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arkarian: 2014-07-17 08:08:57 pm
red chamber dream
i said that because most metroid games are indeed more or less linear. go ahead and count them. there's only like 2 or 3 wide-open metroid games that really let you explore (m/zm, ros, super).
oh on that i agree with you, and would even go so far as to say that RoS is pretty linear too.  it was the latter half of your post: "you can't have a decent plot, story, or any sort of real progression without linearity. just like every other medium." - that i feel is debatable.
Edit history:
arkarian: 2014-07-17 09:27:27 pm
red chamber dream
everything is debatable. that's just my opinion.
well i dont want to derail the thread, but i do want to point out that video games are not like every other medium, because the user innately has so much influence on the experience.  progression and story can be determined by the user, as opposed to books and movies.  a few games that really embrace this, and excel at fostering the users capability to discover in a non-linear fashion both wonderful plot-lines and feelings of progression are the Quest for Glory games, and the SaGa games.  in the end the manners in which these stories are told are heavily decided upon by the user, and they are quite good, given the general weakness that "sandbox" games suffer from in this regard.  personally, some of the most epic stories of my "gaming career" were created in shadowbane: a sandbox mmo with practically no linearity whatsoever.  nothing compares to all the nuances of story found in the running of a few cities that were built up over years by hundreds of real people, then losing them in a massive war.  except maybe getting lost on zebes in super metroid, and then discovering a secret passageway with a chozo statue at the end of it.  in my opinion super metroids non-linearity, and the ability to get lost and truly find something new, is what really contributes the most to the rich feeling of progression that the game has, and also adds the most depth to its atmosphere.

there are some completely non-linear tabletop games as well, like dungeon world, from which amazing stories are born.
shadowrun on the genesis is another good one too.

if youre in to rpg's at all i recommend checking out the games i mentioned.

sorry, post ended up longer than i intended.  ill make a new thread if you want me to.
red chamber dream
i don't enjoy stories i have to create myself - difference in perspective i suppose
you dont really create your own story in the Quest for Glory, SaGa, or Shadowrun games as much as you choose when and how to explore pre-written ones: triggering the progression of multiple plot-lines in your own way and at your own pace, somewhat similarly to gathering power-ups and beating bosses in SM and ZM in whatever order you want.  the decisions you make can also impact the endings in various ways.  its an extremely immersive method of telling a story than only games can facilitate.

ah well to each their own.
Anywhere, everywhere
Stories in games can be important to me, but it's certainly not an end all-be all type reason why I like a game. The Last of Us and Super Mario Galaxy 2 are two of my favorite games from this decade, and it's for completely different reasons.
What'd you say?
Quote from rekameohs:
Stories in games can be important to me, but it's certainly not an end all-be all type reason why I like a game.
oh i agree completely.  the most important thing in a game is gameplay / mechanics.  i was just commenting on arkarians statement regarding story and linearity.
while i find the plot of the metroid games intriguing, it is by no means why i like the games.  its the gameplay, world, and level designs that keep bringing me back to recognize them as some of the finest games ever made.
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
Metroid games don't need to be fully non-linear, but they're at their best when they make you feel like you're out ecploring and discovering on your own. Like, when I get the ice beam say, I'd rather go find that white door I remember seeing rather then a big blinking objective saying "ok now open this door." I have to go through that door either way, sure, but finding that out for yourself feels more free. I think Prime got it pretty good with the delayed hint system, giving you a nudge in the right direction to keep you from getting too lost but otherwise giving you a chance to find your own way.

Might as well be on topic while I'm here.

Prime
Super
ZM
Corruption
Echoes
RoS
Fusion
Metroid
Other M
Edit history:
Littlenino: 2014-07-27 07:01:09 pm
Littlenino: 2014-07-27 06:59:55 pm
Littlenino: 2014-07-27 06:59:10 pm
Might as well toss my rankings in here

Pinball Tier:
Pinball

God Tier:
Echoes
Prime

Great Tier:
Super

Good Tier:
Fusion
ZM

Worth-at-least-one-playthrough Tier:
Corruption

Surprisingly-good-for-what-it-is Tier:
RoS

Better-speedgame-than-casual-game Tier:
Hunters

Hasn't-aged-well-at-all Tier:
Metroid

Baby Tier:
Other M
Echoes
ZM
Prime
Fusion
Super
Corruption
M2
OM

I refuse to consider Other M for a spot on my list.
Quote from Opium:
OM

I refuse to consider Other M for a spot on my list.

Um...
Edit history:
Toozin: 2014-07-28 06:31:37 pm
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
OM = Original Metroid, I would assume.

Also, lol at baby tier.
red chamber dream
the main problem with other m is that they called it a metroid game
red chamber dream
if the characters weren't metroid characters its score would go up a lot in my mind
One shall stand, one shall ball.
They'd still be awful garbage characters no matter what they called the game.
red chamber dream
not denying that
Not impossible
just highly unlikely
If they made Samus a dude it might help with the overbearing sexism a bit.
Yeah but then where would they stop after that? Making Mario a girl? Zelda a girl? Master chief?


My lost:
ZM
Hunters
Pinball
Fusion
Super

Hunters and pinball had the really fun multiplayer, hard to compete with that.
What'd you say?
Quote from Poision Envy:
Zelda a girl?

!!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!!
Zelda already is a girl.
One shall stand, one shall ball.
!!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!!
That's the joke!

red chamber dream
!!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!! !!!SPOILER ALERT!!!
i fucked urmom