In-game Timer

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 01:00:31 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 01:00:11 pm

2013-05-24 12:59:02 pm

Had time this afternoon to attempt a SS run. Got a little past where you get the Ice Beam and died right before Concentration would've refilled my energy while fighting those advanced sidehoppers whose name escapes me. However, since there's no saves between the 1st one in Sector 3 and where I died, I can keep going with this save since I recorded the time when I made it to that point. Won't be an SS run but as long as I can remember what time is on my TV's clock when I pass by saves I should be able to minimize errors if I end up dying again later.

So from the start of the game to the 1st save in Sector 3 I got: 54:XX RT = 01:17:16 GT
23 minutes of cutscene and whatever the gameplay is losing. Doesn't sound too bad since that includes the prologue too.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 04:29:07 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 04:26:09 pm

2013-05-24 04:25:53 pm

Ok, so the results are in. Finished the rest of the run with a final time of 04:36:20. Real Time says I only played for 03:23:XX over the course of 4 segments (54, 46, 37, 66) which means based on this...

There was roughly 01:13 of extra time added due to cutscenes and whatever is lost through gameplay. Pretty close to our earlier estimates.

That being said, if my results are accurate and that record you found really is 2:30 or so in real time, where does all of that get cut out? I admit I lost about 5 minutes alone when I had a horrible string of failures fighting some pirates, but nearly an hour faster?

JaggerG

2013-05-24 05:10:12 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Combat strategies, probably. There are a lot of forced encounters, and getting the best strategy for each of them can save a TON of time. For example, you can kill those arachnus-like creatures super quick just by bombing them and immediately lethal-striking them, and sometimes you can kill the charged up monkey guys that turn gold just by shooting a point-blank charged shot and immediately lethal-striking, but that's really inconsistent. In multi-pirate/sidehopper fights, you can actually string together overcharge attacks by jumping from one to another, as if you're trying to get a 1-up in SMB. Missing rounds on bosses that have long invulnerability periods costs tons of time, too.

I have a hard time figuring out the best attack per enemy, though, since you upgrade your beam so often. I think even after diffusion beam, missiles are still much stronger, but against the Serris-like boss, the beam appears stronger, but is it faster to fish him onto land so you can get 2 charges in, or shoot his throat and make him vulnerable to one missile instantly? Only thing that's clear is that overcharges and lethal strikes are almost as OP as SA.

As far as basic movement, it's surprising the amount of rooms you can just roll right past all the enemies. I just spring-ball over obstacles, unmorph, and remorph as soon as as I hit the ground. That spiral ramp that leads to a hole in the top of the tree in sector 1? Springball over one gap and normal jump across the next, and the tentacles don't even have time to slap you off.

I might stream a no-cutscene run later tonight. I kinda feel like I should figure out everything that stops the timer beforehand. There's one section that has no cutscenes, loading messages, or pauses, but the real time in the video is 17 seconds longer than the game time just from lag. o_o

Combat strategies, probably. There are a lot of forced encounters, and getting the best strategy for each of them can save a TON of time. For example, you can kill those arachnus-like creatures super quick just by bombing them and immediately lethal-striking them, and sometimes you can kill the charged up monkey guys that turn gold just by shooting a point-blank charged shot and immediately lethal-striking, but that's really inconsistent. In multi-pirate/sidehopper fights, you can actually string together overcharge attacks by jumping from one to another, as if you're trying to get a 1-up in SMB. Missing rounds on bosses that have long invulnerability periods costs tons of time, too.

I have a hard time figuring out the best attack per enemy, though, since you upgrade your beam so often. I think even after diffusion beam, missiles are still much stronger, but against the Serris-like boss, the beam appears stronger, but is it faster to fish him onto land so you can get 2 charges in, or shoot his throat and make him vulnerable to one missile instantly? Only thing that's clear is that overcharges and lethal strikes are almost as OP as SA.

As far as basic movement, it's surprising the amount of rooms you can just roll right past all the enemies. I just spring-ball over obstacles, unmorph, and remorph as soon as as I hit the ground. That spiral ramp that leads to a hole in the top of the tree in sector 1? Springball over one gap and normal jump across the next, and the tentacles don't even have time to slap you off.

I might stream a no-cutscene run later tonight. I kinda feel like I should figure out everything that stops the timer beforehand. There's one section that has no cutscenes, loading messages, or pauses, but the real time in the video is 17 seconds longer than the game time just from lag. o_o

Prime Hunter

2013-05-24 05:19:56 pm

So we still need to figure out how long all of the fmv cutscenes are, right? I might look for one of the Youtube videos that has Theater mode and go through it later if that's the case. It'd only take a little over an hour if my run times are accurate so it won't be too bad.

Prime Hunter

2013-05-24 08:15:41 pm

Well, guess it's time for me to brave Theater Mode.

tomatobob

2013-05-24 08:29:34 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Good luck and godspeed.

Prime Hunter

2013-05-24 09:02:15 pm

You know, after seeing a bunch of analysis on Other M's story since it's release, it really does put a bad spin on the way most of the cutscenes regarding Samus and Adam play out. I have no idea how I didn't catch any of this the first time I played through the game.

Only about a 1/4 of the way through so far (at the Exam Center currently) and I have 4 FMV cutscenes listed for approximately 11:27 total time. There's a bunch of in-game cutscenes I haven't been recording though but for now I'm just grabbing the more obvious ones.

tomatobob

2013-05-24 09:22:39 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Prime Hunter:

I have no idea how I didn't catch any of this the first time I played through the game.

You did the smart thing and didn't think much about it probably.

JaggerG

2013-05-24 10:47:23 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Uhhhhhhhh I just tested dying to find some concerning facts.

1) Kihunters have a grabbing attack that, if unreacted to, drains your health until you die. It involves picking up Samus, tangling its legs around hers, clutching her forearms forcefully, and thrusting rhythmically as it sucks on her face. Samus procedes to grunt from the sensation.

2) If you die, the timer resets to the time of the save file, but skips the loading animation. Thus, dying actually shaves several seconds off your in-game time. Every time you're forced to save, if you're aiming for in-game time, you should find a place to die real quick to restart from the save point.

These are each very disturbing facts in different senses.

Kitsune_Phoenix

2013-05-24 10:48:30 pm

Ta'kaya as "Teyla the Demiphoenix"

Other M is a weird game. Is it even accurate to call it anything besides madness incarnate?

tomatobob

2013-05-24 11:04:19 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from JaggerG:

2) If you die, the timer resets to the time of the save file, but skips the loading animation. Thus, dying actually shaves several seconds off your in-game time. Every time you're forced to save, if you're aiming for in-game time, you should find a place to die real quick to restart from the save point.

I feel like at some point in the past we had a joke about committing suicide to sequence break life, so uh... nailed it?

I'm just gonna pretend number 1 was something you made up.

Kitsune_Phoenix

2013-05-24 11:13:35 pm

Ta'kaya as "Teyla the Demiphoenix"

Quote from JaggerG:

*SFW words with NSFW implications*

"...Team Ninja would only be handling the gameplay and asthetics..."
I call bullshit.

JaggerG

2013-05-24 11:35:55 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Apparently you can observe the scene from different angles by facing different directions. And sorry, it doesn't suck on her face, it sucks on her neck. Hitting A or B escapes from it at any time, unless you're a dirty, dirty girl.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 11:46:49 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 11:45:44 pm

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 11:44:57 pm

2013-05-24 11:44:44 pm

I think that one accurately describes my reaction to reading #1... What the heck, Nintendo?

Anyway, I just now finished watching Theater Mode. If (and that's a BIG if) I wrote down all of the FMV cutscenes while I was going through this, including the credits the time came out to 01:08:47... What? That's only five minutes off from what I found earlier when I did my run today. Even if you take the credits out that still comes out to 01:03:29, meaning there's 5-10 minutes of in-game cutscene and gameplay unaccounted for based on my earlier findings. I swear there was more than that as I was watching, because that would mean close to 1/2 of Theater Mode is actual gameplay? That doesn't sound right...

Even if some of the stuff I counted isn't actually FMV it would still be something you can skip entirely so I don't think it makes too much of a difference in the end.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-24 11:50:06 pm

2013-05-24 11:49:53 pm

Although that doesn't count things like the maps and item authorization, which I left in my real time count when I was playing even though they don't add to the timer. Still, that only adds a few minutes at best over the course of a run.

JaggerG

2013-05-25 12:01:40 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

It's really hard to tell, but the time added from cutscenes has to be HIGHER than your difference, because some cutscenes you cannot skip and do not add game time, you lose several real seconds throughout the run from the time it takes to skip a cutscene once it starts (unless you hit (-) frame perfectly I guess), you lose real time due to loading and lag, etc.

The first time someone linked a youtube vid of other m: the movie, I added up like 1:53 from cutscenes. I'm sure some of them do NOT count, but probably at least an hour and 20 minutes of them do.

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-25 12:25:00 am

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-25 12:22:20 am

2013-05-25 12:21:28 am

True, but again I wasn't counting every single cutscene when I was going through this, just the FMV ones. (Or those I thought were FMV ones, anyway). You're right in that you lose a few seconds each time you go to skip them, but that too would only add a few minutes over the course of the run if I had to guess. I'm pretty sure most of the ones I grabbed are among the ones you can skip though since I was attempting to avoid the in-game cutscenes which tend to be shorter and spliced in between gameplay segments.

Either way our numbers still aren't adding up right now. Most of the cutscene time I counted (about 50 minutes) comes after you first talk to MB before she sends you off to Sector Zero, which is maybe 2/3 of way through the game if you include post-game. That 1:20 estimate is pretty close to what I timed both here and with my run earlier though, so I'd say that's probably close to what we're looking for.

Prime Hunter

2013-05-25 12:58:47 am

I just thought of something else. We haven't tried doing a run of the game recently that simply lets all of the cutscenes play out, have we?
If I use my most recent run as an example, let's say it takes me that extra 1:20 real time to get through the game, playing at roughly the same skill level as I did previously, and I get a final time that's pretty much the same as my first run. That would be a pretty solid indicator of how much time we cut out from skipping those same cutscenes, wouldn't it?

It wouldn't tell us how much the lag, maps, etc. cut out but it would help narrow things down a bit. Could also clue us in on whether or not all of those cutscenes I just calculated are in fact included in the timer.

JaggerG

Edit history:

JaggerG: 2013-05-25 01:22:41 am

2013-05-25 01:20:27 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Yeah, I streamed my recent playthrough, not skipping ANY cutscenes at all, and I go back to the main menu after every save to check in-game time one section at a time. It's FAR less informed, and thus much longer, than a run if I did one today, so more videos could still help. Archived video is here. I just finished adding up stuff through Sector 1 (ending in sector 3 after chasing stage-2 Ridley):

start - save = save time (segment time) (time added from cutscenes)
10:09 - 22:48 = 12:39 (12:39) (+4:20,+3:27,+:43,+:07)
23:50 - 29:47 = 18:36 (5:57) (+2:32,+:45)
31:01 - 41:40 = 23:41 (5:05) (+3:23)
42:48 - 45:47 = 26:35 (2:54)
47:02 - 50:07 = 29:33 (2:58)
51:17 - 53:53 = 32:03 (2:30) (lizards)
55:06 - 1:03:49 = 40:27 (8:24) (+:56,+32,+:17,???)
1:04:57 - 1:09:46 = 45:15 (4:48)
1:10:57 - 1:16:46 = 50:35 (5:20)
1:17:49 - 1:27:23 = 59:47 (9:12) (+:25,+1:06)
1:28:31 - 1:37:31 = 1:08:30 (8:43)
1:38:47 - 1:42:57 = 1:12:37 (4:07)
1:44:00 - 1:45:06 = 1:13:41 (1:04)
1:45:59 - 1:48:55 = 1:16:36 (2:55) (+1:23)
1:49:47 - 1:57:55 = 1:24:36 (8:00) (+:12,+:26,+2:28,+:21)
1:58:52 - 2:07:23 = 1:30:46 (6:10) (+1:01,+1:07,+:27,+1:19)

Note: I added up the time not counted in-game but counted real time, but then I deleted the numbers because I thought I might confuse myself. This at least provides the time of the cutscenes I'm pretty sure are added even if you skip them. Sorry I don't have timestamps for the cutscenes themselves, but you can guess them based on the amount of time that's added to each segment. Maybe you can use this to cross-reference the scenes you included in the movie.

Since I've added up to Sector 3, I guess it's a good enough time to take a break and stream a cutscene skip single segment run. http://twitch.tv/jaggerg

Yeah, I streamed my recent playthrough, not skipping ANY cutscenes at all, and I go back to the main menu after every save to check in-game time one section at a time. It's FAR less informed, and thus much longer, than a run if I did one today, so more videos could still help. Archived video is [url=http://www.twitch.tv/jaggerg/b/405831138]here[/url]. I just finished adding up stuff through Sector 1 (ending in sector 3 after chasing stage-2 Ridley):

start - save = save time (segment time) (time added from cutscenes)
10:09 - 22:48 = 12:39 (12:39) (+4:20,+3:27,+:43,+:07)
23:50 - 29:47 = 18:36 (5:57) (+2:32,+:45)
31:01 - 41:40 = 23:41 (5:05) (+3:23)
42:48 - 45:47 = 26:35 (2:54)
47:02 - 50:07 = 29:33 (2:58) 
51:17 - 53:53 = 32:03 (2:30) (lizards)
55:06 - 1:03:49 = 40:27 (8:24) (+:56,+32,+:17,???)
1:04:57 - 1:09:46 = 45:15 (4:48)
1:10:57 - 1:16:46 = 50:35 (5:20)
1:17:49 - 1:27:23 = 59:47 (9:12) (+:25,+1:06)
1:28:31 - 1:37:31 = 1:08:30 (8:43)
1:38:47 - 1:42:57 = 1:12:37 (4:07)
1:44:00 - 1:45:06 = 1:13:41 (1:04)
1:45:59 - 1:48:55 = 1:16:36 (2:55) (+1:23)
1:49:47 - 1:57:55 = 1:24:36 (8:00) (+:12,+:26,+2:28,+:21)
1:58:52 - 2:07:23 = 1:30:46 (6:10) (+1:01,+1:07,+:27,+1:19)

Note: I added up the time not counted in-game but counted real time, but then I deleted the numbers because I thought I might confuse myself. This at least provides the time of the cutscenes I'm pretty sure are added even if you skip them. Sorry I don't have timestamps for the cutscenes themselves, but you can guess them based on the amount of time that's added to each segment. Maybe you can use this to cross-reference the scenes you included in the movie.

Since I've added up to Sector 3, I guess it's a good enough time to take a break and stream a cutscene skip single segment run. http://twitch.tv/jaggerg

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-25 03:59:02 am

2013-05-25 03:58:48 am

Glad I decided to finally make a Twitch account before checking out your stream. Hope I was able to help you out with some of my suggestions.

JaggerG

2013-05-25 05:04:45 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

Yeah, thanks for the info.

So Ridley and on add a HUGE chunk of time in-game. I started to pull even leading up, but in the end, it resulted in 4:16:30 in-game for about 3:28 streaming, minus all those deaths and resets to account for.

I'm also curious if you can overcharge Phantoon more than the once at the very end. I recall doing so, but it must be rather circumstancial?

Prime Hunter

Edit history:

Prime Hunter: 2013-05-25 12:55:24 pm

2013-05-25 12:53:49 pm

I seem to remember doing that once or twice now that you mention it, but I have no idea how since I haven't been able to do it in these more recent runs. I usually end up just blasting him a ton with the charge beam thanks to how often you can use sensemove in that battle. Probably not the most efficient way to battle him but it still works.

And yeah, the in-game timer inflates like crazy from the moment you chase the Deleter back into Sector 1 and run into MB again. Most of the game's major cutscenes take place from there and don't let up until you finish the credits. There's only about two and a half minutes of cutscene once you start the post game segment, but between MB and the credits is a whopping 49 minutes of added content alone, not counting any in-game cutscenes on top of that. (MB explains Sector Zero, At Sector Zero with Adam, Final Confrontation with MB after the Queen)

Prime Hunter

2013-05-25 01:14:03 pm

With that list you posted it just reminds me how much time passes between some of these FMV cutscenes. The ones I have seem to only go up to the 3rd one on your list (Talking about Samus' past after they defeat the purple slime boss) and then there's about 30 minutes of Theater Mode unaccounted for until the next one. (The one about Ian after you rescue Anthony from the Seeker Missile bug in Sector 3) I have nothing tracked in-between that point even though there's a ton of cutscenes around the time you get to the Exam Center.

I'm thinking it might be a good idea for me to go through Theater Mode again later and catch all of those in-game ones I bypassed since they do count on the timer and can be skipped. Would give us two lists to compare at the very least and it would make it easier to time the cutscenes that switch back and forth between in-game and FMV at times.

JaggerG

2013-05-25 07:49:42 pm

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

It's so odd that half the cutscenes around the purple monster don't count, but almost everything else I've timed does. O_o

JaggerG

2013-05-27 01:24:33 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

I think you lose at least 15 seconds throughout sector 3 due to lag in a run. There are some rooms that appear to lose a second every 50 seconds or so. I think the first recording lost over 30. ;>_> but still, I'm either severely underestimating the lag, or one of the boss cutscenes don't count. None of the cutscenes in sector 3's first visit are skippable.

But more bizarrely, I'm missing 7 seconds in the elevator to sector 2 segment, and there are no cutscenes O_o I think I stood just before a door frame for about that long, so that's a bit suspicious. Gonna check it out in the morning.