Emulator Research

Edit history:

MLSTRM: 2014-07-17 03:07:27 pm

MLSTRM: 2014-07-09 08:55:47 am

2014-07-07 09:10:50 pm

OK, so I've been meaning to do this for some time, and I've now finally started work on this game using emulator.

There's quite a few things that I'm planning to do, and I'll try to keep this list of stuff updated for people but we'll see if progress is actually made.

List of things I want to do:
-Find basic memory values for things like:
Health. - done?
In game timer
Enemy health locations - seems to vary per enemy, to be expected.
Phaaze hypermode bar - different to health, so needs some research.

-TASing / investigating some SWs

-Work on Early Elysia route practice

Things I want to test asap:
Health of seedling in phaaze - still going :L
Health of Omega Ridley (Flyby phase)

Things I want to test at sometime:
Early elysia route SWs
Some more damage values on some bosses (Esp. defence drone, gandryda, omega ridley, AU313)
Skyway access SW for 100% demo seq. skip.
Time out some strats

So yeah quite a few things, even though this isn't that much for now. My emulation isn't so great, I can hopefully get some better framerate out of my emulator but I'm not super hopeful.

Also if someone knows how to memory watch, not necessarily fix values but just watch a certain address, please tell me, that would be super helpful right now XD

(EDIT as of 17/7 up to date)

Thread title:

OK, so I've been meaning to do this for some time, and I've now finally started work on this game using emulator.

There's quite a few things that I'm planning to do, and I'll try to keep this list of stuff updated for people but we'll see if progress is actually made.

List of things I want to do:
-Find basic memory values for things like:
Health. - done?
In game timer
Enemy health locations - seems to vary per enemy, to be expected.
Phaaze hypermode bar - different to health, so needs some research.

-TASing / investigating some SWs

-Work on Early Elysia route practice

Things I want to test asap:
Health of seedling in phaaze - still going :L
Health of Omega Ridley (Flyby phase)

Things I want to test at sometime:
Early elysia route SWs
Some more damage values on some bosses (Esp. defence drone, gandryda, omega ridley, AU313)
Skyway access SW for 100% demo seq. skip.
Time out some strats

So yeah quite a few things, even though this isn't that much for now. My emulation isn't so great, I can hopefully get some better framerate out of my emulator but I'm not super hopeful.

Also if someone knows how to memory watch, not necessarily fix values but just watch a certain address, please tell me, that would be super helpful right now XD

(EDIT as of 17/7 up to date)

kirbymastah

2014-07-07 09:18:28 pm

Some things to time / figure out off the top of my head:

1. Early screw attack could be really helpful in speedruns. It IS possible to get, but then you're stuck after taking the portal back from icy to fiery bryyo, since the wall puzzle was never complete (plus another plasma door). If there's any way to get OoB in that spot, that would be great (I'm honestly doubtful, but let's hope it works out? ^_^).

2. Some method to get the temple of bryyo missile tank in 100%, before heading to elysia. I doubt this could happen too, but maybe some spot to activate infinite speed nearby? This would cut out a dumb detour and, in addition to the tower e-tank trick, would mean no detours at all to fiery bryyo in cleanup.

3. Testing the phaaze wallcrawl. I'm sure it's faster to wallcrawl if done optimally, but it's very easy to screw up. Some consistent set-ups/strats would be very helpful. The wallcrawl would ideally end right after the 5-eye bug and the phazon hopper room.

4. I'm not familiar with PH wallcrawling, but it could be worth testing getting nova beam first in PH? I remember miles saying it's possible to do so, but it would probably suck and be too slow to be worth trying.

Some things to time / figure out off the top of my head:

1. Early screw attack could be really helpful in speedruns. It IS possible to get, but then you're stuck after taking the portal back from icy to fiery bryyo, since the wall puzzle was never complete (plus another plasma door). If there's any way to get OoB in that spot, that would be great (I'm honestly doubtful, but let's hope it works out? ^_^).

2. Some method to get the temple of bryyo missile tank in 100%, before heading to elysia. I doubt this could happen too, but maybe some spot to activate infinite speed nearby? This would cut out a dumb detour and, in addition to the tower e-tank trick, would mean no detours at all to fiery bryyo in cleanup.

3. Testing the phaaze wallcrawl. I'm sure it's faster to wallcrawl if done optimally, but it's very easy to screw up. Some consistent set-ups/strats would be very helpful. The wallcrawl would ideally end right after the 5-eye bug and the phazon hopper room.

4. I'm not familiar with PH wallcrawling, but it could be worth testing getting nova beam first in PH? I remember miles saying it's possible to do so, but it would probably suck and be too slow to be worth trying.

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2014-07-08 01:40:52 pm

2014-07-08 01:37:17 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Getting out of the leviathan behind the hyper grapple blob would be very useful, since it would skip two items: hyper grapple and ship missiles.

EDIT: That being if the other blob in Phaaze can be skipped, either through the game not checking for it, or a secret world in Landing Site, which seems like a possibility with bombs.

kirbymastah

2014-07-08 05:10:56 pm

the hyper grapple blob in phaaze does check if you have hyper grapple, so you'll have to find some SW before it or a way to clip through it (the phaaze SW as of now is after it)

rekameohs

2014-07-08 07:19:20 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Landing Site seems like a definite possibility since moon jump can exit the area pretty easily and the addition of bombs there now the hyper ball is skipped allows for more possibilities. It certainly doesn't seem as much a shot in the dark as the PH blob does.

kirbymastah

2014-07-08 08:23:17 pm

Where would you exit? I'm guessing off of the ceiling somewhere? some form of boost aiming would probably help...

rekameohs

2014-07-08 09:27:14 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

It's been a loooong time since I looked, but I seem to remember screw attacking over a wall and hitting the secretized next room, which may be reachable with a well placed bsj, but it's been a while. Either way, I'm not really very motivated to look into it further since the PH one looks so improbable!

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2014-07-08 11:42:43 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-07-08 11:05:23 pm

2014-07-08 11:04:01 pm

So I went back to old posts to look back at the history of breaking this game. I found parax's old post, and here are some interesting things you might wanna look into:

Quote:

5. grapple swing - lessee... grapple swing is primarily only needed for grapple ziplines in Elysia, but with the MDB and LSA SWs, the vast majority of those aren't necessary. I think the only place we still need grapple swing is in spire docks, going to and from the aurora unit or to LSA. I can't think of anywhere else we need it. still seems unlikely for now though... but a SW near the aurora unit would theoretically skip this. (I could still be forgetting something, though)

I haven't thought about where else grapple swing would be necessary, but it's not needed anywhere after elysia.

Quote:

13. hyper missiles - not necessary for anything except triggering the pirate homeworld landing site. retarded but again, I don't see much of a way around it. if we can find a way to trigger the PH landing site appearing without picking this up, then it's skipped.

Maybe check where you can find a flag for PH's landing site appearing, and if there's any way to change that outside of hyper missiles? I seriously doubt it's possible but it's worth looking into...

Quote:

18. hyper grapple - this is only needed in two places: getting out after using the leviathan command code, and the hyper grapple blob on phaaze. this is probably the next most likely item to be skipped. we'd need a way to clip back out after using the leviathan code and a SW in the first room of Phaaze; I want to go try the former some more later since I was able to clip back through in security tube, and the latter is actually feasible, though I wasn't able to get it to work.

If there's also some way to trigger being able to get the pirate code w/o beating omega ridley, then ship missiles should also be skippable (along with the entire demolition squad sequence) which would be very very helpful for any%. It'll also be one less barrier to skipping nova beam.

Parax's post that I quoted is here - https://m2k2.taigaforum.com/post/early_elysia_26.html

EDIT: I'm sure you can find this in the game's memory... but would it be possible to find out damages for things like ice missiles, fully charged power/plasma/nova beam shots, and such? I thought about this when I realized I wanted to figure out how to optimally kill steamlord in 100% cleanup with x-ray visor LOL, and I'm not sure what the best thing to do is XD

So I went back to old posts to look back at the history of breaking this game. I found parax's old post, and here are some interesting things you might wanna look into:

[quote]5. grapple swing - lessee... grapple swing is primarily only needed for grapple ziplines in Elysia, but with the MDB and LSA SWs, the vast majority of those aren't necessary. I think the only place we still need grapple swing is in spire docks, going to and from the aurora unit or to LSA. I can't think of anywhere else we need it. still seems unlikely for now though... [b]but a SW near the aurora unit would theoretically skip this[/b]. (I could still be forgetting something, though)[/quote]

I haven't thought about where else grapple swing would be necessary, but it's not needed anywhere after elysia.

[quote]
13. hyper missiles - not necessary for anything except triggering the pirate homeworld landing site. retarded but again, I don't see much of a way around it. if we can find a way to trigger the PH landing site appearing without picking this up, then it's skipped.
[/quote]

Maybe check where  you can find a flag for PH's landing site appearing, and if there's any way to change that outside of hyper missiles? I seriously doubt it's possible but it's worth looking into...

[quote]18. hyper grapple - this is only needed in two places: getting out after using the leviathan command code, and the hyper grapple blob on phaaze. this is probably the next most likely item to be skipped. we'd need a way to clip back out after using the leviathan code and a SW in the first room of Phaaze; I want to go try the former some more later since I was able to clip back through in security tube, and the latter is actually feasible, though I wasn't able to get it to work.[/quote]

If there's also some way to trigger being able to get the pirate code w/o beating omega ridley, then ship missiles should also be skippable (along with the entire demolition squad sequence) which would be very very helpful for any%. It'll also be one less barrier to skipping nova beam.

Parax's post that I quoted is here - https://m2k2.taigaforum.com/post/early_elysia_26.html

EDIT: I'm sure you can find this in the game's memory... but would it be possible to find out damages for things like ice missiles, fully charged power/plasma/nova beam shots, and such? I thought about this when I realized I wanted to figure out how to optimally kill steamlord in 100% cleanup with x-ray visor LOL, and I'm not sure what the best thing to do is XD

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2014-07-09 12:05:55 am

rekameohs: 2014-07-09 12:05:18 am

rekameohs: 2014-07-09 12:04:24 am

2014-07-09 12:03:49 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Nova Beam will probably never be skippable because it's needed in the upper level of the Valhalla, and there's no way to get OOB up there. Thus, X-Ray will never be skippable either.

Ship missiles are an interesting one because they are only needed in one spot; the door to Omega Ridley - and Omega Ridley's only needed for the blobs as discussed. Now, there is a secret world in the room with the door to blow up, and I've done a rather complicated series of wallcrawls (the doors in the demolition sequence like to permanently lock and prevent loading of the previous room, even out of bounds, but if you trick the game by going back and forth between the rooms... for example: load Room A, enter it, go back to the previous room, dump Room A, and come back, it will act like normal instead of like it's the demolition sequence. If you do this for each of those doors that like to permanently lock, which I think were the last 3 or 4, they will not do that anymore). These crawls let you activate the landing platform thing and return to the other PH Command landing platform. Then, if you try to fly to the one with the ship missile gate, you get teleported like a mile outside the room out of bounds for some reason with no flying in cutscene. Plus, the door's still there.

If there were some way to avoid that, it would be great, but I don't have high hopes.

Nova Beam will probably never be skippable because it's needed in the upper level of the Valhalla, and there's no way to get OOB up there. Thus, X-Ray will never be skippable either.

Ship missiles are an interesting one because they are only needed in one spot; the door to Omega Ridley - and Omega Ridley's only needed for the blobs as discussed. Now, there is a secret world in the room with the door to blow up, and I've done a rather complicated series of wallcrawls (the doors in the demolition sequence like to permanently lock and prevent loading of the previous room, even out of bounds, but if you trick the game by going back and forth between the rooms... for example: load Room A, enter it, go back to the previous room, dump Room A, and come back, it will act like normal instead of like it's the demolition sequence. If you do this for each of those doors that like to permanently lock, which I think were the last 3 or 4, they will not do that anymore). These crawls let you activate the landing platform thing and return to the other PH Command landing platform. Then, if you try to fly to the one with the ship missile gate, you get teleported like a mile outside the room out of bounds for some reason with no flying in cutscene. Plus, the door's still there.

If there were some way to avoid that, it would be great, but I don't have high hopes.

MLSTRM

2014-07-09 08:55:19 am

Wow a lot of posts to respond to O_o

Ok so:
Early screw attack: tried SAing into a corner in the return section, but that's with the wall gone, so the collision might not be the same. I'm pretty bad at wallcrawling though, since its pretty different to MP2 which is my only real experience, so I'll try to wallcrawl over there using save states at some point to try it out some more.

Temple of Bryyo: Haven't found a place to get IS yet, but didn't look for particularly long, although if you can describe the kind of thing I'm looking for that would be much more helpful. This is pretty easy to test on console though I would guess.

Phaaze wallcrawl: I need to setup some savestates for phaaze admittedly. With extension Hyper grapple skip still depends on PH but I can mess around with the stuff in Phaaze at some point

Nova Beam First: I think I'll leave PH wallcrawling for now, since most of the SWs are pretty insanely hard lol.

Skipping grapple swing: Seems more viable for low% than anything else, I can't see it overall saving time in any% because wallcrawling those rooms would probably be a lot slower than just using the ziplines.

Skipping hyper missiles: This is pretty interesting. I can try and find out the flag but that could be pretty hard to test, because a lot of things probably change when you beat helios, but there's a chance!

Skipping Omega Ridley: Oh man, that would be amazing. Although the double of skipping hyper grapple and early code activation looks unlikely, I can investigate though. Knowing our luck, the code is tied to Hyper grapple and not ridley at all Rolling Eyes

Finding damage values: yeah this is something I want to do, especially for a couple of enemies (Seedling Mad

)

Wow a lot of posts to respond to O_o

Ok so:
Early screw attack: tried SAing into a corner in the return section, but that's with the wall gone, so the collision might not be the same. I'm pretty bad at wallcrawling though, since its pretty different to MP2 which is my only real experience, so I'll try to wallcrawl over there using save states at some point to try it out some more.

Temple of Bryyo: Haven't found a place to get IS yet, but didn't look for particularly long, although if you can describe the kind of thing I'm looking for that would be much more helpful. This is pretty easy to test on console though I would guess.

Phaaze wallcrawl: I need to setup some savestates for phaaze admittedly. With extension Hyper grapple skip still depends on PH but I can mess around with the stuff in Phaaze at some point

Nova Beam First: I think I'll leave PH wallcrawling for now, since most of the SWs are pretty insanely hard lol.

Skipping grapple swing: Seems more viable for low% than anything else, I can't see it overall saving time in any% because wallcrawling those rooms would probably be a lot slower than just using the ziplines.

Skipping hyper missiles: This is pretty interesting. I can try and find out the flag but that could be pretty hard to test, because a lot of things probably change when you beat helios, but there's a chance!

Skipping Omega Ridley: Oh man, that would be amazing. Although the double of skipping hyper grapple and early code activation looks unlikely, I can investigate though. Knowing our luck, the code is tied to Hyper grapple and not ridley at all :roll:

Finding damage values: yeah this is something I want to do, especially for a couple of enemies (Seedling :mad:)

rekameohs

2014-07-09 11:41:22 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from MLSTRM:

Skipping Omega Ridley: Oh man, that would be amazing. Although the double of skipping hyper grapple and early code activation looks unlikely, I can investigate though. Knowing our luck, the code is tied to Hyper grapple and not ridley at all. Rolling Eyes

There's nothing that Ridley activates, not in the story or anything. To get to Phaaze, you need to get the pirate code on the Valhalla and then go to the portal in Pirate Homeworld. The only barrier to the code is a nova beam door, and the only barrier to the portal is a hyper grapple blob. So you can get the code and activate the portal and everything just fine, you just get stuck behind the blob when you do so.

kirbymastah

2014-07-09 11:59:59 am

find a secret world after taking the train back from the portal!!!!!

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2014-07-09 12:24:27 pm

2014-07-09 12:23:33 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Yes, that or clipping back through are the only options. The closest I got was the get the camera to wig out when screw attacking into the blob at a certain angle, shown in a bad quality video here.

MLSTRM

Edit history:

MLSTRM: 2014-07-09 01:58:09 pm

2014-07-09 01:57:57 pm

Quote from rekameohs:

The only barrier to the code is a nova beam door, and the only barrier to the portal is a hyper grapple blob.

Oh yeah I derped, I thought there was a hyper grapple blob on the Valhalla for some reason. Also the video looks interesting O_o

Aruki

2014-07-17 02:47:03 pm

The #1 thing that needs research IMO is the infinite speed bug. It has HUGE potential to break a lot of things if a way to do it outside Lift Hub is found. The only lead on any other location I know of is a few people said they got the light show bug to happen when exiting the morph ball tunnel with the missile expansion in the main room of Norion, but I was never able to reproduce it.

MLSTRM

2014-07-17 03:05:57 pm

Quote from Paraxade:

The #1 thing that needs research IMO is the infinite speed bug. It has HUGE potential to break a lot of things if a way to do it outside Lift Hub is found. The only lead on any other location I know of is a few people said they got the light show bug to happen when exiting the morph ball tunnel with the missile expansion in the main room of Norion, but I was never able to reproduce it.

O dang, that's pretty cool. I'll take a look into this. I've been mainly working on trying to figure out a consistent way to get the super fast phaaze seedling strat on PAL, seems to not be as trivial as NTSC, but I have some progress.
Also following some discussion with Kirby I'm going to start looking into skyway access for possible 100% route change.

rekameohs

2014-07-17 06:06:49 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from Paraxade:

The #1 thing that needs research IMO is the infinite speed bug. It has HUGE potential to break a lot of things if a way to do it outside Lift Hub is found. The only lead on any other location I know of is a few people said they got the light show bug to happen when exiting the morph ball tunnel with the missile expansion in the main room of Norion, but I was never able to reproduce it.

Yeah, I definitely got the light show bug and slowed the game to about 10 FPS on my very first playthrough, but I have no video, can't reproduce it, and sure as hell can't remember what happened to activate it. :/

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2014-07-17 11:45:11 pm

kirbymastah: 2014-07-17 11:44:41 pm

2014-07-17 11:44:28 pm

Light Show activating randomly in a marathon is fun :^)

www.youtube.com/watch?v=BGje79meObE#t=249m30s

I don't remember what exactly I was pressing; I'm pretty sure I just accidentally boosted off the ledge then unmorphed.

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2014-07-18 12:10:12 am

2014-07-18 12:08:34 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Hah, that's definitely what I remember it looking like, but with the massive slowdown like I mentioned. And no terminal fall, so I had to reset. Kinda funny that it's just two rooms away (happened to me in Cargo Hub)

edit: Actually, looking at your video, looks like there was slowdown there, too.

kirbymastah

2014-07-18 01:06:11 am

Yeah there was pretty significant slowdown until after terminal fall was activated