Honestly, what would you rate this game? (MII)

2004-03-01 07:40:50 pm

Quote from RoboBlob:

It didn't make sense though. Why would a normal metroid, whose only weakness is ice, evolve into something that can be killed with missiles? Why were there no other metroid games with alphas and such? Why were there only 48 metroids on the entire planet? (including the queen, but not the larva) Why I asks! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!?

I've just been messing about on Fusion, and I think I came up with a new answer for this, one which makes a lot of sense.

Now, in Fusion, Samus gains a Metroids ability to absorb X parasites, right? Well, occasionally, when absorbing a big X, Samus will restore an old ability of her power suit. Why does this happen? Well, look at the attack forms of the enemies you get the suit's powers back from. To a certain degree, all of the enemies have powers similar to what Samus gets back from them. So, Samus is inheriting certain properties of the previous hosts of the X she absorbs. As for why she only inherits her old abilities, I'll say either she had the before, so it's easier for her suit to mutate into a form with those abilities and she'd have to absorb a hell of a lot of X to get anything new, or it's just plain coincidence.

Now, if a Metroid can absorb X in the sae fashon, maybe they can mutate in the sae fashon? I'm not sure exactly what creatures they're getting their new forms from, but there's a large enough variety of SR388 life that they're probably a mixture of different creatures. In my opinion, this certainly explains why evolved Metroids no longer seem to have the ability to drain Samus' energy and gain a weakness to conventional attacks: It's not in their nature to gain these new features, so they don't have to make sense.

This also explains why there are no evolved X anywhere else except the BSL station: its the only place Metroids are taken to that also has X in it. When the scientists were recreating the natural environment for Metroids, they were putting SR388 creatures in there, some of which were probably X hosts. It says nowhere in Fusion that the scientists knew why their methods of producing an Omega quickly worked, so it's easily possible for them to do it without realising X are involved.

The difference between Fusions Omega and the natural Omegas are that the Fusion Omega was grown very quickly, so it may have only absorbed the X that give it the appearance of an Omega, and not necessarily all of those that would give it an Omegas abilities. The fact that Samus can freeze its insides through the tough exterior can be attributed to the ice-plasma combo as stateed below, and the fight took place in a very cold environment, anyway: The hanger door was blown off, exposing the whole area to deep space.

Whoa, sorry for the long post! I thought I only posted a couple of short paragraphs. Anyway, I think I've covered everything that needs covering there.

[quote="RoboBlob"]It didn't make sense though.  Why would a normal metroid, whose only weakness is ice, evolve into something that can be killed with missiles?  Why were there no other metroid games with alphas and such?  Why were there only 48 metroids on the entire planet? (including the queen, but not the larva)  Why I asks! WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!!!!?[/quote]
I've just been messing about on Fusion, and I think I came up with a new answer for this, one which makes a lot of sense.

Now, in Fusion, Samus gains a Metroids ability to absorb X parasites, right? Well, occasionally, when absorbing a big X, Samus will restore an old ability of her power suit. Why does this happen? Well, look at the attack forms of the enemies you get the suit's powers back from. To a certain degree, all of the enemies have powers similar to what Samus gets back from them. So, Samus is inheriting certain properties of the previous hosts of the X she absorbs. As for why she only inherits her old abilities, I'll say either she had the before, so it's easier for her suit to mutate into a form with those abilities and she'd have to absorb a hell of a lot of X to get anything new, or it's just plain coincidence.

Now, if a Metroid can absorb X in the sae fashon, maybe they can mutate in the sae fashon? I'm not sure exactly what creatures they're getting their new forms from, but there's a large enough variety of SR388 life that they're probably a mixture of different creatures. In my opinion, this certainly explains why evolved Metroids no longer seem to have the ability to drain Samus' energy and gain a weakness to conventional attacks: It's not in their nature to gain these new features, so they don't have to make sense.

This also explains why there are no evolved X anywhere else except the BSL station: its the only place Metroids are taken to that also has X in it. When the scientists were recreating the natural environment for Metroids, they were putting SR388 creatures in there, some of which were probably X hosts. It says nowhere in Fusion that the scientists knew [i]why[/i] their methods of producing an Omega quickly worked, so it's easily possible for them to do it without realising X are involved.

The difference between Fusions Omega and the natural Omegas are that the Fusion Omega was grown very quickly, so it may have only absorbed the X that give it the appearance of an Omega, and not necessarily all of those that would give it an Omegas abilities. The fact that Samus can freeze its insides through the tough exterior can be attributed to the ice-plasma combo as stateed below, and the fight took place in a very cold environment, anyway: The hanger door was blown off, exposing the whole area to deep space.

Whoa, sorry for the long post! I thought I only posted a couple of short paragraphs. Anyway, I think I've covered everything that needs covering there.

Frozy

2004-03-02 06:32:19 am

Well, it's possible that some of you are right, possible that some of you are wrong, who knows, the Games didn't explain it, but what you say is surely interesting and makes logic

Anyway, Metroid 2 is my First Metroid game, i got it when i was a small Kid, i live in Israel, and Consoles here are pretty rare(especially Nintendo Consoles) so i have to get my consoles and games from my Aunt who lives in the US and visits us once a year or so.
In one of her visits she brought me Metroid 2, the game seemed a little weird to me, but soon i got what i have to do, and after some time i beat it(and i discovered some tricks and got all of the power-ups, took me some time to do that, i was a small kid after all).
Anyway, since i didn't play any Metroid game before Metroid 2, i really loved it, the big world was something new to me, The Gameplay was great, so many things to collect, so many things to discover... i'll always have a place of honor for that game, even after i played and beat All of the Metroid games(I now own a Gamecube and a SNES, both are very hard to get in here, i also plan on getting a GameBoy Player someday)
Besides, Metroid 2 had improvements since the original Metroid, and it was a big part of the way that made Super Metroid what it is
This days i still own the original cart, and i even play it sometimes, the Save Battery still works great.
I give the game a 9

Well, it's possible that some of you are right, possible that some of you are wrong, who knows, the Games didn't explain it, but what you say is surely interesting and makes logic

Anyway, Metroid 2 is my First Metroid game, i got it when i was a small Kid, i live in Israel, and Consoles here are pretty rare(especially Nintendo Consoles) so i have to get my consoles and games from my Aunt who lives in the US and visits us once a year or so.
In one of her visits she brought me Metroid 2, the game seemed a little weird to me, but soon i got what i have to do, and after some time i beat it(and i discovered some tricks and got all of the power-ups, took me some time to do that, i was a small kid after all).
Anyway, since i didn't play any Metroid game before Metroid 2, i really loved it, the big world was something new to me, The Gameplay was great, so many things to collect, so many things to discover... i'll always have a place of honor for that game, even after i played and beat All of the Metroid games(I now own a Gamecube and a SNES, both are very hard to get in here, i also plan on getting a GameBoy Player someday)
Besides, Metroid 2 had improvements since the original Metroid, and it was a big part of the way that made Super Metroid what it is
This days i still own the original cart, and i even play it sometimes, the Save Battery still works great.
I give the game a 9

Kirby Pufocia

2004-03-06 11:05:13 pm

I just figured I'd mention that the ice beam works in a manner similar to freon (used as a coolant in large mechanical devices); it rapidly absorbs moisture from an object until it eventually freezes.

The reason this works much better on larval Metroids than the evolved stages is because the shell of the former consists entirely of a gelatinous liquid membrane. Obviously, freezing is much more rapid dependant upon the amount of moisture present on a target. Naturally, consisting almost entirely of a liquid, larval Metroids freeze instantly.

The evolved versions, however, do not have such a glaring weakness. The membrane that used to be its shell is now safely tucked away in the Metroid's abdomen. Being such a large creature, the small ice projectiles can do naught but bounce off of them. With thick skin (which would house little moisture; compare moisture of our skin to that of a reptile's) and a much larger surface area, the ice beam simply does not adversely affect these Metroids.

Naturally, this bears the question, "but what about the Alpha Metroids? Surely, they are not yet evolved to a degree that would outright cancel the effects of the ice beam." I believe the answer to this query is obvious: Return of Samus just so happens to be a video game. As a result of this, Alpha metroids will not freeze because they are not programmed to; they will not succumb to reason. Next time you encounter one, shout at the screen, "Alpha Metroid, logic dictates that you should be deterred by my ice beam," and note what happens next. In the most likely case, you will now be staring at a Game Over screen, as it does not take as long for a Metroid to kill you as it does for the average person to utter the afforementioned phrase.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to make a cure for cancer while disproving the theory of relativity. Good evening.

I just figured I'd mention that the ice beam works in a manner similar to freon (used as a coolant in large mechanical devices); it rapidly absorbs moisture from an object until it eventually freezes.

The reason this works much better on larval Metroids than the evolved stages is because the shell of the former consists entirely of a gelatinous liquid membrane.  Obviously, freezing is much more rapid dependant upon the amount of moisture present on a target.  Naturally, consisting almost entirely of a liquid, larval Metroids freeze instantly.

The evolved versions, however, do not have such a glaring weakness.  The membrane that used to be its shell is now safely tucked away in the Metroid's abdomen.  Being such a large creature, the small ice projectiles can do naught but bounce off of them.  With thick skin (which would house little moisture; compare moisture of our skin to that of a reptile's) and a much larger surface area, the ice beam simply does not adversely affect these Metroids.

Naturally, this bears the question, "but what about the Alpha Metroids?  Surely, they are not yet evolved to a degree that would outright cancel the effects of the ice beam."  I believe the answer to this query is obvious: Return of Samus just so happens to be a video game.  As a result of this, Alpha metroids will not freeze because they are not programmed to; they will not succumb to reason.  Next time you encounter one, shout at the screen, "Alpha Metroid, logic dictates that you should be deterred by my ice beam," and note what happens next.  In the most likely case, you will now be staring at a Game Over screen, as it does not take as long for a Metroid to kill you as it does for the average person to utter the afforementioned phrase.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm off to make a cure for cancer while disproving the theory of relativity.  Good evening.

webrunner

2004-03-07 01:57:40 am

A larval 'regular' metroid is made mostly of jelly - jelly is very resistant against concussive/explosive attacks. The missles quite literally either bounce off, or the explosion's energy is dissipated in the ripples. Freezing the metroid causes it to solidify into a brittle state- the old rose-in-the-liquid-nitrogen. Think of a pillow, which isn't 'armored' but if you hit it with a bat it doesn't really take any damage, but if you were to freeze it first it would shatter.

Once it hatches, it starts becoming a more solid than gelatenous creature, and as a result, the weak armor cracks under the stress of a concussive blast. Eventually it gets stronger and stronger armor.

Light of Day

2004-03-07 11:10:26 pm

Quote from webrunner:

A larval 'regular' metroid is made mostly of jelly - jelly is very resistant against concussive/explosive attacks. The missles quite literally either bounce off, or the explosion's energy is dissipated in the ripples. Freezing the metroid causes it to solidify into a brittle state- the old rose-in-the-liquid-nitrogen. Think of a pillow, which isn't 'armored' but if you hit it with a bat it doesn't really take any damage, but if you were to freeze it first it would shatter.

Once it hatches, it starts becoming a more solid than gelatenous creature, and as a result, the weak armor cracks under the stress of a concussive blast. Eventually it gets stronger and stronger armor.

I believe that's the official explanation. And it fit perfectly until Fusion came along, making the metroid DNA-infused Samus and the Omega metroid weak to the ice beam and cold conditions.

The Last Metroid

2004-03-09 12:03:20 am

[/me ignores all other posts except first]

I'd give it a six.

Athena Asamiya

2004-03-12 07:40:31 am

I think the reason that the ice beam was the weak point of the big metroid at the end of Fusion and missles were in metroid 2 was basically that Fusion was trying to make the ice beam seem even more impressive than it ever used to be. Before Fusion, I would be thinking 'Wave Beam' but after Fusion 'Ice Beam' hehe. Well, for me, it worked..

I think the Metroid was probably the same sort of Metroid but SA-X just powered up the ice beam, and since Metroids are weak against ice, even though the ice beam in RoS wasn't good enough to have an effect, the powered up SA-X brand ice beam was just the thing. And normal fusion type missiles weren't quite the strongest weapon for poor Samus that they were in Metroid 2.

To me, that kind of thinking is simpler, that the weapons are different, than the Metroid is different.

webrunner

2004-03-14 12:11:37 am

The weapons that Samus got in Fusion seemed to be a combination of hobbled together 'hacks' sent by command and similar abilities received from absorbing the gooey caramel centres of Core X's. Similarly, the weapons on SR388 may be weaker as well - it did not seem to be as central a Chozo colony as Zebes' Big Apple Chozodia. However, the weapons SA-X had were as powerful as Zebes Originals. You didn't just get the Ice Beam, but you got the Real Plasma, the Real Wave Beam, the Real Charge Beam, etc. etc.

For a simpler alternative, keep in mind the beams in Metroid II sucked, and that Metroids are still biological creatures. Biological creatures have cells, and cells don't take kindly to freezing through expansion. Assuming, of course, you can get past the armor using the plasma beam which Samus can't use at the same time in Metroid 2 but can in Fusion.

Now, if you want something to explain, explain why Super Metroid's speed booster is the only one that hurts to Shine Spark.

Syl

2004-03-14 12:46:46 am

it has to do with that dash button, i know it does!

webrunner

2004-03-14 01:58:34 am

How about this, normally it's easy for Samus to run and spark, but the Space Pirate Mother Ship was powered by a gravity drive, and when it blew up it caused Zebes to be covered in a gravetic anomaly. This anomaly causes the gravity to be higher for an inch above the ground. The suit compensates by a) requiring more energy to run so you have to tell it to run b) putting extra energy into jumps so when it gets out of the field Samus jumps a lot higher (note: she seems to float in Super Metroid) and c) using more energy then nessisary for the Shine Spark. Lets say that the Shine Spark normally uses the suit's 100% energy output. To use 110% energy it uses some of it's stored integrity energy. Note the suit CAN convert energy types in other ways already - the Crystal Flash, for instance.

Of course, this is all a bunch of crap but it's fun to theorize.

Also, SR388 has repetitve rooms because of... spacial distortions! That's it! It's also heavily magnetic, so the Spider Ball works. Also, there's no Morph Ball powerup since the Chozo used them all already. Also, the ship Samus got was from a used ship place on the way to Tallon VI. Also, regarding the water going up and down on SR388, obviously the Metroids control the tide using.. um.. magic.. wands.. and.. you know what, nevermind.

How about this, normally it's easy for Samus to run and spark, but the Space Pirate Mother Ship was powered by a gravity drive, and when it blew up it caused Zebes to be covered in a gravetic anomaly.  This anomaly causes the gravity to be higher for an inch above the ground.  The suit compensates by a) requiring more energy to run so you have to tell it to run b) putting extra energy into jumps so when it gets out of the field Samus jumps a lot higher (note: she seems to float in Super Metroid) and c) using more energy then nessisary for the Shine Spark.  Lets say that the Shine Spark normally uses the suit's 100% energy output.  To use 110% energy it uses some of it's stored integrity energy.  Note the suit CAN convert energy types in other ways already - the Crystal Flash, for instance.

Of course, this is all a bunch of crap but it's fun to theorize.

Also, SR388 has repetitve rooms because of... spacial distortions!  That's it!  It's also heavily magnetic, so the Spider Ball works.  Also, there's no Morph Ball powerup since  the Chozo used them all already.  Also, the ship Samus got was from a used ship place on the way to Tallon VI.  Also, regarding the water going up and down on SR388, obviously the Metroids control the tide using.. um.. magic.. wands.. and.. you know what, nevermind.

Athena Asamiya

2004-03-14 01:37:55 pm

I know! I know! The speed booster was Poisoned! Yeah, Mother Brain expected it! So she Poisoned the speed booster!

DominicanZero

2004-03-14 04:06:26 pm

直死の魔眼使い

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-15 03:56:04 pm

Cook of the Sea

This game rocks.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-15 03:59:07 pm

Cook of the Sea

I always kind of thought that the earthquakes were caused by Queen Metroid getting mad that her children were getting killed, and throwing a fit. However, for my theory that the lava in Metroid II is actually Phazon, see the Prime and Queen thread in Multiple Metroid.

Sorry, I keep forgetting about the edit button. I seriously am working on that.

Hive Mecha

2004-03-15 06:01:58 pm

Edit button sabre >_> Edit button is your friend. The double posting is getting kinda old when you keep doing it.

But I actually like some of the music in Metroid II when it's not making my ears bleed.
I still have my original copy to this day.

KennyMan666

2004-03-18 04:37:29 pm

Viking

Precursor

I bought Metroid II for 75 swedish crowns (that would be about... um... 10 dollars). Actually, I think it beats Fusion - I really disliked how Fusion was made. I hated the Navigation Rooms from the beginning. I'm in the middle of my second RoS play, but I seem to be stuck. I just can't find that Metroid.

meta_ridley

2004-03-24 09:29:05 pm

Ive always been wondering which metroid is which... could someone post pictures of all the metroids and tell what they are?

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-03-25 04:04:39 am

Here's Syl's sig, which I'll use as an example:

In the middle we have a regular Metroid. It's first transformation is to a Beta Metroid (upper right corner). Next it turns into a Gamma Metroid (right side, bottom row), then a Zeta Metroid (left side, bottom row), and finally an Omega Metroid (upper left corner). It is presumed that, given enough time/resources/etc, an Omega Metroid will eventually turn into a Metroid Queen (not pictured).

KennyMan666

2004-03-25 05:21:31 am

Viking

Precursor

Umm, the Larva evolves into an Alpha. Not Beta.

RoboBlob

2004-03-25 03:15:50 pm

There's not even such thing as a beta metroid. Dark, you should probably kill yourself. :D

Dark_T_Zeratul

2004-03-25 03:38:13 pm

OK, Alpha. Close enough.

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-27 01:30:14 pm

Cook of the Sea

Alphas looked really wierd in my opinion. When we started getting in to the Zeta-Omega-Queen stuff, that was awesome.

RoboBlob

2004-03-27 02:26:40 pm

I always thought the regualar metroids were the coolest. How could something so awsome (invulnerable in its normal state) turn in to something so crappy? (dies from 5 missiles without even freezing and just tries to ram you)

SABERinBLUE

2004-03-27 03:32:35 pm

Cook of the Sea

Well, I think Larva are the coolest just in the "coolness" factor, but the you-don't-have-to-freeze-them thing is really a strength is you think about it. Fighting in Metroid is about staying alive long enough to kill the other guy first, so with Larva, the fact that they are vulnerable to ice is a huge weakness. It doesn't matter that they take five missiles after that or that they are invulnerable to missiles while not frozen. You see, Larva really only take one battle-hit to kill; when they get frozen by a single Ice Beam shot, they cannot attack or move. The battle is really over at that point, and the five missiles are really just a formality. With practice a person can easily go through all nine of them in II without trying. The invulnerability to Ice in the later forms means that they take 5, 10, 20, and 30 battle-hits to take down, and they remain dangerous during that time.

Yoshi348

2004-03-27 04:24:27 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Yeah, I've never played II, but regular Metroids are only dangerous if you get ganged up on by several... if you take your time and bait them out, you'll only get at most two Metroids after you in any of the other games, and since you said there were only 9 regulars in II, I don't see it being much of a difference. Two Metroids can be a bit of a pain, but you can usually keep them both frozen and even handle two while having to wait for Rinka powerups. Of course, if you're like me, and try to bomb a Metroid off me and fall down ANOTHER floor in the final ZM room and get raped by 8 Metroids at once... actually, I somehow managed to survive that. But I did have to kill them all with a Metroid on my head.