Metroid Prime TAS

2014-04-04 07:23:58 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

Ptorflaxendrosis sure is pretty on point with all the stuff he does, anyways I'll test that letting go of L on the max height that could prove useful ! :P but when he hits the rock at the end of the first jump it's just the momentum that makes Samus go up to the base of the cliff? their isn't any inputs required? (the speed of the dash and height) or do you need to press a certain timed input (R or A?)

DDRevolutions

2014-04-04 07:36:10 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

attachment:

Parasite to Tallon 4 (6) 2_2.flv

DDRevolutions

2014-04-04 07:41:47 am

Life is a speedrun!!!

attachment:

Parasite to Tallon 4 (6) 2_2.wmv

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2014-04-04 09:00:24 pm

Hazel: 2014-04-04 08:01:14 am

Hazel: 2014-04-04 07:59:51 am

Hazel: 2014-04-04 07:59:38 am

Hazel: 2014-04-04 07:58:56 am

Hazel: 2014-04-04 07:58:12 am

Hazel: 2014-04-04 07:57:57 am

2014-04-04 07:57:15 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Well, here's all I can really tell you about the dash.
lock onto the target
hold left and tap B for one frame
let go of L soon after that, I believe the optimal time for speed is 6 frames after but you'll have to mess around with it.

There's a chance that max height is what you'll need, if that's the case then it could be possible to have too much speed, causing you to hit the ledge while you still have a lot of ascending to do. Again, just mess around with it. After a certain point in the dash, the longer you wait to let go of L, the less speed you'll have. And keep in mind that you're going to need to still be ascending a little to actually bounce up when you hit the ledge

somewhere in the dash you'll want to tap R
and I think it might help to hold forward after you tap R, but I don't know if it'll be necessary

That's about all I can say. to re-cap: get enough speed to hit the ledge with a lot of height, while still gaining more height, and somewhere after letting go of L, tap R.

Well, here's all I can really tell you about the dash. 
lock onto the target
hold left and tap B for one frame
let go of L soon after that, I believe the optimal time for speed is 6 frames after but you'll have to mess around with it. [hidden]There's a chance that max height is what you'll need, if that's the case then it could be possible to have too much speed, causing you to hit the ledge while you still have a lot of ascending to do. Again, just mess around with it. After a certain point in the dash, the longer you wait to let go of L, the less speed you'll have. And keep in mind that you're going to need to still be ascending a little to actually bounce up when you hit the ledge[/hidden]
somewhere in the dash you'll want to tap R
and I think it might help to hold forward after you tap R, but I don't know if it'll be necessary

That's about all I can say. to re-cap: get enough speed to hit the ledge with a lot of height, while still gaining more height, and somewhere after letting go of L, tap R.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-04-04 12:58:21 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-04-04 12:53:09 pm

2014-04-04 12:52:56 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

Quote from kirbymastah:

YES YOU ARE. <_< Ugh. I give up... you never got my point in the first place <_< Just re-read t3's post since he explains it basically perfectly, better than I can . this is why metroid prime TASing discussion is so stupid.

by changing up the game mechanics i mean, a casual player would probably not even notice the difference; the physics are the same and the gameplay too, yes loading times, different strats ect. ect. ect. but hey, my point is that a tas would look really different to a normal run anyway, so yeah. Not that important to me personally, if i have time, i'd do a TAS, but no im really, really, really busy right now :/ mostly not even having time for a single run.... And when i do one im probably doing it offline too, since its more comfortable when im not streaming right now.
And i wouldnt even really care about the endtime to be honest, sure having a incredibly low time would be awesome, but comparing it to other runners? Nah, wouldn't do that anyways, cause RTA times are now pretty optimized and we should kinda know, whats doable in any% at least; if i did a 100% TAS and the loading times would be different it'd be annoying, cause getting a time there would actually be interisting, like if you can get like :55 100% in a tas or something, since the times in 100% are way less optimized, like if miles did a 100% segmented run it'd probably get way lower than 1:15.

[quote="kirbymastah"]YES YOU ARE. <_< Ugh. I give up... you never got my point in the first place <_<  Just re-read t3's post since he explains it basically perfectly, better than I can . this is why metroid prime TASing discussion is so stupid.[/quote]

by changing up the game mechanics i mean, a casual player would probably not even notice the difference; the physics are the same and the gameplay too, yes loading times, different strats ect. ect. ect. but hey, my point is that a tas would look really different to a normal run anyway, so yeah. Not that important to me personally, if i have time, i'd do a TAS, but no im really, really, really busy right now :/ mostly not even having time for a single run.... And when i do one im probably doing it offline too, since its more comfortable when im not streaming right now.
And i wouldnt even really care about the endtime to be honest, sure having a incredibly low time would be awesome, but comparing it to other runners? Nah, wouldn't do that anyways, cause RTA times are now pretty optimized and we should kinda know, whats doable in any% at least; if i did a 100% TAS and the loading times would be different it'd be annoying, cause getting a time there would actually be interisting, like if you can get like :55 100% in a tas or something, since the times in 100% are way less optimized, like if miles did a 100% segmented run it'd probably get way lower than 1:15.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2014-04-04 02:38:37 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-04-04 02:36:25 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-04-04 02:36:05 pm

2014-04-04 02:35:15 pm

So what're you gonna say then, when someone does an "inaccurate, but official "TAS right now, then dolphin load times are fixed, then someone does a TAS with "accurate dolphin" but the time is slower, even if it's a better run? <_<

I don't have any problems with someone doing a TAS now, as long as the TASer knows about and is aware of the differences and inaccuracies in emulator. But it's stupid to just say "screw loading times, they don't matter at all" <_<

Anyways i'm done. You evidently don't understand what I'm trying to get at, and we're literally going in circles.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-04-04 02:41:12 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-04-04 02:40:43 pm

2014-04-04 02:39:12 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

not really; just don't compare TAS'es with other runs at all; and when you have different loading times it does obviously not count, when you got accurate loading times, go ahead, compare it to real time runs. What i'm trying to say is: i dont care if it "counts" or not; it doesn't matter to me, i don't care about comparing a TAS to a real time run. (at least not timewise, TAS and real time runs would be too far apart from each other anyways, surely i want to find new strats during the process which probably will help in some cases)

MaskedKirby

Edit history:

MaskedKirby: 2014-04-04 05:25:25 pm

2014-04-04 05:23:42 pm

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

Quote from kirbymastah:

So what're you gonna say then, when someone does an "inaccurate, but official "TAS right now, then dolphin load times are fixed, then someone does a TAS with "accurate dolphin" but the time is slower, even if it's a better run? <_<

On TASVideos, a slower run played on an emulator with more accurate lag/loading time will obsolete a faster but worse run on a worse emulator.
Example: since early 2013 runs on SNES9x are no longer accepted: The Super Metroid 100% TAS on SNES9x was about 5 seconds faster than the run on Bizhawk.

Ntsc

2014-04-19 08:25:04 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

So what're you gonna say then, when someone does an "inaccurate, but official "TAS right now, then dolphin load times are fixed, then someone does a TAS with "accurate dolphin" but the time is slower, even if it's a better run? <_<

I don't have any problems with someone doing a TAS now, as long as the TASer knows about and is aware of the differences and inaccuracies in emulator. But it's stupid to just say "screw loading times, they don't matter at all" <_<

I'm not sure why you can't just put up a disclaimer basically stating any TAS runs will be vastly different due to missing load times.
Personally I watch TAS videos for enjoyment and not to compare against human speed runs.

I can't see any developer wasting the time to emulate the poor loading times of 3x dvd player. Between the JIT, physical location of files on disc, and wide differences of machines running the emulator you are just never going to get an accurate time.

Now if load times are actually breaking your ability to TAS this may be a different issue. By this I mean desyncing due to a room taking .5 seconds to load during a record but 1 second during playback.

[quote="kirbymastah"]So what're you gonna say then, when someone does an "inaccurate, but official "TAS right now, then dolphin load times are fixed, then someone does a TAS with "accurate dolphin" but the time is slower, even if it's a better run? <_<

I don't have any problems with someone doing a TAS now, as long as the TASer knows about and is aware of the differences and inaccuracies in emulator. But it's stupid to just say "screw loading times, they don't matter at all" <_<[/quote]

I'm not sure why you can't just put up a disclaimer basically stating any TAS runs will be vastly different due to missing load times. 
Personally I watch TAS videos for enjoyment and not to compare against human speed runs.

I can't see any developer wasting the time to emulate the poor loading times of 3x dvd player. Between the JIT, physical location of files on disc, and wide differences of machines running the emulator you are just never going to get an accurate time.

Now if load times are actually breaking your ability to TAS this may be a different issue. By this I mean desyncing due to a room taking .5 seconds to load during a record but 1 second during playback.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-24 02:45:08 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-24 02:44:32 pm

2014-05-24 02:05:52 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

can someone link me something like a tutorial on how to record DTMs with dolphin 4.0-1707 or something similar?
also some information about recording it would be nice so, oh well; basically an explanation how to tas with it properly...
And settings for metroid prime would be nice or something (maybe my version is wrong, too)

Because nothing is working, i have really low fps, audio is therefore shit, dtm's desync and idk how to record after making dtms.
Well at least i've been able to start the game.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 12:14:40 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 12:08:52 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 11:52:38 am

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 11:51:31 am

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 11:50:35 am

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-25 11:49:50 am

2014-05-25 11:48:46 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

A little update for Metroid Prime tassing:

Slightly higher resolution than you have on a GC, anti laisng x2 for quality improvement.
First time i actually rerecorded a DTM file. Some graphic issues, some sound issues, but finally it stops desyncing. Let's see how this proceeds. Also as far as i know loading times are fixed on dolphin 4.0-1592 and above, i'm using 4.0-1694.
If it continues going well like this, i might be able to do a first full game TAS. Also, now that i'm using DTM files this is way less work, this only took me like 5 minutes and i never used TAS inputs before.

I was messing around with the EFB-copy options for 4 hours yesterday, but i couldnt get it to not desync. Since im sick of messing around it, i just want to do my first TAS with the quality shown in the video, quite annoying to have a glitched scan visor, but what can you do... Sound issues could probably be improved by a bit, i'm using Open AL sound with a 40ms latency to filter out sound issues. It was much worse using the other sound options since they don't use that latency feature (it was cutting out really horrible everywhere) Though i wasn't sure what that latency option does, so i was kinda scared to put it up too high, would be nice if someone could explain me what it does, and if i should actually put it higher or not. If it desyncs your audio i think i shouldnt put it over like half a second, 'cause unsynced audio sucks.

A little update for Metroid Prime tassing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jncaBlHSJBQ&feature=youtu.be

Slightly higher resolution than you have on a GC, anti laisng x2 for quality improvement.
First time i actually rerecorded a DTM file. Some graphic issues, some sound issues, but finally it stops desyncing. Let's see how this proceeds. Also as far as i know loading times are fixed on dolphin 4.0-1592 and above, i'm using 4.0-1694.
If it continues going well like this, i might be able to do a first full game TAS. Also, now that i'm using DTM files this is way less work, this only took me like 5 minutes and i never used TAS inputs before.

I was messing around with the EFB-copy options for 4 hours yesterday, but i couldnt get it to not desync. Since im sick of messing around it, i just want to do my first TAS with the quality shown in the video, quite annoying to have a glitched scan visor, but what can you do... Sound issues could probably be improved by a bit, i'm using Open AL sound with a 40ms latency to filter out sound issues. It was much worse using the other sound options since they don't use that latency feature (it was cutting out really horrible everywhere) Though i wasn't sure what that latency option does, so i was kinda scared to put it up too high, would be nice if someone could explain me what it does, and if i should actually put it higher or not. If it desyncs your audio i think i shouldnt put it over like half a second, 'cause unsynced audio sucks.

Hazel

2014-05-26 10:23:38 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

skip the cutscenes

kirbymastah

2014-05-26 11:07:36 am

Quote from itsPersonnal:

skip the cutscenes

wouldn't a submitted TAS require starting from an empty file, aka can't skip cutscenes?

BioSpark

2014-05-26 01:28:56 pm

unless they make an exception. personally i don't care either way, since i can skip the longer cutscenes

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2014-05-26 01:57:20 pm

2014-05-26 01:57:11 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Quote from kirbymastah:

Quote from itsPersonnal:

skip the cutscenes

wouldn't a submitted TAS require starting from an empty file, aka can't skip cutscenes?

don't submit it

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-26 03:48:36 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

I asked people on tasvideos.org as far as i understood, everyone said that i should really get ng+ before starting the tas.
I went ahead and finished the game with dolphin, even though it was really annoying to play at like 30 fps average.

Ntsc

2014-05-26 07:47:12 pm

Maybe a bit late but there are a few homebrew tools that can extract gci save files from your wii. It always seems to crash my wii after its done but it works. Additionally you can always just download save files.

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-26 11:59:51 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

I went ahead and finished the game with dolphin, even though it was really annoying to play at like 30 fps average.

Quote from Ntsc:

Maybe a bit late (...).

Yes....

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-29 05:24:45 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

is The shoulder button random or something, or is the gc controller just screwed up? I can't seem to activate the shoulder button at the first frame, or even do it even if i activate it multiple times, the game just refuses me to use it properly and it's really annoying, what does cause that?

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-30 12:02:19 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i just have a small question: where to people see how many rerecords they used?

MrSpEeDrUn

2014-05-30 02:17:27 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

First part of my TAS, exactly the same amount of frames as itspersonnals, lol.
Man, this game is so easy to optimize.

BioSpark

2014-05-30 04:56:50 pm

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

Man, this game is so easy to optimize.

kinda doubt that, especially with dash jumping and boost ball.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-30 06:11:55 pm

2014-05-30 06:10:27 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

Quote from BioSpark:

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

Man, this game is so easy to optimize.

kinda doubt that, especially with dash jumping and boost ball.

i was being sarcastic, it will be absolutely rediculous and i'll probably never optimize this game. Quite honestly i don't think anyone is ever really gonna optimize this game, it'd take millions of re-records i think. just think about it, you'd have to move samu's view absolutely perfect on every single frame, theres billions and billions of possible positions to set up dashes, (i think this game actually works with fractions on it's coordinates) hundrets of degrees to programm the controlstick try optimizing that on every frame possible the camera is shaking around on every morph ball tunnel. You would have the absolute perfect angle every time you use the boost ball, every boost has to be activated as efficient as possible, you can refill boost quicker by launching off the ground, too. Also theres several glitches (like this boost stacking stuff) that seem to be completely random and noone ever really used the strats a TAS would use, it's probably like restarting this game completely from scratch, you will have to find lots and lots of strats progressing through this game in order to get an optimized time, since now you can progress frame by frame, and change your imputs that precisely and frequently. That would be maths sience on a damn high level, and im pretty sure it'd take several years to complete, though you can make really damn impressive videos of this even if you are far away from optimizing this i guess.

[quote="BioSpark"][quote="MrSpEeDrUn"]Man, this game is so easy to optimize.[/quote]
kinda doubt that, especially with dash jumping and boost ball.[/quote]
i was being sarcastic, it will be absolutely rediculous and i'll probably never optimize this game. Quite honestly i don't think anyone is ever really gonna optimize this game, it'd take millions of re-records i think. just think about it, you'd have to move samu's view absolutely perfect on every single frame, theres billions and billions of possible positions to set up dashes, (i think this game actually works with fractions on it's coordinates) hundrets of degrees to programm the controlstick try optimizing that on every frame possible the camera is shaking around on every morph ball tunnel. You would have the absolute perfect angle every time you use the boost ball, every boost has to be activated as efficient as possible, you can refill boost quicker by launching off the ground, too. Also theres several glitches (like this boost stacking stuff) that seem to be completely random and noone ever really used the strats a TAS would use, it's probably like restarting this game completely from scratch, you will have to find lots and lots of strats progressing through this game in order to get an optimized time, since now you can progress frame by frame, and change your imputs that precisely and frequently. That would be maths sience on a damn high level, and im pretty sure it'd take several years to complete, though you can make really damn impressive videos of this even if you are far away from optimizing this i guess.

Hazel

2014-05-31 01:23:02 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

i just have a small question: where to people see how many rerecords they used?

it's super inaccurate, but if you send me the dtm I can you show

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-31 02:00:05 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-31 01:36:43 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-31 01:35:49 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2014-05-31 01:34:30 pm

2014-05-31 01:34:09 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

~~Just spent like 4 hours optimizing the first room, i managed to pull off like a 2 seconds save over itspersonnals TAS or something, it was really annoying to do though :/~~
I'll not upload the video now, because i think its better when i only update some bigger videos from now on, though i'll keep you updated if i ragequit and how it goes.
Imagine how my heart was beating when i was playing back that recording. I was soooooo glad that it didnt desync, Holy shit.
Maybe in the end TASing is mroe stressfull than speedrunning lol.

Quote from itsPersonnal:

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

i just have a small question: where to people see how many rerecords they used?

it's super inaccurate, but if you send me the dtm I can you show

What do you mean by super inaccurate? How accurate is it?

Edit: no, i did actually only beat the old TAS by like 3 frames, my program just screwed up. But yeah, both TASes are improveable, though they're just a few frames off from perfection i think.