In defence of the Ridley Crybaby scene

2011-12-22 12:53:22 am

Not to stir the pot or try to start something, but maybe the producers of the game wanted to just add some character to Samus? Everyone is used to Super Badass Metroid Slayer Samus Aran. They probably just wanted to add some kind of weak side to her so people'll not see her as a robot bounty hunter, but an actual human being.

Just my 2 cents on the matter.

Turtle

2011-12-22 01:04:15 am

I like turtles.

False dichotomy. It's possible to make her human and even give her weaknesses without turning her into what she was in Other M. The previous installments had, in my opinion, done a pretty good job of writing her long before this game came about.

Most people don't have a problem with putting more emphasis on Samus' character development. They just get a little annoyed when it's done so poorly.

darkpower

2012-01-17 04:30:38 am

First off, wasn't Prime said to be an AR story arc, anyway? I thought that was told a while back that it wasn't official canon.

Now, as for the PTSD scene, I was angry, but for a different reason. I heard all the controversy, was wanting to see this whole scene about Samus breaking down like a Toyota, but I instead got a 10-20 second scene before the fight. I was like "this was it? THIS is what they were bitching about?" I was then like "they SO did not want ME to do that scene". That's because I would've teared the whiners a new asshole with what I would've done.

But I'm not actually surprised that they didn't do that much with that scene because it seemed as though Team Ninja was trying so hard to get around the Wii's technical limitations. It's the least powerful out of the three current gen systems (second is the 360, and the most powerful right now is the PS3). The rendered scenes had that slight pixelation to them to show that the Wii's hardware couldn't render the FMV's properly. Team Ninja had to cut corners to get their vision to work, and I bet a lot of what they wanted to do ended up on the cutting room floor. They did show the hint, but not many would've gotten it unless they knew where the hint came from.

However, I know a good bit about PTSD and how it affects people, especially the military. If anyone has any doubts about what PTSD can do, I can suggest a good movie to watch called "In The Valley Of Elah", where a serviceman's father investigates his sudden disappearance after coming home from serving in Iraq. It turns out to be a murder mystery followed by a conspiracy by the US government to cover up that the soldiers that were coming home had experienced PTSD. It's a great movie (Tommy Lee Jones and Charlize Theron star in it), and would shed some light on the subject.

Fact is that the scene did get people to talk about PTSD, in a matter of speaking. Of course, some people can't get past their "this game sucks and those who like it should kill themselves" routine to really care to understand it. I did because I followed a lot about the wars we waged following 9/11 and how the Bush Administration lied to us about why we went into Iraq to begin with (side note: Saddam never had WMDs and hated Al Quedia just as much as we did).

I would want to see a visual of what Samus saw. Ridley going around nuking things a la Deathwing, and her having to see her parents burned alive by him. I'm also interested in how she's able to let her fears make her stronger. It's an interesting concept worth exploring into more. Perhaps there's something in her suit that let's her able to suppress her memories and fears which malfunctioned for a reason that she would have to discover later on in her life. Perhaps the influx of deep, painful memories all at once during the mission left her having to suppress more than the suit was able to handle, so some things got through and hurt her.

Untimely, I think the scene made her more human, and made us connect with her more. She has her flaws now, and because of that, she becomes someone that we can relate to. And remember, she did get over her fears and emotions and kicked ass afterwards. Perhaps that's why she's always been able to kick so much ass: her emotions and fears drive her to do the right thing, like any soldier would do (believe me, if you don't think a soldier would get scared shitless on a battlefield when he knows that he could die at any moment protecting his or her country, then you have a LOT to learn about the military: don't think for a second that they don't experience fear).

First off, wasn't Prime said to be an AR story arc, anyway? I thought that was told a while back that it wasn't official canon.

Now, as for the PTSD scene, I was angry, but for a different reason. I heard all the controversy, was wanting to see this whole scene about Samus breaking down like a Toyota, but I instead got a 10-20 second scene before the fight. I was like "this was it? THIS is what they were bitching about?" I was then like "they SO did not want ME to do that scene". That's because I would've teared the whiners a new asshole with what I would've done.

But I'm not actually surprised that they didn't do that much with that scene because it seemed as though Team Ninja was trying so hard to get around the Wii's technical limitations. It's the least powerful out of the three current gen systems (second is the 360, and the most powerful right now is the PS3). The rendered scenes had that slight pixelation to them to show that the Wii's hardware couldn't render the FMV's properly. Team Ninja had to cut corners to get their vision to work, and I bet a lot of what they wanted to do ended up on the cutting room floor. They did show the hint, but not many would've gotten it unless they knew where the hint came from.

However, I know a good bit about PTSD and how it affects people, especially the military. If anyone has any doubts about what PTSD can do, I can suggest a good movie to watch called "In The Valley Of Elah", where a serviceman's father investigates his sudden disappearance after coming home from serving in Iraq. It turns out to be a murder mystery followed by a conspiracy by the US government to cover up that the soldiers that were coming home had experienced PTSD. It's a great movie (Tommy Lee Jones and Charlize Theron star in it), and would shed some light on the subject.

Fact is that the scene did get people to talk about PTSD, in a matter of speaking. Of course, some people can't get past their "this game sucks and those who like it should kill themselves" routine to really care to understand it. I did because I followed a lot about the wars we waged following 9/11 and how the Bush Administration lied to us about why we went into Iraq to begin with (side note: Saddam never had WMDs and hated Al Quedia just as much as we did).

I would want to see a visual of what Samus saw. Ridley going around nuking things a la Deathwing, and her having to see her parents burned alive by him. I'm also interested in how she's able to let her fears make her stronger. It's an interesting concept worth exploring into more. Perhaps there's something in her suit that let's her able to suppress her memories and fears which malfunctioned for a reason that she would have to discover later on in her life. Perhaps the influx of deep, painful memories all at once during the mission left her having to suppress more than the suit was able to handle, so some things got through and hurt her.

Untimely, I think the scene made her more human, and made us connect with her more. She has her flaws now, and because of that, she becomes someone that we can relate to. And remember, she did get over her fears and emotions and kicked ass afterwards. Perhaps that's why she's always been able to kick so much ass: her emotions and fears drive her to do the right thing, like any soldier would do (believe me, if you don't think a soldier would get scared shitless on a battlefield when he knows that he could die at any moment protecting his or her country, then you have a LOT to learn about the military: don't think for a second that they don't experience fear).

sabata2

2012-01-17 11:22:53 pm

ANKOKU

The Prime series was a side story, not non-canon.

UchihaSasuke

2012-01-18 03:18:16 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

FMV's have nothing to do with the system's actual power. they're just a video.

the issue with prime's canon status came from an interview that they later cleared up.

creXALBO

Edit history:

creXALBO: 2012-02-03 10:51:44 am

2012-02-03 10:51:08 am

Part-time philosopher

Samus's encounters with Ridley (i might have forgotten some):

Metroid: badass
Metroid Prime: badass
Metroid Prime 3 (both times): badass
Super Metroid: badass
MOM: whiny baby

One of these things just doesn't belong here.

ShadowMario3

2012-02-08 10:15:14 pm

Honestly dunno why people are still trying to say the Prime games aren't canon. There were two official timelines showing that Prime was canon, and Sakamoto has said in multiple interviews that they were side stories, but still canon.

UchihaSasuke

2012-02-09 03:48:41 am

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

Nintendo (wrongly) made a statement that the prime series weren't canon. they later took back that statement by saying the games are canon.
i guess that stuck in place for some people since the shock was big for some at the time.

kesvalk

2012-02-17 06:47:15 am

Indie Lover

you guys are still discussing this scene? why everyone keep talking about that and not about the 4 badass, awesome boss fights they threw in AFTER the scene?

c'mon, you fight ridley, nightmare, queen metroid and phantoon in a row, and all of these fights were amazing...
ppl whine too much about this small details...

tomatobob

2012-02-17 06:52:19 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Counterpoint: Those fights all actually sucked.

kesvalk

2012-02-17 07:37:36 am

Indie Lover

i think they're awesome.

tomatobob

2012-02-17 07:55:04 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

They're awesome if you like mashing the d-pad a bunch I guess. That's really all there is to Nightmare and Phantoon, you do have to stop to super missile Ridley now and then I suppose but he just stands there and lets you do it. Metroid Queen was a clusterfuck of stupid that ended by asking you do act in a manner the game had never trained you to act in and even knowing what to do the window in which to do it is smaller than it seems like and you can find yourself having to do it again because the game can bother to be consistent in its design.

creXALBO

2012-02-17 10:33:12 am

Part-time philosopher

I'm honestly scared to see what Metroid 5 looks like... No sequence breaking MOM :( I want my glitchfest back.

Metroid is turning into crap. I don't want to be told what to do. I don't want you to hold my hand because i am awesome enough to bring down civilizations; i think i can handle a mysterious bottle. I don't want to listen to Adam think he's all high and mighty in that control booth of his while us suckers are being picked off one by one. I want to go fall through floors and use Screw Attack and chase down that "Deleter" or whatever dramatic name you can come up with and tell him to EAT PLASMA BEAM SUCKER because i am badass and awesome and you're just a Halo copycat.

MOM is dramatic teeny-bopper BS. It shouldn't be a Metroid game.

Quote from UchihaSasuke:

with how easily the feds can clone shit, it would be possible that Other M's Samus is a clone.

If only...

tomatobob

2012-02-17 05:24:23 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from creXALBO:

I want to go fall through floors and use Screw Attack and chase down that "Deleter" or whatever dramatic name you can come up with and tell him to EAT PLASMA BEAM SUCKER because i am badass and awesome and you're just a Halo copycat.

A lot of what was wrong with Other M actually could have been fixed by just letting Samus actually do anything at all, narratively speaking she accomplishes precisely fuck all.

RozoWut?

2012-04-20 07:27:46 am

In short: The game was Good Shit and metroid is going down hill. END

TJF588

2012-05-08 02:41:23 am

once GameFAQs, now Twitch

LINK BUMP!

But then, in trying to find this video (trying to remember which of his, um, show harem housed it), I found this one. Didn't turn the volume on but long enough to now start imagining Viridian as a Space Marine, but read many of the comments. Seems like it's a not-dumb negative criticism of a person whose works I like (and largely believe to agree with), and my eyes itch. This is no time for me to get in any kind of acceptance-of-differing-views mode.

Anyway, Nightmare and a Queen Metroid?! Even if the fights turn to be lame, I just wanna see that for myself! But wait...Nightmare first showed up post-MOM-time. Is it the same one? Does it look less crapped up in MOM? Does it have the same music? (This last one's probably the most important to me.)

But, hey, I'll try to be on-topic, despite having only played the very beginning of MOM. Wonder what Ridley was thinking during that battle. Tbob sez he just sits there and takes it. Wonder if he's getting stupefied by Samus's sudden righteous fury. "Ha HA! Check it, child. Time after time, I'm still kicking while you're weaker than even the last time we clashed. Watch as I kill your dudes in your base, here. Gonna make a move? Thought so. Let's see if this snaps you outta it. *kills Tony*"

...I'm so sorry. I'll go to bed, now.

[url=http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-58-heavens-metroid-revisited]LINK BUMP![/url]

But then, in trying to find this video (trying to remember which of his, um, show harem housed it), I found [url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fgN2klk7sF4]this one[/url]. Didn't turn the volume on but long enough to now start imagining Viridian as a Space Marine, but read many of the comments. Seems like it's a not-dumb negative criticism of a person whose works I like (and largely believe to agree with), and my eyes itch. This is no time for me to get in any kind of acceptance-of-differing-views mode.

Anyway, Nightmare and a Queen Metroid?! Even if the fights turn to be lame, I just wanna see that for myself! But wait...Nightmare first showed up post-MOM-time. Is it the same one? Does it look less crapped up in MOM? Does it have the same music? (This last one's probably the most important to me.)

But, hey, I'll try to be on-topic, despite having only played the very beginning of MOM. Wonder what Ridley was thinking during that battle. Tbob sez he just sits there and takes it. Wonder if he's getting stupefied by Samus's sudden righteous fury. "Ha HA! Check it, child. Time after time, I'm still kicking while you're weaker than even the last time we clashed. Watch as I kill your dudes in your base, here. Gonna make a move? Thought so. Let's see if this [i]snaps[/i] you outta it. *kills Tony*"

...I'm so sorry. I'll go to bed, now.

tomatobob

2012-05-08 03:14:07 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from TJF588:

LINK BUMP!

There's plenty wrong in that video that we've discussed in a different thread a long time ago. Guess the other video covers some of it (it's been a while), but that video also kind of flys to the opposite end of the overthinker's silly opinions on race and gender representations in japanese games by making it seem like western games aren't also very guilty of it. It's a medium wide issue, Other M just gets singled out for being so egregious and being perceived in such opposition to the rest of the series. If the overthinker guy really wanted to wave it off like he did and also sound less like a complete idiot he could have used the fact that Metroid's actually done plenty of dumb fanservice-y things with Samus since forever. He'd be slightly less wrong at at least.

Quote from TJF588:

But wait...Nightmare first showed up post-MOM-time. Is it the same one? Does it look less crapped up in MOM? Does it have the same music? (This last one's probably the most important to me.)

No, depends on what you mean by crapped up but he's less interesting, and absolutely not.

[quote="TJF588"][url=http://www.screwattack.com/shows/partners/game-overthinker/game-overthinker-episode-58-heavens-metroid-revisited]LINK BUMP![/url][/quote]
There's plenty wrong in that video that we've discussed in a different thread a long time ago. Guess the other video covers some of it (it's been a while), but that video also kind of flys to the opposite end of the overthinker's silly opinions on race and gender representations in japanese games by making it seem like western games aren't also very guilty of it. It's a medium wide issue, Other M just gets singled out for being so egregious and being perceived in such opposition to the rest of the series. If the overthinker guy really wanted to wave it off like he did and also sound less like a complete idiot he could have used the fact that Metroid's actually done plenty of dumb fanservice-y things with Samus since forever. He'd be slightly less wrong at at least.

[quote="TJF588"]But wait...Nightmare first showed up post-MOM-time. Is it the same one? Does it look less crapped up in MOM? Does it have the same music? (This last one's probably the most important to me.)[/quote]
No, depends on what you mean by crapped up but he's less interesting, and absolutely not.

tomatobob

2012-05-08 03:44:39 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

http://www.screwattack.com/news/seed-doubt-or-metroid-other-m-sexist
Ok, this article that was linked on the same page as the video is making me legitimately angry. People didn't find Other M sexist because of one reviewer you jackass, they found it sexist because that's what it was. You never heard people use that word in context of game reviews before because the field was and is primarily a bunch of nerdy dudes whose only concept of repression and discrimination is likely being shoved into lockers and/or called fat by the big mean jocks. Their understanding of social issues doesn't extend beyond their immense gravitational field. It's not like you had to look hard to find the issues with Other M, it doesn't try to hide them, and just like you it probably doesn't even know why there's a problem because it's rooted in the mind of a man who has never had to give everything they had just to get on equal footing with other men.

And that reviewer didn't base her opinion solely on Samus taking orders from a guy, there was plenty more to it. Don't go around discrediting well thought out reviews by suggesting that this one review that your dumb white nerd man brain couldn't understand because you can't get over yourself for five minutes and look around literally raped your fellows into believing there's a significant issue with the game that clearly would not exist if that bitch had just kept her mouth shut like a good girl. That's fucked on so many levels I think reddit's men's rights dumbshits popped the biggest boners they've ever had in their lives and don't know why.

FUCK.

Ok that felt good. Some good did come out of Other M!

[url]http://www.screwattack.com/news/seed-doubt-or-metroid-other-m-sexist[/url]
Ok, this article that was linked on the same page as the video is making me legitimately angry. People didn't find Other M sexist because of one reviewer you jackass, they found it sexist because [i]that's what it was[/i]. You never heard people use that word in context of game reviews before because the field was and is primarily a bunch of nerdy dudes whose only concept of repression and discrimination is likely being shoved into lockers and/or called fat by the big mean jocks. Their understanding of social issues doesn't extend beyond their immense gravitational field. It's not like you had to look hard to find the issues with Other M, it doesn't try to hide them, and just like you it probably doesn't even know why there's a problem because it's rooted in the mind of a man who has never had to give everything they had just to get on equal footing with other men.

And that reviewer didn't base her opinion solely on Samus taking orders from a guy, there was plenty more to it. Don't go around discrediting well thought out reviews by suggesting that this one review that your dumb white nerd man brain couldn't understand because you can't get over yourself for five minutes and look around literally raped your fellows into believing there's a significant issue with the game that clearly would not exist if that bitch had just kept her mouth shut like a good girl. That's fucked on so many levels I think reddit's men's rights dumbshits popped the biggest boners they've ever had in their lives and don't know why.

FUCK.

Ok that felt good. Some good did come out of Other M! :smile_orig:

tomatobob

2012-05-08 03:59:58 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Wait that's actually a different Game Overthinker video? Holy shit this guy is so far up his own ass it's insane.

For the love of fuck white nerd males- stop trying to defend a thing you like against sex or race based criticisms you clearly have no ability to grasp any fundamental aspect of the criticism. Literally none of it is about a thing just not making sense or lol Japan is sexist you self important shitstains. God dammit, I'm one of you and even I don't know how you can be so fucking dense.

TJF588

2012-05-08 01:13:08 pm

once GameFAQs, now Twitch

Did this just sow the thunder? But to go to the least-responded thing, I meant "crapped up" as in "worn, or damaged". IIRC, Nightmare wasn't looking too hot in Fusion to begin with, and then it started...draining?

tomatobob

2012-05-08 05:01:45 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh, no that kind of texture work is way beyond anything Other M could manage.

UchihaSasuke

2012-05-09 02:51:44 pm

my umbrella goes directly to Bankai

it doesn't really matter since he gets destroyed and we could assume the Fusion one was a new one.

Turtle

2012-05-09 04:33:07 pm

I like turtles.

The one in Fusion was an X mimicking Nightmare after eating the real one, which was taken to BSL along with Ridley's not-quite-dead, Metroid-drained husk.

tomatobob

2012-05-09 05:53:47 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Kinda takes away from the Fusion version, though, with the way it was built up as some new scary thing and when you get to it now it's like oh been there done that.

snailsforbreakfast

2012-05-14 11:59:26 pm

They taste best with salt

I just like to pretend that Other M never happened. That way, I don't have to remember the ridley scene anyway!