How good are you at feats of midair morph skill in hacks?

2008-06-23 03:18:46 am

jfyi, this poll is Cliffhanger Easy Ver adjustment related. It's trying to gauge how many people can do certain things so it isn't made too easy or left too hard.

Thread title:

Crys

2008-06-23 05:32:48 am

Green-Kirby, ROAR!

Em, I did not know you where on the cliffhanger project... what ever.

I can mid air-morph from wall jump and under water. But not in between spikes.

I do how ever suggest leaving midair morph in. Normal once and maybe wall jump once some times. But under water and with spikes all around... It will be to hard IMO.

Gaius_4

2008-06-23 10:55:06 am

I picked the wall jump... But I'm not perfect at it. Since, I think it was 'I Cheat at Golf' that explained to me how to do it after I said I had trouble getting up through the way you come in to get to the bomb torrizo.

I can do it maybe about 75% of the time. :P But it seems like I keep getting better.

I seem to recall one instance in one of the movies for Cliffhanger where a mach-ball was done into a hole in the wall (like that challenge I thought up aiwebs_008

) to go over crumble blocks.

That's a tad into the realm of this technique, but much more advanced.

P.JMan

2008-06-23 11:24:19 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Wall-jump midair morph is much easier than a normal one

Shekb

2008-06-23 12:01:08 pm

Far worse things than mid-air morph

Only thing I simply CANNOT do is horizontal bomb jump

Tyjet66

2008-06-23 12:19:10 pm

What'd you say?

I can walljump into a midair morph.

I suggest leaving it only normal mid-air morphs, maybe a few wall jumping; only because there are people that will try your hack that cant walljump into a mid-air morph (with our withouth spikes/water) and will be turned away quickly.

So if you impelment the harder morphs, don't make them required to beat the game, but maybe required for 100%

hope i helped :-)

Bolognab

2008-06-23 01:25:24 pm

Quote from tyjet66:

I can walljump into a midair morph.

I suggest leaving it only normal mid-air morphs, maybe a few wall jumping; only because there are people that will try your hack that cant walljump into a mid-air morph (with our withouth spikes/water) and will be turned away quickly.

So if you impelment the harder morphs, don't make them required to beat the game, but maybe required for 100%

hope i helped :-)

He's not even the creator of the hack, and if a person can't even mid air morph easily, then that person shouldn't be even ATTEMPTING cliffhanger (see vids). Unless of course dmantra decides to make a very easy version.

Xaggoth

2008-06-23 01:53:14 pm

Putting myself down for both, I can do the exit from bomb torizo fairly well (to use the existing example). I've never tried pb #66 though I'm confident I could with enough tries. Things I would be more worried about that I've never done before would be: wall-jumping into an ibj or wall-jumping into a dbj (can't even get a full length dbj).

juicemousezero

2008-06-23 01:55:50 pm

@ Bolognab

Quote from DMantra from the Cliffhanger promo thread:

Fear not, an easy version will be made aswel.

DonnyDonovan

2008-06-23 01:59:13 pm

Wall jumping into a mid-air morph isn't too big a deal. I recall there's an energy tank in Limit where you have to wall jump up a tall shaft and mid air morph into a passage at the very top. It's tricky but I can usually get it after a few tries.

I think in an "easy" version of the hack, where to draw the line is minimizing the consequence of failure, i.e., not too many spikes or other traps where if you miss you are screwed. I don't mind having to attempt something multiple times, but, if failure means insta-death, one can get frustrated, even with savestates.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-06-23 02:06:46 pm

YAY TEXT

Quote:

and if a person can't even mid air morph easily, then that person shouldn't be even ATTEMPTING cliffhanger (see vids).

I don't know about the easy version but the hard version is just as hard as it looks on the videos, even some early parts are quite challenging, but very well pulled off; hard is good when done right, which it certainly is. Assuming its difficulty curves like other games and hacks, I estimate that the end portions will require similar skill to my hack, but I dont know.

I've got to reccomend that the easy version requires normal mid air morph but no too many or too early, and that some short walljumping sessions are required, maybe a DBJ but not IBJ. And certainly no advanced tricks such as quick charge or mid air mockball and the like, but then again, there isnt really a limit on optional items. Thats just my thoughts to make it challenging within reason for the average skilled player.

Sneaky Paradox

2008-06-23 02:51:09 pm

Umm well, I'm very good at walljumping. So option 3

Bolognab

2008-06-23 03:07:04 pm

Quote from juicemousezero:

@ Bolognab

Quote from DMantra from the Cliffhanger promo thread:

Fear not, an easy version will be made aswel.

I'm aware of this- I just doubt Dmantra would lower his hack's difficulty so much to the point that walljump--->midair morph are unneeded.

Black Telomeres

2008-06-23 03:39:16 pm

Quote from Green-Kirby:

Em, I did not know you where on the cliffhanger project... what ever.

Well, I'm just playtesting the hard ver and offering suggestions on how to turn it to the easy ver without changing too much of the level design. Suggesting e-tankage and such.

Quote from Shekb:

Far worse things than mid-air morph

Only thing I simply CANNOT do is horizontal bomb jump

There won't be any of that in the easy ver, although in the hard ver theres a part where you have to walljump into a midair morph and then hbj to a ledge.

Quote from Bolognab:

I'm aware of this- I just doubt Dmantra would lower his hack's difficulty so much to the point that walljump--->midair morph are unneeded.

DMantra has said his proclivity is toward making an easy version "too easy" because otherwise he'd end up still making it hard =3 Hopefully it'll end up closer to "moderate" difficulty though.

Also, there are actually some pretty "tough" (I say that because it might be tough for some people) walljump midair morphs early in the hard ver that require you to wj-mam into a passage with only 2-3 or so blocks directly below the passage to walljump off of, but I assume those are getting changed a bit for the easy ver. Mostly I guess wall-jump midair morphs will be left as long as they're not insane.

[quote="Green-Kirby"]
Em, I did not know you where on the cliffhanger project...  what ever.
[/quote]

Well, I'm just playtesting the hard ver and offering suggestions on how to turn it to the easy ver without changing too much of the level design. Suggesting e-tankage and such.

[quote="Shekb"]
Far worse things than mid-air morph

Only thing I simply CANNOT do is horizontal bomb jump
[/quote]

There won't be any of that in the easy ver, although in the hard ver theres a part where you have to walljump into a midair morph and then hbj to a ledge.

[quote="Bolognab"]
I'm aware of this- I just doubt Dmantra would lower his hack's difficulty so much to the point that walljump--->midair morph are unneeded. 
[/quote]

DMantra has said his proclivity is toward making an easy version "too easy" because otherwise he'd end up still making it hard =3 Hopefully it'll end up closer to "moderate" difficulty though.

Also, there are actually some pretty "tough" (I say that because it might be tough for some people) walljump midair morphs early in the hard ver that require you to wj-mam into a passage with only 2-3 or so blocks directly below the passage to walljump off of, but I assume those are getting changed a bit for the easy ver. Mostly I guess wall-jump midair morphs will be left as long as they're not insane.

Bolognab

2008-06-23 04:12:53 pm

I wish he'd just ditch the entire easy version and give me the hard version Twisted Evil

...yeah yeah, I know those few um...not noobs, but people who can't handle the difficulty wouldn't be satisfied.

Eventually you guys will have to learn these tricks or no hacks will be able to be played by you! So just learn them now rather than later.

Black Telomeres

2008-06-23 04:45:03 pm

Um, not sure I'd say it's all about tricks. I'd say the better reason to play the easy ver is that in some cases in the hard ver it's going to take you quite a lot of time loadstating to get through just one of the cliffhanging rooms as well as some of the other spike-related stuff. As far as "those few", I'd say it's more like "those many" - if everyone had to play the hard ver, I'd say only about 10% would be able to finish it legit without just giving up in frustration because of rooms like that. This isn't just Limit difficulty or Redesign difficulty with a few tricks like speedball or hbjing thrown in. Although it starts off deceptively easy, there's stuff that's just as bad as anything I've seen in Impossible.

Sturmvogel Prime

2008-06-23 05:20:30 pm

Phazon Vasteel Autobot

I can walljump and midair morph, but without obstacles like water or spikes

butterflyboy1974

2008-06-23 05:25:16 pm

Kneel before the great & powerful chOZo

I have to say that my favorite hacks were ones that didn't have alot of evil rooms. I kinda stop having fun when i have to reload a save state dozens of times in a row. I can do almost anything except IBJ, but just because I can do them doesn't mean they're easy and they can often slow down the game for me if they're too evil.

DonnyDonovan

2008-06-23 05:51:37 pm

Exactly. It's not that I "can't" do most of the hard stuff (save for HBJ), it's that for many players, it's just not fun. Having to do something 50 times in a row isn't fun. Dying 100 times in five minutes and having to continually reload a state isn't fun. Having to use slowdown all the time isn't fun. When I play a hack I want to be challenged, but there's a point where it just gets frustrating. I don't have the reflexes where things like flat mockballs, super short charges and infinite bomb jumps become second nature, and I don't have the time to make them such.

BTW, I understand some people love those types of challenges. I understand some people love hacks like Impossible and Noobsmasher. I'm just not one of those people. So I really appreciate when hackmakers provide an option for us mere mortals. And don't get me wrong, I don't expect a hack to have the same difficulty as vanilla SM. I don't mind if some insanity is required for 100%. Legacy, SFI, they can be too easy in places. Challenge, within reason, is great. But the option of a happy medium isn't a bad thing.

Exactly.  It's not that I "can't" do most of the hard stuff (save for HBJ), it's that for many players, it's just not fun.  Having to do something 50 times in a row isn't fun.  Dying 100 times in five minutes and having to continually reload a state isn't fun.  Having to use slowdown all the time isn't fun.  When I play a hack I want to be challenged, but there's a point where it just gets frustrating.  I don't have the reflexes where things like flat mockballs, super short charges and infinite bomb jumps become second nature, and I don't have the time to make them such.

BTW, I understand some people love those types of challenges.  I understand some people love hacks like Impossible and Noobsmasher.  I'm just not one of those people.  So I really appreciate when hackmakers provide an option for us mere mortals.  And don't get me wrong, I don't expect a hack to have the same difficulty as vanilla SM.  I don't mind if some insanity is required for 100%.  Legacy, SFI, they can be too easy in places.  Challenge, within reason, is great.  But the option of a happy medium isn't a bad thing.

DMantra

(user is banned)

2008-06-23 06:40:29 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Thanks for your opinions.

Bolognab

2008-06-23 07:38:31 pm

hmm, i see your points.

DMantra

(user is banned)

DMantra

Edit history:

DMantra: 2008-06-24 03:11:14 am

2008-06-23 11:18:21 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Just a heads up, I'll be looking for a beta tester soon for the easy version.
However I'll need a tester that is, err.. not so good at advanced moves.
The goal is to see if a moderate player can do it.

Cardweaver

2008-06-24 02:22:31 am

Quote from DMantra:

not so good at advanced moves.

What if I agree to play really badly as a substitute for being not so good? winky

DMantra

(user is banned)

2008-06-24 03:12:23 am

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Cardweaver:

Quote from DMantra:

not so good at advanced moves.

What if I agree to play really badly as a substitute for being not so good? winky

Hah :P Save your first time for the original version Cardweaver :-D

devonodev

2008-06-24 04:27:55 am

Devonodev: Other D

i might try the easy version as a warm up for the real thing Very Happy

	Just normal midair morphs for me plz =(	(6)
	I can walljump into a midair morph	(19)
	I can walljump into a midair morph under duress of water and/or spikes pretty well	(20)
	--I can't midair morph at all ;_;	(1)