Late boss question, I don't need help. *SPOILERS obviously*

2007-10-15 05:02:04 pm

Just to tackle the point brought up in the first post that Ridley is a species and not an individual... and the point someone made that they didn't recall that from the manga...

That was a major plot point of "The Best There Is", a monolithic fanfic by InsomniacByChoice that has since been taken down because, according to him, it got out of control and lost focus and he didn't know how to get it back on track again. Whether he originated the idea, or based it off of some information, I don't recall, but he did use the species instead of individual idea.

UchihaSasuke

2007-10-15 05:52:39 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

Quote from Mr. Shadow:

Quote from zell99:

Genetically enhanced Ridley metaform.

Now why would they say his name like that, maybe enhanced dragon metaform. Honestly look at how they word it, its like their tons of ridleys. laugh new

multiple ridleys confirmed

or, super advanced regenerating technology confirmed. helps to explain why enemies respawn in almost every room.

Vertigo

2007-10-16 09:50:23 am

lvl 28 Magic Leper

Quote from Beonarri:

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Here's a neat little article on Ridley. I think that maybe his brain and spine are fairly resilient and he just gets some new bodies made up here-and-there.

I don't trust a thing that Wikitroid says. They have a habit of making up things to explain events and presenting them as fact. For instance in that article it says he's a member of the Space Dragon race that the GF went on a genocide of. I can't recall that being said in any game... so unless that was said somewhere in the e-manga... Also it says that in Zero Mission he was dealing with personal matters until he came back in the cutscene. No idea where they got that from.

As for the question that Ridley is the member of a species, that's not really debatable. The original Metroid manual refers to him as the last native inhabitant of Zebes (or so I've been told), although Zero Mission made no mention of this. So this may have been retconned. The point is however that we know from scans in MP1 and 3 we can be reasonably certain that it is the same Ridley at least until Super Metroid. And I remain convinced that it is the same Ridley throughout the series unless the Space Pirates decided that they really liked the name.

[quote="Beonarri"]http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Here's a neat little article on Ridley.  I think that maybe his brain and spine are fairly resilient and he just gets some new bodies made up here-and-there.[/quote]

I don't trust a thing that Wikitroid says. They have a habit of making up things to explain events and presenting them as fact. For instance in that article it says he's a member of the Space Dragon race that the GF went on a genocide of. I can't recall that being said in any game... so unless that was said somewhere in the e-manga... Also it says that in Zero Mission he was dealing with personal matters until he came back in the cutscene. No idea where they got that from.

As for the question that Ridley is the member of a species, that's not really debatable. The original Metroid manual refers to him as the last native inhabitant of Zebes (or so I've been told), although Zero Mission made no mention of this. So this may have been retconned. The point is however that we know from scans in MP1 and 3 we can be reasonably certain that it is the same Ridley at least until Super Metroid. And I remain convinced that it is the same Ridley throughout the series unless the Space Pirates decided that they really liked the name.

Mr. Shadow

(user is banned)

2007-10-16 04:00:18 pm

OH ****!!!!

Quote from Vertigo:

Quote from Beonarri:

http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Here's a neat little article on Ridley. I think that maybe his brain and spine are fairly resilient and he just gets some new bodies made up here-and-there.

I don't trust a thing that Wikitroid says. They have a habit of making up things to explain events and presenting them as fact. For instance in that article it says he's a member of the Space Dragon race that the GF went on a genocide of. I can't recall that being said in any game... so unless that was said somewhere in the e-manga... Also it says that in Zero Mission he was dealing with personal matters until he came back in the cutscene. No idea where they got that from.

As for the question that Ridley is the member of a species, that's not really debatable. The original Metroid manual refers to him as the last native inhabitant of Zebes (or so I've been told), although Zero Mission made no mention of this. So this may have been retconned. The point is however that we know from scans in MP1 and 3 we can be reasonably certain that it is the same Ridley at least until Super Metroid. And I remain convinced that it is the same Ridley throughout the series unless the Space Pirates decided that they really liked the name.

Yeah i can go with the same on in Metroid prime 1-3, but the others you cant convince me.

[quote="Vertigo"][quote="Beonarri"]http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Ridley

Here's a neat little article on Ridley.  I think that maybe his brain and spine are fairly resilient and he just gets some new bodies made up here-and-there.[/quote]

I don't trust a thing that Wikitroid says. They have a habit of making up things to explain events and presenting them as fact. For instance in that article it says he's a member of the Space Dragon race that the GF went on a genocide of. I can't recall that being said in any game... so unless that was said somewhere in the e-manga... Also it says that in Zero Mission he was dealing with personal matters until he came back in the cutscene. No idea where they got that from.

As for the question that Ridley is the member of a species, that's not really debatable. The original Metroid manual refers to him as the last native inhabitant of Zebes (or so I've been told), although Zero Mission made no mention of this. So this may have been retconned. The point is however that we know from scans in MP1 and 3 we can be reasonably certain that it is the same Ridley at least until Super Metroid. And I remain convinced that it is the same Ridley throughout the series unless the Space Pirates decided that they really liked the name.[/quote]

Yeah i can go with the same on in Metroid prime 1-3, but the others you cant convince me.

Beonarri

2007-10-16 04:01:43 pm

Well, the confirmable stuff for Ridley does help though. If you don't like it, you could always join up and edit.

I do question Ridley's original planet. Lower Norfair does have lots of Ridley-ish memorabilia tacked everywhere. So unless the pirates worship him, then he may have come from Zebes.

Mr. Shadow

(user is banned)

2007-10-16 04:13:32 pm

OH ****!!!!

Quote from Beonarri:

Well, the confirmable stuff for Ridley does help though. If you don't like it, you could always join up and edit.

I do question Ridley's original planet. Lower Norfair does have lots of Ridley-ish memorabilia tacked everywhere. So unless the pirates worship him, then he may have come from Zebes.

Perhaps they veiw Kraid, ridley, draygon, and phatoon as gods then.

Vertigo

2007-10-16 06:09:48 pm

lvl 28 Magic Leper

Quote from Mr. Shadow:

Yeah i can go with the same on in Metroid prime 1-3, but the others you cant convince me.

Just Prime 1-3? Or are you including the original Metroid in that list? Because the scan from MP says Ridley has been rebuilt after his fall on Zebes. It's reasonable that Retro was referring to Samus' first battle with Ridley unless they were intentionally trying to deceive us.

As for the Pirates worshiping something like Ridley, Draygon, etc. I doubt it. All the scans in the MP series show the Space Pirates as highly scientific. Also they made Ridley the chief of security on Tallon IV, a rather lowly job for a god if you ask me.

Beonarri

2007-10-16 08:17:59 pm

I think Mother Brain out sources her leadership positions. I think she's seen how the average Space Pirate performs and wants a stronger leader.

Or, they're just all experiments that succeeded.

Kraid looks like he could be a distinct race, or just a Space Pirate beefed up on something.

Draygon, I think it's stated somewhere that he's an experiment, but with all the mini-Draygons in Maridia, he could be a seperate species.

Phantoon...no idea. Phazon infused ghost-lord? Race of stealth phantoms? Independent bioform with clocking capabilities?

Ridley, I think there was a dragon race floating around somewhere, but he is now unique, or at least somewhat unique.

I still think pirate society is size based...

I don't think Chief of Security is a bad job, Micheal Garibaldi was a security chief and he got to participate in on all the meetings.

Vertigo

2007-10-16 09:50:38 pm

lvl 28 Magic Leper

Bear in mind that it's debatable whether Mother Brain is the leader of the space pirates or not. Although older games said she was, most of the newer information indicates she's a Chozo computer who (for unknown reasons) helps the Space Pirates. It's almost certain that Ridley has a higher/more permanent position in Space Pirate Hierarchy having led (or at least participated in) a raid on K-2L which took place before the Metroids were discovered and presumably the Space Pirates had not been to Zebes (having no need to hide Metroids).

And I'm not saying chief of security is a bad job, in fact in most Sci-Fi it's one of the highest jobs. What I said was it was a low job to give to a god.

Also one of the other main reasons I believe it's the same Ridley throughout the series is because of the events of K-2L. Having killed Samus' mother Ridley is a very personal enemy. By having it be a new Ridley in each new game you lose that personal enmity.

Prime Hunter

2007-10-16 11:53:11 pm

Quote from Beonarri:

I don't think Chief of Security is a bad job, Micheal Garibaldi was a security chief and he got to participate in on all the meetings.

Always good to see another fan of Garibaldi. grin new

Anyway, I still believe that Ridley is the same the entire way through the series, at least up until Super in any case. Prime makes it obvious that he's the same one from the original confrontation on Zebes, and he manages to survive all the way to the Pirate Homeworld seed. He's completely exploded before and been rebuilt without much of an issue, and being on the Pirate Homeworld when he dies makes it easy for them to recover him and do it again while Samus is off at SR388 and anything else between Corruption and ROS. So I can easily see him being ready for battle again by the time Samus arrives at Ceres with the Metroid larva.

How he manages to get off of Zebes before it explodes and onto the BSL station, completely frozen of all things, is the issue though. Afterwards the X get to him, so unless he's not the same one at that point I think that may be the end of Ridley. I mean, surviving Zebes exploding is one thing... but then surviving not only the X taking him over, but the BSL/SR388 explosion soon after as well? Even Ridley has his limits.

I'd like to think that Ridley makes it through and can be seen again in a game that takes place after Fusion (And have them explain how he gets from Zebes to where he would be currently) because the way he fits into Fusion is a terrible way to finally end him in my opinion, if that's what they decided to do. I mean, as Vertigo said, Samus and he have a strong rivalry that's been brewing over the course of the entire series. Samus needs to be the one who finishes him off and in an epic struggle of some kind, and the Fusion battle doesn't fit that description in my mind.

[quote="Beonarri"]I don't think Chief of Security is a bad job, Micheal Garibaldi was a security chief and he got to participate in on all the meetings.[/quote]
Always good to see another fan of Garibaldi. :grinnew:

Anyway, I still believe that Ridley is the same the entire way through the series, at least up until Super in any case. Prime makes it obvious that he's the same one from the original confrontation on Zebes, and he manages to survive all the way to the Pirate Homeworld seed. He's completely exploded before and been rebuilt without much of an issue, and being on the Pirate Homeworld when he dies makes it easy for them to recover him and do it again while Samus is off at SR388 and anything else between Corruption and ROS. So I can easily see him being ready for battle again by the time Samus arrives at Ceres with the Metroid larva.

How he manages to get off of Zebes before it explodes and onto the BSL station, completely frozen of all things, is the issue though. Afterwards the X get to him, so unless he's not the same one at that point I think that may be the end of Ridley. I mean, surviving Zebes exploding is one thing... but then surviving not only the X taking him over, but the BSL/SR388 explosion soon after as well? Even Ridley has his limits.

I'd like to think that Ridley makes it through and can be seen again in a game that takes place after Fusion (And have them explain how he gets from Zebes to where he would be currently) because the way he fits into Fusion is a terrible way to finally end him in my opinion, if that's what they decided to do. I mean, as Vertigo said, Samus and he have a strong rivalry that's been brewing over the course of the entire series. Samus needs to be the one who finishes him off and in an epic struggle of some kind, and the Fusion battle doesn't fit that description in my mind.

Mr. Shadow

(user is banned)

2007-10-17 05:29:13 am

OH ****!!!!

I have a theory that the mother brain is actually a stolen aura unit. That could explain why they get another one in super metroid. Like aura unit 313, this one was able to move so perhaps the first one was proto-type of sorts. Meaning its just a powerful being and its guards tourain for some odd reason....

Vertigo

2007-10-17 10:09:22 am

lvl 28 Magic Leper

Quote from Mr. Shadow:

I have a theory that the mother brain is actually a stolen aura unit. That could explain why they get another one in super metroid. Like aura unit 313, this one was able to move so perhaps the first one was proto-type of sorts. Meaning its just a powerful being and its guards tourain for some odd reason....

The problem with that is that it contradicts what's been said in the official Metroid E-Manga about Mother Brain. In which it is a chozo computer.

It was hoped (by me at least) that MP3 would tie in the aurora units to borrowed chozo technology, but it decided to leave the similarities between the two unanswered.

Beonarri

2007-10-17 03:55:29 pm

Quote from Prime Hunter:

Quote from Beonarri:

I don't think Chief of Security is a bad job, Micheal Garibaldi was a security chief and he got to participate in on all the meetings.

Always good to see another fan of Garibaldi. grin new

Who isn't a fan of Mr. Garibaldi?

Well, you have to remember that the X mimic other creatures, Samus (if I remember correctly) is the only creature mentioned as being infected. After she was infected, the X began to mimic her. So, I think the Ridley X creature was just an imitation, not the real deal. Ridley just crumbled to death after being frozen on the BSL. Kinda un-dramatic though.

Of course, if that wasn't the real Ridley or his brain survived, etc., etc.

Mother Brain was a computer used by the Chozo, then I think that the Feds copied the technology for the Auroras, then the pirates took control of Mother Brain, then Samus blew it up, the pirates got another one, Samus blew it up again. If Mother Brain isn't the Pirate leader, then Ridley (or whoever) does the outsourcing.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

How he manages to get off of Zebes before it explodes and onto the BSL station, completely frozen of all things, is the issue though.

I think that's the biggest question in that game. How/Why is Ridley frozen in the BSL research station? Did the Feds want some Ridley copies? Or, was it the only way to stop him from coming back?

Quote from Vertigo:

Also one of the other main reasons I believe it's the same Ridley throughout the series is because of the events of K-2L. Having killed Samus' mother Ridley is a very personal enemy. By having it be a new Ridley in each new game you lose that personal enmity.

I agree. It's an error in storytelling when a clone of a villain comes back, especially when the villain kills the hero's parents or something.

Also, Vertigo, I was merely pointing out that the Security Chief isn't really a low-job.

Now, what if Ridley ended up just decorating Norfair like that. He's just got that huge of an ego.

[quote="Prime Hunter"][quote="Beonarri"]I don't think Chief of Security is a bad job, Micheal Garibaldi was a security chief and he got to participate in on all the meetings.[/quote]
Always good to see another fan of Garibaldi. :grinnew:
[/quote]

Who isn't a fan of Mr. Garibaldi?

Well, you have to remember that the X mimic other creatures, Samus (if I remember correctly) is the only creature mentioned as being infected.  After she was infected, the X began to mimic her.  So, I think the Ridley X creature was just an imitation, not the real deal.  Ridley just crumbled to death after being frozen on the BSL.  Kinda un-dramatic though.

Of course, if that wasn't the real Ridley or his brain survived, etc., etc.

Mother Brain was a computer used by the Chozo, then I think that the Feds copied the technology for the Auroras, then the pirates took control  of Mother Brain, then Samus blew it up, the pirates got another one, Samus blew it up again.  If Mother Brain isn't the Pirate leader, then Ridley (or whoever) does the outsourcing.

[quote="Prime Hunter"]How he manages to get off of Zebes before it explodes and onto the BSL station, completely frozen of all things, is the issue though.
[/quote]

I think that's the biggest question in that game.  How/Why is Ridley frozen in the BSL research station?  Did the Feds want some Ridley copies?  Or, was it the only way to stop him from coming back?

[quote="Vertigo"]
Also one of the other main reasons I believe it's the same Ridley throughout the series is because of the events of K-2L. Having killed Samus' mother Ridley is a very personal enemy. By having it be a new Ridley in each new game you lose that personal enmity.
[/quote]

I agree.  It's an error in storytelling when a clone of a villain comes back, especially when the villain kills the hero's parents or something.

Also, Vertigo, I was merely pointing out that the Security Chief isn't really a low-job.

Now, what if Ridley ended up just decorating Norfair like that.  He's just got that huge of an ego.

Vertigo

2007-10-17 05:20:45 pm

lvl 28 Magic Leper

Quote from Beonarri:

Quote from Vertigo:

Also one of the other main reasons I believe it's the same Ridley throughout the series is because of the events of K-2L. Having killed Samus' mother Ridley is a very personal enemy. By having it be a new Ridley in each new game you lose that personal enmity.

I agree. It's an error in storytelling when a clone of a villain comes back, especially when the villain kills the hero's parents or something.

That's not what I'm saying D:. I don't mind the idea of a clone (as long as it has Ridley's memories), but I do mind it being a different individual who just happens to be named Ridley.

Also (as I've said) if the Ridley from SM is the same as the one from Metroid to Prime 3 then it's almost certain that the Pirates have his, at the very least, genetic material stored somewhere. As after the Leviathan battle there is no brain, spine, or anything for that matter, left to rebuild from. So he could very easily make a return after the events of Fusion.

As for the leader of the Space Pirates MP hints at a "High Command" while MP3 mentions a ruling caste. It is possible that these are one and the same, but by the sounds of it Space Pirates are ruled by Space Pirates and not some giant alien.

[quote="Beonarri"][quote="Vertigo"]
Also one of the other main reasons I believe it's the same Ridley throughout the series is because of the events of K-2L. Having killed Samus' mother Ridley is a very personal enemy. By having it be a new Ridley in each new game you lose that personal enmity.
[/quote]

I agree.  It's an error in storytelling when a clone of a villain comes back, especially when the villain kills the hero's parents or something.[/quote]

That's not what I'm saying D:. I don't mind the idea of a clone (as long as it has Ridley's memories), but I do mind it being a different individual who just happens to be named Ridley.

Also (as I've said) if the Ridley from SM is the same as the one from Metroid to Prime 3 then it's almost certain that the Pirates have his, at the very least, genetic material stored somewhere. As after the Leviathan battle there is no brain, spine, or anything for that matter, left to rebuild from. So he could very easily make a return after the events of Fusion.

As for the leader of the Space Pirates MP hints at a "High Command" while MP3 mentions a ruling caste. It is possible that these are one and the same, but by the sounds of it Space Pirates are ruled by Space Pirates and not some giant alien.

Beonarri

2007-10-18 03:40:13 pm

Space Pirates a democracy?!

"My allegiance is to the Republic! To DEM-OC-RA-CY!!!" -Obi Wan Kenobi, overacting to Anakin Skywalker

Anyways. I have a feeling that Ridley/Mother Brain can't deal with all of the little problems and mishaps that occur with the entire Space Pirate infrastructure, so I would think that there is a ruling body or bodies that deal with all of that.

So, when Ridley's away at Tallon IV, high command is probably overseeing the dealings happening on Homeworld. Or, whatever project lead to Zebes being rebuilt could've been overseen by a committee. Although, when Dark Samus shows up...the leadership system the pirates have doesn't matter, since her rule was pretty Iron Fisted.

Ridley or Mother Brain being the ruler of the Space Pirates hasn't really been mentioned, has it?

Ridley could just be a general who's very highly regarded or scary to the smaller pirates. If the Space Pirate society is ruled by a higher caste, and we don't really see it, we could be seeing a venture into the Federation areas with Ridley/MB/Kraid/Phanie/Draygon being the overseers. Since space is three dimensional, we could only be seeing one line of their attempted expansions. They could very easily be moving into other areas beyond Federation space. But this is just wild speculation on my part...

Metroid Dread: Space Pirates on Earth! It'd be like Alien 3 before the script got cut to crap.

Space Pirates a democracy?!

"My allegiance is to the Republic! To DEM-OC-RA-CY!!!" -Obi Wan Kenobi, overacting to Anakin Skywalker

Anyways.  I have a feeling that Ridley/Mother Brain can't deal with all of the little problems and mishaps that occur with the entire Space Pirate infrastructure, so I would think that there is a ruling body or bodies that deal with all of that.

So, when Ridley's away at Tallon IV, high command is probably overseeing the dealings happening on Homeworld.  Or, whatever project lead to Zebes being rebuilt could've been overseen by a committee.  Although, when Dark Samus shows up...the leadership system the pirates have doesn't matter, since her rule was pretty Iron Fisted.

Ridley or Mother Brain being the ruler of the Space Pirates hasn't really been mentioned, has it?

Ridley could just be a general who's very highly regarded or scary to the smaller pirates.  If the Space Pirate society is ruled by a higher caste, and we don't really see it, we could be seeing a venture into the Federation areas with Ridley/MB/Kraid/Phanie/Draygon being the overseers.  Since space is three dimensional, we could only be seeing one line of their attempted expansions.  They could very easily be moving into other areas beyond Federation space.  But this is just wild speculation on my part...

Metroid Dread: Space Pirates on Earth!  It'd be like Alien 3 before the script got cut to crap.