Impressions, NO SPOILERS

2004-02-04 03:06:43 pm

I'm sorry that they revealed as much information as they did about the game through magazine reviews and pictures, it would have been much more fun to see everything without any expectations. Hype clearly killed the game in some people's eyes.

The reimagining is marginal but there are quite a few nice exceptions. One Metroid Prime song is reused, which is slightly annoying. I really like the other music. Kraid. :)

First, the bad news, the game DISINTEGRATES at the end. I have to be extremely vague here, so I'll just say that there are multiple reasons why it is terrible. It's a good thing the original game is so good. The first portion of the 'new content' is actually excellent.

As far as sequence breaking its going to be hard. Important items are NOT always protected by bosses, (you already know this, so its not a spoiler) but there's more 'brick wall' type obstacles than there are 'impossible jump' type obstacles.

On the positive side, it's clear that there's a lot of weird and funky puzzles in this game. I solved a few puzzles (some mandatory, some not) that are imaginative and subtle. Just looking at some of the strangely important looking aspects of the environment is encouraging.

I encountered very quickly something that I considered to be a problem with Metroid Fusion, which is the necessity to find some obscure or atypical method of moving forward. It's nice (and unsettling) to end up somewhere completely unexpected, but there's a troubling impression you sometimes get of crawling through a puzzle rather than crawling through ruins.

The theme of Zero Mission is more consistent with Metroid Prime than any other metroid, but the game itself borrows elements from four games, M1, SM, MF, and MP. It's most heavily influenced by SM, and is superior to every metroid except SM.

There's a very specific reason why this series is going down the toilet, in spite of fantastic efforts like this, and it's the exact same reason why a show like 'Batman Beyond' faded quickly. Uninteresting villians and too much focus on the main character. IMO, part of what players want out of Metroid is to actually be/roleplay Samus. They're not as interested in her story as they are in her enemies and her actions. With the Metroids and Mother Brain no longer on center stage (that is not a specific statement about this game, only the series as a whole) Metroid is less compelling.

There's a hundred other things I'd like to say but of course I can't.

Thread title:

I'm sorry that they revealed as much information as they did about the game through magazine reviews and pictures, it would have been much more fun to see everything without any expectations.  Hype clearly killed the game in some people's eyes.

The reimagining is marginal but there are quite a few nice exceptions.  One Metroid Prime song is reused, which is slightly annoying.  I really like the other music.  Kraid.  :)

First, the bad news, the game DISINTEGRATES at the end.  I have to be extremely vague here, so I'll just say that there are multiple reasons why it is terrible.  It's a good thing the original game is so good.  The first portion of the 'new content' is actually excellent.

As far as sequence breaking its going to be hard.  Important items are NOT always protected by bosses, (you already know this, so its not a spoiler) but there's more 'brick wall' type obstacles than there are 'impossible jump' type obstacles.

On the positive side, it's clear that there's a lot of weird and funky puzzles in this game.  I solved a few puzzles (some mandatory, some not) that are imaginative and subtle.  Just looking at some of the strangely important looking aspects of the environment is encouraging.

I encountered very quickly something that I considered to be a problem with Metroid Fusion, which is the necessity to find some obscure or atypical method of moving forward.  It's nice (and unsettling) to end up somewhere completely unexpected, but there's a troubling impression you sometimes get of crawling through a puzzle rather than crawling through ruins.

The theme of Zero Mission is more consistent with Metroid Prime than any other metroid, but the game itself borrows elements from four games, M1, SM, MF, and MP.  It's most heavily influenced by SM, and is superior to every metroid except SM.

There's a very specific reason why this series is going down the toilet, in spite of fantastic efforts like this, and it's the exact same reason why a show like 'Batman Beyond' faded quickly.  Uninteresting villians and too much focus on the main character.  IMO, part of what players want out of Metroid is to actually be/roleplay Samus.  They're not as interested in her story as they are in her enemies and her actions.  With the Metroids and Mother Brain no longer on center stage (that is not a specific statement about this game, only the series as a whole) Metroid is less compelling.

There's a hundred other things I'd like to say but of course I can't.

Toozin

2004-02-05 12:21:07 am

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I disagree completely with what you said about the game falling apart, the series going down the toilet, and it not being sequence breakable.

Fantastic game, satisfied me in every way.

Tetris Ling

2004-02-05 01:20:08 am

I also disagree with the those statements. Ironicaly enough, sequence breaking has begun with a post by the very person who declared it unfeasable...

Weasel

2004-02-05 01:26:52 am

Hahahaha, sequence breaking!

I've gotten 3 missile tanks out of order already. I'd say it's definitely possible.

Pekod

2004-02-05 09:41:51 am

Come on man, that last boss wasn't even good enough for a Megaman game.

My original sentiment that sequence breaking would be difficult remains true imo. It's obvious that diagonal bomb jumping is an intentional inclusion. The main speed related problem with MZM is moving back and forth between sectors getting items needed to progress, and that problem has already been resolved. I'm fairly sure you can collect every item in Kraid all in one trip, without ever visiting Norfair.

As far as the series goes, the problem, as I said, is the villians. Space Pirates make great minions, they are not suitable as actual villians.

Actual villians are cool and scary. Actual villians know when to make a strategic retreat. Actual villians have a fallback plan. Space Pirates, on the other hand, just go 'pop' when you screw attack through them. Space Pirates humbly accept their fate when you blow up their planet, and then they go look for a new one... THEY COULD BE DOING SOMETHING MEAN-SPIRITED AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

Unfortunately there's going to be more of the same in MP2, mark my words. Hopefully after that's over with they'll downplay the Pirates and bring back Mother Brain or do something scary with the X. They combined Samus with the Metroids, (we all predicted this right?) now they need to combine something evil with them.

Come on man, that last boss wasn't even good enough for a Megaman game.

My original sentiment that sequence breaking would be difficult remains true imo.  It's obvious that diagonal bomb jumping is an intentional inclusion.  The main speed related problem with MZM is moving back and forth between sectors getting items needed to progress, and that problem has already been resolved.  I'm fairly sure you can collect every item in Kraid all in one trip, without ever visiting Norfair.

As far as the series goes, the problem, as I said, is the villians.  Space Pirates make great minions, they are not suitable as actual villians.

Actual villians are cool and scary.  Actual villians know when to make a strategic retreat.  Actual villians have a fallback plan.  Space Pirates, on the other hand, just go 'pop' when you screw attack through them.  Space Pirates humbly accept their fate when you blow up their planet, and then they go look for a new one...  THEY COULD BE DOING SOMETHING MEAN-SPIRITED AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

Unfortunately there's going to be more of the same in MP2, mark my words.  Hopefully after that's over with they'll downplay the Pirates and bring back Mother Brain or do something scary with the X.  They combined Samus with the Metroids, (we all predicted this right?) now they need to combine something evil with them.

Toozin

2004-02-05 12:53:58 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

The Metroid series has NEVER focused on developing villians. The focus has always been on Samus and her exploration of a completely unknown world. It's not like the original Metroid went deep into Ridley's motivations, or Super showed Draygon's tourtured soul. They've always just been there to be big and try to kill Samus, that's all.

Red Scarlet

2004-02-05 01:50:50 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I've never played Prime, but the Metroid series isn't really at the top of lists of having hard bosses in gaming circles.

Toozin

2004-02-05 04:11:59 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from Red Scarlet Bulleta:

I've never played Prime, but the Metroid series isn't really at the top of lists of having hard bosses in gaming circles.

That's certianly true of Prime.

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-02-05 08:01:57 pm

The Omega Pirate is constantly referred to as one of the hardest boss fights EVER. And Meta Ridley's not exactly a walk in the park either.

Weasel

2004-02-05 08:07:59 pm

Might I add that the final boss in Zero Mission is actually really hard in Hard Mode :P The guy can rip you a new one if you're not careful.

The Last Metroid

2004-02-05 09:14:18 pm

Omega Pirate's like a 100 second fight. I never found him hard.

Syl

2004-02-05 11:19:24 pm

Quote from The Last Metroid:

Omega Pirate's like a 100 second fight. I never found him hard.

have you ever played him on hard mode?

100 seconds? HAH.

Tzyr

2004-02-05 11:50:37 pm

http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_hard_1_round.mp4

;p

that is even less then 100 seconds...

Syl

2004-02-06 12:37:39 am

I was going to count the amount of glitches and other programming errors, etc. that you had to use to be able to kill him like that, but I lost count.
not to mention, that was a little over 100 seconds.

I'm not even going to consider that beating him, but I will consider that a demo of everything that the game was NOT supposed to do.

Tzyr

2004-02-06 12:56:57 am

uh...what?

First off, you do realize that the game does not count time during cut scenes? The fight lasted 1:30.59, or 90.59 seconds which is under 100 seconds.

Second, there is nothing wrong with what I did. You know in PAL version, pb knock off the armour of OP right? And even in the NA version pb knock OP around, they just do not knock off his armour. So, when it came when you have to hurt him, it is OBVIOUS the devs could have taken off the damage that pb have done for PAL, but they did not, which means that it is intended.

Pekod

2004-02-06 12:57:35 am

How do you access hard mode?

There's already a png of every picture from MZM endings out on the web.

http://www.vgmaps.com/Temporary/Metroid-ZeroMission-Endings.png

Weasel

2004-02-06 02:15:41 am

Hard Mode is accessed when you select the game you just beat (on normal, I think), then, instead of selecting "continue", hit "new" and you can choose to play hard mode.

Be warned. It's pretty tough :) But not too hard, I guess...

You want a real challenge? Try going though the game with a low percent. Ridley puts up a GOOD fight... I've collected 2 missile expansions, 2 energy tanks, and 1 super missile. I've also managed to COMPLETELY SKIP the high jump boots.

Using bomb ladders, you simply don't need them :)

Syl

2004-02-06 08:40:36 am

Quote from Tzyr:

uh...what?

First off, you do realize that the game does not count time during cut scenes? The fight lasted 1:30.59, or 90.59 seconds which is under 100 seconds.

Second, there is nothing wrong with what I did. You know in PAL version, pb knock off the armour of OP right? And even in the NA version pb knock OP around, they just do not knock off his armour. So, when it came when you have to hurt him, it is OBVIOUS the devs could have taken off the damage that pb have done for PAL, but they did not, which means that it is intended.

I was referring to, in order
"sleeping omega pirate" <- not intended
"rapid fire missiles" <- not intended
"Jump across the entire room using lock on" <- not intended
"boost ball doing obscene damage" <- not intended
All of those are just side effects of the game engine, bugs. I'm not saying that theyre wrong, but if your going to try and tell me that omega pirate isn't hard, using every unintentional game breaking glitch in the game isn't the way to do it.

now, I don't know about the pal version, i haven't played, nor do I ever think I will, if they made him easier, then that isn't a way to justify the amount of glitches that your using in the original US version.

I personally think glitches like that are no better than using gameshark.
I know its basicly what the entire site is done around, but its not the way to show off how you think omega pirate is easy.

[quote="Tzyr"]uh...what?

First off, you do realize that the game does not count time during cut scenes?  The fight lasted 1:30.59, or 90.59 seconds which is under 100 seconds.

Second, there is nothing wrong with what I did. You know in PAL version, pb knock off the armour of OP right? And even in the NA version pb knock OP around, they just do not knock off his armour. So, when it came when you have to hurt him, it is OBVIOUS the devs could have taken off the damage that pb have done for PAL, but they did not, which means that it is intended.[/quote]
I was referring to, in order
"sleeping omega pirate" <- not intended
"rapid fire missiles" <- not intended
"Jump across the entire room using lock on" <- not intended
"boost ball doing obscene damage" <- not intended
All of those are just side effects of the game engine, bugs. I'm not saying that theyre wrong, but if your going to try and tell me that omega pirate isn't hard, using every unintentional game breaking glitch in the game isn't the way to do it.

now, I don't know about the pal version, i haven't played, nor do I ever think I will, if they made him easier, then that isn't a way to justify the amount of glitches that your using in the original US version.

I personally think glitches like that are no better than using gameshark.  
I know its basicly what the entire site is done around, but its not the way to show off how you think omega pirate is easy.

Toozin

2004-02-06 01:07:36 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

Quote from Weasel:

You want a real challenge? Try going though the game with a low percent. Ridley puts up a GOOD fight... I've collected 2 missile expansions, 2 energy tanks, and 1 super missile. I've also managed to COMPLETELY SKIP the high jump boots.

Using bomb ladders, you simply don't need them :)

LLCoolDave beat the game with only 9%. I don't recall the required items offhand, but you can do without those Super Missiles and E-tanks. Only one missile expansion is neccesary to boot.

Weasel

2004-02-06 04:08:03 pm

Really? Only 1 missile expansion?

I found two required ones.... But ok...

Tzyr

2004-02-06 05:33:09 pm

Quote from Syl_Aran:

I was referring to, in order
"sleeping omega pirate" <- not intended
"rapid fire missiles" <- not intended
"Jump across the entire room using lock on" <- not intended
"boost ball doing obscene damage" <- not intended
All of those are just side effects of the game engine, bugs. I'm not saying that theyre wrong, but if your going to try and tell me that omega pirate isn't hard, using every unintentional game breaking glitch in the game isn't the way to do it.

now, I don't know about the pal version, i haven't played, nor do I ever think I will, if they made him easier, then that isn't a way to justify the amount of glitches that your using in the original US version.

I personally think glitches like that are no better than using gameshark.
I know its basicly what the entire site is done around, but its not the way to show off how you think omega pirate is easy.

Just because you have not played it, does not mean it does not exist ;p

I also never said OP was easy, just you were in disbelief killing OP in less then 100 seconds. When you just start to play the game, OP is hard for you do not know what is happening..but once you know a strat to beat him, he becomes a lot easier. Especially since the way of beating him fast is also the best way of killing him.

Take Parasite queen. Parasite queen is a lot harder then OP is on hard for speed, because you have to kill her before the glass spins.

As for your other points. Who says rapid fire was not intended? Last time I checked, you did not work for Retro, and rapid fire has been in most metroid games. It is also another thing that would have been known before they released the PAL version, and it is in the PAL version.

Unlike bomb jumping, it would not have been hard to stop rapid fire if they wanted so I am sure they would have changed it if they disliked it.

Sleeping was considered a bug, they changed it in PAL.

The jump across the room had no effect on the battle, I just did it because it is habit to scan the elevator and I might as well be against the door. I could have just ran and jumped there, or even boost.

About your boost doing insane damage, obviously you know nothing about OP, or all that observant for each time I boosted I layed a PB at OP's feet. Boost was to get there quickly, but I already proved in another vid that you do not need to use boost to get over there for you have enough time.

[quote="Syl_Aran"]I was referring to, in order
"sleeping omega pirate" <- not intended
"rapid fire missiles" <- not intended
"Jump across the entire room using lock on" <- not intended
"boost ball doing obscene damage" <- not intended
All of those are just side effects of the game engine, bugs. I'm not saying that theyre wrong, but if your going to try and tell me that omega pirate isn't hard, using every unintentional game breaking glitch in the game isn't the way to do it.

now, I don't know about the pal version, i haven't played, nor do I ever think I will, if they made him easier, then that isn't a way to justify the amount of glitches that your using in the original US version.

I personally think glitches like that are no better than using gameshark.  
I know its basicly what the entire site is done around, but its not the way to show off how you think omega pirate is easy.[/quote]

Just because you have not played it, does not mean it does not exist ;p

I also  never said OP was easy, just you were in disbelief killing OP in less then 100 seconds.   When you just start to play the game, OP is hard for you do not know what is happening..but once you know a strat to beat him, he becomes a lot easier.  Especially since the way of beating him fast is also the best way of killing him.

Take Parasite queen.  Parasite queen is a lot harder then OP is on hard for speed, because you have to kill her before the glass spins.

As for your other points.  Who says rapid fire was not intended?  Last time I checked, you did not work for Retro, and rapid fire has been in most metroid games.  It is also another thing that would have been known before they released the PAL version, and it is in the PAL version.

Unlike bomb jumping, it would not have been hard to stop rapid fire if they wanted so I am sure they would have changed it if they disliked it.

Sleeping was considered a bug, they changed it in PAL.

The jump across the room had no effect on the battle, I just did it because it is habit to scan the elevator and I might as well be against the door.  I could have just ran and jumped there, or even boost.

About your boost doing insane damage, obviously you know nothing about OP, or all that observant for each time I boosted I layed a PB at OP's feet. Boost was to get there quickly, but I already proved in another [url=http://www.metroid2002.com/tzyr/OP_1_round.mp4/]vid[/url] that you do not need to use boost to get over there for you have enough time.

Red Scarlet

2004-02-06 11:45:36 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Syl, you said you played the original Street Fighter 2, and also did combos.

Combos were unintentional.

So go back and play the game, doing only single hits.

That's basically what you are telling them with OP.

Very silly stuff.

Chozo-Ghost

2004-02-08 03:47:14 pm

Quote from Toozin:

The Metroid series has NEVER focused on developing villians. The focus has always been on Samus and her exploration of a completely unknown world.

I agree here, I even thought while I played Prime that they made the Pirates much more intelligent then they were original supposed to be.

I mean all these laboratories, research-teams and stuff.
The fighting AI of the Space-Pirates was relativly high developed.

Although I think it was necessary for the change to 3D, they shouldnt go to far in the future (prime 2) with this.

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-02-10 08:02:21 pm

This game DEFINITELY has a much more Metroidy feel than Fusion. If you could disable the "go here next" system, I think it would be almost perfect.

Toozin

2004-02-10 08:13:31 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

There's only one required "go here next" statue. The rest are optional.