Grapple Beam Route

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:50:10 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:49:23 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:48:50 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:41:41 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:38:40 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:30:24 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 01:45:30 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-04 08:54:36 pm

2013-07-04 08:54:15 pm

THIS THREAD IS FOR THE ROUTE WITH OBTAINING GRAPPLE BEAM, AKA NO GRAND ABYSS DASH NOR WALLCRAWL. The purpose of this thread is pretty much to keep track of my findings and testing and such.

The fastest grapple beam route is as follows:

1. Do ILS, go to Temple Assembly Site in-bounds, get early PB, wallcrawl to Temple Ground's Transport to Agon.
2. Do Sandigger SW, wallcrawl to Dark Samus 1 and get Dark Beam.
3. Get Light Beam in Dark Agon, go through sandcanyon and get Amber Translator (unless you want to do hive dash...)
4. Go to Mining Plaza, get OoB via Sandigger, wallcrawl to Agon's transport to Torvus.
5. Get out of bounds in Torvus's Transport to Agon via 3BSJ, wallcrawl to Torvus Temple, kill the pirates to get warped in-bounds, kill the grounded pirates and get Super Missiles.
6. Go to Torvus Temple Access, fall through the e-tank and go to Lower Torvus. Do underwater dashes and get Gravity Boost quickly.
7. Go to Dark Lower Torvus, get Torvus Key, get Main Power Bombs, get Grapple Beam, go to Dungeon and go to Light Lower Torvus, go to Torvus's Transport to Sanctuary
8. Go straight to Watch Station and get screw attack early (do Gyro Skip of course).
9. Go to Ing Hive, then do Quadraxis Skip, get Sanctuary Energy, return to light world in Aerial Training Site, return the energy in Sanctuary Energy Controller.
10. Go to Watch Station, Central Area Transport West, take elevator to Torvus.
11. Go through Great Bridge and go to Torvus's elevator to Temple Grounds, then go to Meeting Grounds and get Seeker Missiles
12. Go to Meeting Grounds, get to the elevator to Great Temple via 3BSJ+screw attack, wallcrawl past the moveable block, skip the splinter fight, and go get Violet Translator + Light Suit

Then standard sky temple key collection.

Notes:

-If you opt to do early violet, then after returning sanctuary energy, going to Great Temple via Agon is faster than via Torvus

-After getting Dark Visor, the fastest reliable way to go to Lower Torvus after getting the upper torvus sky temple key is just to go through Great Bridge and take the elevator. You can get out of bounds in Dark Torvus Temple and fall straight down to Dark Lower Torvus, but it's only marginally faster, assuming you optimize the wallcrawl very well. It's mainly a bit faster since you can skip activating the bomb slot below the portal in Catacombs.

Thread title:

THIS THREAD IS FOR THE ROUTE WITH OBTAINING GRAPPLE BEAM, AKA NO GRAND ABYSS DASH NOR WALLCRAWL. The purpose of this thread is pretty much to keep track of my findings and testing and such.

The fastest grapple beam route is as follows:

1. Do ILS, go to Temple Assembly Site in-bounds, get early PB, wallcrawl to Temple Ground's Transport to Agon.
2. Do Sandigger SW, wallcrawl to Dark Samus 1 and get Dark Beam.
3. Get Light Beam in Dark Agon, go through sandcanyon and get Amber Translator (unless you want to do hive dash...)
4. Go to Mining Plaza, get OoB via Sandigger, wallcrawl to Agon's transport to Torvus.
5. Get out of bounds in Torvus's Transport to Agon via 3BSJ, wallcrawl to Torvus Temple, kill the pirates to get warped in-bounds, kill the grounded pirates and get Super Missiles.
6. Go to Torvus Temple Access, fall through the e-tank and go to Lower Torvus. Do underwater dashes and get Gravity Boost quickly.
7. Go to Dark Lower Torvus, get Torvus Key, get Main Power Bombs, get Grapple Beam, go to Dungeon and go to Light Lower Torvus, go to Torvus's Transport to Sanctuary
8. Go straight to Watch Station and get screw attack early (do Gyro Skip of course).
9. Go to Ing Hive, then do Quadraxis Skip, get Sanctuary Energy, return to light world in Aerial Training Site, return the energy in Sanctuary Energy Controller.
10. Go to Watch Station, Central Area Transport West, take elevator to Torvus.
11. Go through Great Bridge and go to Torvus's elevator to Temple Grounds, then go to Meeting Grounds and get Seeker Missiles
12. Go to Meeting Grounds, get to the elevator to Great Temple via 3BSJ+screw attack, wallcrawl past the moveable block, skip the splinter fight, and go get Violet Translator + Light Suit

Then standard sky temple key collection.

Notes:

-If you opt to do early violet, then after returning sanctuary energy, going to Great Temple via Agon is faster than via Torvus

-After getting Dark Visor, the fastest reliable way to go to Lower Torvus after getting the upper torvus sky temple key is just to go through Great Bridge and take the elevator. You can get out of bounds in Dark Torvus Temple and fall straight down to Dark Lower Torvus, but it's only marginally faster, assuming you optimize the wallcrawl very well. It's mainly a bit faster since you can skip activating the bomb slot below the portal in Catacombs.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 11:30:31 am

kirbymastah: 2013-07-05 12:35:14 pm

2013-07-05 12:34:53 pm

So I was thinking about whether late violet translator is faster for the grapple beam route (and I'm confident it would be, but I'd like to have 100% confirmation on that). What would happen is this:

1. After early power bomb, wallcrawl straight to transport to Agon.
2. Get dark+light beam as normal.
3. After dark+light beam, use Sandigger to wallcrawl to the seeker door by agon's elevator to Torvus.
3. 3BSJ to wallcrawl into the torvus temple fight.
4. Do the entire torvus area as normal - supers, lower torvus, gravity suit, lower torvus key, grapple beam, go to sanctuary
5. Do sanctuary as normal, up until you return the sanctuary energy.
6. At Sanctuary Energy Controller, either wallcrawl to Watch Station via Sentinel's Path, or just go through sentinel's path if you have annihilator (but if you're doing late violet, you should really be doing quad skip anyways)
7. Go to Torvus; no need to go to Agon since you should have amber after getting light beam
8. Go get Light Suit and Seekers

Any ideas on improving this? I'll probably have some results by this weekend to see how much time this route ultimately saves/costs.

If you're going through Grand Windchamber (to avoid that horrible room transition in Great Temple), then it's likely that going straight to Great Temple, taking the transport to Meeting Grounds, get Seekers, then go back to Great Temple for Light Suit would be faster. I still want to test this versus getting Seekers before Light Suit, but eh...

Random timing stuff I found:

If you're not doing late violet, then immediately upon returning Sanctuary Energy, you can either go back to Temple Grounds via Agon or Torvus.

Via agon took roughly 3:47.
Via torvus WITHOUT wallcrawling via sentinel's path took roughly 4:33.

Wallcrawling by going OoB in Sanctuary energy Controller and going back in-bounds at sentinel's path would not save almost a minute if going to Torvus; plus, by taking the Torvus route, there's a chance of grapple pirates just after exiting Torvus Temple Access. In other words, nothing new here for early violet + grapple beam route.

So I was thinking about whether late violet translator is faster for the grapple beam route (and I'm confident it would be, but I'd like to have 100% confirmation on that). What would happen is this:

1. After early power bomb, wallcrawl straight to transport to Agon.
2. Get dark+light beam as normal.
3. After dark+light beam, use Sandigger to wallcrawl to the seeker door by agon's elevator to Torvus.
3. 3BSJ to wallcrawl into the torvus temple fight.
4. Do the entire torvus area as normal - supers, lower torvus, gravity suit, lower torvus key, grapple beam, go to sanctuary
5. Do sanctuary as normal, up until you return the sanctuary energy.
6. At Sanctuary Energy Controller, either wallcrawl to Watch Station via Sentinel's Path, or just go through sentinel's path if you have annihilator (but if you're doing late violet, you should really be doing quad skip anyways)
7. Go to Torvus; no need to go to Agon since you should have amber after getting light beam
8. Go get Light Suit and Seekers

Any ideas on improving this? I'll probably have some results by this weekend to see how much time this route ultimately saves/costs.

If you're going through Grand Windchamber (to avoid that horrible room transition in Great Temple), then it's likely that going straight to Great Temple, taking the transport to Meeting Grounds, get Seekers, then go back to Great Temple for Light Suit would be faster. I still want to test this versus getting Seekers before Light Suit, but eh...

Random timing stuff I found:

If you're not doing late violet, then immediately upon returning Sanctuary Energy, you can either go back to Temple Grounds via Agon or Torvus.

Via agon took roughly 3:47.
Via torvus WITHOUT wallcrawling via sentinel's path took roughly 4:33.

Wallcrawling by going OoB in Sanctuary energy Controller and going back in-bounds at sentinel's path would not save almost a minute if going to Torvus; plus, by taking the Torvus route, there's a chance of grapple pirates just after exiting Torvus Temple Access. In other words, nothing new here for early violet + grapple beam route.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 12:26:47 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 12:26:17 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 12:25:22 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 12:22:24 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-07 12:15:38 pm

2013-07-07 12:14:56 pm

Results:

The following route:

-Wallcrawl to Agon after Early Power Bomb
-Sandigger to Torvus after Light Suit
-After returning Sanctuary energy, go to Torvus without wallcrawling, then temple grounds via windchamber
-After obtaining light suit and violet, backtrack to meeting rounds, get seekers, then go back to great temple to take the temple warps for sky temple key cleanup

This Late Violet route saves 4 in-game seconds over Early Violet. My timing method was using my own skill level, and took into account my own mistakes i made as well. Thus, my timing method is NOT ROBUST AT ALL, meaning it can very well be a few seconds slower. But it can't save more than 10 seconds. Basically, with this route, it's not worth it.

Of course, if you decide to use the horrible, horrible room transition in great temple that miles uses, then late violet probably does save significant time. But I don't think I want to deal with that, and so this route doesn't save enough time to warrant using sandigger again, not to mention, an extra chance of grapple pirates in Great Bridge.

Now, I have a few ideas that can improve it though and I'm gonna get around testing this. I want to see if the following late violet route is significantly faster, since the detour to seekers is just so time consuming and annoying (it takes 2.5-3 minutes). These are after taking the elevator from lower to upper torvus, just after returning Sanctuary Energy.

1. Take the red door in Great Bridge, go to Portal Chamber, then Torvus Lagoon and lower the bridge here via the scan terminal. Go to Temple Grounds.
2. After getting Violet Translator and Light Suit, go to Meeting Grounds, get Seekers, then go to the elevator to Torvus instead of the temple light beam teleports.
3. In Torvus Lagoon, since the bridge is lowered, you can go to the light door to Ruined Alcove, then to Forgotten Bridge. Take the dark portal here to Dark Forgotten Bridge.
4. Do the 3BSJ to get over the gate and get to the dark temple key near Boost Guardian. Resume standard sky temple key cleanup.

The main problem is, I'm not sure if entering forgotten bridge from ruined alcove triggers a grenchler fight, and if it does, if it's possible to skip it by just going to the dark portal. Even if it does trigger it, you can probably kill them really quickly with power bombs and/or charged dark beam anyways.

The nice thing is, there is no need to ever get emerald translator, nor never a need to go to Torvus Temple. This also takes out one chance of grapple pirates in Torvus Grove (but it's made up for by a chance of grapple pirates in Great Bridge, so it evens out)

If you have any other ideas about how to deal with getting seeker missiles more smoothly and such, then ideas are appreciated! If there is anything wrong you can see with my idea, then post too! This is the best I can come up with though, and it's very promising; no annoying detours, and on paper, it seems to run smoothly.

Results:

The following route:

-Wallcrawl to Agon after Early Power Bomb
-Sandigger to Torvus after Light Suit
-After returning Sanctuary energy, go to Torvus without wallcrawling, then temple grounds via windchamber
-After obtaining light suit and violet, backtrack to meeting rounds, get seekers, then go back to great temple to take the temple warps for sky temple key cleanup

This Late Violet route saves 4 in-game seconds over Early Violet. My timing method was using my own skill level, and took into account my own mistakes i made as well. Thus, my timing method is NOT ROBUST AT ALL, meaning it can very well be a few seconds slower. But it can't save more than 10 seconds. Basically, with this route, it's not worth it.

Of course, if you decide to use the horrible, horrible room transition in great temple that miles uses, then late violet probably does save significant time. But I don't think I want to deal with that, and so this route doesn't save enough time to warrant using sandigger again, not to mention, an extra chance of grapple pirates in Great Bridge.

Now, I have a few ideas that can improve it though and I'm gonna get around testing this. I want to see if the following late violet route is significantly faster, since the detour to seekers is just so time consuming and annoying (it takes 2.5-3 minutes). These are after taking the elevator from lower to upper torvus, just after returning Sanctuary Energy.

1. Take the red door in Great Bridge, go to Portal Chamber, then Torvus Lagoon and lower the bridge here via the scan terminal. Go to Temple Grounds.
2. After getting Violet Translator and Light Suit, go to Meeting Grounds, get Seekers, then go to the elevator to Torvus instead of the temple light beam teleports.
3. In Torvus Lagoon, since the bridge is lowered, you can go to the light door to Ruined Alcove, then to Forgotten Bridge. Take the dark portal here to Dark Forgotten Bridge.
4. Do the 3BSJ to get over the gate and get to the dark temple key near Boost Guardian. Resume standard sky temple key cleanup.

The main problem is, I'm not sure if entering forgotten bridge from ruined alcove triggers a grenchler fight, and if it does, if it's possible to skip it by just going to the dark portal. Even if it does trigger it, you can probably kill them really quickly with power bombs and/or charged dark beam anyways.

The nice thing is, there is no need to ever get emerald translator, nor never a need to go to Torvus Temple. This also takes out one chance of grapple pirates in Torvus Grove (but it's made up for by a chance of grapple pirates in Great Bridge, so it evens out)

If you have any other ideas about how to deal with getting seeker missiles more smoothly and such, then ideas are appreciated! If there is anything wrong you can see with my idea, then post too! This is the best I can come up with though, and it's very promising; no annoying detours, and on paper, it seems to run smoothly.

kirbymastah

2013-07-15 06:26:34 pm

I tested the above. Without taking into account the trip from returning sanctuary energy to sanctuary's elevator to torvus, the routes broke roughly even, meaning late violet is slower with the idea i proposed.

TL;DR : LATE VIOLET TRANSLATOR IS SLOWER FOR GRAPPLE BEAM ROUTE, ASSUMING YOU ARE USING WINDCHAMBER TO RETURN TO GREAT TEMPLE.

MilesSMB

Edit history:

MilesSMB: 2013-07-15 08:59:07 pm

2013-07-15 06:50:06 pm

Quote from kirbymastah:

TL;DR : LATE VIOLET TRANSLATOR IS SLOWER FOR GRAPPLE BEAM ROUTE, ASSUMING YOU ARE USING WINDCHAMBER TO RETURN TO GREAT TEMPLE.

So don't.

>_>

Edit:

kirbymastah

2013-07-16 04:52:44 pm

Isn't that transition absolutely terrible though? <_< Entire point of going through windchamber is to avoid it (yeah it's slower, I know)

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-22 12:21:43 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-16 05:24:52 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-16 05:24:05 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-16 05:23:00 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-16 05:22:25 pm

2013-07-16 05:21:59 pm

There's a route that metroid177 proposed and it's very likely to be slower than the current route for miles (bad detour for amber translator and seekers). However, there's a portion of it that might turn out to be faster, at least for the grapple beam route, as amber translator and seeker missiles are already conveniently collected before going to Torvus+Sanctuary.

Original route: After returning Sanctuary Energy, go to Hall of Combat Mastery, go to the elevator to Agon, then go to elevator to Temple Grounds, then go to temple assembly site and to Great Temple to get Light Suit.

Route to test: After returning Sanctuary Energy, go to Watch Station to Central Area Transport West to Transit Station and enter the SW there. Then wallcrawl from Transit Station to Reactor Core to Reactor Access to Power Junction to Sanctuary Entrance to Temple Transport Access, and get back in-bounds here. Then take the elevator to Temple Grounds, and go to Great Temple via Sacred Path.

The pro is that you don't have that unnecessary trip through Agon, and you go through far fewer rooms. That missile tank in the elevator room will be nice too, as the current grapple route doesn't go through that. Of course, the bad part is, you're doing a long wallcrawl to get past the gates in sanctuary. I never tried it, so I have no clue how long it takes.

I honestly doubt this will be faster, but it's worth messing with. I'll test this out tonight before some any% attempts; it's nice that I have a save right before getting Sanctuary Energy so I can test this pretty conveniently.

[s]There's a route that metroid177 proposed and it's very likely to be slower than the current route for miles (bad detour for amber translator and seekers). However, there's a portion of it that might turn out to be faster, at least for the grapple beam route, as amber translator and seeker missiles are already conveniently collected before going to Torvus+Sanctuary.

Original route: After returning Sanctuary Energy, go to Hall of Combat Mastery, go to the elevator to Agon, then go to elevator to Temple Grounds, then go to temple assembly site and to Great Temple to get Light Suit.

Route to test: After returning Sanctuary Energy, go to Watch Station to Central Area Transport West to Transit Station and enter the SW there. Then wallcrawl from Transit Station to Reactor Core to Reactor Access to Power Junction to Sanctuary Entrance to Temple Transport Access, and get back in-bounds here. Then take the elevator to Temple Grounds, and go to Great Temple via Sacred Path.

The pro is that you don't have that unnecessary trip through Agon, and you go through far fewer rooms. That missile tank in the elevator room will be nice too, as the current grapple route doesn't go through that. Of course, the bad part is, you're doing a long wallcrawl to get past the gates in sanctuary. I never tried it, so I have no clue how long it takes.

I honestly doubt this will be faster, but it's worth messing with. I'll test this out tonight before some any% attempts; it's nice that I have a save right before getting Sanctuary Energy so I can test this pretty conveniently.[/s]

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-17 02:09:45 pm

2013-07-16 11:52:01 pm

So ignore the above post. The video miles posted is a consistent way to get that stupid transition in Great Temple. I re-timed the late violet route via Great Temple (instead of the slower WindChamber route) in conjunction with grapple beam, and it saves roughly 3 minutes over getting violet early. This is likely more time than it saves in miles's route, because the grapple beam route can immediately go back from sanctuary to torvus (whereas miles's route needs to go through sanctuary to agon to torvus).

kirbymastah

2013-07-19 11:20:00 pm

Aight, so I tested the route for getting the sky temple keys in Torvus, right after getting Dark Visor, for any%.

Current route: Get upper sky temple key, go through two yellow doors to Dark Forgotten Bridge, take the portal, go to Great Bridge, go to the elevator to lower torvus, go to the portal in catacombs, get the key down there.

Route #1: Get upper sky tepmle key, go to Dark Torvus Temple, get out of bounds via screw attack, transition to cache B, fall down to undertemple shaft, transition to it, get back in-bounds on the hall to grapple guardian's room, go through grapple guardians room to the dungeon.

Route #2: Get upper sky temple key, take the portal in Portal Chamber to light torvus, get out of bounds and wall crawl into Path of Roots. Get back in-bounds in Path of Roots, and go to Great Bridge and follow the current rouet.

Current Route: It took roughly 1:54 to get from the first sky temple key to entering the dark water in Dungeon via the current rouet.

For Route #1: It took roughly 0:36 to get from the first sky temple key to Dark Torvus Temple (aka just before going OoB). It took roughly 1:14 to get from transitioning to cache b, to the dark water in Dungeon, totalling to 1:50 already, not counting the time it takes to get out of bounds and reach the green door to cache B.

Route #1 is slower at a first glance. However, it also lets you skip unlocking the gate to the portal in catacombs after grapple guardian, which probably saves around 10-15 seconds. Ultimately, if fully optimized, the new route is probably faster by less than 10 seconds, which is not really worth it.

Route #2, I timed to be roughly 10 seconds slower, assuming you're doing a ceiling warp into Path of Roots (if you let it load around you, it's probably like 5 seconds slower or something). However, you're not going through Forgotten Bridge, meaning one less chance of grapple pirates appearing. I still would rather use the current route though.

TL;DR - STICK TO GOING THROUGH GREAT BRIDGE.

Aight, so I tested the route for getting the sky temple keys in Torvus, right after getting Dark Visor, for any%.

Current route: Get upper sky temple key, go through two yellow doors to Dark Forgotten Bridge, take the portal, go to Great Bridge, go to the elevator to lower torvus, go to the portal in catacombs, get the key down there.

Route #1: Get upper sky tepmle key, go to Dark Torvus Temple, get out of bounds via screw attack, transition to cache B, fall down to undertemple shaft, transition to it, get back in-bounds on the hall to grapple guardian's room, go through grapple guardians room to the dungeon.

Route #2: Get upper sky temple key, take the portal in Portal Chamber to light torvus, get out of bounds and wall crawl into Path of Roots. Get back in-bounds in Path of Roots, and go to Great Bridge and follow the current rouet.

Current Route: It took roughly 1:54 to get from the first sky temple key to entering the dark water in Dungeon via the current rouet.

For Route #1: It took roughly 0:36 to get from the first sky temple key to Dark Torvus Temple (aka just before going OoB). It took roughly 1:14 to get from transitioning to cache b, to the dark water in Dungeon, totalling to 1:50 already, not counting the time it takes to get out of bounds and reach the green door to cache B.

Route #1 is slower at a first glance. However, it also lets you skip unlocking the gate to the portal in catacombs after grapple guardian, which probably saves around 10-15 seconds. Ultimately, if fully optimized, the new route is probably faster by less than 10 seconds, which is not really worth it.

Route #2, I timed to be roughly 10 seconds slower, assuming you're doing a ceiling warp into Path of Roots (if you let it load around you, it's probably like 5 seconds slower or something). However, you're not going through Forgotten Bridge, meaning one less chance of grapple pirates appearing. I still would rather use the current route though.

TL;DR - STICK TO GOING THROUGH GREAT BRIDGE.

skriata

2014-08-16 01:57:55 am

sequence breaking ftw!

i can think of a route without wall crawling (cause i suck at it right now)

1)item lost skip
2) go to agon and get the translator and dark and light beams and any thing else
3) get seakers once the torvus area of temple grounds it unlocked
4) back track to agon and take the agon elevator to torvus
5) get supers ( and the emerald translator if you need it or you can skip it)
6) go to the hydro dynamo area and get the graple beam

of course im assuming that the dark suit is being skipped
might not be the fastest route but its more safe i guess

kirbymastah

2014-08-16 11:17:37 am

"without wall crawling"
1) item lost skip