Is Icebeam before flaahgra sequence breaking?

2004-04-16 02:06:34 pm

I just saw some videos of getting the icebeam before flaagrah and a varia-less magmoor run. I was wondering if it counts as sequence breaking and will be added to the site, or if it won't because you have to use secret worlds to do it.

Thread title:

Toozin

2004-04-16 02:26:50 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I believe Nate intends on recording a no-Varia run.

Metroid Prime

2004-04-16 02:48:17 pm

Well, he put up his attempt!

nate

2004-04-16 03:21:06 pm

i think he meant if the addition of secret worlds to the process of skipping varia somehow disqualifies this from what m2k2 calls 'sequence breaking.'

the answer is no, with one caveat: if this were somehow faster for a speed run (which it's not, to my knowledge), it would not be allowed, i.e. the varia suit would be a required item for a speed run, since radix's rules say no severe map glitches like secret worlds.

but yeah, expect full coverage on m2k2 ... um ... soon. yeah.

MetalRidley

2004-04-16 03:25:37 pm

Here's a question: What exactly counts as a "severe" glitch? I mean, things like the scan-dash or L-lock spring jumps or track jumping might not be very big glitches, but they have opened to door to some pretty severe stuff, like plasma before Thardus and all that jazz.

I guess my opinion is, everything from sj first to SM's NBMB use glitches to work, and so I don't really see the secret worlds as any different.

KennyMan666

2004-04-16 04:50:46 pm

Viking

Precursor

I'd say that Sequence Breaking is when you get an item earlier than you're supposed to. So, yes, Ice Beam before Flaahgra is SBing.

Xin

2004-04-16 05:18:03 pm

A severe glitch would be like using secret worlds (to get to them you have to clip out of the map), perhaps using some way to teleport (he bans this also), etc.

MetalRidley

2004-04-16 05:20:43 pm

But, you see, its skipping use is not necessarily more severe than other glitches, like the dash jump. What makes SW's so severe or different?

Andrew Mills

2004-04-16 06:14:32 pm

Strategy Guide Writer

This is something that has baffeled me too. Now, everyone knows my feelings on SW's, so I won't go into that again. But a few people have kept insisting that using other glitches for SB'ing is fine, but jumping our of the room's main confines to bypass some stuff isn't.

I know a line of definition has to be drawn somewhere, but surely by the use of glitches period, means that the exploitation of this glitch (i.e. SW's/wall clipping) is legit anyway. Otherwise you start reaching double standards of yea, THIS glitch is acceptable because... blah, and SW's aren't because, well y'know they were never mean't to be in the game...

What Nate and the rest of the M2k2 lot classify as legitimate is entirely up to them. As far as I'm concerned they're totally legit, even if they CAN be used in a speed run (and the IBBF route is looking much more likely to be do-able in around 4-5mins), then I'd accept them no probs.

Abusing the in-game timer (as seen in Metroid 2) is abusing the clock itself, but abusing glitches and errors in the coding is what we've ALWAYS been doing. Otherwise I'd say discredit virtually every single Metroid related speed run EVER...

This is something that has baffeled me too. Now, everyone knows my feelings on SW's, so I won't go into that again. But a few people have kept insisting that using other glitches for SB'ing is fine, but jumping our of the room's main confines to bypass some stuff isn't.

I know a line of definition has to be drawn somewhere, but surely by the use of glitches period, means that the exploitation of this glitch (i.e. SW's/wall clipping) is legit anyway. Otherwise you start reaching double standards of yea, THIS glitch is acceptable because... blah, and SW's aren't because, well y'know they were never mean't to be in the game...

What Nate and the rest of the M2k2 lot classify as legitimate is entirely up to them. As far as I'm concerned they're totally legit, even if they CAN be used in a speed run (and the IBBF route is looking much more likely to be do-able in around 4-5mins), then I'd accept them no probs.

Abusing the in-game timer (as seen in Metroid 2) is abusing the clock itself, but abusing glitches and errors in the coding is what we've ALWAYS been doing. Otherwise I'd say discredit virtually every single Metroid related speed run EVER...

Radix

2004-04-16 06:52:16 pm

The simple fact is I need generic rules across ALL games in existance. I do NOT want to have lots of exceptions for games, and in order to prevent things like the glitch in LttP that lets you finish the game in 5 minutes I ban all "out of world" and "mysterious teleporting" glitches and that's it. If you don't like it I guess you can start your own speed run site like those emulator guys already have.

Blublu

2004-04-16 07:54:21 pm

I'd say that the stuff like early space jump, and jumping off frozen metroids, etc isn't really bug exploiting, it's simply clever and skillful use of Samus' abilities and the physics of the game that the designers didn't forsee.

the don killuminati

2004-04-16 08:22:35 pm

where can i download/watch a no varia run through magmoor?

MetalRidley

2004-04-16 08:45:25 pm

Radix: Ok, I'll accept that. You're saying that since SW's actually take you out of the game world, they can't really be seen as a legit part of the game. Anyway, I'm not angry or challenging your rules or anything, just in search of clarification. Thanks.

EDIT: oh, and Blublu, no one disputes those are legit, but things the developers didn't intend = glitches to them. :?

nate

2004-04-16 08:53:20 pm

Quote from The Don Killuminati:

where can i download/watch a no varia run through magmoor?

http://samus.co.uk/

Andrew Mills

2004-04-17 07:37:11 am

Strategy Guide Writer

Radix: Totally, on your site you obviously need to standardize what YOU accept on your site. But I was talking on a more general basis, not just to have runs submitted to SDA.

Anyways, what IS this glitch to finish LttP in 5 mins!?! Shocked

Never heard of that one before...

the don killuminati

2004-04-17 08:47:33 am

woah! that video is awesome.

chinchillax13514

2004-04-17 02:20:23 pm

Andrew: They have a Glitch FAQ at GameFAQs, and it has how to beat LttP in both 15 min. and 3 min. Also a few other cool things, such as the Zelda equivalent to Secret Worlds.

Metroid Prime

2004-04-17 02:22:40 pm

I am so lost about now.

Banks

2004-04-17 05:30:36 pm

Well, until someone finds a way into the impact crater with a secret world without the artifacts (for speed running), I have no problem with grouping these new finds with the other sequence breaks.