Discussing the rules

2007-11-09 12:57:57 am

*sigh*

I'm sure I don't need to tell y'all my opinion on this. There's a reason I only join forums which have censors and/or equivalent policies in place.

:|

arkarian

2007-11-09 01:15:03 am

red chamber dream

Don't expect to see people's posts filled with unnecessarily coarse language, though.

Chanoire

2007-11-09 01:31:24 am

ALL coarse language is unnecessary.

nate

2007-11-09 02:58:58 am

is anything without purpose?

13M13

Edit history:

13M13: 2007-11-09 03:43:18 am

2007-11-09 03:38:05 am

l'appel du vide

Quote from Chanoire:

ALL coarse language is unnecessary.

you sound like my mother

Prime Hunter

2007-11-09 07:42:40 am

Personally, I've never seen the use for it either. I never use any myself, even when I'm speaking to someone.

ParanoidMetroid

2007-11-09 09:36:57 am

Quote from Chanoire:

ALL coarse language is unnecessary.

Technically, I have to disagree. The problem isn't the course language, it's that many people like to overuse it to the point where it no longer has the same effect. In the past, I've generally had a policy where I had not problem with cursing, provided it was part of the point I wanted to make. "Forbidden" words are as dangerous as banned books IMHO. It's a suppression of ideas.

On the other hand, I understand the purpose the censors once served here. There are a lot of minors that read these forums, and as a matter of policy I do not feel it is my place to educate minors on the... "subtle science and exact art..." that is cursing. I'm recalling a line from (of all things) Ernest Saves Christmas: "They haven't heard it from me."

Sadly, I've taken lately to abusing such words as much as the next person, especially at work. So much so in fact that I honestly think I've used a certain well-known four letter word more times in the past year than I have the previous three decades. And as much as I've been telling myself the last several months I'm going to change that, I expect I have as much luck with that as I did with quitting caffeine (which, given that I work third shift at a factory, was a very flat ZERO).

In the end, I will be happy if at the very least people refrain from using expletives out of context. So far it seems to be working, but time will tell.

yes, the censor removal pushed one of my many buttons. my apologies for the rant, I now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation

[quote="Chanoire"]
ALL coarse language is unnecessary.
[/quote]
Technically, I have to disagree.  The problem isn't the course language, it's that many people like to overuse it to the point where it no longer has the same effect.  In the past, I've generally had a policy where I had not problem with cursing, [i]provided[/i] it was part of the point I wanted to make.  "Forbidden" words are as dangerous as banned books IMHO.  It's a suppression of ideas.

[i]On the other hand,[/i] I understand the purpose the censors once served here.  There are a lot of minors that read these forums, and as a matter of policy I do not feel it is my place to educate minors on the... "subtle science and exact art..." that is cursing.  I'm recalling a line from (of all things) Ernest Saves Christmas: "They haven't heard it from me."

Sadly, I've taken lately to abusing such words as much as the next person, especially at work.  So much so in fact that I honestly think I've used a certain well-known four letter word more times in the past year than I have the previous three decades.  And as much as I've been telling myself the last several months I'm going to change that, I expect I have as much luck with that as I did with quitting caffeine (which, given that I work third shift at a factory, was a very flat [b]ZERO[/b]).

In the end, I will be happy if at the very least people refrain from using expletives out of context.  So far it seems to be working, but time will tell.

[size=8pt]yes, the censor removal pushed one of my many buttons.  my apologies for the rant, I now return you to your regularly scheduled conversation[/size]

SABERinBLUE

2007-11-09 09:55:02 am

Cook of the Sea

I don't mean to cheapen your well-typed and thoughtful post, but what exactly is wrong with cuss words? I mean, the best argument I've ever heard for it is that they "reference crude things" or something of that nature, and that's pretty damn weak for my money.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and why is overusing it to the point where it's lost its bite a bad thing?

ParanoidMetroid

2007-11-09 10:15:46 am

Quote from SABERinBLUE:

I don't mean to cheapen your well-typed and thoughtful post, but what exactly is wrong with cuss words? I mean, the best argument I've ever heard for it is that they "reference crude things" or something of that nature, and that's pretty damn weak for my money.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and why is overusing it to the point where it's lost its bite a bad thing?

I assume you're talking to me. Basically, I'm really big on meaning what I say. Expletives are supposed to have bite, and it cheapens their value when they lose that bite. If you are trying to say something crude, then fine. Yoshi348's initial post fell under what I consider "in context," meaning it was his intent to shock people with that news and that is what was accomplished. That sort of cussing I can respect. However, using such words because they are merely "appealing" and "attention getting" is an abuse in my opinion.

Let's take a classic example: "Damn". Literally, this means "being sent to hell for all eternity." This is a very strong word, classically speaking, yet somehow there are people who freak out when a 10 year old stubs his toe and says "Fuck," yet wouldn't have though twice if he/she has said "Damn" instead. The reason this is so is because somewhere, somewhen, "Damn" got overused. Now should I want a quick and explicit way of saying "Go to hell," I would be denied. Now my only choice is "Die [serious expletive deleted]", which doesn't quite say the same thing.

Note that it's not just expletives I'm talking about here, although if I say all of what's on my mind someone would probably moderate the [expletive deleted] out of me for being off topic. To keep it short, the English language is dying, and people don't seem to care about the impact it has on our ability to communicate with one another.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant for now. I doubt I will have anything more to say on the subject. Either people get it or they don't, and odds are if they don't by now I am the wrong person to try to explain it to them, assuming there is even a right person. Ultimately, they're your words, not mine. I just wish people paid more attention to what they were saying, that's all.

Oh, one more thing: another classic example. Naming your son Damien. Don't people realize words like these have meanings? ](*,)

Ok, now I'm done...

[quote="SABERinBLUE"]
I don't mean to cheapen your well-typed and thoughtful post, but what exactly is wrong with cuss words?  I mean, the best argument I've ever heard for it is that they "reference crude things" or something of that nature, and that's pretty damn weak for my money.

EDIT:  Oh yeah, and why is overusing it to the point where it's lost its bite a bad thing?  
[/quote]

I assume you're talking to me.  Basically, I'm really big on meaning what I say.  Expletives are supposed to have bite, and it cheapens their value when they lose that bite.  If you are trying to say something crude, then fine.  Yoshi348's initial post fell under what I consider "in context," meaning it was his intent to shock people with that news and that is what was accomplished.  That sort of cussing I can respect.  However, using such words because they are merely "appealing" and "attention getting" is an abuse in my opinion.

Let's take a classic example: "Damn".  Literally, this means "being sent to hell for all eternity."  This is a [i]very[/i] strong word, classically speaking, yet somehow there are people who freak out when a 10 year old stubs his toe and says "Fuck," yet wouldn't have though twice if he/she has said "Damn" instead.  The reason this is so is because somewhere, somewhen, "Damn" got overused.  Now should I want a quick and explicit way of saying "Go to hell," I would be denied.  Now my only choice is "Die [serious expletive deleted]", which doesn't quite say the same thing.

Note that it's not just expletives I'm talking about here, although if I say all of what's on my mind someone would probably moderate the [expletive deleted] out of me for being off topic.  To keep it short, the English language is dying, and people don't seem to care about the impact it has on our ability to communicate with one another.

Anyway, that's the end of my rant for now.  I doubt I will have anything more to say on the subject.  Either people get it or they don't, and odds are if they don't by now I am the wrong person to try to explain it to them, assuming there is even a right person.  Ultimately, they're your words, not mine.  I just wish people paid more attention to what they were saying, that's all.

Oh, one more thing: another classic example.  Naming your son Damien.  Don't people realize words like these have meanings?  ](*,)

[size=8pt]Ok, [i]now[/i] I'm done...[/size]

arkarian

2007-11-09 10:30:27 am

red chamber dream

Quote from Chanoire:

ALL coarse language is unnecessary.

Nah, it's useful for conveying strong emotion. Right, I get it, so are other words, but imo nothing beats a good "fuck".
I also don't mind it even in casual use, as, after all, it's just a word and shouldn't be taken as coarse. If you say "I'm tired as shit", that doesn't have quiet the same tone as "this class is bullshit!". The former doesn't have the "bite" referenced earlier, and that's a good thing. It makes the word acceptable for casual use imo, as long as the people around don't take offense to it. Note: I'm referring to real life only-- the internet, especially a forum filled high school- to college-aged users is a slightly different beast. There's a general acceptance of "coarse" language in places like this.

Quote from ParanoidMetroid:

There are a lot of minors that read these forums, and as a matter of policy I do not feel it is my place to educate minors on the... "subtle science and exact art..." that is cursing.

I don't quite get why you're drawing the line at minors-- it's not like cursing is illegal if you're a minor. Also, you can hear "fuck" in PG-13 movies (twice!), so obviously society accepts the fact that teenagers are going to be familiar with such language. This is a good thing imo; there's no real need to shelter someone who's at least in high school (and some even younger) from something as trivial as curse words. As long as they know the potential danger of using them in front of certain adults, let kids be kids.

Quote from ParanoidMetroid:

Oh, one more thing: another classic example. Naming your son Damien. Don't people realize words like these have meanings?

Maybe that's why they chose Damien. :P

[quote="Chanoire"]
ALL coarse language is unnecessary.
[/quote]

Nah, it's useful for conveying strong emotion. Right, I get it, so are other words, but imo nothing beats a good "fuck".
I also don't mind it even in casual use, as, after all, it's just a word and shouldn't be taken as coarse. If you say "I'm tired as shit", that doesn't have quiet the same tone as "this class is bullshit!". The former doesn't have the "bite" referenced earlier, and that's a good thing. It makes the word acceptable for casual use imo, as long as the people around don't take offense to it. Note: I'm referring to real life only-- the internet, especially a forum filled high school- to college-aged users is a slightly different beast. There's a general acceptance of "coarse" language in places like this.

[quote="ParanoidMetroid"]
There are a lot of minors that read these forums, and as a matter of policy I do not feel it is my place to educate minors on the... "subtle science and exact art..." that is cursing.[/quote]
I don't quite get why you're drawing the line at minors-- it's not like cursing is illegal if you're a minor. Also, you can hear "fuck" in PG-13 movies (twice!), so obviously society accepts the fact that teenagers are going to be familiar with such language. This is a good thing imo; there's no real need to shelter someone who's at least in high school (and some even younger) from something as trivial as curse words. As long as they know the potential danger of using them in front of certain adults, let kids be kids.

[quote="ParanoidMetroid"]
Oh, one more thing: another classic example.  Naming your son Damien.  Don't people realize words like these have meanings?[/quote]

Maybe that's [i]why[/i] they chose Damien. :P

nate

2007-11-09 12:11:06 pm

Quote from ParanoidMetroid:

Let's take a classic example: "Damn". Literally, this means "being sent to hell for all eternity." This is a very strong word, classically speaking, yet somehow there are people who freak out when a 10 year old stubs his toe and says "Fuck," yet wouldn't have though twice if he/she has said "Damn" instead. The reason this is so is because somewhere, somewhen, "Damn" got overused. Now should I want a quick and explicit way of saying "Go to hell," I would be denied. Now my only choice is "Die [serious expletive deleted]", which doesn't quite say the same thing.

so basically, damn has weakened, and fuck has either strengthened or maintained its strength. i would argue that the only meaning in these curse words is their strength. the only thing that distinguishes fuck from damn semantically is its strength. the etymology has absolutely no relevance during the cursing event (at least, during this type of event - someone feels strong pain). certainly the experiencer is not envisioning the hurter burning in hell for eternity in the split second the hurting event occurred. this is especially clear if the hurter is inanimate as in your example. actually i hear that stephen pinker released a book recently dealing with hurting event cursing and how he thinks it might be the oldest form of human language. if this is true then it makes more sense that it is distinct semantically - that is, the words used during these events sound like words we use that have meaning, but it's really just an efficiency thing.

the discussion becomes much more interesting when we consider how much less offensive "god damn you" is today than it was, say, a thousand years ago. regardless of our individual faiths, faith itself is less a part of most people's lives today than it has been historically, and yet, for the most part, talking about explicit sexual acts in polite company is still highly taboo. so fucking is worse than being damned, and i would argue that this is no coincidence - the semantic weakening was not intentional on any individual's part but, like 99.999% of things in human language, a reflection of the related biology and/or sociology.

Quote from ParanoidMetroid:

Oh, one more thing: another classic example. Naming your son Damien. Don't people realize words like these have meanings? ](*,)

Ok, now I'm done...

what i said above notwithstanding, i actually do care about name etymology when it comes to naming my children (or to laughing at other people for what they named theirs). of course, things like the phonological harmony with the other name(s) are more important, but still, i know that, at some point, some dork is going to look up the etymology of my daughter or son's name, and at that point it is inescapable that it will matter. to pretend otherwise is to put one's head in the sand.

[quote="ParanoidMetroid"]Let's take a classic example: "Damn".  Literally, this means "being sent to hell for all eternity."  This is a [i]very[/i] strong word, classically speaking, yet somehow there are people who freak out when a 10 year old stubs his toe and says "Fuck," yet wouldn't have though twice if he/she has said "Damn" instead.  The reason this is so is because somewhere, somewhen, "Damn" got overused.  Now should I want a quick and explicit way of saying "Go to hell," I would be denied.  Now my only choice is "Die [serious expletive deleted]", which doesn't quite say the same thing.[/quote]
so basically, [i]damn[/i] has weakened, and [i]fuck[/i] has either strengthened or maintained its strength. i would argue that the only meaning in these curse words [i]is[/i] their strength. the only thing that distinguishes [i]fuck[/i] from [i]damn[/i] semantically is its strength. the etymology has absolutely no relevance during the cursing event (at least, during this type of event - someone feels strong pain). certainly the experiencer is not envisioning the hurter burning in hell for eternity in the split second the hurting event occurred. this is especially clear if the hurter is inanimate as in your example. actually i hear that stephen pinker released a book recently dealing with hurting event cursing and how he thinks it might be the oldest form of human language. if this is true then it makes more sense that it is distinct semantically - that is, the words used during these events sound like words we use that have meaning, but it's really just an efficiency thing.

the discussion becomes much more interesting when we consider how much less offensive "god damn you" is today than it was, say, a thousand years ago. regardless of our individual faiths, faith itself is less a part of most people's lives today than it has been historically, and yet, for the most part, talking about explicit sexual acts in polite company is still highly taboo. so fucking is worse than being damned, and i would argue that this is no coincidence - the semantic weakening was not intentional on any individual's part but, like 99.999% of things in human language, a reflection of the related biology and/or sociology.

[quote="ParanoidMetroid"]Oh, one more thing: another classic example.  Naming your son Damien.  Don't people realize words like these have meanings?  ](*,)

[size=8pt]Ok, [i]now[/i] I'm done...[/size]
[/quote]
what i said above notwithstanding, i actually do care about name etymology when it comes to naming my children (or to laughing at other people for what they named theirs). of course, things like the phonological harmony with the other name(s) are more important, but still, i know that, at some point, some dork is going to look up the etymology of my daughter or son's name, and at that point it is inescapable that it will matter. to pretend otherwise is to put one's head in the sand.

arkarian

2007-11-09 12:58:38 pm

red chamber dream

Hahaha. nate. Having children. Haha.

nate

2007-11-09 01:37:42 pm

yeah, seems pretty unlikely at this point. oh well.

BioSpark

2007-11-09 01:40:07 pm

Hey, someone has to run the site when nate gets old.

nate

2007-11-09 01:47:43 pm

the problem is that there's no more guarantee they would do it than anyone else.

13M13

2007-11-09 05:09:51 pm

l'appel du vide

Quote:

Oh, one more thing: another classic example. Naming your son Damien. Don't people realize words like these have meanings?

http://www.behindthename.com/name/damien
http://www.behindthename.com/name/damian

?

ParanoidMetroid

2007-11-09 05:38:17 pm

Quote from Arkarian:

I don't quite get why you're drawing the line at minors-- it's not like cursing is illegal if you're a minor.

True, but still, the idea bothers me. Not really sure why: it's not like these forums are frequented by real young children.

Quote from nate:

i would argue that the only meaning in these curse words is their strength.

I would have to disagree. True, if we take just my example of a stubbed toe, then yes, strength is what counts, but that isn't the only reason society has expletives. Besides, I'm as likely to say something like "Holy pooper scoops" or "Gelfling" in such a situation as I would more commonly used expletives. Of course, I'm not sure that helps my point about word meaning: it's not like one can look up "Gelfling" in a thesaurus and read "a common swear word used when one stubs a toe"...

Quote from 13M13:

Quote:

Oh, one more thing: another classic example. Naming your son Damien. Don't people realize words like these have meanings?

http://www.behindthename.com/name/damien
http://www.behindthename.com/name/damian

?

Hmm... Learn something new every day. Cool.

[quote="Arkarian"]
I don't quite get why you're drawing the line at minors-- it's not like cursing is illegal if you're a minor.
[/quote]
True, but still, the idea bothers me.  Not really sure why: it's not like these forums are frequented by real young children.

[quote="nate"]
i would argue that the only meaning in these curse words [i]is[/i] their strength.
[/quote]
I would have to disagree.  True, if we take just my example of a stubbed toe, then yes, strength is what counts, but that isn't the only reason society has expletives.  Besides, I'm as likely to say something like "Holy pooper scoops" or "Gelfling" in such a situation as I would more commonly used expletives.  Of course, I'm not sure that helps my point about word meaning: it's not like one can look up "Gelfling" in a thesaurus and read "a common swear word used when one stubs a toe"...

[quote="13M13"]
[quote author=ParanoidMetroid]Oh, one more thing: another classic example.  Naming your son Damien.  Don't people realize words like these have meanings?[/quote]

http://www.behindthename.com/name/damien
http://www.behindthename.com/name/damian

?
[/quote]
Hmm... Learn something new every day.  Cool.

SABERinBLUE

2007-11-09 06:06:16 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from ParanoidMetroid:

"Holy pooper scoops"

REALLY.

ParanoidMetroid

2007-11-09 06:17:58 pm

Really. Also, it's not a phase I recommend saying around one's six year old niece. I used it once around mine, and it took her hours to quit laughing and quoting it.

Gaius_4

2007-11-09 07:12:13 pm

It's like the ol' saying goes... (Wheel of Fortune style grin new

-because I still have some standards.)

Pro_anity is a _r_tch for inarti__late mother___kers.

edit: for italics. laugh new

ING-X

2007-11-15 05:51:48 pm

yeah

I just posted a spoiler in my sig, and it said that I "don't have the proper permissions to post spoilers". Let me test this real quick:

test

Yep. It works. How come I can't post it in my sig?

nate

2007-11-15 07:25:36 pm

probably a glitch with the spoiler mod. it doesn't look like i can enable that permission unfortunately. :\

Red Scarlet

2007-11-22 12:47:16 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

We can have big avs again? Some guy has a 500kb one.

nate

2007-11-22 12:48:13 am

yeah, lame that it only resizes, doesn't cut down on size. who is it? can just delete it/warn them.

Gamma_Metroid

2008-04-29 05:49:23 pm

I've seen double posts in some places with nobody (no mods, anyway) saying that's against the rules. In The Rules it says that
[quote author=OFFICIAL FORUM RULES AND REGULATIONS (READ BEFORE POSTING)]
When a user posts twice in a row, without any posts in between, it is called Double Posting. Even if the posts have different content, it is generally not accepted to post twice in a row. There is an "Edit" button on every post, which the user is expected to use if they want to add more thoughts to the topic. [glow=yellow,2,300]There are a few exceptions to this, however, such as posting a large image in a second post. Mods and Admins will determine if a Double Post is acceptable and will usually say something to the user if it is not.[/glow] While Double Posting will not usually result in a consequence (except, perhaps, a deleted post), as it is just a Policy, a Warning may ensue if a user continues to Double Post.
[/quote]
, but I'm not exactly sure what is acceptable and what is not.