Dumb speedrunning question

2008-10-20 01:56:45 pm

Eschews avatars

In Wrecked Ship Mainstreet, when you're heading up and can break through the ceiling in some places, how exactly do you do that? I can land standing through the ceiling easily enough, but when I jump I just hit the ceiling and am forced into a crouching position.

Thread title:

Kejardon

2008-10-20 02:32:49 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

You have to jump through the ceiling while crouched. You have to jump in, aim down, and press forward right as Samus's head is at the ceiling - if you do it right Samus will be forced into crouching, 2 pixels lower than normal crouching. From here you can simply jump straight through the ceiling.

072

2008-10-20 08:56:08 pm

coral to complement blue

I just spin-jump into the spot and press R before landing. That puts you right into the "forced crouch" position.

attachment:

WreckedShip.smv

Bolognab

2008-10-20 09:53:26 pm

You have to crouch? I've always just jumped in and pressed up instantaneously. It's worked pretty well for me.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2008-10-21 11:34:37 am

2008-10-21 11:24:18 am

spin jump onto this spot.

you gotta press up before you land so Samus will land automatically with the crouch position, and from there just press up again and the jump button.

RT-55J

2008-10-21 05:21:37 pm

Armor Guardian

How exactly does that glitch work?

...wait. Don't answer that. My brain has worked hard enough today.

Kejardon

2008-10-21 08:48:56 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Quote from RT-55J:

How exactly does that glitch work?
...wait. Don't answer that. My brain has worked hard enough today.

It's quite simple.
Jumping through ceilings is nothing more than a simple matter of jumping up and missing the ceiling.

Quietus

2008-10-22 05:13:12 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I think RT-55J was referring to the technicalities of the glitch, relating to the hit-box / sprite size et cetera.

I'm sure you'd know better than anybody, Kajardon. :)

Acheron

2008-10-22 12:04:11 pm

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

I would guess Kej recognized his inquiry for what it was but opted to make a joke instead. Keep in mind, he's not strictly obligated to only talk about the technical side of Super Metroid, even if he is the resident expert.

Kejardon

2008-10-22 12:23:46 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

Who said I was joking? :-s
[url="Super secret message explanation! If Samus is forced a few pixels low, the ceiling isn't detected above her when she jumps and so allows her to start jumping. Crouch jumps get a massive boost to starting position though, plus Samus's hitbox size change, plus a high initial velocity jumps her hitbox past the blocks before block collision is even called. According to block collision, Samus never tried to move into the solid block, she was on one side one frame and the other side the next frame - block collision is only run on the edge of Samus's hitbox."][/url]

Acheron

2008-10-22 12:25:33 pm

Acclaimed Threshold

Constant Sorrows

Wellllll, some guy on the forums guessed you were. We can totally argue whether guessing something is the same as saying it, if you want! I'll throw down.

JaggerG

2008-10-25 04:29:09 am

Shifty Leader

That M2k2 guy

That's actually a very appropriate usage of the HHGTG, and it just so happens to be very accurate. You're so close to the ceiling that if you jump in its direction, you never actually collide into the bottom of it, but jump up through it in one frame. It's an exact, albeit not very detailed, explanation of the process, that just happens to be a joke.

Kaiser

2009-01-26 01:39:13 pm

What?!

Quote from Smokey:

Question: why not shoot the lower blocks? They're just like the ones you just shot to enter there!

Or is it like an edited version?

Quietus

2009-01-26 01:47:57 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

It's about saving time.

In your example - the normal route - you'd shoot the rest of the blocks, and then jump through the hole on the left. In the example given, you jump through the floor (supposedly solid) right above Samus, saving time.

Kaiser

2009-02-12 02:42:43 pm

What?!

Oh! Guess 2 seconds do count to make a minute, then ^^

---Ain't the science of a speedrun just weird sometimes?--- laugh new

Quietus

2009-02-12 03:23:13 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Yes, it does often seem trivial, when you speak of saving 1-2 seconds per room, but when you apply that to 25-30 rooms, you're then saving another minute, and every minute helps, I guess. aiwebs_011

Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2009-02-13 12:10:17 pm

2009-02-13 11:35:02 am

This might be hi-jacking the topic in a way -- but IMO it is speed related.

I was playing SM, I killed crocomire (got the e-tank) and when I went to the room leading to the grapple beam (the first one you go into after defeating him)... I was running and shot towards the door, it opened, I jumped and went through the door. But when doing so I was trying to do a mockball, and did it a bit early. As the screen scrolled -I had the idea I would bounce... And probably make it to the platform where the red door is.

I did bounce but came just a bit short.

So... Is it possible to 'skip' as the ball all the way over to that platform?

The MAIN reason I ask is - I've never seen it done before in any speed runs, but I almost bet it could be.

I may try to do it again, unless someone else tries it and succeeds and posts a vid or smv.

Edit: Surprised

The closest I got was bouncing off the edge of the 3rd lowest 'step' and all the way over to the bottom tip of the other platform. The screen shot attached isn't where this happened, but it's close. Maybe it can't be done. Confused

This might be hi-jacking the topic in a way -- but IMO it is speed related.

I was playing SM, I killed crocomire (got the e-tank) and when I went to the room leading to the grapple beam (the first one you go into after defeating him)...  I was running and shot towards the door, it opened, I jumped and went through the door.  But when doing so I was trying to do a mockball, and did it a bit early.  As the screen scrolled -I had the idea I would bounce...  And probably make it to the platform where the red door is.

I [i]did[/i] bounce but came just a bit short.

So...  Is it possible to 'skip' as the ball all the way over to that platform?

The MAIN reason I ask is - I've never seen it done before in any speed runs, but I almost bet it could be.

I may try to do it again, unless someone else tries it and succeeds and posts a vid or smv.

Edit:  :eek: The closest I got was bouncing off the edge of the 3rd lowest 'step' and all the way over to the bottom tip of the other platform.  The screen shot attached isn't where this happened, but it's close.  Maybe it can't be done.  :???:

attachment:

Super Metroid (JU)005.png

horscht(i)

2009-02-13 01:56:26 pm

defrag in progress

In realtime, a shinespark from Crocomires room to this door is faster and has a very high success rate.

Cpadolf

2009-02-13 03:08:53 pm

Almost happy

Yes it is possible to do that, but it is not faster due to the fact that you have to back up a bit after crocos death animation (and while possible it is very hard to do in realtime).

attachment:

Exit Croco.smv

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

J-SNAKE

Edit history:

J-SNAKE: 2009-02-13 05:06:19 pm

2009-02-13 04:52:50 pm

thats me

Just to mention that there is nothing difficult in understanding some collision concerns.

It sounds like a joke when someone says " I shoot (or jumped doesnt matter) through an object but missed it". In reality it sounds ironical, but nothing of that in a game.

It is about using different methods to determine a collision. One often used, especially because it requieres less processing-power, is just to check whether an object is in a box (or certain area) or not. 1 example:

You want to shoot a small enemy with a high-speed weapon. It moves with 30 pixels per frame. Now using this simple and unappropriate collision-detection-principle cannot handle the following: the enemy has the size of 10 pixels and the shot approximately just 1. It is not difficult to see that when the shot is close to the enemy, it will "MISS" the enemy and will be behind it in the next frame. In reality it is absurd but for a game programmer selfevident, since in reality there are unlimited time-steps between a freely chosen time-intervall, but in a game they are digital, 60 per second is still not nearly unlimited.

Actually the results of programming the moving-system are bad in SM. If moving-system-code would be well designed, then no bug using would be possible, even not with TAS. For example I would only make the precondition to get shinespark-ready only dependent on the actual running velocity.

Just to mention that there is nothing difficult in understanding some collision concerns.

It sounds like a joke when someone says " I shoot (or jumped doesnt matter) through an object but missed it". In reality it sounds ironical, but nothing of that in a game.

It is about using different methods to determine a collision. One often used, especially because it requieres less processing-power, is just to check whether an object is in a box (or certain area) or not. 1 example:

You want to shoot a small enemy with a high-speed weapon. It moves with 30 pixels per frame. Now using this simple and unappropriate collision-detection-principle cannot handle the following: the enemy has the size of 10 pixels and the shot approximately just 1. It is not difficult to see that when the shot is close to the enemy, it will "MISS" the enemy and will be behind it in the next frame. In reality it is absurd but for a game programmer selfevident, since in reality there are unlimited time-steps between a freely chosen time-intervall, but in a game they are digital, 60 per second is still not nearly unlimited.

Actually the results of programming the moving-system are bad in SM. If moving-system-code would be well designed, then no bug using would be possible, even not with TAS. For example I would only make the precondition to get shinespark-ready only dependent on the actual running velocity.

tomatobob

2009-02-13 06:28:58 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

J-SNAKE, nobody cares what you would do if coding an old SNES game.

Stick your own topics.

Kejardon

Edit history:

Kejardon: 2009-02-13 08:00:36 pm

2009-02-13 07:56:17 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

~~just so you know, NOTHING you just said is relevant to this topic, J-snake.~~

::edit:: oh right this topic was hijacked with new questions.
just so you know, the stuff you're replying to is months old and already explained, J-snake

tomatobob

2009-02-13 08:20:55 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

Oh come on Kej, no one knows how this game works better than J-Snake, if he doesn't do the explaining it doesn't count.

J-SNAKE

(user is banned)

J-SNAKE

Edit history:

J-SNAKE: 2009-02-13 09:04:39 pm

2009-02-13 08:38:53 pm

thats me

Ask yourself why tas speed runs are looking so much different, it is not only about that you have more time to do something but about doing things which the game does not intend to be possible in the worst case situations.

bye

tomatobob

2009-02-13 08:52:04 pm

One shall stand, one shall ball.

You are my favorite.

Don't ever change.