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Serujisu
2004-12-14 06:27:26 pm
Personally, I'm not a big fan of game magazines.... but my roomate is, so I read 'em. Anyway, in this month's, they have an interview with Mark Pacini, the game directer at Retro. Since it's probably plagarism or something, I won't type it out verbatim, but he says how he was surprised that gamer's didn't focus on beating Prime with %100 completion, so much as low completion, or speed running. Also, he say's that Echoes was designed to be unbreakable. HA! Just thought you'd all be interested....
Thread title: 
arkarian
2004-12-14 06:36:24 pm
red chamber dream
Well beating it with 100% completion is incredibly easy. I got 100% Items and Logbook entries (so, 200%) my first time through the game, without any help. It was far easier than Prime I. As for unbreakable, ha!
Serujisu
2004-12-14 06:55:26 pm
Oh, further on, they say the fastest that anyone at Retro could be the game was "roughly seven hours". What have you all gotten it down to again ? Wink
Random Zelda Person
2004-12-14 08:03:48 pm
Dude... on my second run, I got two hours faster than that, without sequence breaking at all, and I am not all that good.  Retro must suck or something...
airdevil
2004-12-14 08:13:12 pm
Quote from Random Zelda Person:
Dude... on my second run, I got two hours faster than that, without sequence breaking at all, and I'm not all that good.  Retro must suck or something...


I should work for Retro!  I suck even more than they do!  I could be CEO or something...
Serujisu
2004-12-14 08:15:52 pm
Yeah, I could even get a job as 'official speed runner'! Hell... I'd need the job, and it'd segway nicely into the game degisn/programming position I so desperately need...
Prime Hunter
2004-12-14 08:57:25 pm
I think it would be interesting for Retro to hire some of us to see what we can and cannot do with a game like this... The only downside is that most of the stuff that would be found would most likely be fixed before the final version, so there goes THAT plan.  Embarassed

I mean, it's been what, a month and we almost have it down to 3 hours ALREADY?  Laughing (And don't forget that 21% looks like it could happen eventually too!)

Either Retro totally underestimates us, or they are pretty bad at speed running...  Wink

Edit: Now then, off to see if I can tackle Quad finally on my newest run and get a time below 3:30...
arkarian
2004-12-14 09:39:49 pm
red chamber dream
Yeah, a lot of the people here are way better players than ANYONE at Retro.
Radix
2004-12-14 10:53:08 pm
I got 5:53 my 2nd full time through the game, getting 100% scans/items and writing my walkthrough as I went. I made TONS of wrong turns.  Yet I still get over an hour more than the best they could do? Clearly they don't even play their own game from start to end.  And by their comment about thinking people would only care about 100%, clearly they think people only play the game once, get 100% and that's it.  Sorry Retro, but you don't undrestand us at all. Playing a game once does not equal $50 of entertainment.  We play it lots of times to get our moneys worth, including things like no tank/no missile runs.  Whoever made Metroid Zero Mission understands that... Mark Pacini clearly does not.
Blublu
2004-12-15 12:42:40 am
Well, maybe he meant 7 hours in real-time with coffee breaks as opposed to in-game time. Also, "roughly 7 hours" could mean as little as 6 and a half hour. Mmmm, yeah...... :P

I don't understand why they want the game to be totally unbreakable. Luckily for us, they failed to make it so (this time).
Arrow
2004-12-15 03:14:07 am
They probably exaggerated about the time it took them to complete the game, since this was being printed in EGM. If they said "We were able to beat it in 4 hours", then a lot of people reading the interview might read that and think "Woah, that game is short. Forget it, I'm not buying that." In this case, the longer they make it sound, the better.
Serujisu
2004-12-15 05:08:12 am
Hmm... yeah, that sounds about right... Curse you propagandized media! This goes back to why I don't read game magazines... that, and because they cater to the casual gamer.
Red Scarlet
2004-12-15 06:01:50 am
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
I miss Gamefan..  :(
Solr_Flare
2004-12-15 10:33:54 am
Regarding the designed to be unbreakable statement.  Note the key word "designed".  I think we can all pretty much tell they at least tried to design it to be unbreakable.  It isn't, of course, but then again we havn't gotten it down to a 21% game yet either.  So, in that respect, they have succeeded so far at least.
nate
2004-12-15 01:15:29 pm
that's all you saw of interest in this month's issue of egm?  Rolling Eyes
Alec
2004-12-15 02:59:59 pm
Quote from Solr_Flare:
Regarding the designed to be unbreakable statement.  Note the key word "designed".  I think we can all pretty much tell they at least tried to design it to be unbreakable.  It isn't, of course, but then again we havn't gotten it down to a 21% game yet either.  So, in that respect, they have succeeded so far at least.
Making certain items forceable unto (correctly worded?) the player can't be that hard. They could've forced us to get 99% of the items if they really wanted. Really wanted :)
arkarian
2004-12-15 03:25:34 pm
red chamber dream
I would throw the game out the window if that happened. well, no, I'd still love it...
Serujisu
2004-12-15 04:21:49 pm
Oh, also in this month's EGM is a preview for Minish Cap.... which looks good. Oh, and they have 10-13 year olds play old games. What particularly angered me is the lack of respect for the original Zelda, and Gunstar Heros  Crying or Very sad
GreenMamba
2004-12-15 04:53:50 pm
What luck, there's french fry stuck in my beard.
They're young and stupid.  That's all.
Random Zelda Person
2004-12-15 06:25:10 pm
Quote from Blublu:
I don't understand why they want the game to be totally unbreakable.


Sequence breaking utilizes bugs.  Game designers view bugs as "bad", no matter how beneficial they are to the life span of a game.

Ironically, by Retro making it so hard to break and then having it still be broken makes them look even worse.  Silly Retro!
SABERinBLUE
2004-12-15 07:39:54 pm
Cook of the Sea
Quote from Random Zelda Person:
Quote from Blublu:
I don't understand why they want the game to be totally unbreakable.


Sequence breaking utilizes bugs.  Game designers view bugs as "bad", no matter how beneficial they are to the life span of a game.

Ironically, by Retro making it so hard to break and then having it still be broken makes them look even worse.  Silly Retro!


Well, so long as they don't Fusionize the sequence again, I don't think that they'll ever be able to block off sequence breaking in a Metroid game.  In a way, it's almost like a game within a game.  The Metroid l337 sequence break the hell out of one game, and then in the next game it's harder to do.  Then they eventually do that one too, and the next one's harder, and so forth.
theabominable
2004-12-17 07:12:00 pm
I wonder what the limit for low % is in echoes...

I'd take a guess at 20%
tman
2004-12-17 08:35:42 pm
Quote from Serujisu:
Oh, and they have 10-13 year olds play old games. What particularly angered me is the lack of respect for the original Zelda, and Gunstar Heros  Crying or Very sad

off topic. but i wonder how much they'd like viewtiful joe :?
Serujisu
2004-12-18 06:27:29 am
I'm not sure. From what I've noticed, gaming nowadays doesn't depend much on what's fun, but what's "cool". I've only played a little bit of VJ, but I guess it could be classified under "cool" (therefore, the kids would probably like it).

The interesting thing about this is that most of us, I imagine, were outcast when we were little because we played video games (since they weren't all that popular). Now were pretty much the same outcasts becasue we aren't oggling at Halo, or the next sports game...

Sorry for ranting... it's just that very few people today actually appreciate games for being fun... instead of what looks good. It makes me angry...
Prime Hunter
2004-12-18 07:46:47 am
Yeah, it makes me think of how Metroid is only awesome to a select crowd (Aka, us  Wink ) and not as popular as most other series. It seems more and more people these days are into shooters and multiplayer, and not exploration and using your brain. There is still enough people who like those types since they still sell pretty good though.

If you didn't notice, or if I haven't said it somewhere yet, my family has been playing games since the NES (When I was about 2 or 3 I think: I was born in 86, right around the birth of the NES) So, we have many of the classics hanging around that I play every once in a while. (Games like the original Zelda, Metroid, Super Mario, Battletoads, etc...)

Now that I say that though, you'vd gotta wonder why Zelda is as popular as it is... It's kinda the same style of play, isn't it? (Besides the whole story/quest aspect anyway.) Eh, I guess it's just whatever you like in a game...  :?

(Oh, and Zelda does happen to be my 2nd favorite series too  8))