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YOSHISRUS
(user is banned)
2005-10-20 11:47:22 pm
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Cool Cool








This message posted by Forum Poster 30-days trial version, Please visit fp.icontool.com for more information. Originally size 2. Heh.
Thread title: 
LifeMega
2005-10-20 11:50:08 pm
Can you just put ads up here? And shouldn't this go in the Boardwalk?
Yoshi348
2005-10-20 11:52:12 pm
PAGE BREAKER
Ready and willing.
Man that kid's fast.

EDIT: I changed the username to prevented the sales factor.
nate
2005-10-21 11:38:10 am
will have grenola take a look at that software and see if we can block it. moved this back out for that purpose.
Andrew Mills
2005-10-21 11:50:29 am
Strategy Guide Writer
Quote from njahnke:
will have grenola take a look at that software and see if we can block it. moved this back out for that purpose.

You could always do what I do and make new forum accounts admin activated only. This stops such advert-bot accounts from getting through. I stopped it seems around 30 from posting already on my forum... (or you could use that user-picture type entry format for verifying new accounts).
Yoshi348
2005-10-21 01:38:24 pm
PAGE BREAKER
Ready and willing.
Wouldn't that be a pain in the ass?
SABERinBLUE
2005-10-21 02:08:53 pm
Cook of the Sea
OOOOOHHH!  I wanna buy, I wanna buy!  :D

Heh, I had a feeling there was something up with this user when I saw his name on the Last Registered thing.  Either a sock of Yoshi's or a spambot.  Woo!
Andrew Mills
2005-10-21 03:19:47 pm
Strategy Guide Writer
Quote from Yoshi348:
Wouldn't that be a pain in the ass?

What? Manually activating forum accounts? Nah. I don't mind as it means that due to the way new members e-mail me to say that they have read the rules already and would like their account activated, only the accounts for those who do that get activated. Which is only about 10-15 per week at the minute and it's a 10-second job to do in the admin panel and a quick reply back to say their account is activated.

At least only genuine active accounts will be activated. (It's also fantastic at preventing ban dodges as well). :D
DJGrenola
2005-10-24 09:44:58 pm
should be easy enough to prevent with a quick patch. problem I have right now is that while I want to know exactly what the software does, I don't want to install such a blatant piece of scumware on any sort of windows machine I own.

maybe I could convince it to work under wine.
SAL
2005-10-24 10:03:43 pm
Quote from Andrew Mills:
Quote from njahnke:
will have grenola take a look at that software and see if we can block it. moved this back out for that purpose.

You could always do what I do and make new forum accounts admin activated only. This stops such advert-bot accounts from getting through. I stopped it seems around 30 from posting already on my forum... (or you could use that user-picture type entry format for verifying new accounts).


Or you could put type in the Letters/Numbers in the box. I have that at my forum cause bots apperently can't fill in that part of the sign up.
LifeMega
2005-10-24 11:57:56 pm
Because they can't "see" the picture and don't know what to put.
SABERinBLUE
2005-10-25 01:01:32 am
Cook of the Sea
Part of me yearns for the day when images like that will no longer stop bots.  I know it would also suck, but man, wouldn't that rock too?  I mean, I'd hit that.
DJGrenola
2005-10-25 01:45:37 am
Quote from SABERinBLUE:
Part of me yearns for the day when images like that will no longer stop bots.  I know it would also suck, but man, wouldn't that rock too?  I mean, I'd hit that.


it can almost certainly be done already. I can think of two or three different ways to solve that problem, all of which involve heuristics - the most elegant way would probably be a neural network, and I arrogantly predict 99% accuracy. however, your average spam scumbag doesn't have the intelligence or the time to do that sort of thing.

just as long as some idiot doesn't develop one and then open source it.
SABERinBLUE
2005-10-25 01:47:33 am
Cook of the Sea
Quote from DJGrenola:
the most elegant way would probably be a neural network


I find those words to be sexy.
DJGrenola
2005-10-25 01:54:58 am
yeah I was thinking, hmm, I wouldn't mind having a go at that and seeing how far I get ... but I've got too many unfinished projects on my hard drive already.

edit: @ nate: to answer your question:

GET / HTTP/1.0
Accept: text/html, */*
User-Agent: Forum Poster - fp.icontool.com
Cookie:
Host: 127.0.0.1

the quick user-agent fix is therefore obvious, but i'd prefer something a touch more bulletproof. needless to say I'm not done yet.

edit 2: think I have it now (a patch that ought to prevent all but the cleverest bot attacks), but the downside is obviously that the patch has had no public testing, so applying it to a live forum could potentially break things. anyway, i'm going to bed.
nate
2005-10-25 08:10:00 am
would definitely be interested in testing it. today is a really thick day for me, but i should be around tomorrow for some bot slaughter.
DJGrenola
2005-10-26 09:48:24 pm
sorry about the wait - turns out my original effort didn't work. I thought the fact that I couldn't post spam to phpBB meant my patch was successful, but in fact it seems that once the software posts to a board, it has to be reconfigured before it will post again.

no matter.

The easiest approach would simply have been to check the user-agent to see if it wasn't Forum Poster, but this is a fairly weak line of defence, and provides no protection against (a) trivially hex-edited versions of the software (b) other software (c) other versions of the software (I expect to see a "spoof user-agent" option appearing in that software pretty soon).

An HTTP POST, such as is used to send the values from a create account form to phpBB, posts data from the browser to the server in the form NAME=VALUE, that is as key/value pairs. When a new account request is sent to the server, the browser is supposed to send a <FORM> containing a load of these key/value pairs. One of them is a timezone field to tell phpBB what timezone you're using - its key is "timezone". Because this field is a drop-down list, it is necessary to select a timezone - you can't just send nothing. For a legitimate account application, then, this field should be present and correct.

There were effectively three possibilities as concerns how this field is sent by the spam software when a new spam account is created.

a) software is really lazy, and doesn't even bother sending the timezone field in the FORM response. phpBB doesn't check explicitly for it, and will just default it to GMT if it isn't present. (NB: this is the sort of lazy programming which makes phpBB a piece of crap.)

b) spam software has a list of phpBB's FORM keys, including the name of the timezone field, hardcoded within it. This seemed the most likely possibility.

c) software is really clever and is able to parse the phpBB form and deduce what the names of the keys are from the HTML making up the FORM.

The patch I have written defends against bots employing (a) and (b) but not (c). It turns out that "forum poster" isn't even sophisticated enough to use method (b) and instead uses method (a). Nevertheless it seemed wise to protect against as much stuff as possible without making the patch really invasive.

The approach is in two parts. To protect against method (a) it is simply necessary to check whether the timezone field is actually present in the response. As I argued, for a legitimate application for an account it should always be present. Protecting against method (b) simply involved changing the keyname of the timezone field in two places - once when the HTML making up the FORM is sent to the browser, and then again when phpBB scans the FORM response for the appropriate field returned by the browser. In this case I simply changed "timezone" to "zimetone". This is no problem for phpBB as long as the fields match, but it will defeat any app that has this value hardcoded into it.

Time for the disclaimers.

1. Firstly I haven't tested every little phpBB function. It is possible although unlikely that there is some other use of the "timezone" field of which I am unaware and which will be broken by my name change. If phpBB was written properly it would use a single symbolic constant for this so it is only actually defined in one place in the whole piece of software - however the authors don't seem to have grasped this simple premise yet.

2. On my local phpBB installation, after creating an account, the confirmation page comes back blank. This seems to happen even without the patch, so I assume the patch is fine and some other sinister thing is at work. However, this needs to be tested.

3. The same code is used to update a profile as to create a new account. I have tested changing some account details for an existing user, and it seems to work. However, this also needs to be tested.

4. I believe that administrative user editing makes use of a different set of php scripts than normal user editing, and so admin functions should not be affected by the timezone -> zimetone change. Again, though, this ought to be tested.

5. The patch was created using GNU diff against a stock phpBB-2.0.17. Attempting to use the patch against a modified board may work but equally may fail. If it fails you can attempt to apply the patch manually or just let me know about it.

6. I have the aforementioned scumware installed under wine, so if you need the patch acidtesting and don't mind me creating one or more spam topics, let me know.

The patch is here:

http://www.ali1548.ukshells.co.uk/grenola_phpBB2-2.0.17_antibot_1.1.patch

Test it by cd'ing to the phpBB install directory and typing
Code:
cat /path/to/grenola_phpBB2-2.0.17_antibot_1.1.patch | patch -p1 --dry-run

Check that there are no errors (you should just get "patching file includes/usercp_register.php"), and then apply it for real using
Code:
cat /path/to/grenola_phpBB2-2.0.17_antibot_1.1.patch | patch -p1


and hope I didn't screw anything up.

EDIT: oh, I forgot to mention that you can unapply the patch if something turns out to be broken with

Code:
cat /path/to/grenola_phpBB2-2.0.17_antibot_1.1.patch | patch -p1 -R
nate
2005-10-27 01:38:19 pm
genius.

thousands of thanks and as many apologies for being increasingly awol this week ... i don't have any excuse but to say that things just keep getting crazier and crazier in my [real] life. the last time i told you when i would be available to do this, i contradicted myself, so i won't try to guess when i will be available again before the weekend. but whenever we do meet up, i will patch the board, and then we can quickly glance through things to make sure everything is all right. actually, i probably don't need you present to do it (i'd just remove it if there were a problem), but i think that if there is a problem, it would be a lot better for you to see it as it happens than for me to try to relate it to you later.

i think that once this is installed and working, it will be the end of automated spam on this forum for the foreseeable future. ladies and gentlemen, this is our djgrenola.
JaggerG
2005-10-27 03:12:10 pm
Shifty Leader
That M2k2 guy
Woot woot!

By the way, in my opinion, I'm just as real as your mother. We just exist in two entirely different realities. Your mother being the example of course because she's the most convenient one I can safely assume you know "in real life." Mostly just convenient because I can say "your mother" without getting in trouble. :P
nate
2005-10-27 05:13:07 pm
i thought along much the same lines when i was 13 and 14.
JaggerG
2005-10-27 10:39:03 pm
Shifty Leader
That M2k2 guy
there are so many things in that post you could have been refering to...

1) saying "your mother" without getting in trouble is fun
2) you felt you knew your mother
3) you felt you knew me  better when you didn't know me at all

As for the first one, yeah, but I don't care. It's still a fun phrase anyway. :P I assume you meant the second one, although it would be pretty deep and almost meaningful to have been talking about #3. :P

Other than that, it seems that's kind of a general belief people have growing up anyway.

Unless you're telling me I'm the equivalent of yourself when you were 13-14 and I'm just 4 years slower than you, but I'm hoping you didn't. >_>
DJGrenola
2005-10-28 04:58:56 am
two spams don't make a right.

nate, i'm afraid i seem to have picked up some stupid virus (the DNA kind, not the binary kind) so I'm going to be fairly incapacitated for a day or two and therefore probably unavailable to help for the time being.
Ekarderif
2005-10-28 09:45:37 am
If only there's a firewall and permissions hierarchy for DNA... then you'd be able to isolate the source and destroy it within minutes ;).
testuser
2005-10-28 11:50:41 am
patch applied. registration is working. if you have not yet sent grenola a check, now would be the time.
arkarian
2005-10-28 03:16:15 pm
red chamber dream
Awesome. My thanks to both of you.