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again.[/quote]
^
That's what I'm getting at. If the Metroids were designed to hunt X down, then perhaps they have a heightened sense toward them. The X, adaptive as they are, probably formed a sense toward Metroids, so they would stay away out of their range. If the Metroids had the better sense, then any X that moved out of hiding might've been cause for a rally by the Metroids, forcing them back into hiding. If this were the process, then it would stand that the X would expand very slowly, not wanting to risk being forced back. It wouldn't be until they came within a definite range of the hive without retaliation that they'd feel somewhat safe.

Also: I'm somewhat new to BCC code (or whate'er it's called), so I'll be using some mannerisms developed from /-only text forums.

Gamma_Metroid

2008-01-13 08:43:47 am

Quote from Papa Brain:

There is no evidence to suggest that the Chozo used Metroids on Tallon IV or Zebes.

Where do you think the Metroids came from?

Papa Brain

2008-01-13 01:30:13 pm

Metroids Are Jerks

Quote from TJF588:

1) A third dimension would allow for a broader-sweeping hive, and could easily be made wide enough to say that it connected, via exits/entrances, to the different environs of SR388. This could allow not only for side stuff, but an exploration of SR388's terrain and an explanation of how the Metroids, in such low numbers (which might be retconned, given the larger area), could keep the X population down so effectively.

The "sweeping hive" could be done in 2D as well. I really think that if they do a remake, having an enlarged environment would be one of the most important features... but there's a whole other thread about a possible M2 remake, so I'll shut it.

Quote from TJF588:

3)

Quote:

Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate. And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again.

^
That's what I'm getting at. If the Metroids were designed to hunt X down, then perhaps they have a heightened sense toward them. The X, adaptive as they are, probably formed a sense toward Metroids, so they would stay away out of their range. If the Metroids had the better sense, then any X that moved out of hiding might've been cause for a rally by the Metroids, forcing them back into hiding. If this were the process, then it would stand that the X would expand very slowly, not wanting to risk being forced back. It wouldn't be until they came within a definite range of the hive without retaliation that they'd feel somewhat safe.

I dunno about the whole "heightened sense" thing, but it just seems to me that there aren't enough Metroids to keep such a crazy-breeding creature such as the X under control. Especially since the only "Normal" Metroids are the ones that hatch at the end. The evolved Metroids don't have life-sucky powers... So how the eff could the Metroids keep the X under control?

We know that the Chozo used Metroids to keep the X parasites away from them... there are Chozo buildings and such, so we also know that to a certain point that their plan worked and the Chozo could live/work on/in the planet. What we don't know is why the Chozo left and let the Metroids take over the planet (I'm guessing the Metroids attacked, but one can only speculate), or why there aren't any larva Metroids anywhere (I really think it has to be some sort of WMD created specifically for 'Troids).

Quote from Gamma_Metroid:

Where do you think the Metroids came from?

It's not a matter of my personal thought. Chozo created the Metroids. They used them to quell the X Parasite infestation on SR388 so they could live on the planet. The manual for Fusion suggests that the Chozo used the Metroid for other reasons as well, but it is unclear as to what means.

[quote="TJF588"]
1)  A third dimension would allow for a broader-sweeping hive, and could easily be made wide enough to say that it connected, via exits/entrances, to the different environs of SR388.  This could allow not only for side stuff, but an exploration of SR388's terrain and an explanation of how the Metroids, in such low numbers (which might be retconned, given the larger area), could keep the X population down so effectively.[/quote]

The "sweeping hive" could be done in 2D as well.  I really think that if they do a remake, having an enlarged environment would be one of the most important features... but there's a whole other thread about a possible M2 remake, so I'll shut it.

[quote="TJF588"]
3) [quote]Except if the Metroids would leave the X alone... they'd re-populate. And it's not like the X are dumb enough to venture into their hive, so the Metroids would have to leave their hive to find and eat them again.[/quote]
^
That's what I'm getting at. If the Metroids were designed to hunt X down, then perhaps they have a heightened sense toward them. The X, adaptive as they are, probably formed a sense toward Metroids, so they would stay away out of their range. If the Metroids had the better sense, then any X that moved out of hiding might've been cause for a rally by the Metroids, forcing them back into hiding. If this were the process, then it would stand that the X would expand very slowly, not wanting to risk being forced back. It wouldn't be until they came within a definite range of the hive without retaliation that they'd feel somewhat safe.
[/quote]

I dunno about the whole "heightened sense" thing, but it just seems to me that there aren't enough Metroids to keep such a crazy-breeding creature such as the X under control.  Especially since the only "Normal" Metroids are the ones that hatch at the end. The evolved Metroids don't have life-sucky powers... So how the eff could the Metroids keep the X under control?

We know that the Chozo used Metroids to keep the X parasites away from them... there are Chozo buildings and such, so we also know that to a certain point that their plan worked and the Chozo could live/work on/in the planet.  What we don't know is why the Chozo left and let the Metroids take over the planet (I'm guessing the Metroids attacked, but one can only speculate), or why there aren't any larva Metroids anywhere (I really think it has to be some sort of WMD created specifically for 'Troids).

[quote="Gamma_Metroid"]Where do [b]you[/b] think the Metroids came from?[/quote]

It's not a matter of my personal thought.  Chozo created the Metroids.  They used them to quell the X Parasite infestation on SR388 so they could live on the planet.  The manual for Fusion suggests that the Chozo used the Metroid for other reasons as well, but it is unclear as to what means.

Gamma_Metroid

2008-01-13 01:54:39 pm

I just found http://forum.metroid2002.com/index.php/topic,428.0.html
It goes over this subject a bit.