lowest percent?

2008-07-13 03:26:02 pm

i kind of want to try the echoes low% run but i have no idea where to start. i think i remember reading that it was down to 14% now but none of it seems to be documented anywhere. so if someone who knows about it could give a quick rundown that would just be fantastic :-)

Thread title:

Jerry9

2008-07-13 05:15:26 pm

not evil,just hungry

I found the topic confirming 14%
The other major thing is skipping the early power bomb. It's possible, but it's a lot slower iirc.

bushwacker

Edit history:

bushwacker: 2008-07-14 03:40:18 am

2008-07-13 05:40:32 pm

yeah i saw that topic already thanks. the wiki on skipping items seems pretty out of date though. how much of 14% is actually just theory? i assume that no one has ever done the whole thing to confirm it?

edit: okay after looking at some topics i think i've got a better idea of things.

14% is just djgrenola's 17% run, minus the PB expansion early, minus super missiles via a lot of wallcrawling, and minus seekers via just a couple wallcrawls including the one from that old topic in plain of dark worship..

apparently the only obstacle for spider is killing emperor ing's second form which is even thought to be possible. so 13% ought to be pretty doable, maybe i'll try that.

and the only problems for skipping boostball, according to the wiki, are 1-seekers, which are skipped anyway.. 2-spider, which is also probably skippable.. and 3-getting screw attack.
so does anyone have any ideas for screw attack? i think i saw that you can use infinite speed which of course needs some boosting but is there another way to manipulate IS to not use boost? or can you move the spinners in vault without using boost? if either of those works then 12% could be done too which would just be crazy...

yeah i saw that topic already thanks. the wiki on skipping items seems pretty out of date though. how much of 14% is actually just theory? i assume that no one has ever done the whole thing to confirm it?

edit: okay after looking at some topics i think i've got a better idea of things.

14% is just djgrenola's 17% run, minus the PB expansion early, minus super missiles via a lot of wallcrawling, and minus seekers via just a couple wallcrawls including the one from that old topic in plain of dark worship..

apparently the only obstacle for spider is killing emperor ing's second form which is even thought to be possible. so 13% ought to be pretty doable, maybe i'll try that.

and the only problems for skipping boostball, according to the wiki, are 1-seekers, which are skipped anyway.. 2-spider, which is also probably skippable.. and 3-getting screw attack. 
so does anyone have any ideas for screw attack? i think i saw that you can use infinite speed which of course needs some boosting but is there another way to manipulate IS to not use boost? or can you move the spinners in vault without using boost? if either of those works then 12% could be done too which would just be crazy...

Master ZED

2008-07-15 09:50:31 am

Quote from LeCoureur103:

so does anyone have any ideas for screw attack? i think i saw that you can use infinite speed which of course needs some boosting but is there another way to manipulate IS to not use boost? or can you move the spinners in vault without using boost? if either of those works then 12% could be done too which would just be crazy...

There are two other ways to activate IS: Spider Ball and Death Ball. The former won't work because of a lack of magnetic rails in Vault, the latter is AR-only. Even so, IS will not acquire Screw Attack, at least not before all of the spinners and the bomb slot are deactivated (in that order).

As for the spinners, an experiment I ran with the Rezbits shows that their shields can abuse collision detection to get Samus to move the spinners, but I only ever got them halfway positioned and I don't remember if moonjump was involved.

bushwacker

2008-07-15 10:51:33 pm

hmm that's a little discouraging. but i'll go ahead and try to finish 13% then... already taken care of boost guardian and currently trying the wallcrawl past torvus temple... actually i made it to torvus temple but i ended up in the bounding box for the elevator room and fell waaay too far down to recover lol... i'll get it next time

bushwacker

2008-07-18 02:35:27 pm

okay so i've made the wallcrawl to lower torvus and had a look around. my goal is just to get the chykka key down here and get back out but i'm not sure how to do this. obviously gravboost is out and i have no pb expansion so i figure i'll have to use some more sw antics starting from the hydrodynamo save station. any ideas?

i figured i would wallcrawl down to the room with the portal and maybe try to warp into the ceiling up onto the portal ledge, or use the portal from outside the room, but i'm not sure how feasible either of these are.
also there seems to be another sw in the dark version of that save station so i guess it should be possible to wallcrawl past the pb door and have the room load around me, or try a similar ceiling warp/portal from outside trick. please advise.

also once i've gotten the key there's the problem of getting out of lower torvus. it doesn't seem possible to climb hydrodynamo station without gravboost once you've raised the floor, but i assume you'll be trapped under the floor once you come back if you don't raise it. catch-22. ideas?

so whenever that's figured out here's my understanding of what comes next: go get the last chykka key, fight chykka while keeping floaty jump, get dark visor, then use floaty jump to enter a sw somewhere and wallcrawl to lower torvus to kill the power bomb guardian without spider. then get to sanctuary somehow... does that sound right?

okay so i've made the wallcrawl to lower torvus and had a look around. my goal is just to get the chykka key down here and get back out but i'm not sure how to do this. obviously gravboost is out and i have no pb expansion so i figure i'll have to use some more sw antics starting from the hydrodynamo save station. any ideas?

i figured i would wallcrawl down to the room with the portal and maybe try to warp into the ceiling up onto the portal ledge, or use the portal from outside the room, but i'm not sure how feasible either of these are. 
also there seems to be another sw in the dark version of that save station so i guess it should be possible to wallcrawl past the pb door and have the room load around me, or try a similar ceiling warp/portal from outside trick. please advise.

also once i've gotten the key there's the problem of getting out of lower torvus. it doesn't seem possible to climb hydrodynamo station without gravboost once you've raised the floor, but i assume you'll be trapped under the floor once you come back if you don't raise it. catch-22. ideas?

so whenever that's figured out here's my understanding of what comes next: go get the last chykka key, fight chykka while keeping floaty jump, get dark visor, then use floaty jump to enter a sw somewhere and wallcrawl to lower torvus to kill the power bomb guardian without spider. then get to sanctuary somehow... does that sound right?

UchihaSasuke

2008-07-19 12:05:24 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

but, how would you hit the PB guardian? the only weapon that damages him directly is phazon shots. you need to use the bomb slots and also the cutscene when the fight starts warps you to the intended entrance.

can floaty jump go that high and reach the slots?

Bolognab

2008-07-19 12:56:28 pm

Can't you IBJ with floaty jump?

Master ZED

2008-07-19 04:08:24 pm

Quote from PiccoloCube:

can floaty jump go that high and reach the slots?

Of course, though not alone. You need to use small unintended ledges on the walls to cover the remaining height, then mid-air morph into the slots.

bushwacker

2008-07-19 04:25:24 pm

yeah i assumed ibj or mam would do it.
but master zed do you (echoes authority as you are) have any ideas for getting around to the chykka key? i will test some ideas myself but for now i haven't even managed to get into the morph sw in the save station. any tips for that would be appreciated too :-)

Master ZED

2008-07-19 06:58:30 pm

Unfortunately I don't know all of the details. I can better speculate on ways to get to the key (Save Station 2 is my first thought too; letting the room load around you should be possible IIRC), but I don't know how the problem of getting out was solved. I don't have any ideas on the solution off the top of my head.

As for the Save Station entry, I really suck at that one; doninss has much better luck than I do with those rooms, hence why he found them first. You'd have to ask him.

doninss

2008-07-20 12:49:46 am

The wiki has descriptions and links to vids for almost all of the SWs. Remember to keep the map on the wrong room (hydro). The pic shows where the cross-hair needs to be (after aiming as low as possible, then locking the view).

AFAIK the climb back up hydro was never solved completely. IS can land you inside the cannon IIRC but while the door will yield "disappearing room", I could never stick to the door or wall to spin up (or some other problem).

bushwacker

Edit history:

bushwacker: 2008-07-20 11:41:41 pm

2008-07-20 04:03:13 pm

well shoot, i thought the only obstacle for spider was emperor ing 2 Evil or Very Mad

so an idea i just thought up was, is it possible to get to screw attack and go back to torvus with just boostball? if so then we could use the screw attack underwater glitch to get up to the key, and then having screw attack might help climb hydrodynamo or allow for a sw somewhere to wallcrawl to a better spot.

edit: i was also just wondering if you can wallcrawl straight to chykka's room without the keys and start the battle. or does the "using all three keys" cutscene actually trigger the battle? anyone know?

SkippyJr

2008-07-21 12:35:49 am

Falling in from above does not trigger the Chykka fight. The four bits you destroy to free the cacoon are not there until the 3 keys cutscene. 'Tis humerous to fight Chykka with the Light Suit btw, try it sometime.

Instead of the SA underwater glitch, you can morph right at the waterline. As each room has its own water, you have to redo the glitch near each room. Taking it from Hydro Dynamo to Hydro Shaft is easy, but the waterline for the room just below is around the top of one of the high steps. Noone has yet had the patience to carry the glitch past that point, perhaps because of needing a 3bsj for each try. (doninss has videos for carrying it across vertical boundries btw.) Using SA to reach the key does sound theoretically viable.

Unless the bars in Training Chamber can be 3bsj'd over (or if you don't want to do one of the SWs there), it is a good idea to spin it "blue" for when returning after getting main PB (and the Sky Temple Key) later on. Also ignore if Hyrdo Dynamo can be climbed.

Torvus Key #2 is a big annoyance hindering SW low%. Getting GravBoost or the early PB seem to be the only options.

Falling in from above does not trigger the Chykka fight.  The four bits you destroy to free the cacoon are not there until the 3 keys cutscene.  'Tis humerous to fight Chykka with the Light Suit btw, try it sometime.

Instead of the SA underwater glitch, you can morph right at the waterline.  As each room has its own water, you have to redo the glitch near each room.  Taking it from Hydro Dynamo to Hydro Shaft is easy, but the waterline for the room just below is around the top of one of the high steps.  Noone has yet had the patience to carry the glitch past that point, perhaps because of needing a 3bsj for each try.  (doninss has videos for carrying it across vertical boundries btw.)  Using SA to reach the key does sound theoretically viable.

Unless the bars in Training Chamber can be 3bsj'd over (or if you don't want to do one of the SWs there), it is a good idea to spin it "blue" for when returning after getting main PB (and the Sky Temple Key) later on.  Also ignore if Hyrdo Dynamo can be climbed.

Torvus Key #2 is a big annoyance hindering SW low%.  Getting GravBoost or the early PB seem to be the only options.

bushwacker

2008-07-21 01:11:43 am

okay so if i'm reading this right: you can morph right into the water to get the same effect as if you'd screw attacked underwater. you could do this in hydrodynamo station and go through the door at the bottom into hydro shaft and you'd still have the "above water" effect until you crossed the water boundary from hydrodynamo to hydro shaft, this boundary being in hydro shaft near the big steps; but you can carry the effect across the boundary by morphing again. correct?

so if you carried the above water effect through into hydro shaft and took the portal for the key, would you have the effect again if you came straight back through the portal? does going through portals cause the room on the other side of the portal to unload?

so if we can't find a way to climb hydrodynamo, then would i be correct in thinking that 13% is impossible but 14% has THREE different possibilities? by taking spiderball, the powerbomb expansion, OR gravboost?

SkippyJr

2008-07-21 02:03:23 am

Yes. To get to the key, you'd have to do the glitch 3 times (and the 3rd one's the doozy). It would make sense if the water comes back when comming back through the portal. Either way, you still get the slowness of water, so you have to do the series of difficult 3bsj's to climb the steps.

Hmm, if you can get Torvus Key #2 with SA via the air underwater glitch, you'd only need Spiderball (sounds like a %drop!). In fact, you would not need to visit Lower Torvus on your first visit. After BoostBall, use the Torvus Transport Access SW to bypass Super doors, and head to Sanctuary. After the long float in the Sanctuary elevator room SW, SA and Spider are yours (and open the portal for comming back during the energy transfer). Then Lower Torvus and getting main PBs shouldn't be a problem; leaving via one of the morph SWs.

About spider skip - someone did test EI2 without using Spider, but I don't recall the results. The dark water could not have made things easy. Here is the wiki list of obstacles to skipping items.

So if EI2 can be taken down w/o spider or SA can reach that Torvus key, then we have a new low% (getting grav or early pb for the first, spider for the second).

Yes.  To get to the key, you'd have to do the glitch 3 times (and the 3rd one's the doozy).  It would make sense if the water comes back when comming back through the portal.  Either way, you still get the slowness of water, so you have to do the series of difficult 3bsj's to climb the steps.

Hmm, if you can get Torvus Key #2 with SA via the air underwater glitch, you'd only need Spiderball (sounds like a %drop!).  In fact, you would not need to visit Lower Torvus on your first visit.  After BoostBall, use the Torvus Transport Access SW to bypass Super doors, and head to Sanctuary.  After the long float in the Sanctuary elevator room SW,  SA and Spider are yours (and open the portal for comming back during the energy transfer).  Then Lower Torvus and getting main PBs shouldn't be a problem; leaving via one of the morph SWs.

About spider skip - someone did test EI2 without using Spider, but I don't recall the results.  The dark water could not have made things easy.  [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php/Current_Obstacles_to_Skipping_Items]Here is the wiki list[/url] of obstacles to skipping items.

So if EI2 can be taken down w/o spider or SA can reach that Torvus key, then we have a new low% (getting grav or early pb for the first, spider for the second).

bushwacker

Edit history:

bushwacker: 2008-07-21 06:09:20 pm

2008-07-21 02:27:48 pm

i don't understand a couple things you just said.

why do you have to do the glitch 3 times? by my understanding it was just 1) in hydrodynamo and 2) in hydro shaft. i thought the hydro shaft was the doozy because you have to 3bsj up (which i've already done and imo it's not that hard).

also i don't know what you mean by "dark water" in the EI2 fight, i remember it being just a big sphere with a few ridges around the bottom but it's been a while.

what would be the new low%? i thought it would be 13% - 1 missile, 2 bombs, 3 dark beam, 4 light beam, 5 translator, 6 translator, 7 dark suit, 8 boost, 9 dark visor, 10 screw attack, 11 light suit, 12 main power bombs, and 13 space jump. according to that old thread, the low% is 14% which is just all the items i said plus spider ball. so there would be no gravboost or early pb like you say at the end of your post..

and thinking about it now i could almost swear that there was a video of climbing hydrodynamo without gravboost. i want to say it was kip that made it (who else) but shoot that was probably in 2004 and i wouldn't know where to start looking if it even exists.

edit: a quick search of old posts shows that he had a video for getting up hydrodynamo to some amount of height but not all the way. the video's gone so i dunno how far he got. but what i was able to do is 3bsj out of the bottom hole, take the watery boost up, underwater dash to one of the other big ledges. then jump onto the little post and you can do a big ghetto jump up the column thing and land on a small ledge near the top, then underwater dash onto the main structure. this is the same spot where the morph ball cannon would be if the room wasn't raised. more bsj's might be possible from here but my tv is broken so i can't do any more testing. kind of promising so far though

i don't understand a couple things you just said.

why do you have to do the glitch 3 times? by my understanding it was just 1) in hydrodynamo and 2) in hydro shaft. i thought the hydro shaft was the doozy because you have to 3bsj up (which i've already done and imo it's not that hard).

also i don't know what you mean by "dark water" in the EI2 fight, i remember it being just a big sphere with a few ridges around the bottom but it's been a while.

what would be the new low%? i thought it would be 13% - 1 missile, 2 bombs, 3 dark beam, 4 light beam, 5 translator, 6 translator, 7 dark suit, 8 boost, 9 dark visor, 10 screw attack, 11 light suit, 12 main power bombs, and 13 space jump. according to that old thread, the low% is 14% which is just all the items i said plus spider ball. so there would be no gravboost or early pb like you say at the end of your post..

and thinking about it now i could almost swear that there was a video of climbing hydrodynamo without gravboost. i want to say it was kip that made it (who else) but shoot that was probably in 2004 and i wouldn't know where to start looking if it even exists.

edit: a quick search of old posts shows that he had a video for getting up hydrodynamo to some amount of height but not all the way. the video's gone so i dunno how far he got. but what i was able to do is 3bsj out of the bottom hole, take the watery boost up, underwater dash to one of the other big ledges. then jump onto the little post and you can do a big ghetto jump up the column thing and land on a small ledge near the top, then underwater dash onto the main structure. this is the same spot where the morph ball cannon would be if the room wasn't raised. more bsj's might be possible from here but my tv is broken so i can't do any more testing. kind of promising so far though

SkippyJr

2008-07-21 10:03:40 pm

1) top of Hydro Station 2) bottom of Hydro Station (clear Hydro Shaft's water) 3) bottom of Hydro Shaft (clear Hydro Chamber's water, which is around the portal). Just tested it (with GravBoost), and the supposed water line for #3 actually dumps Hydro Chamber. Which means as you approach the portal it loads again and the water returns. It appears that there isn't any time for a 3bj before the water's return. Looks like you'll have to pick up the key after PB Guardian.

Without Spider, you'll be on the floor for EI2. The room is covered in dark-er water. There are some higher points that can be stood upon, so a MAM + bombs/PBs might work. Otherwise you'll be bomb jumping out of that water.

I had forgotton that the Torvus Transport Access SW killed the low% split (+PB or +Supers at the time). 14% is still the lowest. PB Guardian still seems to require SpiderBall. The floaty jump method requires the early PB. So if EI2 is no problem, there would be 2 14% games (+Spider or +PB).

doninss got as far as you did 2 years ago in climbing Hydro Station, and that's the record. His video. Quite a few differences between methods, but that's OK! kip did Hydro Shaft (and may have had a video of one step) (BTW that was the first walled BSJ IIRC).

1) top of Hydro Station 2) bottom of Hydro Station (clear Hydro Shaft's water) 3) bottom of Hydro Shaft (clear Hydro Chamber's water, which is around the portal).  Just tested it (with GravBoost), and the supposed water line for #3 actually dumps Hydro Chamber.  Which means as you approach the portal it loads again and the water returns.  It appears that there isn't any time for a 3bj before the water's return.  Looks like you'll have to pick up the key after PB Guardian.

Without Spider, you'll be on the floor for EI2.  The room is covered in dark-er water.  There are some higher points that can be stood upon, so a MAM + bombs/PBs might work.  Otherwise you'll be bomb jumping out of that water.

I had forgotton that the Torvus Transport Access SW killed the low% split (+PB or +Supers at the time).  14% is still the lowest.  PB Guardian still seems to require SpiderBall.  The floaty jump method requires the early PB.  So if EI2 is no problem, there would be 2 14% games (+Spider or +PB).

doninss got as far as you did 2 years ago in climbing Hydro Station, and that's the record.  [url=http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/HydroStation_climb_low.avi]His video.[/url]  Quite a few differences between methods, but that's OK!  kip did Hydro Shaft (and may have had a video of one step) (BTW that was the first walled BSJ IIRC).

doninss

Edit history:

doninss: 2008-07-22 12:16:22 am

2008-07-21 11:51:48 pm

http://www.metroid2002.com/prime2/index.php/Screw_Attack_Underwater_Glitch
http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/TBog_key_SA_noGrav.avi

I was able to get up to the door ledges in HStation with SAU. I could almost get completely to the the top with a SA bounce after a bsj. (The doors and SW might offer a way up.) The water comes back after the portal though IIRC, so you'd have to find the instantaneous SAU glitch in Hydro Shaft. Good luck. ;P It seems to me that one might be able to initiate SAU at a vertical water edge with water on both sides, but I have tried quite a few times unsuccessfully so maybe (probably) not.

Edit: Hmm, thinking back I probably tested from the upper floor of HStation. I'm not sure you can even carry SAU up through a horizontal edge.

A lot of trouble even if it is possible. Skippy's right, after PBG.

bushwacker

2008-07-22 02:16:13 pm

okay so good to see that a screw attack gets the key at least. and if you got back up to the doors then yeah surely a sw could you let wallcrawl back up to the top of hydroshaft so that's certainly a start. but i understand you need to get SAU again somehow back on the light side? that's no good... what are the chances of making a SA sw (or morph sw) on either side of the portal? i can't remember what you have to work with on the dark side though. for that matter how hard is it to wallcrawl completely underwater? are you able to ether jump if needed?

could you make another 14% game by doing +gravboost?

doninss

2008-07-24 10:07:12 pm

A new SW that would help is a long shot at best IMO. (Never say never though.)

Most of the water boxes are inside the edge of ether I believe.

bushwacker

2008-08-30 11:15:11 pm

ok i made a new game and got the early pb so im ready to try again.... these are the items that i know to get, not sure how it's possible to do 14% so please advise zed/doniss/skippy/dj/xtrax/who else
1 missile
2 bombs
3 sj
4 db
5 lb
6 boost
7 main pb
8 pb expansion
9 dark suit
10 light suit
11 translator 1
12 translator 2
13 dark visor
14 spider
15 screw attack

and skipping:
emerald translator
gravity boost
grapple beam
cobalt translator
echo visor
annihilator beam
super missiles
seekers

okay so right now i just got boost and im not sure of my next move. i know i can get screw attack right now but as far as i can tell this means doing the secret world involving the scan dash off the wasp hive in temple grounds and that seems pretty difficult.
if i stay in torvus i know i can wallcrawl to lower torvus past the super doors, underwater dash to the white door and use the portal to get the chykka key from behind the power bomb door.
from there i wouldn't know how to get out of lower torvus.... pretty sure i read that you can't wallcrawl due to issues with the elevator. there's the back exit to sanctuary but not sure if it's possible to get there without gravity boost. is a wallcrawl possible? would i have to use those stupid morph sw's in the save rooms?
help is appreciated because i don't want to end up stuck again

ok i made a new game and got the early pb so im ready to try again.... these are the items that i know to get, not sure how it's possible to do 14% so please advise zed/doniss/skippy/dj/xtrax/who else
1 missile
2 bombs
3 sj
4 db
5 lb
6 boost
7 main pb
8 pb expansion
9 dark suit
10 light suit
11 translator 1
12 translator 2
13 dark visor
14 spider
15 screw attack

and skipping:
emerald translator
gravity boost
grapple beam
cobalt translator
echo visor
annihilator beam
super missiles
seekers

okay so right now i just got boost and im not sure of my next move. i know i can get screw attack right now but as far as i can tell this means doing the secret world involving the scan dash off the wasp hive in temple grounds and that seems pretty difficult.
if i stay in torvus i know i can wallcrawl to lower torvus past the super doors, underwater dash to the white door and use the portal to get the chykka key from behind the power bomb door. 
from there i wouldn't know how to get out of lower torvus.... pretty sure i read that you can't wallcrawl due to issues with the elevator. there's the back exit to sanctuary but not sure if it's possible to get there without gravity boost. is a wallcrawl possible? would i have to use those stupid morph sw's in the save rooms?
help is appreciated because i don't want to end up stuck again

doninss

Edit history:

doninss: 2008-09-02 12:51:11 am

2008-09-02 12:11:52 am

I'm extremely weak at route finding (especially in my head), so you'll need help from someone else in that regard. I can't remember much about what had been figured out concerning no-supers and no-seekers either. I checked out the viability of no-seekers a long time ago, but... can't remember much. (The results were positive but I used MJ to speed things up so the results are possibly suspect anyway.) I'm not sure if no-supers has ever really been checked. Yeah, I'm a lot of help. ;P Lucky for you the others you mentioned (and others you didn't I'm sure) are much better.

Looking at a vid, the super door at the elevator to lower Torvus is only on one side.

I'm almost certain you can crawl to the back exit. Getting there sans SWs and no GB, I seem to remember a problem. (Not only can I not remember many things, I can only seem to remember the rest.)

The save station morph SW entrances are only slightly mentally challenged.

Edit: You need lots of saves so you can go back just as far as you need if you do get stuck. EMS usb mem adapter works very well.

I'm extremely weak at route finding (especially in my head), so you'll need help from someone else in that regard. I can't remember much about what had been figured out concerning no-supers and no-seekers either. I checked out the viability of no-seekers a long time ago, but... can't remember much. (The results were positive but I used MJ to speed things up so the results are possibly suspect anyway.) I'm not sure if no-supers has ever really been checked. Yeah, I'm a lot of help. ;P Lucky for you the others you mentioned (and others you didn't I'm sure) are much better.

Looking at a vid, the super door at the elevator to lower Torvus is only on one side.

I'm almost certain you can crawl to the back exit. Getting there sans SWs and no GB, I seem to remember a problem. (Not only can I not remember many things, I can only seem to remember the rest.)

The save station morph SW entrances are only slightly mentally challenged.

Edit: You need lots of saves so you can go back just as far as you need if you do get stuck. EMS usb mem adapter works very well.

bushwacker

Edit history:

bushwacker: 2008-09-03 03:10:24 am

2008-09-02 01:54:38 am

i've messed around with the things some more and here's what i've got:

i'm trying to wallcrawl past torvus temple to the elevator (not warping in to the elevator) to avoid using the morph sw but the room geometry is too weird so it probably won't work... ugh i might just have to buckle down and do the morph sw bah ;(

for getting to the back way of sanctuary you have to go through training chamber(?). you can't go through the seeker door in hydrodynamo so the only way in is through the black door, but that puts you behind a fence in TC that's too high to get over, at least with 3bsj... and if you could get over it i'm not sure if you could make it up the spider track underwater anyway. so wallcrawl is probably necessary.
to go in the front of sanc would mean doing the wasp hive sw. once past the super door, you can't just continue with the normal way to sanctuary because (1) there's the translator door in the great temple (but you can wallcrawl past this with the u-mos sw, i did this easily), but then (2) the dark visor/seeker door in temple grounds. so to get around this it should be possible to take the elevator to temple assembly site and crawl from there to gmfc compound and enter the front (courtesy of 101% ghetto to pass the translator door). if there's a dark visor or seeker puzzle after that then entering sanc from the front definitely won't work... but if it does then this means 14% should be possible, avoiding the early pb expansion i think..

edit: okay after checking out all the sw possibilities on the wiki i think i've got a solid plan for 14%.

in sanctuary there IS a dark visor/seeker puzzle after all. but there is a sw that should be able to bypass it, in the elevator room from temple grounds. it involves an incredibly long float but once you're there i don't see why a wallcrawl from there all the way up to reactor core shouldn't be possible. so that would bypass the dark visor/seeker door, making it possible to enter sanctuary from the front and skip the early pb expansion.
so the route would be:
normal until torvus (no pb expansion) 8%
get boost 9%
leave torvus using the wasp hive dash sw from djgrenola to get past the first super door and take the elevator to great temple. from here two options to get to sanctuary: (1) use temple assembly site sw for wallcrawl to gmfc compound (edit: tried this route, screen turned black and game apparently froze when i tried to load gmfc compound; dunno if it was a one-time occurrence or just some kind of killer glitch) or (2) use the u-mos sw to get past the translator door and take the elevator, and at the bottom of the elevator use the sw there to wallcrawl past the dark visor/seeker door to gmfc compound. either way should work. alternate option (3) (confirmed possible): after the wasp hive sw, crawl to windchamber gateway and stay in the sw or just re-enter it but keep wallcrawling past to the room with sunburst, through the room with the mb tunnel, and finally end up at gmfc compound.
next use sw in sanc elevator room to bypass dark visor/seeker door (edit: made it into the sw, it takes literally a half hour of floating. from there it's fairly tricky to get the next room to load, but possible; after that room my efforts ended at sanctuary entrance(?) when i tried to scale the room up to the skywalk, but fell and hit the terminal fall which placed me back into the room... better strategy might be to bypass the terminal fall down to the standard, then aether jump/float up to the other side of the room... will have to try this method another time)
go for screw attack (10%), then for spider (11%) using various sw's (all known to be possible afaik)
maybe at this point it's possible to do the annihilator skip too, i'm not sure.
but eventually return to torvus (not sure how yet but should be possible right... either from the front or one of the back ways)
do the forgotten bridge wallcrawl to lower torvus bypassing the super/translator doors.
in lower torvus get to the power bomb guardian somehow, probably will need a wallcrawl
but since you have spider you can fight him normally and get the main pb pickup (12%)
and at long last get the second chykka key from behind, without gravboost or the pb expansion. now get back to upper torvus (possibly very roundabout way), head for the last chykka key and the chykka fight. get dark visor (13%).
from here i guess just get light suit (14%) and do the sky temple key cleanup, not sure what all this entails but it's guaranteed to be a doozy.

should allow for 14% in the end though.... thoughts?

i've messed around with the things some more and here's what i've got:

i'm trying to wallcrawl past torvus temple to the elevator (not warping in to the elevator) to avoid using the morph sw but the room geometry is too weird so it probably won't work... ugh i might just have to buckle down and do the morph sw bah ;(

for getting to the back way of sanctuary you have to go through training chamber(?). you can't go through the seeker door in hydrodynamo so the only way in is through the black door, but that puts you behind a fence in TC that's too high to get over, at least with 3bsj... and if you could get over it i'm not sure if you could make it up the spider track underwater anyway. so wallcrawl is probably necessary.
to go in the front of sanc would mean doing the wasp hive sw. once past the super door, you can't just continue with the normal way to sanctuary because (1) there's the translator door in the great temple (but you can wallcrawl past this with the u-mos sw, i did this easily), but then (2) the dark visor/seeker door in temple grounds. so to get around this it should be possible to take the elevator to temple assembly site and crawl from there to gmfc compound and enter the front (courtesy of 101% ghetto to pass the translator door). if there's a dark visor or seeker puzzle after that then entering sanc from the front definitely won't work... but if it does then this means 14% should be possible, avoiding the early pb expansion i think..

edit: okay after checking out all the sw possibilities on the wiki i think i've got a solid plan for 14%.

in sanctuary there IS a dark visor/seeker puzzle after all. but there is a sw that should be able to bypass it, in the elevator room from temple grounds. it involves an incredibly long float but once you're there i don't see why a wallcrawl from there all the way up to reactor core shouldn't be possible. so that would bypass the dark visor/seeker door, making it possible to enter sanctuary from the front and skip the early pb expansion.
so the route would be:
normal until torvus (no pb expansion) 8%
get boost 9%
leave torvus using the wasp hive dash sw from djgrenola to get past the first super door and take the elevator to great temple. from here two options to get to sanctuary: (1) use temple assembly site sw for wallcrawl to gmfc compound (edit: tried this route, screen turned black and game apparently froze when i tried to load gmfc compound; dunno if it was a one-time occurrence or just some kind of killer glitch) or (2) use the u-mos sw to get past the translator door and take the elevator, and at the bottom of the elevator use the sw there to wallcrawl past the dark visor/seeker door to gmfc compound. either way should work. alternate option (3) (confirmed possible): after the wasp hive sw, crawl to windchamber gateway and stay in the sw or just re-enter it but keep wallcrawling past to the room with sunburst, through the room with the mb tunnel, and finally end up at gmfc compound.
next use sw in sanc elevator room to bypass dark visor/seeker door (edit: made it into the sw, it takes literally a half hour of floating. from there it's fairly tricky to get the next room to load, but possible; after that room my efforts ended at sanctuary entrance(?) when i tried to scale the room up to the skywalk, but fell and hit the terminal fall which placed me back into the room... better strategy might be to bypass the terminal fall down to the standard, then aether jump/float up to the other side of the room... will have to try this method another time)
go for screw attack (10%), then for spider (11%) using various sw's (all known to be possible afaik)
maybe at this point it's possible to do the annihilator skip too, i'm not sure.
but eventually return to torvus (not sure how yet but should be possible right... either from the front or one of the back ways)
do the forgotten bridge wallcrawl to lower torvus bypassing the super/translator doors.
in lower torvus get to the power bomb guardian somehow, probably will need a wallcrawl
but since you have spider you can fight him normally and get the main pb pickup (12%)
and at long last get the second chykka key from behind, without gravboost or the pb expansion. now get back to upper torvus (possibly very roundabout way), head for the last chykka key and the chykka fight. get dark visor (13%).
from here i guess just get light suit (14%) and do the sky temple key cleanup, not sure what all this entails but it's guaranteed to be a doozy.

should allow for 14% in the end though.... thoughts?

doninss

2008-09-03 11:39:30 pm

You should read DJ's 17% madness topic. Quite a bit of info offered when DJ was considering the super skip.