Hear the words of O-Lir, last Sentinel of the Fortress Temple. May they serve you well.
Thread title:
video?
thread:
1 page
Archived M2K2 Forum
This is cool. It is quite unexpected that the thing that raises your percent doesn't disappear immediately afterwards by how its coded.
So Echoes and Corruption both have 101% and infinite% (with the Corruption ones found by rekameohs LINK).
Any ideas on how to try something similar in Prime? These ideas for single or mulitple duplications could be used in Echoes/Corruption too.
- wrong-room aquire an item (located the right distance away from the base room) just frames before the room is dumped? (TAS) This is most similar to what Miles did.
- does OP's fight still happen if wrong-roomed?
- Wave Beam probably can be gotten once, otherwise IS and OOB work would have shown otherwise.
- AR Floaty Jump away from Thardus or OP (after initial cutscene) and get IS in an adjacent wrong room?
- Someone (and I can't find it) tried/did get the game to do two things at once (mimicing Miles' cutscene + teleport) in Mine Security Station by going in backwards. Either Flamethrower + pirate cutscene or (less interesting for this discussion) security panel cutscene + pirate cutscene.
So Echoes and Corruption both have 101% and infinite% (with the Corruption ones found by rekameohs LINK).
Any ideas on how to try something similar in Prime? These ideas for single or mulitple duplications could be used in Echoes/Corruption too.
- wrong-room aquire an item (located the right distance away from the base room) just frames before the room is dumped? (TAS) This is most similar to what Miles did.
- does OP's fight still happen if wrong-roomed?
- Wave Beam probably can be gotten once, otherwise IS and OOB work would have shown otherwise.
- AR Floaty Jump away from Thardus or OP (after initial cutscene) and get IS in an adjacent wrong room?
- Someone (and I can't find it) tried/did get the game to do two things at once (mimicing Miles' cutscene + teleport) in Mine Security Station by going in backwards. Either Flamethrower + pirate cutscene or (less interesting for this discussion) security panel cutscene + pirate cutscene.
It doesn't work in MP1 because the percentage counter works differently in that game. MP2 and 3 track a "percentage" value that is incremented when you collect an item. MP1 actually generates the percentage value based on the contents of your inventory. Three good examples that demonstrate how it works:
- If you collect all four PB expansions before the main PBs, your percent will actually drop by 2 instead of increasing by 1 - the game assumes that because you have four PBs max, that you only have the main PBs and no expansions.
- There's a hacked 101% save on GameFAQs that has 255 missiles. If you collect a missile refill, your missile max will drop down to 250 and you'll drop back to 100%.
- It's the reason why the Phazon Suit doesn't count toward the % counter. The game removes it from your inventory during the ending, so if it counted, you would always have 99% on the mission final screen even if you collected everything.
- If you collect all four PB expansions before the main PBs, your percent will actually drop by 2 instead of increasing by 1 - the game assumes that because you have four PBs max, that you only have the main PBs and no expansions.
- There's a hacked 101% save on GameFAQs that has 255 missiles. If you collect a missile refill, your missile max will drop down to 250 and you'll drop back to 100%.
- It's the reason why the Phazon Suit doesn't count toward the % counter. The game removes it from your inventory during the ending, so if it counted, you would always have 99% on the mission final screen even if you collected everything.
Anywhere, everywhere
Quote from Parax:
- It's the reason why the Phazon Suit doesn't count toward the % counter. The game removes it from your inventory during the ending, so if it counted, you would always have 99% on the mission final screen even if you collected everything.
Oh, wow. Didn't know that one. That's pretty neat!
Oh well. So does that mean that the item is either in your inventory, or it remains to be picked up (example: stored in an array where the value is 0(uncollected) or 1(collected))? So items like missiles, PBs or energy tanks cannot be duplicated, and simultaniously they cannot disappear uncollected? If ILS happened (it wont) then Morph Ball, Varia, etc pickups would be missing (or are those early items different)? If we could retrigger item loss at Landing Site, would the items go back to their pickup locations?
How about the 2nd Phazon Suit (also in Elite Quarters)? What kind of item is that? Miles must have tested it when working on the randomizer, but I cannot find any relevant posts.
How about the 2nd Phazon Suit (also in Elite Quarters)? What kind of item is that? Miles must have tested it when working on the randomizer, but I cannot find any relevant posts.
I believe the way it works is that the inventory contains a value for each pickup type indicating how many of that pickup you have. That setting is capped at different values for different pickup types. Most pickups are capped at 1 for obvious reasons, but some (like missiles) go higher.
As far as individual pickups disappearing when you already have them, no, that won't happen; pickups don't check your inventory. When you collect an important upgrade, it triggers an object in the room called a Memory Relay that saves the state of that pickup. The Memory Relay keeps the same value even when the room or save file is reloaded, so it's how the game knows not to spawn that pickup again next time you enter the room. (Memory Relays are also used for other things, like to disable a cutscene trigger after you finish watching the cutscene. The 255% trick probably works because the Memory Relay that flags the Cobalt Translator cutscene as having been watched isn't flagged until the end of the cutscene.)
I'm not really sure what the deal is with the second Phazon Suit, but probably all it is is just two different Phazon Suit pickups - one you collect during OP's death cutscene and another one that you spawn on top of at the end of the cutscene. I've only ever seen one Phazon Suit pickup in that room in my editor (trivia: it uses the Gravity Suit pickup model) so I'm not sure where the other one is.
As far as individual pickups disappearing when you already have them, no, that won't happen; pickups don't check your inventory. When you collect an important upgrade, it triggers an object in the room called a Memory Relay that saves the state of that pickup. The Memory Relay keeps the same value even when the room or save file is reloaded, so it's how the game knows not to spawn that pickup again next time you enter the room. (Memory Relays are also used for other things, like to disable a cutscene trigger after you finish watching the cutscene. The 255% trick probably works because the Memory Relay that flags the Cobalt Translator cutscene as having been watched isn't flagged until the end of the cutscene.)
I'm not really sure what the deal is with the second Phazon Suit, but probably all it is is just two different Phazon Suit pickups - one you collect during OP's death cutscene and another one that you spawn on top of at the end of the cutscene. I've only ever seen one Phazon Suit pickup in that room in my editor (trivia: it uses the Gravity Suit pickup model) so I'm not sure where the other one is.