Max% WaveBeamLess

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2015-12-23 12:12:58 pm

2015-12-23 05:49:54 am

loving low%

So, here's a list of debatable items. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Discussion can start. ;)

***UPGRADES***
Wave Beam (obviously)
Spider Ball (no escape I guess, unless you can Infinite Boost back into oob in Quarantine Monitor)
Super Missile (might be possible but if it is it's likely very hard, afaik nobody has ever done it and escaped Phendrana's Pirate Labs afterwards)
Thermal Visor (no escape I guess)
Gravity Suit (no escape I guess)
Wavebuster (no escape I guess)
Flamethrower (might be possible if we can scan the post from oob? Wave Troopers can't be defeated without Wave Beam (as far as we know; I mean Flamethrower deals damage to Metroid Prime when MP is on Power Beam vulnerability mode lol)

***ENERGY TANKS***
Magmoor Workstation ET (still not sure how you could escape afterwards (after getting into the Magmoor Workstation SW, infinite boosting into the little sub-room and getting the ET)
Research Lab Aether ET (no escape I guess)

***POWER BOMB EXPANSIONS***
Security Cave PBE (should be possible since Storage Cave SW is a thing now (and with Grapple Beam, it's possible to get oob in Phendrana's Edge, too)

***ARTIFACTS***
LIFEGIVER (no escape I guess)
ELDER (if it's possible it's so madly difficult with all the wallcrawling required that I wouldn't want to do it anyway)
~~SPIRIT (should be possible but escaping means you have to go back oob in Phendrana's Edge or Storage Cavern)~~

***MISSILE EXPANSIONS***
Biohazard Containment ME (no escape I guess)
Training Chamber Access ME (no escape I guess)
Phendrana Shorelines (upper) ME (how, T3, how?)
Research Lab Hydra ME (no escape I guess)
Research Lab Aether ME (no escape I guess)
Gravity Chamber ME (no escape I guess)
Quarantine Monitor ME (no escape afterwards unless you can Infinite Boost back into oob)
~~Main Quarry ME (Wave Beam needed for the crane to blow up the wall and thus setting the ME free; I don't think it's possible to get that ME from oob (without getting permanently stuck))~~

So, here's a list of debatable items. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Discussion can start. ;)

***UPGRADES***
Wave Beam (obviously)
Spider Ball (no escape I guess, unless you can Infinite Boost back into oob in Quarantine Monitor)
Super Missile (might be possible but if it is it's likely very hard, afaik nobody has ever done it and escaped Phendrana's Pirate Labs afterwards)
Thermal Visor (no escape I guess)
Gravity Suit (no escape I guess)
Wavebuster (no escape I guess)
Flamethrower (might be possible if we can scan the post from  oob? Wave Troopers can't be defeated without Wave Beam (as far as we know; I mean Flamethrower deals damage to Metroid Prime when MP is on Power Beam vulnerability mode lol)

***ENERGY TANKS***
Magmoor Workstation ET (still not sure how you could escape afterwards (after getting into the Magmoor Workstation SW, infinite boosting into the little sub-room and getting the ET)
Research Lab Aether ET (no escape I guess)

***POWER BOMB EXPANSIONS***
Security Cave PBE (should be possible since Storage Cave SW is a thing now (and with Grapple Beam, it's possible to get oob in Phendrana's Edge, too)

***ARTIFACTS***
LIFEGIVER (no escape I guess)
ELDER (if it's possible it's so madly difficult with all the wallcrawling required that I wouldn't want to do it anyway)
[s]SPIRIT (should be possible but escaping means you have to go back oob in Phendrana's Edge or Storage Cavern)
[/s]
***MISSILE EXPANSIONS***
Biohazard Containment ME (no escape I guess)
Training Chamber Access ME (no escape I guess)
Phendrana Shorelines (upper) ME (how, T3, how?)
Research Lab Hydra ME (no escape I guess)
Research Lab Aether ME (no escape I guess)
Gravity Chamber ME (no escape I guess)
Quarantine Monitor ME (no escape afterwards unless you can Infinite Boost back into oob)
[s]Main Quarry ME (Wave Beam needed for the crane to blow up the wall and thus setting the ME free; I don't think it's possible to get that ME from oob (without getting permanently stuck))[/s]

TheSilverBanjo

2015-12-23 11:38:02 am

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

You're correct about most of what you've posted daryoshi. However, the magmoor workstation e-tank has been gotten by me as well as the main quarry missile. You can touch the missile from oob easily actually. And from there I just sw my way to the nearby elevator and fall in through the ceiling to make it back to tallon overworld. Regarding phendranas edge stuff, YES all those items are possible because grapple has been gotten making getting back oob (at least imo) way easier than boosting out from the storage cave sw. Phendrana shorelines missile is beyond me. I can't touch it for the life of me. I don't really have a "route" that I follow. I just like to clean house as much as possible before doing the burning trail to workstation sw. (Something Ibe done twice in this run now and will have to do a third time due to a mistake...And lastly, regarding flamethrower, this is something I looked heavily into and it is not possible unless a PAL or JPN disc csn read an NTSC save file. In those aforementioned versions, you can kill colored troopers with a power bomb, meaning the wave fihht would be finishable and the doors would unlock allowing the acquiring of flamethrower. I've actually put the game down for the last 2 weeks or so becausd I spammed it so hard doing all this but, I still have the phendrana stuff to do. (E tank, frost cave missile, artifact, and PB expansion) Ill make a list for you of everything I won't have when this run is "done". And if insight or new techniques are found in the future regarding the possibility of getting these items, Ill pick up the run where I left off and continue. Once I'm "out of thinfs to do" Ill have 81% and phazon suit.

TheSilverBanjo

Edit history:

TheSilverBanjo: 2015-12-23 11:44:01 am

2015-12-23 11:41:59 am

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

Oh and sorry to leave out the workstation tank how to. You literally just have to boost into the green section (or whatever color the one that's closest to the way to phazon mines I can't remember) of the puzzle and scan the final thing. It will open up your way out and you'll have to just normally continue from there and go easily get the tank. Itspersonnal told me about that one.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2015-12-23 12:11:03 pm

2015-12-23 12:06:01 pm

loving low%

thank you very much!

re: Main Quarry Missile Expansion
oh well then, that should be no problem :)

re: Magmoor Workstation Energy Tank
alright, so I have to transition to another room (so the map says I'm NOT in Magmoor Workstation), then boost into that green thing from out of bounds? I don't think I got what I have to do, sry.

Quote:

And lastly, regarding flamethrower, this is something I looked heavily into and it is not possible unless a PAL or JPN disc csn read an NTSC save file. In those aforementioned versions, you can kill colored troopers with a power bomb, meaning the wave fihht would be finishable and the doors would unlock allowing the acquiring of flamethrower.

Would this be considered legit? lol but I also thought about that.

TheSilverBanjo

2015-12-23 12:26:16 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

I consider it kegit hahah. But no with the workstation tank you get on top of the little domr area near the final scan of the puzzle, the the "hallway that leads up to the domr is where I boosted to get back in bounds. You don't need to have the map on another room. It took me like 10 minutes when I did it but that's how I got it done. It sounds confusing and Ill try and get a pic up for you to show where I boosted in soon.

Daryoshi

Edit history:

Daryoshi: 2015-12-23 12:35:28 pm

2015-12-23 12:34:10 pm

loving low%

ok I figured how what I'm supposed to do in the meantime, but I still couldn't get the Infinite Boost to work. I think I'm focussing on trying to boost through at the same place than you did but we'll see.

EDIT: got it 20 secs later lol.

TheSilverBanjo

2015-12-23 12:38:59 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

So you got the tank eh? Awwwwesooome.

Daryoshi

2015-12-23 12:43:07 pm

loving low%

yeah. thanks! so I figured why not try to get oob again and back in bounds in the first "dome". turns out getting back in works just the same, but for some reason the little door won't open when I scan the post that initiates the puzzle. wtf. i had to reset but i'm on action replay anyway.

random side note: wouldn't we have to get back oob in Observatory if we were sick enough to get Super Missile? I had been trying for 2 hours in total in my life so that SW is bullshit. flamancipator or whoever discovered that SW wrote on the m2k2 section:

Quote:

There is very little rhyme or reason to this secret world and it is rather awkward and frustrating. Several hours of attempts may be required to exploit the bug successfully.

I agree! has anyone ever done that SW in Observatory?

TheSilverBanjo

Edit history:

TheSilverBanjo: 2015-12-23 01:10:42 pm

TheSilverBanjo: 2015-12-23 01:06:09 pm

TheSilverBanjo: 2015-12-23 01:04:21 pm

2015-12-23 01:01:49 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

Me personally no. I've never done it. Coupled with mt hate for infinite boosting I don't think I'd ever try it either. If you plan on doing a full run like I did than be forewarned of the pure evil that is Elevator access A. You HAVE to get up that shaft without spider in order to get the elite control access missile. (Its not touchable whilst oob) This wouldn't normally be so bad, but those purple wavy enemies that obscure your vision exponentially cannot be killed without wave, making you take blind leaps of faith onto VERY specific jumps. And I did it TWICE. My game crashed whilst loading main quarry after I cleaned up the upper mines. I was oj the way to main quarry whilst oob from the security access B sw in order to get that missile through the wall we talked about earlier. (IT MUST BE LOADED THROUGH THE NATURAL LOAD TRIGGER OR IT WILL CRASH) Not to mention the awfully awkward elite control door transition from ventalation shaft. The game crashes if you don't load the room naturally through the load trigger if the elite pirate hasn't been killed, and he needs to be alive in the stasis tank for the load trigger for elite control access to exist. Keep these in mind while doing a run. I learned the hard way.

Daryoshi

2015-12-23 01:26:41 pm

loving low%

Thanks for the info; I'll make sure to keep all of this in mind! This shit is so much more broken than 21%... :O

TheMG2

2015-12-23 02:14:45 pm

FYI PAL is a different save format from NTSC. The reason that 0-02 misses out on a bunch of changes from PAL is because they didn't want to break the save format.

TheSilverBanjo

2015-12-23 03:58:31 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

What I would do is practice the elevator access A strat on a file that DOES have wave to near perfection. I did it for about an hour and had the spots pretty well memorized. You have an infinite number of tries due to the health that can be gotten from the bladt boxes at the bottom of the elevator but still. I can only imagine how hair pulling difficult this could of been had I not gotten lucky... twice.

TheSilverBanjo

2015-12-23 04:00:01 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

Let me know your progress periodically sometimes Daryoshi. Ill be glad to assist further if possible.@

Hazel

2016-01-19 11:59:55 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

we can get spider ball!!

TheSilverBanjo

2016-01-20 07:01:52 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

WHAT HOLY CRAP. Fj has been found for phendrana finally? How how how???

Baby Sheegoth

2016-01-21 12:16:34 am

It's basically pretty much bullshit

Hazel

2016-01-21 06:46:55 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

I like how everyone's immediate reaction is just "oh it's stupid I don't care" or "oh so it's just a TAS thing, whatever". Not a single person is even willing to try it, or think of ways to make it easier. It could potentially even be made to work without any wallcrawling if done under the right conditions, it just needs a little testing <_<

Anyway it's done by wallcrawling to put the map on the wrong room (specifically putting the map on a room with load triggers that be activated with IS) and then getting IS on the sticky walls of the wrong room. Boosting at this point will dump you out of bounds, and boosting while submerged in water will dump you out of bounds AND activate prefloaty, since prefloaty is triggered by being in a water box as it unloads. After you boost into the underwater wall, you unmorph and wallcrawl to the closest savestation/cutscene that fixes lightshow.

I personally used Lower Edge Tunnel's water and Hunter Cave's IS-able load triggers, then wallcrawled to the Frost Cave save station. But come to think of it, you could probably use Phendrana's Edge instead of Hunter Cave, it's got load triggers too, and I already know you can use Spirit instead of the save station, I just already had it collected in my testing files.

I like how everyone's immediate reaction is just "oh it's stupid I don't care" or "oh so it's just a TAS thing, whatever". Not a single person is even willing to try it, or think of ways to make it easier. It could potentially even be made to work without any wallcrawling if done under the right conditions, it just needs a little testing <_<

Anyway it's done by wallcrawling to put the map on the wrong room (specifically putting the map on a room with load triggers that be activated with IS) and then getting IS on the sticky walls of the wrong room. Boosting at this point will dump you out of bounds, and boosting while submerged in water will dump you out of bounds AND activate prefloaty, since prefloaty is triggered by being in a water box as it unloads. After you boost into the underwater wall, you unmorph and wallcrawl to the closest savestation/cutscene that fixes lightshow.

I personally used Lower Edge Tunnel's water and Hunter Cave's IS-able load triggers, then wallcrawled to the Frost Cave save station. But come to think of it, you could probably use Phendrana's Edge instead of Hunter Cave, it's got load triggers too, and I already know you can use Spirit instead of the save station, I just already had it collected in my testing files.

TheSilverBanjo

Edit history:

TheSilverBanjo: 2016-01-21 08:59:59 pm

2016-01-21 08:57:47 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

I conveniently haven't done the "phendranas edge" section of my no wave run yet so I need to go there and get the items anyway. I have zero experience with wallcrawling whilst blinded by lightshow though. This doesn't seem like something Ill ever be able to do. Still though, amazing stuff Itspersonal. I'm so glad people are putting work into this run. Its an oddly amazing thing to get a lot of percent without wave by abusing secret worlds and load trigger and everything else.

Hazel

2016-01-21 09:01:00 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Quote from TheSilverBanjo:

You HAVE to get up that shaft without spider in order to get the elite control access missile. (Its not touchable whilst oob) This wouldn't normally be so bad, but those purple wavy enemies that obscure your vision exponentially cannot be killed without wave, making you take blind leaps of faith onto VERY specific jumps.

I just collected the missile by ceiling warping with the map on the room with the elite pirate and then used IS to cutscene warp out. ;P

TheSilverBanjo

Edit history:

TheSilverBanjo: 2016-01-21 09:06:43 pm

2016-01-21 09:05:31 pm

"WHAT!?" -Alucard

I feel like a noob not being up to date on all the tricks and stuff. But... but the only thing that comes to mind is if he breaks out of the tube and you leave the room without fighting him does he go back in and maintain the load trigger for upper mines and such still? Not that it matters since I did to the RIDICULOUS climb up the shaft but still I wonder.

Hazel

2016-01-21 09:06:19 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

As long as you don't kill the pirate, the trigger will be there.

Verallix

2016-03-10 06:38:57 pm

I assume this is easier than wallcrawling with lightshow.

Hazel

Edit history:

Hazel: 2016-03-11 10:13:43 am

Hazel: 2016-03-11 10:03:40 am

2016-03-11 08:11:41 am

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

God damnit, you beat me to it. I had a note on my phone to test something similar to this when I have my new computer. Oh well, now I guess I can work on Max% more while I wait since I never got around to getting Phendrana's Edge stuff or Spider.

Edit: Uhh I've tried this 4 times in a row now and IS crashed each time, I even tried to unload the textures in the Ice Temple by closing the door and it still crashed... is there something special you did? This was done on console right?

Edit: Oh well, you can just use the Ice Ruins East load trigger in Ice Ruins Access to get floaty and wallcrawl one room with lightshow.

Verallix

2016-03-11 11:05:44 am

It was done on console. It wasn't done on a file without wave beam though, which means the layer in Ice Temple is different... which didn't occur to me until now. Maybe that's the issue?

Hazel

2016-03-11 02:50:07 pm

rocks, locks, and invisible blocks

Could be yeah, it's neat that there's at least A WAY to do it without lightshow wallcrawling at least, even if it doesn't work in this challenge.

By the way I'm currently at 83% with Phazon Suit. Currently not collected items that I think I can still get:
Biohazard Containment Missile
Gravity Suit
Gravity Chamber Missile

Everything else:
Flamethrower
MQB Missile
Elder
Research Lab Hydra Missile
Super Missile
Research Lab Aether Missile
Research Lab Aether E-Tank
Thermal Visor
Lifegiver
Wavebuster
Training Chamber Access Missile
Wave Beam
Shorelines Missile