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Screwy:
If you really can make a 35 min any% with pure skill and no tools at all, its a big waste if you do it on Emu IMO (except you don't have the original console game anymore). You would gain much more popularity doing it on console since its provable legit then, but of course its your decision.

If you have big knowledge of the game and are patient you should aim for the record that can be reached in a tool assisted movie on emu (which is 27 min currently). Breaking the 20 min barrier sounds quite impossible, but it should be the goal in the next years if someone (maybe) find even more timesaver or glitches.

Mr H. Simpson:
Any news about the routes?
All times start from the top of the vertical room just before the grapple room.  Note that I didn't cut out the the time when you're in a door going between rooms, which the game doesn't count iirc.

To ship/brinstar, goes through alternate exit, skips plasma, ends when blue door above the very large room at the beginning of maridia  is entered:  0:50

To Ridley, skips plasma, same route as above but drops down in the very large room at the beginning of maridia: 1:12

Gets plasma, go to ridley: I just used smokeys time.  He starts at 5:57 and ends at 8:28, which is a total of 2:31.

Gets plasma, goes to ship:  (smokeys time up to the room where you have to drop through an invisible hole in the floor - this is from 5:57 to 8:12) 2:15 + 7 to get to green gate + 3 to raise/get under it (no, I can't perform the GGG on my first try anymore :/) + 27 to go up to the blue door above the huge room.  Total: 2:52

These are only approximate and may be off by a few seconds.  Take them, but with a grain of salt (unless you plan on doing your own, of course).

Now, to copy-paste what I said earlier and fill in some times.

So: if you get plasma, go draygon -> ridley.
If you skip plasma, then:
You get the spazer, you lose 15 secs.
You save about 15-20 secs of travel time.
You lose a minute in the ridley battle.
You lose ~2 minutes in the mb battle.
You lose however much from no SJ in lower norfair.
You save 2:02 in Maridia travel time if you did draygon last... OR
You save 1:19 in Maridia travel time if you did draygon before ridley.
Quote from Saturn:
Screwy:
If you really can make a 35 min any% with pure skill and no tools at all, its a big waste if you do it on Emu IMO (except you don't have the original console game anymore). You would gain much more popularity doing it on console since its provable legit then, but of course its your decision.


I play on Emu. couse i hate to use controllers and i dont have a Super Nintendo console.
Getting a <35 run doesnt seem that hard too do couse in my 36 min run i missed lots of tricks like Glitch through Zebetites (didnt know how to do it back then), Murder beam (didnt know how to do that either), the lower norfair shine spark were i powerbombed insted and my total % was way to high (33%).
Now when i just do single segment run i usually get 37-39min.
Well, I would like to see your run anyway. Maybe it also helps us in finding some new ideas, strategies and routes.

Do you think of uploading the complete segments somewhere? You can do it in 10 sec on http://www.rapidshare.de for example. Maybe we could give you more hints for possible improvements by watching it.
Quote from Saturn:
Well, I would like to see your run anyway. Maybe it also helps us in finding some new ideas, strategies and routes.

Do you think of uploading the complete segments somewhere? You can do it in 10 sec on http://www.rapidshare.de for example. Maybe we could give you more hints for possible improvements by watching it.


As for strategies i haven´t really got any. I will only change the route by not going too ship after Ridley just right too MB and probaly take the ice beam just before Ridley so it´ll be alot like the 27 min run.
I think i will do the Blue suit glitch at Drygoon but having a little problem about how low his health is and such.

Thank you Saturn about the upload site :)
I tryd it and it worked (i think).

Heres the link.
http://rapidshare.de/files/5023438/SS_045_Glitchless_Screwy.zmv.html

Its a 45min any% glitchless run which i only did couse i had some spare time.
There could be lots of inprovments in that run but i dont really fell like making a new any% glitchless run anytime soon.
The movie desynced late in the game right after you left lower Norfair, but it was enough to see the most important things.

If this movie is played without any tools like slowdowns and savestates, your moves and reactions are pretty fast. I think you indeed have the skill to make a 35min run if you could avoid some of the errors you did in this movie.
yea, this topic got my attention...

with Phantoon>Spazer/Norfair items>Ridley>Kraid>Draygon>MB path:

ceres/before heading to Phantoon - 0:06
Ridley's Lair - 0:17
before Maridia - 0:24
save at the ship/heading to MB - 0:30

didn't get the plasma beam and didn't bother to finish it. The items collected are the same as :36 (26%).

that was on the rom. I used save states the whole time and had to use slow motion for: the moat(hbj'ing), Phantoon's fight, the first vertical room in LN, Ridley's fight (started with 8 energy units) and some random rooms. Used the same tricks as :36 and added RS's enemy boost and mockball in as many rooms as I could (I'm probably behind new tricks but those were the best ones). It isn't a bad path, it can be for sure improved but isn't worth trying on a console run imo.

personally, the better path is Phantoon>Kraid>Norfair items> Draygon>Ridley. As you guys know after Phantoon and red Brinstar the rest of the run will be focused on Kraid/Maridia and Norfair which might save a bit of more time over the current one (actually I do believe now it saves 30 secs or less). Of course with this one you'll do two trips from Norfair to Maridia (Norfair items/Draygon/Ridley/ Maridia escape route) but it's better than doing two trips from Norfair to upper Crateria in the :36 run (Norfair items/Wrecked ship/Maridia/Ridley/Ship).

I tried that one^ (Phantoon>Kraid>Norfair items>Draygon>Ridley) also, and got :36. I'm pretty sure I can get :35. Loaded a save state after the Wrecked Ship, right before getting Spazer:

varia suit+Norfair items+before Maridia: 0:18
Ridley's Lair: 0:23
Ship/before heading to MB: 0:28 (quite close to :29)
time completion: :36 - 26%  (with and w/o murder beam)

this time around everything was done in slow motion+save states. These are only my numbers. Someone should verify them.
Nice to hear something of you Smokey! The Phantoon first route is definitely better than Kraid first

I agree, the Ridley first route is to hard if you play on console, but what if you do every move in lower Norfair frame-perfect with tools, and maybe collect one more Super Missile Pack in wricked ship to compensate the weak Spazer, could it be faster than the losing time by detours between Maridia and Norfair (there are lot of them, you know) if you go Draygon first. I work on such a run and I would very like to do a Ridley first route because it's much more entertaining this way. But since optimizing every move frame-perfect for such a run takes much time and work to find I have to be sure about the route first. Thats the problem...

My goal was to beat the game in less than 20 min with this route, but now I'm not sure anymore if its possible.
Yeah, you pretty much said what I was thinking.  Although, is there any reason you did Kraid before the norfair items?

I honestly think Phantoon -> norfair items -> draygon -> plasma -> ridley -> kraid -> mb is the best route, at least right now.  I put kraid last just so you could have the speed booster and plasma for him, no other reason.

Saturn: if you *really* want an entertaining movie, do a reverse boss order. >_>
Maur:
Well of course I am more focused on Speed, but still try to be entertaining without losing any time, but this is a interesting point you said. I guess you have to collect as many energy tanks and items as possible (like a NBMB) and then try to break in lower norfair with the normal suit to beat ridley. But I'm not sure if the energy will be enough to stand the heat and the lava there. Also I don't see many possibilities to charge up energy except the Tank before Ridley... A interesting thought anyway.
I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)
Reverse boss order runs have been completed by several people on the console.  Surely a TAS'er could pull one off.
Two things you may be missing:
minibosses are not off limits - you can get Crocomire's and Botwoon's etanks if you want.
And two words: Crystal Flash.

[Edit]: If you're really worried about whether ridley first is faster or not, just make semi-optimized movies.  As in, not frame perfect, but using the best general strategies for each room.  Shouldn't take you more than a few days for each, and you can start from the same savestate at in the room before the spazer and end at the ship (or the elevator to crateria).

For the one vertical room before the acid room in LN, I recommend that you try freezing a pirate at the right point and jumping off of it, for what it's worth.
Yes, I think I will test the ridley route without too much optimizings if I reach the point between this 2 routes. I'm still at the very beginning of the game. To calculations I will leave the Ceres Station at 0:48:67 sec left or faster at the self-distruction mode.

Reverse Bosses:
Yes, but to make it even harder maybe just skip the minibosses as far as possible? That means first boss is Ridley, then Draygon (Botwoon is unskipable therefor I can take the tank there), Phantoon etc... And if it is still not enough then also don't allow to use Crystal Flash at all (not even for Super Missile at SporeSpawn). Then I think it will be very close, right? Also to reach Draygon with the normal suit will be a real Pain in the Water. You only can do it by freezing the enemies for additional Platforms to pass.
Quote from Maur:
Yeah, you pretty much said what I was thinking.  Although, is there any reason you did Kraid before the norfair items?

I honestly think Phantoon -> norfair items -> draygon -> plasma -> ridley -> kraid -> mb is the best route, at least right now.  I put kraid last just so you could have the speed booster and plasma for him, no other reason.


I thought it was the next natural move to do after Phantoon...

btw, I assume you need the speed booster just so you could run through that narrow room before the room before Kraid? or am I missing something? Also, is it faster using the plasma beam on Kraid than the KQK glitch?

I'm a baby now.
You are correct.  I was wanting the plasma just for easy kihunter kills.
Smokey:
Yes, the 4 Super Missile quick Kill on Kraid is still faster than Plasma. Maur already said its only to save time in the narrow room, and for killing enemies faster there.
I have a question for the reversed boss run:

I just remembered that you can't have Graphity Suit in Maridia, so how can you climb up the room to leave after you defeat draygon? There is no platform and now way I can think of. Have I missed something again?

Also is it possible to complete whole Maridia without the Grappling Beam (if you don't have Graphity), because I would like to fight crocomire after phantoon (reversed).


Note:
I hope its ok as a double post since this is a different question in a much later time-period. If not tell me please, won't do it next time.
Quote from Saturn:
I have a question for the reversed boss run:

I just remembered that you can't have Graphity Suit in Maridia, so how can you climb up the room to leave after you defeat draygon? There is no platform and now way I can think of. Have I missed something again?
Does the Space Jump not work under water without Gravity Suit?
there are 2 ways to escape from draygons room without grav (I think, no SM expert.. ):
Blue suit, look around the site for info (not sure if this works...)
Kill draygon at the top of the room so he dumps you there (don't collect space jump!).
The usual way of getting blue suit doesn't work because you can't boost underwater without the gravity suit.  The other method is to a) get him to take you to that upper right ledge and b) kill him while crystal flashing, by using the ice bomb shield.  There may be other ways to kill him there.  You'll then need to use the spark you get from that to get out of the next room.
Quote from Liam:
Does the Space Jump not work under water without Gravity Suit?

Of course not.

I think Blue Suit won't work without graphity.

But right, even if you kill him on the top of the room, how do you want to climb the next room? Sparking without Graphity, does it really work?