Metroid Science

Aznwhore

2004-04-18 08:25:28 pm

Quote from Yoshi348:

Then you're missing the point of this topic. ^_^

metroid science?

MetalRidley

2004-04-18 09:06:45 pm

No, he means that the point is to try to come up with scientific explanations for all Metroid tech, rather than call it "magic" or "super advanced tech that we can't even understand."

PessimistByNature

2004-04-18 09:31:11 pm

Gah. I despise X-Ray visor. It's too hard to see. However, From what I see, I don't think the X-Ray visor uses actual X-Rays. First off, X-Rays don't fade much over long distances, as we know the X-Ray visor does. Secondly. correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that anything that emits X-Rays emits them in all directions unless consicously designed so as not to. This would eliminate the picks up X-rays from other objects theory. Thirdly, X-Rays are capable of pentrating most objects, which means that things like leaves would be invisible with the visor. It would have to move and then change directions and go back. Also, it could not be very deeply penetrating. Perhaps very weak sound. Think about it. Echolocation, when beefed up a bit by the suit, could do everything the X-Ray visor does.

Of course, if I went back and played MP again, I'd probably notice the one crucial thing that would lead to the explanation. However, I am currently FAR too addicted to PSO to do that. :D

Gah.  I despise X-Ray visor.  It's too hard to see.  However, From what I see, I don't think the X-Ray visor uses actual X-Rays.  First off, X-Rays don't fade much over long distances, as we know the X-Ray visor does.  Secondly. correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that anything that emits X-Rays emits them in all directions unless consicously designed so as not to.  This would eliminate the picks up X-rays from other objects theory.  Thirdly, X-Rays are capable of pentrating most objects, which means that things like leaves would be invisible with the visor.  It would have to move and then change directions and go back.  Also, it could not be very deeply penetrating.  Perhaps very weak sound.  Think about it.  Echolocation, when beefed up a bit by the suit, could do everything the X-Ray visor does.

Of course, if I went back and played MP again, I'd probably notice the one crucial thing that would lead to the explanation.  However, I am currently FAR too addicted to PSO to do that.  :D

MetalRidley

2004-04-19 06:06:57 pm

Yeah, the echolocation would work. But aren't X-Rays already everywhere in low amounts? The X-ray visor/scope could just pick up the ambient x-rays, instead of projecting them. Of course, as Pessimist already said, the visor has way too many problems to actually use X-rays. So I'm back to square one on that.

Next question: Why can't power bombs destroy super missile blocks or vice versa? If one is more powerful or equal in strength to the other, it should destroy the other's blocks. Why doesn't it?

My guess is: the p.bombs don't explode so much as expel some type of radiation that can only destroy a certain type of block. S.missiles don't create this type, and so can't destroy p.bomb blocks, even though they are apparently more powerful.

Wassup Dawgs

2004-04-19 07:28:25 pm

Quote from MetalRidley:

My guess is: the p.bombs don't explode so much as expel some type of radiation that can only destroy a certain type of block. S.missiles don't create this type, and so can't destroy p.bomb blocks, even though they are apparently more powerful.

That would also explain why it kills some things, and leaves others unharmed.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-19 08:49:36 pm

Hm...that's not a bad question nor a bad answer. However, it might also have something to do with the fact that the s.missile probably pentetrates a bit into the target before exploding, while the p.bombs don't. I know there are certain materials that are stronger in a certain orientation, with mica i believe being one of those. Perhaps the S.missle blocks are strong on the outside while weak on the inside, thus making it so that the block can only be destroyed by a penetrating projectile.

MetalRidley

2004-04-20 07:22:23 pm

Ok, but I don't see how you get off saying the S.missiles penetrate more. They don't have any sort of boring or pointed surface... heck, they're rounded! To explain the increased destructive ability of the supers, I'd just use Occam's razor and say that the super can just make a much bigger and more powerful kablooie than the normal ones.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-20 08:27:27 pm

Heh, kudos for bring up the Razor, but the question here is p.bomb v. s.missle, not s.missle and missle. And the thing about them being rounded is yet another good reason that I should play MP again >.<

MetalRidley

2004-04-20 08:40:27 pm

I know, I was using it to rebut your point on penetration. You seemed to be saying one reason for the s.missile's power is that it penetrates into objects, and I was offering my (not too complex) alternate idea. I didn't really make that clear in the original post, though.

EDIT: Make more sense now?

skynes

2004-04-21 10:09:18 am

Following on from my weapon theories (go back a few pages):
Using Metroid Prime weapons.

Super Missile. Missiles in Prime are not actual missiles but a form of encased energy. it is the energy that detonates creating the explosion. The reason they cannot be fired quickly is that the cannon must recharge an energy shield to place around the missile energy, otherwise the missile would explode the moment it is launched.

The missile tank is actually a container for this energy which explodes on contact woth air. that is why an energy shield is needed.

Super Missiles are fired by charging the charge beam. The charge beam filles the cannon with much greater power energy than normal (hence the cannons expansion) when a missile is fired, due to the larger amount of power energy a larger amount of missile energy can be contained, thus making a much more powerful missile.

Power bombs are regular bombs enhanced with another kind of energy (the purply yellow glowy type ;) ). It is a regular bomb that detonates this energy making a wide spread explosion.

However as we should know, a wider explosion means a less focused blast. Super Missiles are much more focused in their detonation arc, while power bombs are much more widespread

In other words Super Missiles affect a tinier area than power bombs thus their power is much greater in this tiny area. Power bombs must split its power evenly across its entire radius.

Some creatures require a heavy focused power blast, not a wide spread explosion which is why power bombs do not kill some kinds of enemies.

Following on from my weapon theories (go back a few pages):
Using Metroid Prime weapons.

Super Missile. Missiles in Prime are not actual missiles but a form of encased energy. it is the energy that detonates creating the explosion. The reason they cannot be fired quickly is that the cannon must recharge an energy shield to place around the missile energy, otherwise the missile would explode the moment it is launched.

The missile tank is actually a container for this energy which explodes on contact woth air. that is why an energy shield is needed.

Super Missiles are fired by charging the charge beam. The charge beam filles the cannon with much greater power energy than normal (hence the cannons expansion) when a missile is fired, due to the larger amount of power energy a larger amount of missile energy can be contained, thus making a much more powerful missile.

Power bombs are regular bombs enhanced with another kind of energy (the purply yellow glowy type ;) ). It is a regular bomb that detonates this energy making a wide spread explosion.

However as we should know, a wider explosion means a less focused blast. Super Missiles are much more focused in their detonation arc, while power bombs are much more widespread

In other words Super Missiles affect a tinier area than power bombs thus their power is much greater in this tiny area. Power bombs must split its power evenly across its entire radius.

Some creatures require a heavy focused power blast, not a wide spread explosion which is why power bombs do not kill some kinds of enemies.

MetalRidley

2004-04-21 11:24:48 am

Possible, but there are some problems with that theory:

First of all, who says you can't rapid fire missilea? :D

Secondly, why do you need the upgrade for the super missile, if the charge beam allows the extra missiles to be fired?

Next, if power bombs are detonated with normal ones, why don't they use a bomb slot?

Finally, if super missiles are just more concentrated booms andp.bombs are more spread out, why couldn't super missiles destroy bendezium? S.missiles and p.bombs must be distinctly different types of explosions.

You're talking about MP science, while the previous p.bomb vs. super missile was 2d oriented, but the question still applies.

skynes

2004-04-23 04:45:27 am

Quote:

Secondly, why do you need the upgrade for the super missile, if the charge beam allows the extra missiles to be fired?

The arm cannon needs upgraded to be able to contain / control the larger amounts of energy. If it didn't have this upgrade it'd probably self-destruct.

Quote:

Next, if power bombs are detonated with normal ones, why don't they use a bomb slot?

Notice how in MP when you use the power bomb you CANNOT normal bomb for a few seconds after? There's my evidence. PB uses 3 regular bombs on top of the PB energy.

Quote:

Finally, if super missiles are just more concentrated booms andp.bombs are more spread out, why couldn't super missiles destroy bendezium? S.missiles and p.bombs must be distinctly different types of explosions.

Super Missiles are a concentrated focused blast. It could be that bendezium tightens due to explosion. I can't really think how to describe it. Its like a focused burst strengthens bendezium temporarily. A Power Bomb is wide spread so it can't tighten against it cause it gets hit from all sides.

Quote:

You're talking about MP science, while the previous p.bomb vs. super missile was 2d oriented, but the question still applies.

Yeah I know... I think it still might work though.

[quote]Secondly, why do you need the upgrade for the super missile, if the charge beam allows the extra missiles to be fired? [/quote]

The arm cannon needs upgraded to be able to contain / control the larger amounts of energy. If it didn't have this upgrade it'd probably self-destruct.

[quote]Next, if power bombs are detonated with normal ones, why don't they use a bomb slot? [/quote]
Notice how in MP when you use the power bomb you CANNOT normal bomb for a few seconds after? There's my evidence. PB uses 3 regular bombs on top of the PB energy.

[quote]Finally, if super missiles are just more concentrated booms andp.bombs are more spread out, why couldn't super missiles destroy bendezium? S.missiles and p.bombs must be distinctly different types of explosions. [/quote]

Super Missiles are a concentrated focused blast. It could be that bendezium tightens due to explosion. I can't really think how to describe it. Its like a focused burst strengthens bendezium temporarily. A Power Bomb is wide spread so it can't tighten against it cause it gets hit from all sides.

[quote]You're talking about MP science, while the previous p.bomb vs. super missile was 2d oriented, but the question still applies.[/quote]
Yeah I know... I think it still might work though.

MetalRidley

2004-04-23 08:27:35 am

ok... that concept of bendezium might work, but I think it's just easier to explain p.bombs as some different type of explosion. And as to p.bombs using normal bombs, you can set three bombs and then use a power bomb, I believe.

The idea of the MP super missile does work, though.

PessimistByNature

2004-04-24 06:25:37 pm

Heres a question: How do some bosses shift into modes where they can only be seen with x-ray visor? It's obviously not as complex as say, Samus's suit, because the space pirates figured out how to do it (OP.)

MetalRidley

2004-04-26 10:24:19 pm

Well, it's not simple light bending, because they also can't be seen in the thermal visor. Maybe they actually occupy otherdimensional space, and can only be seen by the X-ray signatures they give off. That doesn't explain why OP can only be hurt with the xray visor, though, since both him and MP are clearly still existing in this dimension, as they are damageable in those modes.

It could be light bending mixed with thermal shielding, although how MP knows to conceal it's thermal register is beyond me, or why, if it can do that and conceal it's x-ray radiation, it couldn't do both at the same time. Rolling Eyes

Next question: How does Samus see behind her in the 2d metroids? We know the suit is linked to her nervous system from fusion. Maybe it has cameras in the back of the head, and it tricks her brain into thinking she has 360 degree vision. As for prime, the electro-magnetic explosion that ruined the suit temporarily disabled it (nice ploy for gamers, most of whom do not have 360 degree vision).

Well, it's not simple light bending, because they also can't be seen in the thermal visor. Maybe they actually occupy otherdimensional space, and can only be seen by the X-ray signatures they give off. That doesn't explain why OP can only be hurt with the xray visor, though, since both him and MP are clearly still existing in this dimension, as they are damageable in those modes.

It could be light bending mixed with thermal shielding, although how MP knows to conceal it's thermal register is beyond me, or why, if it can do that and conceal it's x-ray radiation, it couldn't do both at the same time.  :roll:

Next question: How does Samus see behind her in the 2d metroids? We know the suit is linked to her nervous system from fusion. Maybe it has cameras in the back of the head, and it tricks her brain into thinking she has 360 degree vision. As for prime, the electro-magnetic explosion that ruined the suit temporarily disabled it (nice ploy for gamers, most of whom do not have 360 degree vision).

skynes

2004-04-27 04:12:19 am

I think it was partly damaged, hence the FPS aspect, but it still functions when in Morph Ball mode, hence the 3rd person view.

I don't think MP phase-shifts deliberately. I think it's an aspect of the Phazon corruption. In the same way it alternated attack colours, it alternates dimensions as well. Showing just how corrupted and random MP is.

MetalRidley

2004-04-27 06:42:42 pm

It has to be deliberate. It's not random at all, MP clearly chooses when to switch screens in mode 1 (see the pirate log about that) and switches visibility in a pattern, when she dumps some phazon. Also, even if it was corruption, wouldn't there be other side effects or randomness? MP is completely unhindered in combat, attacking effectively and intentionally.

I also realized the MP part of the visor theory wouldn't work, as you can't see behind you even when you have just landed on the frigate. Maybe the phazon radiation of the planet distorts the camera, even in orbit, but I'm hesitant to blame too much stuff on Phazon. It's not a magic cure-all for science questions. Any ideas?

Yoshi348

2004-04-27 07:27:33 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

As far as 2D Metroids go, the real problem is the see-through-walls part. Anyway, I tend to think of 2D games as imperfect representations of the "actual" 3D adventures of Samus (when I'm in "games are real" mode, as this topic is pretty much about). Like, Nintendo has a window to Metroid-land and converts the stories into games. (Damn, that sounded so nerdy.) Cause, quite frankly, any attempt to explain the many things that stem from 2D-ishness turns into an incoherent mess. As such I tend to file 2D oopsies in the same category as clipping bugs and the murder/space-time beam.

Anerdius

2004-04-28 04:20:10 pm

To be back on the x-ray visor thing.

Correct me if im wrong in any of the facts i state.

The x-ray technology basically works by radiating x radiation through things. Taking x-ray photos of subjects work by radiating x ray through for example through your head. There is bone, meat etc. in your head and all of this resists the travelling of the radiation. Bone is thicker and resists more than the meat that resists less than bone. The radiation that actually travels through the head forms a picture on a magnetic plate that is based behind the subject to observe. The spots where the radiation didnt travel through appear as white and spots where the radiation passed through freely appear blackish.

According to this techique, samus actually needs something to form the picture on which is impossible as samus is constantly moving.

I dont know if this helps the topic in any way but it was fun typing. Bye!

PessimistByNature

2004-04-28 06:54:40 pm

Yep, that's pretty much why. That's also why I have any trouble at all explaining the X-Ray visor with X-Rays.

MetalRidley

2004-04-29 05:42:46 pm

'Nother question: How do blocks like the speed and pit blocks reform?

Well, I was reading an article about self-healing plastics, that when cut "heal" the gap. An advanced form of that may be what's going on when I can fall through the floor of that Ridley Viola room and not be able to IBJ back up.

MegaMyke

2004-04-29 06:42:27 pm

Quote from MetalRidley:

Well, I was reading an article about self-healing plastics

Bored much?(P.S. not makin fun of you) I really don't understand where you people gather all this information...
Question...
When does Samus eat? CAN she eat? With all that Chozo stuff, would she eat bugs n' stuff? I dunno what Chozo's eat though... So... Oh well

Chet Rippo

2004-04-29 07:10:48 pm

Quote from MegaMyke:

Quote from MetalRidley:

Well, I was reading an article about self-healing plastics

Bored much?(P.S. not makin fun of you) I really don't understand where you people gather all this information...
Question...
When does Samus eat? CAN she eat? With all that Chozo stuff, would she eat bugs n' stuff? I dunno what Chozo's eat though... So... Oh well

Well, wouldn't she eat what normal humans eat? She grew up as a normal person. Or she has her food injected into her? I don't know.

MetalRidley

2004-04-29 08:11:12 pm

Quote from MegaMyke:

Quote from MetalRidley:

Well, I was reading an article about self-healing plastics

Bored much?(P.S. not makin fun of you) I really don't understand where you people gather all this information...
Question...
When does Samus eat? CAN she eat? With all that Chozo stuff, would she eat bugs n' stuff? I dunno what Chozo's eat though... So... Oh well

I was reading it as part of a larger article of the most important science developments of 2003, in Popular Science magazine. Ok, it sounds pretty geeky, but it's a good source of information about gadgets, the way things work and how today's issues contain elements of science.

Secondly, maybe she has a tube in her mouth or something. But really, why would she want to eat? None of her missions ever lasted longer than 5 hours or so. (except prime, but there it wasn't more than 12, and she could have eaten in her ship)

PessimistByNature

2004-04-29 08:36:41 pm

Heh, I've heard of Popular Science but have never read it. I might pick it up someday. I get most of my stuff from that strange region between my ears which I can explain not, but I do get some stuff from Discover Magazine. They had this one insane article about glassy metals. They made essentially a tile of glassy metals, and dropped a solid steel ball on it. The ball bounced for two and a half minutes straight. Think of what would happen if they made the ball out of a glassy metal too...