Glitch Topic

2008-02-04 04:02:38 pm

Every Bit Counts

Quote from Gaius_4:

I'm pretty sure I got the blue suit but for only a fraction of a second when I was at the Giant/Super Metroid after drained the enemies life. I ran a short ways and did a mockball... Okay. It happened very fast, and I know that distinct blue color... Or am I wrong?

I'm asking... Is it possible? :-?

probably, through TASing.

Edit: Yay Pagebreak!!!

Kejardon

2008-02-04 07:31:11 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I checked through the ROM's code real fast at one point to see about any possible blue suits.
The *only* possible direct source for a *permanent* blue suit I found was Super Jumps. 'Direct source' meaning, outside of some drastic corruption such as the space/time beam. Every other source of blue suits only gives you the temporary blue suit that disappears as soon as you turn around or crouch or hit a wall or a million other things.

In other words, even if you actually did get a blue suit (which I strongly doubt - no reason comes to mind why the hatchling Metroid would give you a blue suit), it'd be an ordinary temporary blue suit, so there almost certainly wouldn't be any use to it.

Fano7

2008-02-04 08:16:35 pm

Every Bit Counts

oh, like an actual blue-suit. I thoght you ment by a short charge.

Fano7

2008-02-15 05:29:14 pm

Every Bit Counts

sorry for the double post, but I just found out that if you exit the Baby Metroids room with it on you and you have low enough health, you will go through the door, and come out acting you you took damage from a spike or enemy. when you land, you'll be in the kneeling position.

quant 4

2008-03-01 05:47:41 am

I found an anoying glich, when you hit mother brain with the muder beam and she does the final hyper beam before the metriod and while the metriod is on her the sound of the hyper beam becomes a lot louder than it usally is. I did it on a console. Question

Tonski

2008-03-02 04:58:44 am

Quote from Fano7:

sorry for the double post, but I just found out that if you exit the Baby Metroids room with it on you and you have low enough health, you will go through the door, and come out acting you you took damage from a spike or enemy. when you land, you'll be in the kneeling position.

Can you get out of the kneeling position?

Fano7

2008-03-02 01:02:54 pm

Every Bit Counts

no.

Gaius_4

2008-03-06 07:18:31 pm

Ha....ha. I know now why I thought I was getting the Blue Suit from the (Super) Metroid. When a Metroid... Any metroid attaches to you to drain your energy you have that blue glow/flashing effect going on.

*sheesh!* Rolling Eyes

Saturn

2008-03-30 07:17:25 am

Murder Beam obsoletion:

Although the stand up glitch itself is already known by some people, it's potential to save a huge amount of time in a speedrun was surprisingly never considered before. This demonstration shows how to get MB's final HP down to 0 before even starting the final phase of the fight, and that without any delays inbetween at all! That way you trigger MB's death animation immediately after the Metroid gets killed, which saves almost 14 sec in the end.

It's however doubtful whether this trick is worth to use in a console run, because the charged shots during the Metroid scene must be fired as fast as possible due to the very limited time in which you have to get MB's HP down, so it's only recommended for players with a high skill level who like to take risks.

More info in the video description.

Enjoy!

072

2008-03-30 01:15:04 pm

coral to complement blue

Whoa. And without losing any realtime seconds either...

If this was attempted on a console run, and the runner was not able to get, say, one or two of the shots in on time... wouldn't it still be faster than, or at the very least, the same as the murder beam way?

Cpadolf

2008-03-30 01:57:20 pm

Almost happy

It would probably be faster still. Though this is not possible in a any% run.

BlueGlass

2008-03-31 12:46:59 am

Awesome!

And it probably saves about a second of ingame time over murder beam as well.

Thinking about it a bit more, though, any% doesn't get enough etanks, and a 100% speedrun is going off of reserve tanks at this point (unless the metroid skip is doable on console), so I only really see this as being useful in a 100% TAS anyway.

moozooh

2008-03-31 02:24:32 am

Quote from BlueGlass:

Thinking about it a bit more, though, any% doesn't get enough etanks, and a 100% speedrun is going off of reserve tanks at this point (unless the metroid skip is doable on console), so I only really see this as being useful in a 100% TAS anyway.

It is skippable on console if you jump around it for a while (hero made a demonstration a while ago), but it's way too risky to try in a single-segment run, imo, and the gain is quite marginal. Quite worth it in segmented, though.

Saturn

2008-03-31 02:38:13 pm

072:
If you manage to only miss 3 shots in that time, then it would be same fast as Murder Beam. Everything above that would already be slower.

BlueGlass:
You seem to have missed the description of that Video, maybe I should just post it here as well to avoid further confusion:

Quote from Stand Up glitch's video description:

By having at least 7 Energy Tanks and de-equipping both suits, you can use a glitch during the Mother Brain fight that allows Samus to stand up even after MB's final Rainbow Beam attack, and therefore having full control of her during the scene where the big Metroid joins. This allows you to get MB's final HP down to 0 before even getting Hyper Beam, and thus triggering her death animation immediately after the Metroid gets killed.

Saving almost 14 seconds in the final phase of the fight, this trick even obsoletes the Murder Beam, though it's only executable in a 100% or similar runs that get high amount of Energy Tanks including the strongest beam combination (Plasma / Wave / Ice).

Considering the fact that you won't have the needed energy after getting drained by the Metroid, which I'm sure is unavoidable on console (moozooh has no idea how hard it is to make that skip without tool-assistance having only a very minimal margin of error during the entire skip - and even if you manage it, you will sure end up slower than just getting drained in the end), the Stand Up glitch is probably not worth to use at all in that case.

Although it's even ~3 seconds faster than Murder Beam if done like in the vid, it's somewhat doubtful you could be at least same fast on console with it. As said, all shots need to be fired as fast as possible, and you will sure lose a few frames between every shot if not having the tools, making a serious time loss after 40 of them that all have to hit MB during that phase.

072:
If you manage to only miss 3 shots in that time, then it would be same fast as Murder Beam. Everything above that would already be slower.

BlueGlass:
You seem to have missed the description of that Video, maybe I should just post it here as well to avoid further confusion:

[quote="Stand Up glitch's video description"]By having at least 7 Energy Tanks and de-equipping both suits, you can use a glitch during the Mother Brain fight that allows Samus to stand up even after MB's final Rainbow Beam attack, and therefore having full control of her during the scene where the big Metroid joins. This allows you to get MB's final HP down to 0 before even getting Hyper Beam, and thus triggering her death animation immediately after the Metroid gets killed.

Saving almost 14 seconds in the final phase of the fight, this trick even obsoletes the Murder Beam, though it's only executable in a 100% or similar runs that get high amount of Energy Tanks including the strongest beam combination (Plasma / Wave / Ice).[/quote]

Considering the fact that you won't have the needed energy after getting drained by the Metroid, which I'm sure is unavoidable on console (moozooh has no idea how hard it is to make that skip without tool-assistance having only a very minimal margin of error during the entire skip - and even if you manage it, you will sure end up slower than just getting drained in the end), the Stand Up glitch is probably not worth to use at all in that case.

Although it's even ~3 seconds faster than Murder Beam if done like in the vid, it's somewhat doubtful you could be at least same fast on console with it. As said, all shots need to be fired as fast as possible, and you will sure lose a few frames between every shot if not having the tools, making a serious time loss after 40 of them that all have to hit MB during that phase.

moozooh

2008-03-31 03:49:18 pm

Quote from Saturn:

moozooh has no idea how hard it is to make that skip without tool-assistance having only a very minimal margin of error during the entire skip - and even if you manage it, you will sure end up slower than just getting drained in the end

Except I do. In fact, I managed to pull it off (once).

namespoofer

2008-03-31 10:58:24 pm

Trained by Cpadolf. Mission: To Perfect.

Why wasn't I forced into a crouch poistion between the 2 crabs?

And I move as if I had the gravity suit while in the aim-down position.

Or has this been found? >.<

http://dehacked.2y.net/microstorage.php/info/1029631168/non-forced%20crouch%20glitch.smv

Kejardon

2008-04-03 03:05:14 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

It has something to do with 'landing' while aiming down onto oddly aligned clipping. You can actually get permanently stuck inside of respawning walls with that glitch. I've run into it a fair bit but I've never looked into it.

hero of the day

2008-04-08 02:03:14 am

hey Kejardon,

I don't know if you would know this, but ts there any chance you may be able to explain how the MB stand up glitch works? The exact requirements needed, or what causes it? It would be interesting to see if it can be done with a different amount of e-tanks and with the other suits still equipped.

Kejardon

Edit history:

Kejardon: 2008-04-09 12:41:16 am

2008-04-09 12:35:27 am

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

I looked at it years ago, I still mostly remember it sort of.
There's not really anything special to it, if I remember right. There's a check before Samus is hit by Mother Brain's attack if she will have enough energy after it to remain standing. This check assumes Samus has the Varia Suit equipped - i.e. Samus will take exactly 300 damage. It also ignores the reserve tanks. In pure game mechanics, it's a direct check if Samus currently has... 700 energy I think?
Then, after Samus is hit by the beam, Mother Brain checks if she has under 400(again, don't remember exact number) energy. If not, Mother Brain will fire another beam instead of going to the cutscene.

If I remember right, these branches are reflected by a change in one of Mother Brain's custom variables, which is used as her main AI pointer. I don't remember which one though, you'll have to look at EnemyMem.txt and watch the variables while Mother Brain is acting, or do a quick glance at the assembly at MB's default AI pointer from her DNA in SMILE. It'll be a variable that changes whenever Mother Brain goes from one part of her attack pattern to another - i.e. it'll stay constant while Mother Brain is blasting Samus, then change shortly afterwards.

Funny note... If Samus has 1100 energy and no Varia, the first shot will drain 600 leaving 500 energy. Mother Brain will then fire again, even though this will kill Samus without reserve tanks or Varia.

I looked at it years ago, I still mostly remember it sort of.
There's not really anything special to it, if I remember right. There's a check before Samus is hit by Mother Brain's attack if she will have enough energy after it to remain standing. This check assumes Samus has the Varia Suit equipped - i.e. Samus will take exactly 300 damage. It also ignores the reserve tanks. In pure game mechanics, it's a direct check if Samus currently has... 700 energy I think?
Then, after Samus is hit by the beam, Mother Brain checks if she has under 400(again, don't remember exact number) energy. If not, Mother Brain will fire another beam instead of going to the cutscene.

If I remember right, these branches are reflected by a change in one of Mother Brain's custom variables, which is used as her main AI pointer. I don't remember which one though, you'll have to look at EnemyMem.txt and watch the variables while Mother Brain is acting, or do a quick glance at the assembly at MB's default AI pointer from her DNA in SMILE. It'll be a variable that changes whenever Mother Brain goes from one part of her attack pattern to another - i.e. it'll stay constant while Mother Brain is blasting Samus, then change shortly afterwards.

Funny note... If Samus has 1100 energy and no Varia, the first shot will drain 600 leaving 500 energy. Mother Brain will then fire again, even though this will kill Samus without reserve tanks or Varia.

Cardweaver

2008-04-09 02:30:56 am

Quote from Kejardon:

Funny note... If Samus has 1100 energy and no Varia, the first shot will drain 600 leaving 500 energy. Mother Brain will then fire again, even though this will kill Samus without reserve tanks or Varia.

I've actually had this happen. It wasn't funny at first, more like shocking. I was doing a fun, no varia run to practice suitless norfair, and wham, MB actually killed me. :(

CrAzY

2008-04-09 05:13:08 am

Hahaha, funny think you mention that aswell. Same thing happened to me... when it happened I had no idea what was going on. laugh new

RT-55J

2008-04-09 01:35:34 pm

Armor Guardian

I so have to try that someday.

Saturn

Edit history:

Saturn: 2008-04-09 05:50:06 pm

2008-04-09 05:47:13 pm

Quote from hero of the day:

hey Kejardon,

I don't know if you would know this, but ts there any chance you may be able to explain how the MB stand up glitch works? The exact requirements needed, or what causes it? It would be interesting to see if it can be done with a different amount of e-tanks and with the other suits still equipped.

I thought I described the requirements for the stand up glitch thoroughly in the video description, but here again:

1. The "Stand Up" glitch is only possible if you de-equip the Varia Suit. There is no way to circumvent that.

2. Because of point 1, you already need at least 6 E-Tanks to survive the Rainbow Beam attack.

3. After the final Rainbow Beam attack, you need to have at least one full energy tank left in order to trigger the stand up glitch, so you need at least 7 Tanks in total for that. Not having the last E-Tank full after MB's attack won't allow you to stand up in any case.

4. You can as well do that glitch with Gravity Suit on, but with a full E-Tank that you are forced to have in order to stand up, MB will attack you to drain it down before starting the Metroid triggering Rainbow attack. De-equipping Gravity allows you to make MB start the Metroid triggering attack immediately even if you have up to 2 full Tanks at that point.

As you see, there is no way to do that glitch with less than 7 Tanks, as unfortunate as it may be for a any% run.

Hope this clears everything up now.

[quote="hero of the day"]
hey Kejardon,

I don't know if you would know this, but ts there any chance you may be able to explain how the MB stand up glitch works? The exact requirements needed, or what causes it? It would be interesting to see if it can be done with a different amount of e-tanks and with the other suits still equipped.
[/quote]
I thought I described the requirements for the stand up glitch thoroughly in the video description, but here again:

1. The "Stand Up" glitch is only possible if you de-equip the Varia Suit. There is no way to circumvent that.

2. Because of point 1, you already need at least 6 E-Tanks to survive the Rainbow Beam attack.

3. After the final Rainbow Beam attack, you need to have at least one full energy tank left in order to trigger the stand up glitch, so you need at least 7 Tanks in total for that. Not having the last E-Tank full after MB's attack won't allow you to stand up in any case.

4. You can as well do that glitch with Gravity Suit on, but with a full E-Tank that you are forced to have in order to stand up, MB will attack you to drain it down before starting the Metroid triggering Rainbow attack. De-equipping Gravity allows you to make MB start the Metroid triggering attack immediately even if you have up to 2 full Tanks at that point.

As you see, there is no way to do that glitch with less than 7 Tanks, as unfortunate as it may be for a any% run.

Hope this clears everything up now.

Cpadolf

2008-04-09 06:15:51 pm

Almost happy

I think this part of the run might render a decent screenshot for the publication, like having samus upper half body facing the wrong direction in midair in crouched position while the metroid is sucking on MB :-)

hero of the day

2008-04-09 10:24:27 pm

Saturn,

The reason I asked for a technical explanation is because you failed to mention why the varia cannot be equipped. The overall explanation on your youtube video was pretty discreet too. I am just looking for a way to do the trick with all suits equipped.