Fastest speedrun with 100% Items??

2004-03-11 01:36:56 am

... like me.

or maybe even you.

see you at the finish line.

2004-03-12 01:34:56 pm

Anyone could do a better run. With an emulator and about 10-12 hours of time, that is :P

Seriously though, I look forward to Nate or RS or any of the speed runners here beating the current record, since it's obviously doable. It's just very hard when you don't have save states or slower frame rates to 'optimize' the run and make it perfect like the majority of speed runs I've seen. That said, I really applaud not only Red Scarlet, but all of the speed runners here, because they do runs that take both dedication and skill; not seemingly perfect, emulator-enhanced runs that can be done by anyone, given enough time. And in turn, I applaud Nate and everyone else involved in setting the rules for making legit runs.

nate

2004-03-12 01:38:22 pm

thank you. :)

without people like you, what we do would be not only meaningless, it would be impossible as well.

Ultima4701

2004-03-12 04:14:09 pm

I resent the fact that you believe my runs are cheated. I mock the fact that you believe console cannot be cheated.

nate

2004-03-12 05:13:30 pm

Quote from Ultima4701:

I resent the fact that you believe my runs are cheated.

you were not mentioned by name, but yes, the official stance on emulation is that it constitutes automatic cheating (regardless of intention), because emulated versions of games are imperfect copies of (still extant!) standardized sources.

i ask myself: why would anyone play emulated versions of games when the standard copies are still freely available? sure, the benefits of emulation are numerous (much has been learned about our favorite games since we have been able to examine them more closely), but none of those benefits may be safely applied to the topic of conversation, speed running. in fact, to simultaneously call a emulation-based speed run 'legitimate' and know about certain of emulation's advantages (the aforementioned variability of playback speed, save states and so on) constitutes conscious cheating.

Quote from Ultima4701:

I mock the fact that you believe console cannot be cheated.

where did he say this, outside of implication by comparison? i don't disagree with the fact that console runs can be cheated, but i question the purpose of comparing runs that are always cheated to runs that have the capability to be cheated.

[quote="Ultima4701"]I resent the fact that you believe my runs are cheated.[/quote]
you were not mentioned by name, but yes, the official stance on emulation is that it constitutes automatic cheating (regardless of intention), because emulated versions of games are imperfect copies of (still extant!) standardized sources.

i ask myself: why would anyone play emulated versions of games when the standard copies are still freely available? sure, the benefits of emulation are numerous (much has been learned about our favorite games since we have been able to examine them more closely), but none of those benefits may be safely applied to the topic of conversation, speed running. in fact, to simultaneously call a emulation-based speed run 'legitimate' and know about certain of emulation's advantages (the aforementioned variability of playback speed, save states and so on) constitutes conscious cheating.

[quote="Ultima4701"]I mock the fact that you believe console cannot be cheated.[/quote]
where did he say this, outside of implication by comparison? i don't disagree with the fact that console runs can be cheated, but i question the purpose of comparing runs that are [i]always cheated[/i] to runs that [i]have the capability to be cheated[/i].

Red Scarlet

2004-03-12 05:33:52 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

As said elsewhere, the keyboard itself is nothing like a D-pad, so some things are made automatically easier to perform without worrying about the errors that can happen on a D-pad while using a keyboard.

An example would be doing quick wall jumps.

With a keyboard, since the directions are on separate keys, you can just press the 'left' and 'right' key and never have to worry about hitting up or down, thus doing quick walljumps with no problem at all, while on a D-pad you can hit up or down as well, and mess it up.

That's one example of an unfair advantage given to roms that a console cannot have, aside from other ones.

Ultima4701

2004-03-12 09:22:05 pm

It's incredibly humorous that you believe there is no way to have a legit emulated run.

I don't use the keyboard.

Red Scarlet

2004-03-12 09:26:36 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

Not sure who you're talking to.

Smokey

2004-03-12 11:16:17 pm

"It's just very hard when you don't have save states or slower frame rates to 'optimize' the run and make it perfect like the majority of speed runs I've seen. "

savestates cannot be recorded while a continuous movie, not at least in ZSNES. If the person failed at some point of the run and wanted to use savestates, the person will simply stop the movie in the point the person fails and then will have to record another movie apart to continue from the point it was stopped, and that's easily noted.

Slowdown is the real threat.

"As said elsewhere, the keyboard itself is nothing like a D-pad, so some things are made automatically easier to perform without worrying about the errors that can happen on a D-pad while using a keyboard."

"An example would be doing quick wall jumps."

"With a keyboard, since the directions are on separate keys, you can just press the 'left' and 'right' key and never have to worry about hitting up or down, thus doing quick walljumps with no problem at all, while on a D-pad you can hit up or down as well, and mess it up."

that is false. Yes, at a point you can control and perform better wall jumps on the emulator but not quicker than in the console. When you're wall jumping you can press right and left with the index and ring finger in the keyboard, while on the console you have only your thumb to press both the left and right. Even with that, I have missed wall jumps in my runs on the keyboard. At the console it takes more practice to go along with the same speed of wall jumps on the emulator and to not press 'up' or 'down'. It's only a matter of practice, not to worrying about.

but still, on the console you have better control of Samus doing sequential movements and you can calculate more your jumps, timing, etc. also the mockball can be done better on the console. Keyboard and D-pads both have their advantages and disadvantages, are totally different in another plane of view and both takes skills to master them at full. That's way I consider that emulator and console runs have to be treated separately.

that's why I had also the urge to finally record a 0:58/100% on a tape from the console, though I had numerous mistakes, more than in the emulator and I still got the record. Why I had more mistakes? I don't play on the console that often now-a-days, thus I was somewhat completely out of practice. This' just a run proving that the record can be done also on the console, not to take anyones' places.

[i]"It's just very hard when you don't have save states or slower frame rates to 'optimize' the run and make it perfect like the majority of speed runs I've seen. "[/i]

savestates cannot be recorded while a continuous movie, not at least in ZSNES. If the person failed at some point of the run and wanted to use savestates, the person will simply stop the movie in the point the person fails and then will have to record another movie apart to continue from the point it was stopped, and that's easily noted.

Slowdown is the real threat.

[i]"As said elsewhere, the keyboard itself is nothing like a D-pad, so some things are made automatically easier to perform without worrying about the errors that can happen on a D-pad while using a keyboard."[/i]

[i]"An example would be doing quick wall jumps."[/i]

[i]"With a keyboard, since the directions are on separate keys, you can just press the 'left' and 'right' key and never have to worry about hitting up or down, thus doing quick walljumps with no problem at all, while on a D-pad you can hit up or down as well, and mess it up."[/i]

that is false. Yes, at a point you can control and perform better wall jumps on the emulator but [i]not[/i] quicker than in the console. When you're wall jumping you can press right and left with the index and ring finger in the keyboard, while on the console you have only your thumb to press both the left and right. Even with that, I have missed wall jumps in my runs on the keyboard. At the console it takes [i]more[/i] practice to go along with the same speed of wall jumps on the emulator and to not press 'up' or 'down'. It's only a matter of practice, not to worrying about.

but still, on the console you have better control of Samus doing sequential movements and you can calculate more your jumps, timing, etc. also the mockball can be done better on the console. Keyboard and D-pads both have their advantages and disadvantages, are totally different in another plane of view and both takes skills to master them at full. That's way I consider that emulator and console runs have to be treated separately.

that's why I had also the urge to finally record a 0:58/100% on a tape from the console, though I had numerous mistakes, more than in the emulator and I still got the record. Why I had more mistakes? I don't play on the console that often now-a-days, thus I was somewhat completely out of practice. This' just a run proving that the record can be done also on the console, not to take anyones' places.

nate

2004-03-12 11:20:40 pm

where can we see your :58 from vhs? also, you're welcome to mail me anything you want posted on m2k2 from vhs. doesn't matter if the tape is ntsc or pal. just private message me for my address.

Red Scarlet

2004-03-12 11:28:20 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I never said it's quicker..I just said the element of cussing out the controller wouldn't be as high there.

And if you do have a :58 100% on a vcr tape..I don't honestly see why you don't want to have it converted to video.

But I don't think anyone said :59 or :58 is impossible on a console..I just know it wouldn't be done by me, as I'm utterly burnt out on Super Metroid, and probably always will be.

Ultima4701

2004-03-13 09:37:06 am

Smokey covered more than what I wanted to say, so I'll just leave this alone now.

PhazonMetroid

2004-03-14 08:57:03 am

I got this when I was like.. I dunno... 9, 10?

Time 2:58 with 100%

Then again, I played it alot. Untill I lost it last year :(.

nate

2004-03-14 02:38:45 pm

:(

whoever found it: :)

nitetrain8

2004-03-14 06:33:17 pm

XD

Goofyman

2004-03-22 01:26:50 am

Quote from Smokeyx:

[i]That's why I had also the urge to finally record a 0:58/100% on a tape from the console, though I had numerous mistakes, more than in the emulator and I still got the record. Why I had more mistakes? I don't play on the console that often now-a-days, thus I was somewhat completely out of practice. This' just a run proving that the record can be done also on the console, not to take anyones' places.

Yeah, but not everyone can fire up their SNES (which has been slammed with a bowling pin...yeah, pretty sweet, from like 10 ft--oh, sorry, off-topic) and beat it that quickly...again, my best is *group of people off-camera to the left chant* 1 hour and 26 minutes...

Have I made my point here?

I think not.

The D pad is lovely. I love the D pad. I have a controller for my PC, but the D pad allows me to do awesome wall jumps. Yeah, I mess up every once and a while, but it's pretty slick speeding up the M1 escape shaft in one try. Which is very difficult (I have only done it once on a cart, and that was a lucky shot)

[quote="Smokeyx"][i]That's why I had also the urge to finally record a 0:58/100% on a tape from the console, though I had numerous mistakes, more than in the emulator and I still got the record. Why I had more mistakes? I don't play on the console that often now-a-days, thus I was somewhat completely out of practice. This' just a run proving that the record can be done also on the console, not to take anyones' places.[/quote]

Yeah, but not everyone can fire up their SNES (which has been slammed with a bowling pin...yeah, pretty sweet, from like 10 ft--oh, sorry, off-topic) and beat it that quickly...again, my best is *group of people off-camera to the left chant* 1 hour and 26 minutes...

Have I made my point here?

I think not.

The D pad is lovely. I love the D pad. I have a controller for my PC, but the D pad allows me to do awesome wall jumps. Yeah, I mess up every once and a while, but it's pretty slick speeding up the M1 escape shaft in one try. Which is very difficult (I have only done it once on a cart, and that was a lucky shot)

Swordsman in Sable

2004-03-24 02:00:16 pm

Savestates may not be so usable on ZSNES for vids, but they are on other emulators, like famtasia. I was referring to speedruns in general, like the ones here: http://bisqwit.iki.fi/jutut/nesvideos/ . They openly admit to using both savestates and slowdown. Check out the gradius run for some laughs :P

My point was that sure, runs like that are entertaining, but they are, after all, not at all human and they get kinda old to me, knowing that the emulator had a minor role to everything-to-do-with the run, and that technically anyone can do it, with time, not skill, being the primary issue at hand.

I don't totally disregard/discredit emu-runs that are done without deliberate modification, but it is still *slightly* less credible than doing it on console, where there is 0 possible emulator influence, be it intentional or not.

Toozin

2004-03-24 04:23:19 pm

Not impossible

just highly unlikely

I don't know whether to delete that sig image or leave it so I can laugh uncontrolably at it everytime Sable posts.

Red Scarlet

2004-03-24 06:01:57 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

That racoon thing..there's a boss in Sexy Parodius just like that..one of his attacks are it meditates and lifts rocks up, if you shoot it in the nuts they crash down, and a big X is over his nuts.

That boss takes awhile to kill.

Yoshi348

2004-04-02 09:33:31 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

A minor point, but Nate, you need to change the message at the end of Scarlet's run page, now that you can no longer get it on SDA.

motherbrain_jr

2005-03-02 07:42:23 pm

OMG RED SCARLET DOUBLE POSTED!!!
AHHHHHHHH!!!!!! Shocked

Hey, Red Scarlet is a mod, right?
Are mods exempt from rules?

edit: this is on the end of the first page.

arkarian

2005-03-02 07:49:55 pm

red chamber dream

motherbrain_jr, do not mini-mod. This is the second time you have done it in the past hour. This is a second warning. Any more of this, and you will probably be put on probation.

Also, no, Red Scarlet is not a mod, and no, mods are not exempt from the rules.

RT-55J

2005-03-02 07:53:56 pm

Armor Guardian

Wow. MB Jr bumped 2 year-old topic within the space of an hour.

motherbrain_jr

2005-03-02 07:59:10 pm

oops

wasn't trying to minimod. sorry.
*shrinks into a corner and curls up into a small ball*

Red Scarlet

2005-03-02 09:33:16 pm

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

It was 5 days later, 5-10 days after I first came to this forum (aka a noob), and it was an announcement of my breaking Smokey's record. I think those factors made it ok.

And it was a fucking year ago. I don't understand why you're trying to get people in trouble for stuff that old, when you've been here for like a week. You aren't making friends with your choice of posts and words in them.

Although it was interesting to look back into this topic.