Community hack- A little bit of everyone!

Edit history:

fizzer|me-is-liam: 2008-06-20 05:25:00 pm

2008-05-07 05:33:23 pm

YAY TEXT

Hey, i just had this really cool idea, based on people doing group hacks and the like, theres no garauntee the final product will be any good, but it should be pretty fun :P

Basically, the idea is a hack that anyone and everyone can contribute to, with as much or as little as they like, using theyre own tastes, ideas and styles. I was going to make my own contribution before posting the thread, but simply dont have time, so i may do so a little later on.

At the moment i think the best way to work it would be that each person posts a seperate patch involving only their own changes, with a list of everything edited, so that nobody will then edit the same thing later and make a mess, also if you have an idea involving certain rooms or aspects of the game, feel free to reserve so nobody else beats you to it. Once we have a practically full hack, the patches can be combined, and we can see what load of rubbish we make :D

Edit: to avoid complete chaos, lets all stick to unheadered patches

Items bagged so far:

Gravity Suit= Cardweaver
Screw Attack=Fizzer
Plasma Beam= Fizzer
Space jump= Fizzer
Speed Boost= Ducnerd
First Power Bomb=Ducknerd (MAKE SURE ALL OTHERS REQUIRE PB TO OBTAIN)
Spazer = Green Kirby
Spring Ball= Lawrence Reyome
X ray scope= Devondev
First Super Missile= squishy_ichigo (MAKE SURE ALL OTHERS REQUIRE PB TO OBTAIN)
Ice Beam= Jackal_Boy
Charge Beam= Devondev
4 Reserve Tanks (to be modified)=Fizzer

Also people, make sure to state anything you wish to change aswell as level design, for example enemy HP.

All minor items (missile expansions, E tanks ect.) are better off staying in the area they are in, to avoid % confusion.

The attached map shows the areas that are definetly taken.
Red= Me
Green= Green Kirby
Yellow= DuckNerd
Blue= CardWeaver
Orange= Lawrence Reyome
Purple=Devondev
Grey= squishy_ichigo
Brown= Jackal_boy

Still some left for anyone who feels like contributing.

Thread title:

Hey, i just had this really cool idea, based on people doing group hacks and the like, theres no garauntee the final product will be any good, but it should be pretty fun  :P

Basically, the idea is a hack that anyone and everyone can contribute to, with as much or as little as they like, using theyre own tastes, ideas and styles. I was going to make my own contribution before posting the thread, but simply dont have time, so i may do so a little later on.

At the moment i think the best way to work it would be that each person posts a seperate patch involving only their own changes, with a list of everything edited, so that nobody will then edit the same thing later and make a mess, also if you have an idea involving certain rooms or aspects of the game, feel free to reserve so nobody else beats you to it. Once we have a practically full hack, the patches can be combined, and we can see what load of rubbish we make :D

Edit: to avoid complete chaos, lets all stick to unheadered patches

Items bagged so far:

Gravity Suit= Cardweaver
Screw Attack=Fizzer
Plasma Beam= Fizzer
Space jump= Fizzer
Speed Boost= Ducnerd
First Power Bomb=Ducknerd (MAKE SURE ALL OTHERS REQUIRE PB TO OBTAIN)
Spazer = Green Kirby
Spring Ball= Lawrence Reyome
X ray scope= Devondev
First Super Missile= squishy_ichigo (MAKE SURE ALL OTHERS REQUIRE PB TO OBTAIN)
Ice Beam= Jackal_Boy
Charge Beam= Devondev
4 Reserve Tanks (to be modified)=Fizzer

Also people, make sure to state anything you wish to change aswell as level design, for example enemy HP.

All minor items (missile expansions, E tanks ect.) are better off staying in the area they are in, to avoid % confusion.

The attached map shows the areas that are definetly taken.
Red= Me
Green= Green Kirby
Yellow= DuckNerd
Blue= CardWeaver
Orange= Lawrence Reyome
Purple=Devondev
Grey= squishy_ichigo
Brown= Jackal_boy

Still some left for anyone who feels like contributing.

attachment:

Super_Metroid_Map.jpg

Crys

2008-05-07 05:54:50 pm

Green-Kirby, ROAR!

Fizzer is in it. [X]
I can be in it. [X]
I can add fun stuffzzz [X]

I'm in! :3

I will do tourian. And I will stick to the numbers and same rooms tourian have now. (Easiest!)
So.. um.. Tell me when I should do this.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-05-07 06:16:23 pm

YAY TEXT

Whenever you like and whenever its done, im hoping for this to be a very layed back "project" (if it can even be called that, hence the quotes).
It'l be good to have some of your stuff since you have a very difinitive style, and thats probably going to be the best thing about it, a large variety of level design styles. I look forward to seeing what you'll come up with :D

Hitaka

Edit history:

Hitaka: 2008-05-07 06:32:43 pm

2008-05-07 06:25:05 pm

Phoenix

You'll need some coordination between participants so that things like having multiples of key items or bosses don't happen, and so that there's a sequence to go through so nothing is unobtainable. For example, you can't have Hacker A put speed blocks somewhere that leads to the area done by Hacker B, who put the Speed Booster there, and there's no way to get it.

I suggest having everyone sign up, then put together a general map with item locations, bosses, and progression, then decide who will do which part.

Milkyway64

2008-05-07 06:32:47 pm

I won't be participating, but this'll be fun to play.

*lurks thread*

fizzer|me-is-liam

Edit history:

fizzer|me-is-liam: 2008-05-07 06:41:11 pm

2008-05-07 06:36:30 pm

YAY TEXT

Hmmm yeah i see what you mean, but that makes it a group project with commitment, which isnt really the idea. I was going to have people post everything they changed in their patch so that others knew what they cant use and what data they cant change, but i guess the game could still turn out impossible that way. For me id say there are two options:
a) make this a very non linear hack, so that major items arent neccessary for completion.
b) have the game beta tested and tweaked minimalistically to provide a possible route

PS: Green Kirby since your doing Tourian, would you be for or against the inclusion of my Deathtroid patch? If you'd like to include it, do you have a copy?

Hitaka

2008-05-07 07:19:58 pm

Phoenix

I volunteer for beta testing then.

playerman1230

2008-05-07 07:35:45 pm

Hated by all

I want to be a beta tester. I have to get a controller, because I can't wall jump with my crap keyboard.

And maybe you can base a few map templates off of Golden Dawn and Redesign.

ducknerd

2008-05-07 07:49:28 pm

Eschews avatars

Oh look, all the lurkers are coming out. C'mon guys, go ahead and join.

I'd like all the Maridia rooms from the Noob Tube to Botwoon inclusive, not including the area to the east of the Map Station, and also blue Brinstar. For items, could I have speed booster and power bombs? Rough plan: from the elevator down to a dry maridia, there is a series of small 'challenge' rooms leading to booster, with these rooms being rather more difficult (and boost-requiring) to exit. Speed boost opens up an exploration segment which contains Botwoon, which you fight for power bombs. This opens up the path from the noob tube (probably near the elevator) to wet maridia and the next segment, flooding the nearby multi-state rooms to block exit. That's pretty linear, I know, but maybe it can be relatively early on?

Also, if we want to make a linear hack, once we get enough people it probably wouldn't be too hard to tweak all our plans to fit a progression of items.

Also, as this'll be a gradual and collaborative effort, idk if we'll really need beta testers. I get the feeling that this hack will just kinda grow and grow without any real ending point. I think that all the players will be beta testers, really. That said, why not take a small section of the map yourselves?

Oh look, all the lurkers are coming out. C'mon guys, go ahead and join.

I'd like all the Maridia rooms from the Noob Tube to Botwoon inclusive, not including the area to the east of the Map Station, and also blue Brinstar. For items, could I have speed booster and power bombs? Rough plan: from the elevator down to a dry maridia, there is a series of small 'challenge' rooms leading to booster, with these rooms being rather more difficult (and boost-requiring) to exit. Speed boost opens up an exploration segment which contains Botwoon, which you fight for power bombs. This opens up the path from the noob tube (probably near the elevator) to wet maridia and the next segment, flooding the nearby multi-state rooms to block exit. That's pretty linear, I know, but maybe it can be relatively early on?

Also, if we want to make a linear hack, once we get enough people it probably wouldn't be too hard to tweak all our plans to fit a progression of items.

Also, as this'll be a gradual and collaborative effort, idk if we'll really need beta testers. I get the feeling that this hack will just kinda grow and grow without any real ending point. I think that all the players will be beta testers, really. That said, why not take a small section of the map yourselves?

Black Telomeres

2008-05-07 07:50:07 pm

Here's a technique I think would be useful for this:

Copy paste the list of room numbers from SMILE's mdb.txt file and have each person claim an allotment of rooms in this thread and update the list. This will also take care of pesky problems like who gets to use different bosses' rooms. Of course if you want to go really simple then you could have 1 person do one area and agree on no moving rooms between areas.

Also, for something like this, it'd probably be easier to have areas mostly connected using just elevators rather than direct door transitions although if you can coordinate it with another person it'd be fine.

People could also collaborate on an item order just by updating it in the thread but nonlinear, as Fizzer said, would probably be the way to go. But you'd still probably want to have a few general hardcaps (super missile doors, PB doors, SB for SB blocks, and Gravity suit for rooms that require normalgravity jumping in water). Perhaps the item order could be as simple as

Morphball
Missiles
Bombs
SMs
SB
PBs
Gravity

and just let other people place the other items as they see fit. Still, I'd think that you'd need to know who was going to use what item, so another person doesn't end up using it in their area as well.

And then of course, the coordination on the map is still basically absolutely necessary.

Here's a technique I think would be useful for this:

Copy paste the list of room numbers from SMILE's mdb.txt file and have each person claim an allotment of rooms in this thread and update the list. This will also take care of pesky problems like who gets to use different bosses' rooms. Of course if you want to go really simple then you could have 1 person do one area and agree on no moving rooms between areas.

Also, for something like this, it'd probably be easier to have areas mostly connected using just elevators rather than direct door transitions although if you can coordinate it with another person it'd be fine.

People could also collaborate on an item order just by updating it in the thread but nonlinear, as Fizzer said, would probably be the way to go. But you'd still probably want to have a few general hardcaps (super missile doors, PB doors, SB for SB blocks, and Gravity suit for rooms that require normalgravity jumping in water). Perhaps the item order could be as simple as

Morphball
Missiles
Bombs
SMs
SB
PBs
Gravity

and just let other people place the other items as they see fit. Still, I'd think that you'd need to know who was going to use what item, so another person doesn't end up using it in their area as well.

And then of course, the coordination on the map is still basically absolutely necessary.

ducknerd

2008-05-07 08:06:35 pm

Eschews avatars

Let's add varia and grapple to that list near SMs, and maybe space jump afterward.

As for the map, perhaps we should just create a boring old radial structure with a part of crateria with a bunch of doors serving as the game's 'hub'. It worked in Limit... :P

Lawrence Reyome

2008-05-08 12:10:22 am

Metroid Exp: Exploration - Great, Skills - Decent

I love playing around with the exterior of Crateria, cause in my hack, Ive edited some of the Craterian area including the Gauntlet. From the WS entrance to the Gauntlet area, no screen was left untouched

Xaggoth

2008-05-08 01:23:42 am

I agree that this would be so much better even with just slight planning. Just set up maybe one or two barriers so only a few items are needed to move onto the next section. It would be somewhat of a disappointment if you never had to backtrack to old sections either. Minor planning at most would make it so much easier to make and much more fun to play.

Cardweaver

Edit history:

Cardweaver: 2008-05-08 05:07:40 am

2008-05-08 04:59:35 am

I'm game. But I only want a small portion, so I want Croco's lair. As for what main item I want... since speedbooster is already taken... I'll take Gravity?

I also request that people have the speedbooster before they would get to my area.

BT, great idea. These rooms are from Croco's room through the original grapple area and back, including the savestation, though I don't think that anyone should edit those.

Rooms:
7A98D
7AA82
7AAB5
7AADE
7AB07
7AB2D
7AB3B
7AB64
7AB8F
7AC00
7AC2B

Items: Gravity, some missile expansions

edit: just reread Ducknerds post and became sad, then realized that he wants that all done sans gravity, and became happy again. My plans would work well with his as far as linearity goes. After you get past his area, you'd go on a gravity quest.

edit2: I also think we should get a concensus on the number of etanks, missiles, etc... needed for certain bosses. That and I want to know what techniques I'm allowed to use, since I know some of you aren't partial to mockball/speedball puzzles. One final thought, we should give charge beam early, because I foresee a lot of "going places too early" SBing, and you can beat any boss with charge; this will prevent players from getting stuck.

I'm game. But I only want a small portion, so I want Croco's lair. As for what main item I want... since speedbooster is already taken... I'll take Gravity?

I also request that people have the speedbooster before they would get to my area.

BT, great idea. These rooms are from Croco's room through the original grapple area and back, including the savestation, though I don't think that anyone should edit those.

Rooms: 
7A98D
7AA82
7AAB5
7AADE
7AB07
7AB2D
7AB3B
7AB64
7AB8F
7AC00
7AC2B

Items: Gravity, some missile expansions

edit: just reread Ducknerds post and became sad, then realized that he wants that all done sans gravity, and became happy again. My plans would work well with his as far as linearity goes. After you get past his area, you'd go on a gravity quest.

edit2: I also think we should get a concensus on the number of etanks, missiles, etc... needed for certain bosses. That and I want to know what techniques I'm allowed to use, since I know some of you aren't partial to mockball/speedball puzzles. One final thought, we should give charge beam early, because I foresee a lot of "going places too early" SBing, and you can beat any boss with charge; this will prevent players from getting stuck.

Crys

2008-05-08 08:44:39 am

Green-Kirby, ROAR!

Aye, I think this calls for some planing.
Who do what area:
Crateria:
Old Tourian:
Brinstar:
Red Brinstar:
Blue Brinstar: ducknerd (whole area),
Ghost ship:
Norfair: Cardweaver (Crocomairs lair)
Lower Norfair:
Maradia: ducknerd (not whole area),
Inner Maradia:
Tourian: Green-Kirby (Whole area)

Extra items:
Cardweaver: ?
Green-Kirby: non
ducknerd: First power bomb.

Item order:
(landing in crateria) -> Morph-Ball -> Missile -> (Old tourian) -> MiniBoss 1 -> Bombs -> (Brinstar) -> Speed booster -> (kraids lair) -> kraid -> varia -> (Norfair) -> Grapple -> Crocomair -> Gravity -> (Maradia) -> Boss -> Space jump -> Tourian.

This is a WIP list. Since we need to agree on a list then work from that point. You may not like the list, But come with a good suggestion then! :)

Most items are not on the list. Mainly since I think it is the best to have this as non linear as possible!
In other words, You should be able to fight ridly earlier but you don't need to until before you enter Tourian. As example.
This will make it easier to design.
For example: Brinstar is the middle area as I call it. It takes time to get past the first time. But when you get a lot of items from later on. You should be able to run right pass the area in no time. Same for the middle part of norfair.

Back to my item order list: WS could be any where in the list. Maybe you need space jump to get in it? Or maybe you only need bombs? Depends on where in the game you want it to come. This makes it easier for each one of us to design!

That's my idea at least! (Fizzer could you put this in the first post please?)
Fizzer: I prefer normal metroids. As my area will be hard but not in that way. (I do have the patch though! ;P)

Aye, I think this calls for some planing.
Who do what area:
Crateria:
Old Tourian:   
Brinstar:
Red Brinstar:
Blue Brinstar:  ducknerd (whole area),
Ghost ship:
Norfair:          Cardweaver (Crocomairs lair)
Lower Norfair:
Maradia:         ducknerd (not whole area),
Inner Maradia:
Tourian:         Green-Kirby (Whole area)

Extra items:
Cardweaver:  ?
Green-Kirby: non
ducknerd: First power bomb.

Item order:
(landing in crateria) -> Morph-Ball -> Missile -> (Old tourian) -> MiniBoss 1 -> Bombs -> (Brinstar) -> Speed booster -> (kraids lair) -> kraid -> varia -> (Norfair) -> Grapple -> Crocomair -> Gravity -> (Maradia) -> Boss -> Space jump -> Tourian.

This is a WIP list. Since we need to agree on a list then work from that point. You may not like the list, But come with a good suggestion then! :)

Most items are not on the list. Mainly since I think it is the best to have this as non linear as possible!
In other words, You should be able to fight ridly earlier but you don't need to until before you enter Tourian. As example.
This will make it easier to design.
For example: Brinstar is the middle area as I call it. It takes time to get past the first time. But when you get a lot of items from later on. You should be able to run right pass the area in no time. Same for the middle part of norfair.

Back to my item order list: WS could be any where in the list. Maybe you need space jump to get in it? Or maybe you only need bombs? Depends on where in the game you want it to come. This makes it easier for each one of us to design!

That's my idea at least! (Fizzer could you put this in the first post please?)
Fizzer: I prefer normal metroids. As my area will be hard but not in that way. (I do have the patch though! ;P)

Cardweaver

2008-05-08 08:58:49 am

I thought that Ducknerd had claimed speedbooster, and was planning to have it be in the Maridia area between WS and Botwoon. If thats not the case, then ok, but if it is, then your sequence is flawed a bit.

Maybe:

morph/missiles -> bombs -> go through brinstar for beams/supers/missiles/etanks? ->red brinstar for more stuff -> WS -> Ducknerd's Maridia -> Kraid/Varia (not necessarily connected, this is a hack people, we can change things)-> Upper Norfair (including my Crocomire area)

Really, thats all the structure thats required. By going through that route, people would have the missiles/supers/pbs, varia, speedbooster, gravity, and maybe grapple depending on the designers of brinstar/maridia/norfair. With those items, you can get pretty much anywhere.

With that suggestion, I would also like to request High Jump boots as an item, since its almost never necessary, I'd like to make it so. However, this could conflict with Ducknerd's area, seeing as it would be underwater a lot. So its not a dealbreaker, but i want it, and at least need to know whether or not people will have it by the time they get to my area.

I thought that Ducknerd had claimed speedbooster, and was planning to have it be in the Maridia area between WS and Botwoon. If thats not the case, then ok, but if it is, then your sequence is flawed a bit.

Maybe:

morph/missiles -> bombs -> go through brinstar for beams/supers/missiles/etanks? ->red brinstar for more stuff -> WS -> Ducknerd's Maridia -> Kraid/Varia (not necessarily connected, this is a hack people, we can change things)-> Upper Norfair (including my Crocomire area)

Really, thats all the structure thats required. By going through that route, people would have the missiles/supers/pbs, varia, speedbooster, gravity, and maybe grapple depending on the designers of brinstar/maridia/norfair. With those items, you can get pretty much anywhere.

With that suggestion, I would also like to request High Jump boots as an item, since its almost never necessary, I'd like to make it so. However, this could conflict with Ducknerd's area, seeing as it would be underwater a lot. So its not a dealbreaker, but i want it, and at least need to know whether or not people will have it by the time they get to my area.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-05-08 05:43:55 pm

YAY TEXT

Il edit the first post in a moment. first i have some suggestions: i personally think that varia and possibly even gravity should be optional, hidden items. and also that any part which requires space jump should also be possible with wall jump and grapple mastery, make space jump an optional (and difficult to achieve) item. Id like the rooms circled on the attached map if nobody else does? i intend to make a large and challenging lower norfair, and also id like plasma and screw attack.

attachment:

sm maphigh;ight.GIF

Cardweaver

2008-05-08 06:33:26 pm

Quote from fizzer|me-is-liam:

Il edit the first post in a moment. first i have some suggestions: i personally think that varia and possibly even gravity should be optional, hidden items.

Varia being optional reduces the possibilities in Norfair a lot.

Gravity being optional reduces the possibilities in Maridia a lot.

Really, I consider at least Varia necessary to most players. I don't really like suitless heated rooms. Too much pressure. As for suitless underwater, as long as there's leeway for mistakes in jumping, I love it.

If my area becomes optional because Gravity is optional, thats all the better. Allow me to go full out with the eccentricities of many items in the game. Though if thats the case, I'll give up HJ boots. ~~Since nobody has claimed it yet, I'd much rather have the Xray than HJ boots. Though in all honesty, Gravity is the only one that I absolutel want.~~

Nevermind all that. Just had some inspiration: I don't want highjump anymore, I want Springball.

Just Springball and Gravity, the rest of the items in my area will either be plain missiles or etanks.

Quote from fizzer|me-is-liam:

any part which requires space jump should also be possible with wall jump and grapple mastery, make space jump an optional (and difficult to achieve) item

I fully agree here. Though keep in mind without space jump the golden chozo in LN is useless.

[quote="fizzer|me-is-liam"]
Il edit the first post in a moment. first i have some suggestions: i personally think that varia and possibly even gravity should be optional, hidden items. [/quote]

Varia being optional reduces the possibilities in Norfair a lot.

Gravity being optional reduces the possibilities in Maridia a lot.

Really, I consider at least Varia necessary to most players. I don't really like suitless heated rooms. Too much pressure. As for suitless underwater, as long as there's leeway for mistakes in jumping, I love it.

If my area becomes optional because Gravity is optional, thats all the better. Allow me to go full out with the eccentricities of many items in the game. Though if thats the case, I'll give up HJ boots. [s]Since nobody has claimed it yet, I'd much rather have the Xray than HJ boots. Though in all honesty, Gravity is the only one that I absolutel want. [/s]

Nevermind all that. Just had some inspiration: I don't want highjump anymore, I want Springball.

Just Springball and Gravity, the rest of the items in my area will either be plain missiles or etanks.

[quote="fizzer|me-is-liam"]
any part which requires space jump should also be possible with wall jump and grapple mastery, make space jump an optional (and difficult to achieve) item[/quote]

I fully agree here. Though keep in mind without space jump the golden chozo in LN is useless.

Black Telomeres

2008-05-08 06:44:11 pm

Quote from Cardweaver:

Varia being optional reduces the possibilities in Norfair a lot.

You could just turn off the heat bit in every heated room thats required to go through. Nevertheless, I'd agree that giving the Varia early on at some point is still probably a good idea

Hitaka

2008-05-08 06:45:53 pm

Phoenix

Quote from Cardweaver:

I fully agree here. Though keep in mind without space jump the golden chozo in LN is useless.

Can the statue be hacked to not require space jump?

Black Telomeres

2008-05-08 06:47:45 pm

If you know where the offsets for that particular requirement are, yes.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-05-08 06:54:20 pm

YAY TEXT

I didnt know that the statue required space jump to be honest, but i could make the statue only fought for screw attack, and space jump needed to activate it (if thats what you need space jump for). also yes PLEASE involve spring ball, im gunna make plasma beam hell to acheive :D but on the bright side im making it better (atleast if i can get my hands on that god damned elusive seperation patch)

Cardweaver

2008-05-08 07:21:46 pm

Gold chozo is different from Golden Torizo. I could be wrong, but your post made it sound as though you confused them.

Quote from Hitaka:

Can the statue be hacked to not require space jump?

I think between Acheron and I, we determined that the requirement was hardcoded into the statue, but this could theoretically still be changed with extensive knowledge and a lot of guess and check.

fizzer|me-is-liam

2008-05-08 07:30:56 pm

YAY TEXT

Oh you mean the one that lowers the lava? why in gods name does that require space jump?

playerman1230

2008-05-08 07:45:30 pm

Hated by all

Quote from fizzer|me-is-liam:

other planned edits: i am changing beam speeds, would be happy if someone could get their hands on an anti-combo patch? :(

Also people, make sure to state anything you wish to change aswell as level design, for example enemy HP.

If need be, just read Drewseph's notes or ask him.