How good are MP sequels compared to the original?

2011-07-10 06:22:16 pm

Although I hate to admit it, I've only managed to play the first game in the Metroid Prime series and I'm somewhat interested in trying out the others. While I don't expect them to be as good as the first, I'd like to know the ups and downs of each one. Can you guys explain in some detail? Thanks.

Thread title:

MilesSMB

2011-07-10 06:36:57 pm

...Not the best place to ask.

Ntsc

2011-07-10 07:37:57 pm

Well it depends on what you enjoyed about Prime.

If you enjoyed being lost a bit, exploring because you don't exactly know where to go, all with the possibility of dieing during a boss fight and having to do 10-15 minutes over again I would recommend Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.

Overall it is a fairly good sequel to Metroid Prime if you follow the above statement. I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking and there is the added annoyance of light/dark worlds and ammo but overall it is a more challenging metroid prime that uses the exact same engine and controls.

You can skip echoes if you'd like though without really missing anything story wise.

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption is a pretty good game on its own. If you enjoyed Prime you will enjoy Corruption about 80% of the time. The controls are frustrating at times due to the location of the A button (just try mashing it for 5 minutes straight for boss fights - it is almost as bad as some torture scenes in the Metal Gear Solid series). The twist/push/pull controls used for some bosses but mostly for switches is really annoying to but only because the controller isn't sensitive enough.

Story wise it has the best in the series but that isn't saying much because 1 and 2 stories could probably fit on a single page and under 10ish pages if you include all lore scans.

Corruption almost completely lacks the exploration element from Prime though. Even with the hint system turned off you will be constantly pestered by the game to go to certain places.

Well it depends on what you enjoyed about Prime.

If you enjoyed being lost a bit, exploring because you don't exactly know where to go, all with the possibility of dieing during a boss fight and having to do 10-15 minutes over again I would recommend Metroid Prime 2 Echoes.

Overall it is a fairly good sequel to Metroid Prime if you follow the above statement. I wouldn't expect anything groundbreaking and there is the added annoyance of light/dark worlds and ammo but overall it is a more challenging metroid prime that uses the exact same engine and controls.

You can skip echoes if you'd like though without really missing anything story wise.

Metroid Prime 3: Corruption is a pretty good game on its own. If you enjoyed Prime you will enjoy Corruption about 80% of the time. The controls are frustrating at times due to the location of the A button (just try mashing it for 5 minutes straight for boss fights - it is almost as bad as some torture scenes in the Metal Gear Solid series). The twist/push/pull controls used for some bosses but mostly for switches is really annoying to but only because the controller isn't sensitive enough.

Story wise it has the best in the series but that isn't saying much because 1 and 2 stories could probably fit on a single page and under 10ish pages if you include all lore scans.

Corruption almost completely lacks the exploration element from Prime though. Even with the hint system turned off you will be constantly pestered by the game to go to certain places.

tomatobob

2011-07-11 02:58:29 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

How do you get lost in Echoes? Keep in mind my definition of lost is "Lots of ways to go, and no way to tell which is right." There's not really a choice in Echoes. Once you get to a new area, get the translator and immediately turn around and head to the least reasonable place you've already seen, that's your way forward every time. I may just be bitter about that bullshit with the power bombs. _{Fuck Lower Torvus}

Granted there wasn't much choice in Prime either, but the progression felt more natural. Maybe it wasn't having to watch the same cut scene three times just to watch the elevator scene so I can watch the portal scene some more and another elevator and also portals. Or maybe it was having less shoehorned in boss fights which is good because the Prime games are not good at bosses. Call me crazy but just walking into this huge empty room with the space jump boots dead in the center and not getting jumped by a lame miniboss was really cool.

It totally would have been a slightly reskinned sheegoth though, it would be different because it'd have a shock wave attack like every other boss/large opponent!

I very much take issue with the statement that Corruption had "the best" story on the grounds that the other two had very little. That's bullshit, having more doesn't make it better and it sure as hell was not in anyway resembling good.

Quote from The Feds:

Oh no our mother brains are all fucked up and one is missing! Call a few bounty hunters! Oh no Pirates, go get them bounty hunters! Oh no our orbital defense system controlled from our huge military base, fix it bounty hunters you're totally cleared to handle this sort of thing, it's just a button!

Oh no you got Phazoned! We made you more Phazoned I hope you don't mind, please go do that thing we asked you to do before the pirates and also find our ~mysteriously disappeared~ bounty hunters who we also Phazoned Up and also those Phazon Seeds.

Check out this planet the dudes here all became monsters because scientists fought magicians, also that other bounty hunter Frozone went Phazon Crazy or something can't imagine why it sure is surprising though!

Ooh look at this planet, Robot Bespin, it's kinda Steam Punk! Oh and this mother brain has Phazonitis use this bit of code to unphazon it I guess, no I don't know why this works on this weird meat looking computer and also Phazon but not you or your suit, just go with it. Oh look at that Robot Hunter gone crazed too, shocking and worrying!

Oh hey, we're going to just attack the Pirate Homeworld now I guess, I don't know, the weird purple one found it for us I guess but has also disappeared and maybe proved beyond all doubt that we really aren't very good at this whole fighting pirates thing since it we don't even know what that star system is. Oh by the way she also went crazy oops. This was a stunning twist indeed!

Oh so the pirates are all hanging out around this planet made of Phazon that spits out Phazon to infect other planets and make them also Phazon go land there and attack it or something, you blow up a lot of planets so maybe you can do this one too,

Oh wow good thing you survived that Samus, were in great suspense and possible distress over you're potential loss!

Corruption should have been just another dumb Space Marine FPS. Well I mean yeah it basically was but, they could have dropped the pretense and made a better game. Prime and admittedly less so Echoes had the decency to just say, "Hey here's a planet there's some neat stuff to discover about it and the pirates are doing bad shit, just wander around and explode them." None of this "Shit dude you gotta do this now we're so serious we have to stop you at every turn to say shit that's only barely coherent and mostly boring!" The logs were a lot more fun when you had a whole mess of them dedicated to fleshing out a single location as opposed to trying to make several locations appear interesting.

How do you get lost in Echoes? Keep in mind my definition of lost is "Lots of ways to go, and no way to tell which is right." There's not really a choice in Echoes. Once you get to a new area, get the translator and immediately turn around and head to the least reasonable place you've already seen, that's your way forward every time. I may just be bitter about that bullshit with the power bombs. [sub]Fuck Lower Torvus[/sub]

Granted there wasn't much choice in Prime either, but the progression felt more natural. Maybe it wasn't having to watch the same cut scene three times just to watch the elevator scene so I can watch the portal scene some more and another elevator and also portals. Or maybe it was having less shoehorned in boss fights which is good because the Prime games are not good at bosses. Call me crazy but just walking into this huge empty room with the space jump boots dead in the center and [i]not[/i] getting jumped by a lame miniboss was really cool.:smile_orig:

It totally would have been a slightly reskinned sheegoth though, it would be different because it'd have a shock wave attack like every other boss/large opponent!

I very much take issue with the statement that Corruption had "the best" story on the grounds that the other two had very little. That's bullshit, having more doesn't make it better and it sure as hell was not in anyway resembling good.

[quote="The Feds"]Oh no our mother brains are all fucked up and one is missing! Call a few bounty hunters! Oh no Pirates, go get them bounty hunters! Oh no our orbital defense system controlled from our huge military base, fix it bounty hunters you're totally cleared to handle this sort of thing, it's just a button!

Oh no you got Phazoned! We made you more Phazoned I hope you don't mind, please go do that thing we asked you to do before the pirates and also find our ~mysteriously disappeared~ bounty hunters who we also Phazoned Up and also those Phazon Seeds.

Check out this planet the dudes here all became monsters because scientists fought magicians, also that other bounty hunter Frozone went Phazon Crazy or something can't imagine why it sure is surprising though!

Ooh look at this planet, Robot Bespin, it's kinda Steam Punk! Oh and this mother brain has Phazonitis use this bit of code to unphazon it I guess, no I don't know why this works on this weird meat looking computer and also Phazon but not you or your suit, just go with it. Oh look at that Robot Hunter gone crazed too, shocking [i]and [/i]worrying!

Oh hey, we're going to just attack the Pirate Homeworld now I guess, I don't know, the weird purple one found it for us I guess but has also disappeared and maybe proved beyond all doubt that we really aren't very good at this whole fighting pirates thing since it we don't even know what that star system is. Oh by the way she also went crazy oops. This was a stunning twist indeed!

Oh so the pirates are all hanging out around this planet made of Phazon that spits out Phazon to infect other planets and make them also Phazon go land there and attack it or something, you blow up a lot of planets so maybe you can do this one too,

Oh wow good thing you survived that Samus, were in great suspense and possible distress over you're potential loss![/quote]
Corruption should have been just another dumb Space Marine FPS. Well I mean yeah it basically was but, they could have dropped the pretense and made a better game. Prime and admittedly less so Echoes had the decency to just say, "Hey here's a planet there's some neat stuff to discover about it and the pirates are doing bad shit, just wander around and explode them." None of this "Shit dude you gotta do this now we're so serious we have to stop you at every turn to say shit that's only barely coherent and mostly boring!" The logs were a lot more fun when you had a whole mess of them dedicated to fleshing out a single location as opposed to trying to make several locations appear interesting.

tomatobob

2011-07-11 03:18:10 am

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Honestly, much as I hate on Echoes, I've definitely begun to see why Paraxade and some others, I think Miles is one of them, say that it's better designed than Corruption. The weird progression and level and boss design issues really seem to have been exacerbated in Corrpution, and it's not like Prime didn't have it's moments where an item was placed somewhere that feels like it's there just to make you back track in the name of "exploration". But from game to game it just gets sillier. Echoes had most notably the power bomb debacle, in Corruption it's basically every item, every single one is on the ass end of the universe from whatever planet actually needs it and the bosses are even more tedious exercises in repetition and that starts from the very first miniboss. It's like Retro took the worst parts of Prime and thought, "This is what people played and loved Metroid Prime for, let's do this again, BUT BIGGER!" for each sequel. I think the stupid Energy Cell hunt was slightly better than the Artifacts/Temple Keys because... Wait no now that I'm trying to put into words It probably was just as stupid if not more so.

So I guess if you want to play a Prime sequel, Idkbutlke2, I -And I'm struggling to type this out and realize how absurd it's going to sound coming from me, but I promise I'm not trolling or anything- I would say play Echoes. Play that one because it is a better game than Corruption. I don't like and I don't think it's fun, but it's better and more like Prime than Corruption is. Even if Light World/Dark World is the worst video game mechanic and has been since video games began.

Honestly, much as I hate on Echoes, I've definitely begun to see why Paraxade and some others, I think Miles is one of them, say that it's better designed than Corruption. The weird progression and level and boss design issues really seem to have been exacerbated in Corrpution, and it's not like Prime didn't have it's moments where an item was placed somewhere that feels like it's there just to make you back track in the name of "exploration". But from game to game it just gets sillier. Echoes had most notably the power bomb debacle, in Corruption it's basically every item, every single one is on the ass end of the universe from whatever planet actually needs it and the bosses are even more tedious exercises in repetition and that starts from the [i]very first miniboss[/i]. It's like Retro took the worst parts of Prime and thought, "This is what people played and loved Metroid Prime for, let's do this again, BUT BIGGER!" for each sequel. I think the stupid Energy Cell hunt was slightly better than the Artifacts/Temple Keys because... Wait no now that I'm trying to put into words It probably was just as stupid if not more so.

So I guess if you want to play a Prime sequel, Idkbutlke2, I -And I'm struggling to type this out and realize how absurd it's going to sound coming from me, but I promise I'm not trolling or anything- I would say play Echoes. Play that one because it is a better game than Corruption. I don't like and I don't think it's fun, but it's better and more like Prime than Corruption is. Even if Light World/Dark World is the worst video game mechanic and has been since video games began.

Turtle

2011-07-11 08:45:10 am

I like turtles.

I don't hate Echoes nearly as much as tomatobob (although the backtrackin' for Seeker Missiles and Power Bombs sucked) - in my mind the first two are both great games (with the second being admittedly less great than its predecessor), and the third made the jump ~~to lightspeed~~ straight down to "mediocre."

Echoes has this wonderful sort of creepy vibe to it, which really goes a long way in a Metroid title (hey, it even made Other M suck less!), while Corruption always felt more like either "wartime" or "ewwwww she's puking Phazon" without much "creepy" involved. Echoes feels less... fragmented than Corruption, because while there is backtracking, there isn't nearly as much of it. Unlike tbob, I rather thought the whole Dark World mechanic worked pretty well (maybe not as well as ALttP's, but). Apart from being forced to watch the Portal cutscene over and over (I would imagine that they don't have any other opportunity to load Dark Aether and figured "well, it's better than just a boring black screen), it really isn't bad.

Also, Prime and Echoes together make a completely self-contained story without Corruption, if you ignore the secret ending in the latter. So yeah, Echoes > Corruption.

I don't hate [i]Echoes[/i] nearly as much as tomatobob (although the backtrackin' for Seeker Missiles and Power Bombs sucked) - in my mind the first two are both great games (with the second being admittedly less great than its predecessor), and the third made the jump [s]to lightspeed[/s] straight down to "mediocre."

Echoes has this wonderful sort of creepy vibe to it, which really goes a long way in a [i]Metroid[/i] title (hey, it even made [i]Other M[/i] suck less!), while [i]Corruption[/i] always felt more like either "wartime" or "ewwwww she's puking Phazon" without much "creepy" involved.  Echoes feels less... fragmented than [i]Corruption[/i], because while there is backtracking, there isn't nearly as much of it.  Unlike tbob, I rather thought the whole Dark World mechanic worked pretty well (maybe not as well as ALttP's, but).  Apart from being forced to watch the Portal cutscene over and over (I would imagine that they don't have any other opportunity to load Dark Aether and figured "well, it's better than just a boring black screen), it really isn't bad.

Also, [i]Prime[/i] and [i]Echoes[/i] together make a completely self-contained story without [i]Corruption[/i], if you ignore the secret ending in the latter.  So yeah, [i]Echoes[/i] > [i]Corruption[/i].

ryu

2011-07-11 11:30:21 am

what annoys me about echoes and corruption is the linear level design. the backtracking wouldn't be half as bad if you had some more freedom in choosing a route.

arkarian

Edit history:

arkarian: 2011-07-11 02:48:34 pm

2011-07-11 01:09:11 pm

red chamber dream

for all the flak i give echoes, it's actually a much better game than corruption. no seriously.

nate

2011-07-11 02:43:35 pm

if you like watching speedruns, prime 2's are lightyears ahead of prime 3 stuff due to the amount and significance of tricks found in the game.

BioSpark

2011-07-11 07:04:06 pm

maybe even more so than prime, at least in regard to secret worlds. shame that people never really gave them much attention.

Opium

2011-07-11 07:08:06 pm

Echoes is my fav title in the trilogy. It's quite different from Prime, though - so liking Prime isn't really any kind of indicator as to what you might think of Echoes. It's longer and more challenging than Prime, and the game just looks better overall. (Anyone who quotes this along with a reminder of how it's just my opinion need not waste their time. I'm already aware that it is my opinion, thanks.)
Corruption is my least fav, but it's still a damn good game. Not sure how one could play the first two without gaining an interest in playing the third game. It quite nicely wraps up the storyline of the trilogy. I think it's definitely the easiest game out of the three. It's still plenty fun, though.

tomatobob

2011-07-11 09:38:20 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

I don't know, Corruption never really looked like it was going to be all that good and Echoes made for a pretty good ending point for that little story, so not being interested in 3 after playing 1 and 2 doesn't seem far fetched. Actually Corruption's wrap up felt more like a cheap "Oh shit this thing's kinda gotten gotten away from us, how do we make phazon not an issue since it's never mentioned in the games that happen later?" The answer is apparently, welp it's gone now. Phazon was more fun when it was just this semi sentient thing that caused mutations that led to space pirates doing awesomely stupid shit with it.

Opium

2011-07-12 01:54:35 pm

I loved the way that Corruption wrapped up the story. The fact that the cosmic collisions on Tallon IV and Aether were not natural events kinda blew me away. The final battle was kinda for the sake of the whole galaxy, which was intense. The drama about having to kill your friends was kinda cool, too. I also loved how Mother Brain was explained to be an aurora unit, which kinda told the story of metroid going back to original game.
I guess my appreciation of the storytelling in Corruption (and every other game ever made) has greatly increased after beholding the enormous pile of rancid feces that Other M calls a story.

Turtle

2011-07-12 02:03:21 pm

I like turtles.

Everything looks good next to Other M. Fusion is enjoying similar vindication.

tomatobob

2011-07-12 05:15:15 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Opium:

I loved the way that Corruption wrapped up the story. The fact that the cosmic collisions on Tallon IV and Aether were not natural events kinda blew me away. The final battle was kinda for the sake of the whole galaxy, which was intense. The drama about having to kill your friends was kinda cool, too.

Every final battle in the Metroid seems to be billed as "To save the galaxy from the ______ Menace" though, I guess Corruption's version didn't really grab me because it was just kinda stupid. I don't know, I just like Phazon better when it was scarce and mysterious Coruption just threw it around all over and then made a planet that's actively trying to Phazon things and ugh.

Did you have to kill friends in Corruption? I'd think the other Hunters would have needed more screen time and possibly be actual characters to establish anything beyond mooks that were going to die anyway. I guess Frozone was ok, he pulled Samus out of a pit that one time. the game wasn't written anywhere near well enough for me to care about them or be shocked when they turned into bosses. It was kind of the opposite of dramatic tension.

But, that's fair point about Other M and certainly something to take into consideration!

[quote="Opium"]I loved the way that Corruption wrapped up the story.  The fact that the cosmic collisions on Tallon IV and Aether were not natural events kinda blew me away.  The final battle was kinda for the sake of the whole galaxy, which was intense.  The drama about having to kill your friends was kinda cool, too.[/quote]

Every final battle in the Metroid seems to be billed as "To save the galaxy from the ______ Menace" though, I guess Corruption's version didn't really grab me because it was just kinda stupid. I don't know, I just like Phazon better when it was scarce and mysterious Coruption just threw it around all over and then made a planet that's actively trying to Phazon things and ugh.

Did you have to kill friends in Corruption? I'd think the other Hunters would have needed more screen time and possibly be actual characters to establish anything beyond mooks that were going to die anyway. I guess Frozone was ok, he pulled Samus out of a pit that one time. the game wasn't written anywhere [i]near[/i] well enough for me to care about them or be shocked when they turned into bosses. It was kind of the opposite of dramatic tension.

But, that's fair point about Other M and certainly something to take into consideration!

Behemoth

2011-07-13 02:52:01 pm

Yeah I don't get the "emotion" about killing the hunters. There just wasn't enough screen time with them to form any kind of bond.

I share opium's opinion of Echoes being the favourite. It's not perfect but it has something about it that makes it the most replayable for me. I think it might actually be the light and dark ammo situation. I don't understand the complaints about it. It isn't at all troublesome to keep them stocked and makes the game play a bit deeper because you have to be economical with them. When you've run out of ammo the game helpfully gives out large ammunition anyway. Boss fights have a larger capacity for strategy because you can use the correct beam for the correct phases, making the fights shorter and easier, and that makes it more rewarding, because it's something you've learned that you probably missed the first time. Add in the creepiness and evil purple colors of the dark world and you got yourself a contender for one of the better Metroid games. Also, Sanctuary Fortress is lush, both visually and sonically.

Yeah I don't get the "emotion" about killing the hunters. There just wasn't enough screen time with them to form any kind of bond.

I share opium's opinion of Echoes being the favourite. It's not perfect but it has something about it that makes it the most replayable for me. I think it might actually be the light and dark ammo situation. I don't understand the complaints about it. It isn't at all troublesome to keep them stocked and makes the game play a bit deeper because you have to be economical with them. When you've run out of ammo the game helpfully gives out large ammunition anyway. Boss fights have a larger capacity for strategy because you can use the correct beam for the correct phases, making the fights shorter and easier, and that makes it more rewarding, because it's something you've learned that you probably missed the first time. Add in the creepiness and evil purple colors of the dark world and you got yourself a contender for one of the better Metroid games. Also, Sanctuary Fortress is lush, both visually and sonically.

tomatobob

2011-07-13 05:21:55 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Behemoth:

I think it might actually be the light and dark ammo situation. I don't understand the complaints about it. It isn't at all troublesome to keep them stocked and makes the game play a bit deeper because you have to be economical with them. When you've run out of ammo the game helpfully gives out large ammunition anyway.

So why have an ammo system at all then? Seems to me that the entire point of limiting ammo for guns is to make sure you don't just stick with the "best" one and just steamroll everything. Ammo's only close to being an issue in boss fights but even most of those let you refill during the battle. Well I guess it's also an issue if you use the Annihilator at all since it eats ammo and also is a piece of shit, but as a rule, you're right ammo is not really a problem. I felt more pressure to conserve ammo in freaking Goldeneye. It just feels like some dumb FPS thing they added to be more like The Halos.

Honestly the power beam seemed just more effective overall for most situations the dark beam was good for a couple annoying enemies and the light beam seemed pretty useless outside of a few bosses.

[quote="Behemoth"]I think it might actually be the light and dark ammo situation. I don't understand the complaints about it. It isn't at all troublesome to keep them stocked and makes the game play a bit deeper because you have to be economical with them. When you've run out of ammo the game helpfully gives out large ammunition anyway.[/quote]
So why have an ammo system at all then? Seems to me that the entire point of limiting ammo for guns is to make sure you don't just stick with the "best" one and just steamroll everything. Ammo's only close to being an issue in boss fights but even most of those let you refill during the battle. Well I guess it's also an issue if you use the Annihilator at all since it eats ammo and also is a piece of shit, but as a rule, you're right ammo is not really a problem. I felt more pressure to conserve ammo in freaking Goldeneye. It just feels like some dumb FPS thing they added to be more like The Halos.

Honestly the power beam seemed just more effective overall for most situations the dark beam was good for a couple annoying enemies and the light beam seemed pretty useless outside of a few bosses.

Opium

2011-07-13 05:51:32 pm

Quote from tomatobob:

Seems to me that the entire point of limiting ammo for guns is to make sure you don't just stick with the "best" one and just steamroll everything.

Quoted for truth. This is why missiles are a limited/replenishable ammo in every metroid game. If missiles were unlimited, then there would be hardly any use in firing your beams. I think they made light/dark beams in MP2 as part of an ammo system for the same reason they have always made missiles that way. It just gives you one more factor to consider in your strategy. It's not like they don't constantly throw refills at you, nor is it too confusing to factor in your ammo levels, so I don't know why some people get their panties all bunched up over it.

Behemoth

2011-07-13 05:52:44 pm

I don't think it's necessary to question why to have ammo. The fact is it's there and just gives it that added depth, not much but something different (at least for a metroid game) to spicen things up. I thought the power beam was useless in echoes. The light and dark beam were important, the game felt as if it forced me to use it and experiment with it, which again is part of the enjoyment. If you go through the game hammering away with a weak weapon the game is going to feel laborious especially on hard mode. The bosses for sure are much more fun when you use corresponding beams to penetrate their weaknesses.

arkarian

2011-07-13 06:40:45 pm

red chamber dream

so the power beam feeling useless is a good thing? i used it a lot in prime, even after getting wave and ice, and neither of those required ammo to stay balanced.

MilesSMB

2011-07-13 06:50:32 pm

Quote from arkarian:

even after getting wave

Wave is weaker than the Power Beam. >_>

tomatobob

2011-07-13 06:51:52 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Quote from Behemoth:

I don't think it's necessary to question why to have ammo. The fact is it's there and just gives it that added depth, not much but something different (at least for a metroid game) to spicen things up.

Just being there isn't good enough, though, it only adds depth if it actually restricts your use of the weapons if ammo is figuratively limited but infinite in practice then there's no point in having ammo outside of making it seem different or more challenging or strategic than it actually is.

Missiles also have this issue to an extent, but they are extremely limited in the beginning of each game compared to Echoes and it's beams and coincidentally the early game is when missiles are at their best, later on you'll have piles of them and never use them but the limiting factor was there when it was important. Beam ammo is given out like candy, enemies drop it, containers drop it, the only difference between the Light Beam and Prime's plasma beam is that you'll have to stop occasionally and shoot a box with the dark beam to keep the light beam going. That and the light beam isn't half the crazy murder machine the plasma beam is.

Quote from Behemoth:

The bosses for sure are much more fun when you use corresponding beams to penetrate their weaknesses.

That's the only time the weaknesses matter though, and all it did was make the fights slightly faster and thus slightly less tedious, just like using the plasma beam on Thardus makes that fight slightly faster and slightly less tedious. I never noticed any great difference. A charged power beam shot and maybe a missile or partially charged shot is more than sufficient for dealing with most basic enemies you can't just ignore. The only other beam I used often outside of boss fights was the dark beam because some enemies are annoying if you don't freeze them. maybe the other beams would have been more effective I honestly don't know if they are or not but I can't say there's any great incentive for me to use them.

Thinking about it, a lot of the regular enemies in Echoes seem really non threatening in comparison to Prime, maybe there's more room to avoid them or something but I always felt more compelled to deal with enemies rather than avoid them in the first game. Or maybe the power beam really is that bad and killing them just felt like a pain in the ass the first time so I just instinctively don't care in Echoes. I do like the aesthetics of the beams in Prime more so maybe I just like firing them more.

[quote="Behemoth"]I don't think it's necessary to question why to have ammo. The fact is it's there and just gives it that added depth, not much but something different (at least for a metroid game) to spicen things up.[/quote]
Just being there isn't good enough, though, it only adds depth if it actually restricts your use of the weapons if ammo is figuratively limited but infinite in practice then there's no point in having ammo outside of making it seem different or more challenging or strategic than it actually is.

Missiles also have this issue to an extent, but they are extremely limited in the beginning of each game compared to Echoes and it's beams and coincidentally the early game is when missiles are at their best, later on you'll have piles of them and never use them but the limiting factor was there when it was important. Beam ammo is given out like candy, enemies drop it, containers drop it, the only difference between the Light Beam and Prime's plasma beam is that you'll have to stop occasionally and shoot a box with the dark beam to keep the light beam going. That and the light beam isn't half the crazy murder machine the plasma beam is.

[quote="Behemoth"]The bosses for sure are much more fun when you use corresponding beams to penetrate their weaknesses.[/quote]
That's the only time the weaknesses matter though, and all it did was make the fights slightly faster and thus slightly less tedious, just like using the plasma beam on Thardus makes that fight slightly faster and slightly less tedious. I never noticed any great difference. A charged power beam shot and maybe a missile or partially charged shot is more than sufficient for dealing with most basic enemies you can't just ignore. The only other beam I used often outside of boss fights was the dark beam because some enemies are annoying if you don't freeze them. maybe the other beams would have been more effective I honestly don't know if they are or not but I can't say there's any great incentive for me to use them.

Thinking about it, a lot of the regular enemies in Echoes seem really non threatening in comparison to Prime, maybe there's more room to avoid them or something but I always felt more compelled to deal with enemies rather than avoid them in the first game. Or maybe the power beam really is that bad and killing them just felt like a pain in the ass the first time so I just instinctively don't care in Echoes. I do like the aesthetics of the beams in Prime more so maybe I just like firing them more.

arkarian

2011-07-13 06:52:38 pm

red chamber dream

Quote from MilesSMB:

Quote from arkarian:

even after getting wave

Wave is weaker than the Power Beam. >_>

oh nice, didn't know that. thought it was just slower.

MilesSMB

2011-07-13 06:56:20 pm

I should clarify a bit... Charged Wave is weaker than Charged Power. Each of the 3 little waves in an uncharged wave shot is equal to 1 Power Beam shot (so it's 3x stronger if they all hit), though of course there's a longer cooldown between shots.

arkarian

2011-07-13 06:58:53 pm

red chamber dream

ah ok, that's what i thought. didn't know about charged being less powerful though.