Best Times

2012-12-25 08:15:14 pm

Quote from Opium:

Seems weird that anyone would record the actual time when the game time is all that really matters.

On the contrary, game time matters absolutely not at all in the most common form of speed running Super Metroid, racing. There have been many instances where one person with a higher game time beat someone with a lower game time, sometimes by as much as half a minute.

Thus, the importance of the real time measurement. Very few of the current runners actually care about game time.

Gari

2012-12-25 09:27:38 pm

Using realtime as a measurement for your run as opposed to gametime actually started with hotarubi's :31 minute any% on youtube. Obviously most of y'all already know about the run, but the defining factor in this run was the complete lack of Murder Beam (VAR beam, whatever you want to call it). Flash forward to like 2010-2011 when myself, Dessyreqt, MSDS, kassiuz all started racing various categories all with realtime determining the winner as opposed to the better gametime. As time went on, we found ways to cut out pause menus, transitions, what have you to try and get more competitive and bring down our times at the expense of gametime. These optimizations led to both the any% and 100% routes going through a major overhaul to push realtime down as far as possible.

In the case of any%, we've cut out several major items like spazer, crab supers, ridley's energy tank and we've delayed getting ice beam until the trip down to lower norfair. The current any% route actual has 0 pause screens, all with optimal boss kills and something like 10-12 doors fewer than hotarubi went through in his original RTA. We've also developed several strategies to cut down on lag in the game to try and push our times down. The runner is actively punished for shooting more than necessary under this route due to natural snes lag that the gametimer doesn't account for. The lack of spazer leads to a lot of tricky missile and health management strategies and a heavier reliance on missiles and precision based shots rather than the blind firing that spazer afforded. Skipping ridley's etank is almost entirely an RTA benefit and it requires the player to be a lot more careful in LN and forces runners to play for efficiently. The current route and strategies are much more difficult than the oldschool hotarubi era strategies and many runners have found them to be more rewarding overall. A current example of the new route is my best run which clocked in at 47:18 SRL timing which was a :31 as well(http://www.twitch.tv/garrison_tt/c/1785450). Compared to hotarubi's :31 (49:25 SRL timing), we've trimmed over two minutes worth of fat from the run and made a much more interesting any% run as a result. We've all done races with realtime as a focus, an example of this can be shown on this page: http://deanyd.net/statsy/84014525_leaderboard_supermetroid_any_.htm.

Dessyreqt would be a better person to explain the differences from oldschool 100% to current 100% runs, but it's pretty much the same as with any% sans skipping items. Basically, there are some routes that reward gametime over realtime and vice verse due to door transitions and situations where you'd be forced to go into the menu more than others. Once again, lag comes into play and the amount of powerbombs you lay and their positions can be more harmful for realtime.

Basically what it all amounts to is that we have a 150 people who've raced the game on SRL and who've RTA'd the game, and without a doubt the vast majority of them have abandoned the gametimer in favor of realtime similar to every other game out there. I'm still debating whether I want to submit my run to SDA and I can't speak for dessyreqt entirely, but I'm pretty sure at this point, both runs would end up being submitted with realtime in mind and would be timed with traditional SDA timing from control start to loss of control. If anyone is ever curious about this or wants to see what the active Super Metroid community is up to, we do have an irc channel (#supermetroidon on irc.speedrunslive.com) where you can check in with us. Peace y'all.

Using realtime as a measurement for your run as opposed to gametime actually started with hotarubi's :31 minute any% on youtube. Obviously most of y'all already know about the run, but the defining factor in this run was the complete lack of Murder Beam (VAR beam, whatever you want to call it). Flash forward to like 2010-2011 when myself, Dessyreqt, MSDS, kassiuz all started racing various categories all with realtime determining the winner as opposed to the better gametime. As time went on, we found ways to cut out pause menus, transitions, what have you to try and get more competitive and bring down our times at the expense of gametime. These optimizations led to both the any% and 100% routes going through a major overhaul to push realtime down as far as possible.

In the case of any%, we've cut out several major items like spazer, crab supers, ridley's energy tank and we've delayed getting ice beam until the trip down to lower norfair. The current any% route actual has 0 pause screens, all with optimal boss kills and something like 10-12 doors fewer than hotarubi went through in his original RTA. We've also developed several strategies to cut down on lag in the game to try and push our times down. The runner is actively punished for shooting more than necessary under this route due to natural snes lag that the gametimer doesn't account for. The lack of spazer leads to a lot of tricky missile and health management strategies and a heavier reliance on missiles and precision based shots rather than the blind firing that spazer afforded. Skipping ridley's etank is almost entirely an RTA benefit and it requires the player to be a lot more careful in LN and forces runners to play for efficiently. The current route and strategies are much more difficult than the oldschool hotarubi era strategies and many runners have found them to be more rewarding overall. A current example of the new route is my best run which clocked in at 47:18 SRL timing which was a :31 as well(http://www.twitch.tv/garrison_tt/c/1785450). Compared to hotarubi's :31 (49:25 SRL timing), we've trimmed over two minutes worth of fat from the run and made a much more interesting any% run as a result. We've all done races with realtime as a focus, an example of this can be shown on this page: http://deanyd.net/statsy/84014525_leaderboard_supermetroid_any_.htm.

Dessyreqt would be a better person to explain the differences from oldschool 100% to current 100% runs, but it's pretty much the same as with any% sans skipping items. Basically, there are some routes that reward gametime over realtime and vice verse due to door transitions and situations where you'd be forced to go into the menu more than others. Once again, lag comes into play and the amount of powerbombs you lay and their positions can be more harmful for realtime.

Basically what it all amounts to is that we have a 150 people who've raced the game on SRL and who've RTA'd the game, and without a doubt the vast majority of them have abandoned the gametimer in favor of realtime similar to every other game out there. I'm still debating whether I want to submit my run to SDA and I can't speak for dessyreqt entirely, but I'm pretty sure at this point, both runs would end up being submitted with realtime in mind and would be timed with traditional SDA timing from control start to loss of control. If anyone is ever curious about this or wants to see what the active Super Metroid community is up to, we do have an irc channel (#supermetroidon on irc.speedrunslive.com) where you can check in with us. Peace y'all.

Pawbdr

2012-12-26 12:29:39 am

Lies

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2012-12-26 10:29:35 am

2012-12-26 10:27:36 am

Excellent boss & mini-boss fights. The only two major screw ups I can recall are the shinespark to Draygon’s room and the LN missed short-charge, which still were heavily compensated by those good boss fights (only thing I care about, ATM). It’d be great if you submit this run, regardless. I won’t pretend to give you any hints, since ya’ll know a lot more and better than me, but at this level of gaming, I would record every single run attempt. Sometimes, practice runs surprisingly turn out to be better than the serious ones.

Hope you guys keep working on realtime runs, they make a lot of sense now after watching your run + doing a formal research of the time differences. I’ll happily keep watching ‘em. Also, thanks for the irc. link. Best regards.

Gari

2013-03-10 07:35:45 pm

Hello, I got a 00:30 single segment and I thought I'd share it here as well. Run was optimized for fastest possible realtime, but it's also the fastest gametime. Hope people enjoy it.

Behemoth

2013-03-11 11:04:20 am

God damn where are the replies ? !!!

Congratulations man I knew you would do it eventually, that was an exceptionally clean run, and fucking hell you're lucky with bosses :P. You kept this run together with no huge derailments, only small mistakes peppered along the road which didn't add up significantly. all important big time savers were done very well.

Good to see you doing the metroid skip, and that is a very interesting way to do it. Is it easier?. I've had my own way to do it consistently for NTSC in 6 jumps with the normal turn around door trigger.

I really like the realtime strats of killing enemies in rooms where a PB will be used further on so you reduce lag. Outside the save room in lower norfair is the best example, I was shocked at the reduced lag there :P

Anyway once again fantastic run !

Gari

2013-03-11 03:59:57 pm

Yeah, that version of the big metroid skip is much easier than the older method. I think I got it in 7 jumps in my run, but I'm practiced to do it in six, so it doesn't really lose time comparatively. I always seem to get grabbed with the turn around animation, but midair morphing makes your hitbox just small enough that you can get away.

Holgerius

2013-03-11 04:09:40 pm

Holy shit! What a splendiferous run! It's mindblowing how much you have improved in the last year. :D It's a pity I don't have time to hang around watching your stream these days. :(

Huge grats, Garrison! Now go grab that sub-30. ;D

Quietus

2013-03-11 06:37:19 pm

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Great run, Garrison. It's always cringeworthy to watch a run, and see the runner fail stupid little jumps or the opening of doors when you know that 99% of the time they don't even require thought. Too much focus on the harder stuff, I guess. aiwebs_004

Anyway, when can I expect my 0:43 100% run. winky

kirbymastah

2013-03-12 10:35:13 am

Words are not enough to describe this run.

F-Bomb

2013-03-13 03:05:59 am

The Bomb that says it all .!..

Very Slick Run indeed. Great work with the Bosses, Plus I didn't see the presence of one pause screen. Well done.
Also I must say that it requires great skill to pull off the full shinespark in Maridia on the way to Draygon the way you did. Whenever I try it that way I always accidentaly hit the up button on the wall jumps and fuck it all up.

Quietus

2013-03-13 05:42:21 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from F-Bomb:

I didn't see the presence of one pause screen. Well done.

This has become a standrad among RTA runners. The old 100% route was changed to accommodate this. The biggest difference was leaving Ice Beam until entering Lower Norfair.

Gari

2013-03-14 08:21:57 pm

Have no idea if anyone is interested, but I figured I would invite any of y'all to hang out on our irc channel where we do most of the work on the game. irc.speedrunslive.com #supermetroid

We're pretty focused on realtime, but it's always good to have another perspective on the game.

Tonski

2013-03-19 08:06:00 am

Did I get this right: so that run is a valid SS any% run beating Hotarubi's time? When will we see one of your runs on Speeddemosarchive? That run is insane!

Quietus

2013-03-19 09:52:20 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

Quote from Tonski:

Did I get this right: so that run is a valid SS any% run beating Hotarubi's time?

Yep.

072

2013-03-20 10:02:28 pm

coral to complement blue

This was amazing. Do you have an estimate on how close you were to :29?

Behemoth

2013-03-21 01:15:13 pm

Reeve calculated this not long ago and said it's most definitely a high 30, like 30:5x. But a 30 is still a 30 Very Happy

MASTER-88

2013-04-04 07:05:54 am

Speedrunner

I agree Reeve are calculated this quite right. As far as i can tell his previous run was 46:26 and its end 31 minutes. So this run was at least 30:45 or higher 30 minutes. This look big metroid skip was only way got 30 minutes final time.

BTW Congrats garrison this was really mad run. I´ll hope see this in SDA.

Next i´ll hope you will try 100% category in 45 minutes. grin new

Tyjet66

Edit history:

Tyjet66: 2013-04-20 06:21:43 pm

2013-04-20 06:21:34 pm

What'd you say?

I'm horribly ashamed to even post this, but since it's been my first console run in the longest time, I will:
1:04
39%

MASTER-88

Edit history:

MASTER-88: 2013-04-30 10:06:22 am

MASTER-88: 2013-04-30 09:45:31 am

2013-04-30 08:53:18 am

Speedrunner

Is anyone see that live channel before?
http://www.twitch.tv/zoasty/c/2181969

Zoasty actually beat Garrisson run by 6 seconds real time. Its also 30 minutes run. He haved many awesome Super Metroid run

I just watched this new WR run by Zoast. First 16 minutes run look somewhat little bad. But other game went so well nearly mistakes free. Im not never are see awesome Draygon fight like here. Its simply perfect.

I think there might be very little chance got 29 minutes ingame time run. But its very long way. I think Zoast run is somewhere 30:45 or higher

Behemoth

2013-05-04 09:44:11 pm

I watched this run, and it's crazy for the choice of strats he used. It's very much a realtime oriented run. As a guess I'd say the in game time sits around the same as garrisons, in that's it's probably a bit higher than you think. The time shaven from realtime comes from not entering kraids energy tank room and no refill after wrecked ship, and instead collecting the ET after botwoon. While slow strat itself, it's actually counterbalanced by not entering those rooms mentioned,. On top of that it's faster for realtime to do so because of subtracting 4 door transitions from the run. This is also a very risky strat especially after phantoon and going to maridia to fight botwoon. But it pays off if you keep a good eye on your health and plan along the way.

Reeve

2013-05-05 12:53:35 pm

Yeah, i found it an interesting route. I was unsure at first, but after doing some calculations this route can be both faster in-game time (by around half second) and realtime (by around 12 or 13 seconds). Which means that, considering garrison's best time, zoast would have to get a run around 45:58 to be equaly fast in-game time. There could be a small difference due to lag. It seems that the goal now for tealtime is under 46min.

Smokey

Edit history:

Smokey: 2013-05-24 10:33:28 am

2013-05-07 09:47:42 am

This route also relies heavily on refill drops, especially after boss fights. It's something the runner will have to seriously consider before attempting this. It was a pretty brave thing to do on his part to continue the run after that early start, so the choices he made (like Behemoth said) turned out to be beneficial for him. I've said it before, and I'll say it again; don't reset too often, sometimes when you think you're doing bad just continue; it serves for both practice and to possibly turn things in your favor.

Behemoth

2013-05-08 10:33:27 am

Quote from Smokey:

I've said it before, and I'll say it again; don't reset too often, sometimes when you think you're doing bad just continue; it serves for both practice and to possibly turn things in your favor.

Amen to that smokey.
I'd even go further and say when you simply play bad anywhere in the run, it can have a psychological advantage. In that it pisses you off and replaces the nerves that you always get from those rare clean runs, which always end in failure for me anyway. Mistakes for me are so expected that I literally am waiting for it to happen in every single run (of course I don't want it to happen at all) and when it does it's like the necessary boost to my confidence to roll with a punch and finish the run. It can still be great.

Maybe I just suffer from runners jitters more than most though ? Think

Behemoth

2013-07-26 04:25:04 pm

This is my latest and best attempt on any% for NTSC. I have been semi secretly working on this for several months, starting last year. It uses the realtime route from Zoasty, Kottpower and co. To my knowledge i think it is the first to achieve 29, and it was my goal from the beginning to get it so, for this i'm very happy with it. However, while it does have some quite lucky boss fights, it is far from perfect. I messed some of my favourite and fast strats throughout the run which i never usually mess up. The realtime sits around 45:22. but i believe with some further attempts i could knock it down to 45:05 or thereabouts. Sub 45 would be phenomenal. It's now just a matter of having enough willpower to improve it.