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MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-06 02:44:06 pm
2007-11-06 08:07:48 am
Speedrunner
This is one theory break Wassub dawgs WR under 50 minutes. I don,t any sure is all main page trick possible on console. BOX 1 & 2 looks really awesome. both TAS only tricks. And is double shot against eyedoor possible on console. Save bit time. Peoples said double core-X is possible. Why not double eye door shot?

Segment 1
-Eye door W/O beam shots took lot patience (Wassup eye shot 5 beams)
-Archanus W/O wheel attack, just like Kridly SS run. Double X-shots after boss
-You can get maindeck M-exapansion before SRX too, took at most 5 seconds, but it save time later game IMO

Segment 2
-Eye door W/O beam
-Atmosphere kill one charge shot only
-Save in TRO

Segment 3
-Complete TRO and save before boss
-Eye door W/O beam
-Max round boss & 2 round core-X
-Save game before SAX?

Segment 4
-Sax glitch
-Go towards Sector AQA
-Save before Serris

Segment 5
-Boss in 2 hits & core- X in 3 round
-Shine after boss
-Shine after water levels
-Third crazy shine
-Most comfortable save game in PYR (bit slower, but not sub programs).

Segment 6
-Shines like Wassup dawgs.
-BOX 1 really fast (possible on console?)
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/boss_tricks_box.php
-Shine after this
-If you are crazy enought you can skip save before sector 6, because Sector 6 don,t includes manipualte luck spots
-Save game before Core-X battle

Segment 7
-Core-X in 4 hits & mini core-X in 3 round
-Save game??
-NOC end part requires lot manipulate luck enemys located different places your every attempt
-Save game in sector 5? Probably not if you use save after Core-X.

Segment 8
-Simply segment, no lot luck spots here

Segment 9
-Escape

Segment 10
-Main deck time saver (NO wassup run):
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/speed_tricks_main_deck.php
-Shine stop time saver
-Go towards Sector 5 and go towards Main deck SA ship

Segment 11
-Get third energy tanks??
-Eye door 1 round
-Mecha spider in first round.
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/boss_tricks_yakuza_2.php
-And if you have missiles against his second form. Better than charge?
-core-X 3 round
-Shine spark? Save that really time?
**P.Jman said it is slower use spark after Yakuza.
-Pass SAX
-Go save in TRO

Segment 12 & 13
-Nettori (if you have missiles at least 40 you can kill boss faster than Wassup dawgs)
-Go towards of Sector 5. You can save game in TRO lobby, this make Sector 5 entrance shine sparks fasters made, because you can have max speed when you go inside sector 5.
-Nightmare max round & core-X in 3 round
-Go towards in under water area (save game or not??) THis not important save because under water area don,t includes lot luck manipulations spots
-Save game in Sector 6 before BOX II

Segment 14
-BOX 2 watch mainpage
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/boss_tricks_box_ii.php
-Escape 54-55 time remain
-SRX-save game before gold pirates

Segment 15
-Break M-blocks your diffusion missiles
-Gold pirates in one round
-Eye door W/O beam shots
-Ridley & Core-X in 3 round
-Go towards main deck

Segment 16
-Sax
-Escape at most 5-6 seconds possible improve wassup escape. I got 1.39 time remain Wassup 1.35. He miss shine spark

Clear time possible at least 49 even 48.

Long post, nice theory break current WR time. All current trick here. My own best time is 54 minutes. I don,t never learn cursed double core-X time saver. Some reason it is too hard, but i probably go practice that most important time saver.


Have anybody new ideas?? Question

EIDT:
I update my first post.
-We know. Double eye door shot is not possible. I am pretty sure too double eye-X shot never will happen on console
-I update P.Jman thing. Spark is bit slower than space jump after Yakuza.
Thread title: 
BioSpark
2007-11-06 11:36:35 am
I can't read this now, but I am working on my any% run instead of the 1% and I will post my ideas for where to save later.
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-06 11:53:01 am
2007-11-06 11:45:51 am
Speedrunner
I trying double eyedoor shot and double core-X shots almost 20-30 times, but some reason both trick never working for me. :(

Many peoples said Double core-X is very possible on console, but i do something wrong or my thumb are too slow. Is anybody test that how this working on PAL versio? Is there versio difference between PAL vs NTSC versio?

This is one very important speedtrick overall. It save alot time probably even one minutes if you use all double shots core-X speetrick. It is most important if you go try beat current WR time.

EDIT***************************:
Thanks Pj.man. I see simupost
Well nice know that eye door double shots thing doesn,t work. I go try again that double core-X trick. Hopefully it working.
P.JMan
P.JMan
Edit history:
P.JMan: 2007-11-06 11:49:10 am
2007-11-06 11:46:38 am
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
Everything in the Fusion section is humanly possible. That includes the BOX tricks (in fact, I used to do them all the time until I turned crap at the game)

You can not do a double door shot because both missiles have to hit at the same time in the same horizontal point. To do it you have to do a diagonal shot and spin jump at the same time, then shoot again on the 1st possible frame (which is only 8 frames later).
You can do a double shot on a core-x because you can just jump, start falling, shoot, and then shoot again about 1 second afterwards (since you fall faster than your missiles for until ~1 second after it's launched)

You should go left and do the underwater wall jumping after Serris, not right.

It's actually slower to do the spark after Yakuza

EDIT: There is absolutly no difference between the PAL and NTSC versions of this game exept that PAL has it's various language settings
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-06 12:17:48 pm
2007-11-06 11:59:14 am
Speedrunner
Jes double core-X shots finally working. :D I already doing that totally wrong. It was reason why it already never working. laugh new

Thanks P.jman and main page video.
nate
2007-11-06 12:01:54 pm
Quote from P.JMan:
There is absolutly no difference between the PAL and NTSC versions of this game exept that PAL has it's various language settings

there is no "ntsc" or "pal" with handheld games.

also:

http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/version_differences_alternate_secret_message_method.php
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/version_differences_intro_skip.php
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/version_differences_stereo_save.php
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-06 02:19:33 pm
2007-11-06 01:37:39 pm
Speedrunner
I need help. Mainpage don,t includes that.

Atmosphere after charge beam. Is this possible kill that only one charge shot on console. TAS kill that one charge hit only

TAS-video (part 2)
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5790958922000242520&q=metroid+fusion+%2Btas&total=14&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=4

I trying that many times but i need always two hits. I jump towards of atmosphere and i jump again when Samus is invisble and i shot charge, but what i du wrong? Atmosphere don,t want dead. This save lot time. I use three hit method my 54 speedrun. This save almost 8- 10 seconds if one hit kill is possible. 2 hit kill is possible when i watch TAS video, but why one hit kill not???

EDIT*/************************
One round kill working, but it is so random IMO. I don,t sure how i did that. I manage that twice. Took always lot tries. If somebody want check how this working it can help lot speedrunners. I find fast 2 round kill too. This took almost 70 energy points (not good idea low-% run) This is bit slower, but not too much. It is at least easier IMO.
P.JMan
2007-11-06 02:18:14 pm
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
You need flare damage as well as hitting it with both halves of your beam

Also. It's 'invincible', not 'invisible'
BioSpark
BioSpark
Edit history:
BioSpark: 2008-02-29 11:11:47 pm
2007-11-06 07:34:26 pm
Okay, here's my idea.

Segment 1
-get 2 missile tanks before arachnus
-double eye door hit is too hard to do
-one round arachnus kill
-get missile tank in tunnel before elevator
-save in sector 1

Segment 2
-hope for perfect eyedoor
-double shot not used on eye core x thing
-save in sector 2

Segment 3
-not much here
-save before zazabi

Segment 4
-get perfect eye door
-get 3-4 wasted jumped
-get 2 round core-x
-save before sa-x

Segment 5
-pass sa-x
-get to sector 4
-save before serris

Segment 6
-get perfect eye door, serris fight, and core-x
-underwater walljump after serris
-don't save right after serris
-use easier method for shinespark
-save in sector 3

Segment 7
-get perfect shinesparks up to box
-kill box in 2 rounds (while I can do it in one round, it's way too hard and I don't want to use the save before it)
-don't save at end of sector 3
-go through sector 6
-use a bit easier sa-x method
-save before mega-x

Segment 8
-get 4 round fight
-get through sector 6
-go through part of sector 5
-save in room before security room

Segment 9
-do the tricky shinespark
-save at end of sector 5

Segment 10
-go through meltdown sequence
-save at end of sector 3

Segment 11
-tricky segment
-go through habitation deck
-go through sector 5 again
-save in ship

Segment 12
-yakuza fight
-don't use shinespark
-save before nettori

Segment 13
-kill nettori using the "sweet spot"
-save at beginning of sector 5

Segment 14
-might add another save to this one, depending on how hard it is
-use the crazy spaceboosting trick (I'm pretty good at it)
-get good nightmare fight
-if I save, save right after fight
-go through sector 4
-save at end of sector 4

Segment 15
-get a good box 2 fight (probably not as fast as the one on the site)
-go through restricted lab
-save before ridley? (this part of the game doesn't have saves in my path, so I'll have to see)

Segment 16
-get perfect ridley fight
-get back to main deck
-save before sa-x fight

Segment 17
-kill sa-x 1st form in 5 shots and the 2nd form in 2 shots
-maybe try double shots, might not matter by the end
-quick omega kill

Hopefully this will get :49 or :48 (or :47). You can give me suggestions, though the route is pretty much set in stone.
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-07 07:06:54 am
2007-11-07 07:02:42 am
Speedrunner
Yeah i read that your route Bio spark. Questions time:

-How much SAX glitch save time in TRO? Is this better if  i use save before SAX glitch or i skip that glitch? I manage that yesterday and it took me almost 30-50 tries. I definitely need that save point before that. How much seconds save point took overall?

-Is this under water wall jump faster than normal route in AQA?
I know TAS use that, but save that really any time. I can,t do under water wall jump as fast as TAS. It cost me bit. This not look any faster/slower use shine spark route.

-What you think save skip before first NOC visit. Includes Sector 6 any very hard/random spots where you need save? My opinion NOT. Perfect first shine spark of course, but it save at most 2 seconds. My opinion is faster skip save.

-Yakuza 2nd form. Charge or missiles better?

-Your Nettori method: Is this same than Wassup dawgs? or different? You talking about sweet spot, what is this? English-finnish translation don,t know much about this.

-My opinion it is better choise use save before BOX 2 than Sector 4 save. But yeah Sector 4 can bit faster, but it is frustrating IMO.

-What is that your SAX method. SAX 1st form 5 shot only? I need always 15 shots.

Thanks answers. Wink




P.JMan
P.JMan
Edit history:
P.JMan: 2007-11-07 11:19:38 am
2007-11-07 11:15:04 am
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
Quote from MASTER-88:
-How much SAX glitch save time in TRO? Is this better if  i use save before SAX glitch or i skip that glitch? I manage that yesterday and it took me almost 30-50 tries. I definitely need that save point before that. How much seconds save point took overall?

1st of all, it's not a glitch. It's just skillful. A little tip to doing this is to: make sure you shoot both of those shot blocks and morph as soon as you possibly can, then hold left and A. You should bounce over him by doing that. Then it's just a matter of timing.
Code:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Zqk6I4Y7DU
Here's a link to a youtube video of what I just said (it's much faster to link youtube videos that to embed them)

Quote from MASTER-88:
-Is this under water wall jump faster than normal route in AQA?
I know TAS use that, but save that really any time. I can,t do under water wall jump as fast as TAS. It cost me bit. This not look any faster/slower use shine spark route.

It's faster

Quote from MASTER-88:
-Yakuza 2nd form. Charge or missiles better?

It's better to use all of your missiles (exept 1 for the core-x) on it's 1st form. If you just happen to have any left over, then you should use those on it's 2nd form

Quote from MASTER-88:
-Your Nettori method: Is this same than Wassup dawgs? or different? You talking about sweet spot, what is this? English-finnish translation don,t know much about this.

The sweet spot is a spot just infront of Nettori, where you can stand throughout the whole battle dealing flare damage and not get hit by the spores. The spot itself is in the picture below


Quote from MASTER-88:
-What is that your SAX method. SAX 1st form 5 shot only? I need always 15 shots.

Shoot it digonally from a certain distance
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-07 01:35:52 pm
2007-11-07 12:14:58 pm
Speedrunner
Thanks P.Jman once again.

That TRO SAX thing was news to me, main page don,t includes that. I using that Wassup dawgs method. youtube method is probably fastest, but it looks even harder than Wassup dawgs method.

How many seconds that under water wall jump is faster? I think if it is less than 5 seconds, there is no much reason use that, if you don,t really go try perfect run. TAS condition make under water wall jump bit faster IMO.

Nettori thing looks same as Wassup dawgs use. I am trying that couple times, some reason i always lose my healths, my spot is probably bit wrong. Wassup explode PB first before he come towards of sweet spot. It is probably faster use missile rapid fire if you have at least 40 missiles. There is one cheap spot what Kridly use his SS run.

SAX 5 charge shot method sounds like really interesting, i think TAS runs don,t includes that. It is one big time saver. TAS run use ice missile and charge combinations, but this not any faster IMO and it doesn,t never work for me.

************************************************

Next questions.

I have right now much trouble make double core-X shot with super missiles. I trying that at least 20 times, but it never working. Is this idea different shot Super missile double core-X shots? Normal Missile double core-X shots working very well yesterday. Super missile rapid fire is much slower.

EIDT:
i finally manage double shot against core-X with SM. Took me over one hours. I think i never can apply that with speedrun. It is pure luck. SM rapid fire is very slow. Can peoples really apply that against everysingle fights? :-s

There must be easier way
Dragonfangs
2007-11-07 02:17:53 pm
The 5-shot SA-X strategy IS used in the TAS (well, not the one here). I only use 4 shots though, but you'll have to be very lucky to get that unassisted as it requires very precise positioning.

Also, for double core-x shots with super missiles or stronger, you should jump after firing the first missile. At the start of her jump, Samus is faster than a missile that's still accelerating.

And though I can't really remember how much faster it is, I too believe the underwater walljumping after Serris isn't worth the effort unassisted.
MASTER-88
2007-11-07 02:44:06 pm
Speedrunner
Quote from Dragonfangs:
Also, for double core-x shots with super missiles or stronger, you should jump after firing the first missile. At the start of her jump, Samus is faster than a missile that's still accelerating.


Well this is good point, i don,t remember jump i before i shot. I just kill first SM core-X battle in 4 round, took me almost 2 hours. This is 2 round faster than normal way. 3 round is best possible, but this mean you can,t get miss any double shots. Too hard for me.

I find eaiser way shoot first double shot. When boss died you can shot first double shot when core-x appear and is invulnerable couple seconds. This is still bit luck.

I need lot practice yet. Hopefully this your advice make my double shots bit easier. This is hellishly hard right now.
P.JMan
2007-11-07 02:57:00 pm
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
Quote from MASTER-88:
Wassup explode PB first before he come towards of sweet spot.

Yeah, that's always a good idea.

Quote from MASTER-88:
SAX 5 charge shot method sounds like really interesting, i think TAS runs don,t includes that.

Dragonfangs' published movie at TASvideos does it

Quote from MASTER-88:
I have right now much trouble make double core-X shot with super missiles. I trying that at least 20 times, but it never working. Is this idea different shot Super missile double core-X shots? Normal Missile double core-X shots working very well yesterday. Super missile rapid fire is much slower.

Yeah, the regular missile only has 8 frames of cooldown while the super missile has 13 (ice missile has 14 and diffusion has 15)

This is the way I do double shots anyway
Code:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=teMl8qm0UgE
Tonski
2007-11-07 03:00:42 pm
What the...

Are you going for sub 50 min Master?
BioSpark
BioSpark
Edit history:
BioSpark: 2010-06-20 07:30:00 pm
2007-11-07 10:11:08 pm
At least I am.
Quote from MASTER-88:
-What you think save skip before first NOC visit. Includes Sector 6 any very hard/random spots where you need save? My opinion NOT. Perfect first shine spark of course, but it save at most 2 seconds. My opinion is faster skip save.

No, the sa-x encounter is a bit tough, I have to jump over it. Plus, I can just make an absolutely perfect segment.

Quote from MASTER-88:
-My opinion it is better choise use save before BOX 2 than Sector 4 save. But yeah Sector 4 can bit faster, but it is frustrating IMO.

The segment would be very long and very hard, so I don't think it's worth it.

Quote from MASTER-88:
-What is that your SAX method. SAX 1st form 5 shot only? I need always 15 shots.

See my strategy here:


Quote from P.JMan:
It's better to use all of your missiles (exept 1 for the core-x) on it's 1st form. If you just happen to have any left over, then you should use those on it's 2nd form

Actually, no, at least in my opinion. I'm pretty sure charge beam does more damage, plus is easier to hit than missiles. I certainly can't do double shots, and even if missiles are faster, I'd like a few missiles left over (at least 2, sometimes I'm not able to pick up green x's).
nate
2007-11-07 10:30:51 pm
biospark is an insane fusion player. i thought that video was tas at first.
BioSpark
2007-11-07 10:35:09 pm
I surprise myself sometimes.

So go go go :48 I guess; I'll start right after my practice run.
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-08 09:03:34 am
2007-11-08 07:28:57 am
Speedrunner
I suck quotes text. But i answers/give comments W/O quotes.

BIO SPARK WROTE:
No, the sa-x encounter is a bit tough, I have to jump over it. Plus, I can just make an absolutely perfect segment.

ANSWER:
Your method is definitely different than my. I use same as Kridly his SS run. This is pretty easy.

+Thanks Bio spark your last boss video it was totally insane.
+I agree that Yakuza Charge method too. My opinion charge working better than missiles. Missiles working better probably 100% game or TAS.

TONSKI WROTE:
What the...
Are you going for sub 50 min Master?

ANSWER:
I think i don,t can beat game sub 50 minutes. My topic idea is theory how you can beat game sub 50 minutes? I am sure 48 is very possible on console if you apply all new trick. I still planned try one more speedrun yet in near future. Hopefully 52 minutes or under :)

NATE WROTE:
biospark is an insane fusion player. i thought that video was tas at first.

ANSWER:
I agree this. He is only one who really can get 48 minutes time. Easily at least 49 minutes.


*********************************************

Questions:
Why that Yakuza time saver doesn,t work for me?
http://www.metroid2002.com/fusion/boss_tricks_yakuza_2.php

I trying that multiple times. Some reason i do that wrong. I just shake left and right d-pad as fast as i can, but boss don,t want drop me down. Is there any more else important thing what i must be remember?

EDIT**:
This working now, but this is very uncessary trick. This not increase Yakuza mouth open manipulation rate. This not working as fast as Nate. l already push too slow my D-pad it was reason why it took much tries. Your must be shake left-right your D-pad incredible fast.

Orginal method is much better/faster IMO.
Mouth open manipulation is random as well.

P.JMan
2007-11-08 12:07:10 pm
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
Quote from BioSpark:
Actually, no, at least in my opinion. I'm pretty sure charge beam does more damage, plus is easier to hit than missiles. I certainly can't do double shots, and even if missiles are faster, I'd like a few missiles left over (at least 2, sometimes I'm not able to pick up green x's).

heh, I just assumed you would do double shots. But yeah Wide Beam does 45 damage and 54 damage with flare where as Ice Missiles only do 40

Quote from MASTER-88:
This working now, but this is very uncessary trick. This not increase Yakuza mouth open manipulation rate. This not working as fast as Nate. l already push too slow my D-pad it was reason why it took much tries. Your must be shake left-right your D-pad incredible fast.

Orginal method is much better/faster IMO.
Mouth open manipulation is random as well.

Yakuza usually either goes round the room 4 times or once. If it happens to go round the room 4 times, then you can hurry it up by repeatably jumping into it and breaking out again
MASTER-88
2007-11-08 12:40:58 pm
Speedrunner
Ok.

Know you how many seconds save point took game time? Are you test that your TAS?

how much seconds?
-Save your game
-Restart
-And continued your game

I know when you save game and restart it took longer than save point itself.

-ZM save point took 6 seconds, but i am pretty sure Fusion save took longer. I think 8-10 seconds.
I just started try speedrun.
I got 0.00 middle save in main deck
and 0.03.very high (56-57 seconds) in SRX.

My previous run i skip that middle save but segment itself was slower but time was still 0.03 very high as well in SRX.

This time i use that middle save. I avoid all eye beams and made 2 round core-X battle, but my game is at most 3 seconds faster than last time.

I think save point took 10 seconds, but can somebody ensure this.
P.JMan
P.JMan
Edit history:
P.JMan: 2007-11-08 01:47:01 pm
2007-11-08 01:02:46 pm
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
It takes exactly 109 frames (1 and 49/60 seconds) from when you touch the save pad to your game data being saved if you press A on the 1st frame possible

It takes exactly 447 frames (7.45 seconds) from when you reset to when you can move when you press A on the 1st possible frames

EDIT: Also, for Zero Mission: it takes exactly 82 frames (1 and 11/30 seconds) from when you touch the save pad to your game data being saved if you press A on the 1st frame possible

It takes exactly 629 frames (10 and 39/60 seconds) from when you reset to when you can move when you press A on the 1st possible frames
MASTER-88
MASTER-88
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2007-11-09 07:16:57 am
2007-11-09 07:14:44 am
Speedrunner
Save 4: 0.09 Before eye tube boss

-I got very high 0.09 minutes & (almost 56-58 seconds over) this is better than my 54 and 1% 57 run sub time.

I just timed SA.X glitches, P.Jman dont called that gltich, but main page called:
-P.Jman style in youtube: is fastest method (6.8 seconds). Morph ball jump is incredible difficult, i test that yesterday couple times.
-Main page style is one seconds slower 7.5 (no damage) & 7.8 with damage.
That damage style what wassup use is not that good because it drain all your energy expect last energypoint. This mean your must be get couple energy parasite, before sector 4.This made your game slower collect refills.

-Normal way without SA.X pass glitch is 14 seconds. It is half slower than 3 previous way. If you use savepoint. PJ.man said save point took 7.45 seconds. This mean it is as fast as skip save and use normal way. And if you use save point and use TRO SA.X pass glitch.

Some reason i never ever can manage next thing in one sitting if it is possible it save 7 seconds time.
-Eye door manipulation
-Pefect boss
-2x Double core-X shots
-SAX pass glitch
-And everything else thing.

I pass that SAX once my life, took me really much deaths. It is totally luck IMO or you need incredible fast reflex.
P.JMan
2007-11-09 10:43:13 am
I like Big Butts and I can not lie
Quote from MASTER-88:
-P.Jman style in youtube: is fastest method (6.8 seconds). Morph ball jump is incredible difficult, i test that yesterday couple times.

That's the only way I can actually even do it, it's not all that hard. Just make sure you shoot both the shot blocks and morph as soon as possible. The morphball bounces don't even have any specific timing, I just hold jump