Any% with GT code realtime savestate run in 21:41

2012-02-29 01:48:24 am

As you probably know, I focus more on realtime, so I employ my strats accordingly. Since I'll be running this category at SGDQ, I thought it might be wise to create a savestate run and set my goal according to what I get there. This run completes the game in 21:41.25 game time, so I think :24 or :25 is a reasonable goal for me to attain before the end of May. My current best is :28 ingame. However, this thread is about this run, so feedback on it would be most appreciated.

I spent a bit more effort on this run than on my :43 100% run, and I think it shows. Already Ceres is a lot better (though stair room luck was kind of bad,) and I tried to make sure every room that's also represented in a 100% was equal to or better than Reeve's 42:34. I failed in a few rooms of course, but not by too much. I did come up with a few new strats, the ones coming to my head right now are the blocks room at the beginning of the game, and the speed blocks in the final escape.

So please, comment away!

Thread title:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4N9zWJMTrk

As you probably know, I focus more on realtime, so I employ my strats accordingly. Since I'll be running this category at SGDQ, I thought it might be wise to create a savestate run and set my goal according to what I get there. This run completes the game in 21:41.25 game time, so I think :24 or :25 is a reasonable goal for me to attain before the end of May. My current best is :28 ingame. However, this thread is about this run, so feedback on it would be most appreciated.

I spent a bit more effort on this run than on my :43 100% run, and I think it shows. Already Ceres is a lot better (though stair room luck was kind of bad,) and I tried to make sure every room that's also represented in a 100% was equal to or better than Reeve's 42:34. I failed in a few rooms of course, but not by too much. I did come up with a few new strats, the ones coming to my head right now are the blocks room at the beginning of the game, and the speed blocks in the final escape.

So please, comment away!

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-02-29 08:22:52 am

Behemoth: 2012-02-29 08:20:32 am

2012-02-29 06:33:16 am

21 sounds very fast. I did this same run some time ago and got 23 but it was old and not very optimized. I also did a GT code run PAL console and got 30 in game.

24 or even 23 sounds like a worthwhile goal. Go for it !!

edit: I didn't understand the super refilling on the crawlers when going to Kraid, that would be a risky strat for console since they don't always drop them, and you can just refill on the cacti at the noob bridge earlier. You could use a super on baby kraid and be left with the same amount you had on kraid himself, 3 supers. I know your focusing on realtime and you didn't collect the missile pack above charge beam earlier, which didn't leave you with any charge beam or missiles to kill the cacti, but the whole strat seems risky to me. I would suggest just collecting that missile pack next to charge beam and that would tide you over nicely for this section without any worry.

12:55 - It seems you could have done some damage boosts on the flying orbs in this room to speed it up a little

13:07 - you clipped the door, but you might have done this intentionally to get the correct speed for the jump into the lava to do the water ball/bounce.

Did you need to collect the GT supers?, the 20 you get from the GT code seems more than enough for this type of run. It probably sped Ridley up a little after watching that battle but perhaps some realtime seconds may have been saved if you didn't collect the supers. And did you actually need the screw attack? perhaps the 6 or so seconds lost from collecting it probably gets made up for in the multitude of easier room traversials later on. I'm just looking at the possibilities here, since this run is clearly well executed and your very fast, and your aiming for realtime. I'm just thinking about what realtime could be saved since item collection is such a long drawn out process :P

17:34 - you should use the spring ball and bounce to the ceiling of the small alcove your standing in to lay a PB to blast the statue earlier. You will have to do a ceiling glitch so maybe that slows it down a little but I still think it's faster than laying the PB later.

lol, on waiting for the botwoon column to disappear before leaving the room because of his reappearing glitch :)

Interesting strategy on draygon. Is it slower to draw out the x ray plasma method until he dies ?

Love the big spring ball from the last few pixels left in the tunnel shortcut back into red brinstar.

23:30 - I really don't think the shinespark preparation here was necessary. I think it would have been quicker to just space jump over the lake and charge the shinespark in the next part.

29:00 - is that damage boost from the zebitite faster ? looks like it could be but also looks quite risky.

It looks like the first charge shot on mother brain didn't connect, looks like you shot too soon. It happens.

That was a great run, very tightly played, perhaps too good in many places, things that aren't easily replicable, like the mock ball through the passage above charge beam; The spring ball exit on the maridia/red brinstar passage. Also ledge grabbing was extremely consistent throughout which is one of the main reasons why the time is so low on this run I think. Not easy to do on every ledge in the game on console lol. Good stuff though, well done !!

21 sounds very fast. I did this same run some time ago and got 23 but it was old and not very optimized. I also did a GT code run PAL console and got 30 in game.

24 or even 23 sounds like a worthwhile goal. Go for it !!

edit: I didn't understand the super refilling on the crawlers when going to Kraid, that would be a risky strat for console since they don't always drop them, and you can just refill on the cacti at the noob bridge earlier. You could use a super on baby kraid and be left with the same amount you had on kraid himself, 3 supers. I know your focusing on realtime and you didn't collect the missile pack above charge beam earlier, which didn't leave you with any charge beam or missiles to kill the cacti, but the whole strat seems risky to me. I would suggest just collecting that missile pack next to charge beam and that would tide you over nicely for this section without any worry.

12:55 - It seems you could have done some damage boosts on the flying orbs in this room to speed it up a little

13:07 - you clipped the door, but you might have done this intentionally to get the correct speed for the jump into the lava to do the water ball/bounce.

Did you need to collect the GT supers?, the 20 you get from the GT code seems more than enough for this type of run. It probably sped Ridley up a little after watching that battle but perhaps some realtime seconds may have been saved if you didn't collect the supers. And did you actually need the screw attack? perhaps the 6 or so seconds lost from collecting it probably gets made up for in the multitude of easier room traversials later on. I'm just looking at the possibilities here, since this run is clearly well executed and your very fast, and your aiming for realtime. I'm just thinking about what realtime could be saved since item collection is such a long drawn out process :P

17:34 - you should use the spring ball and bounce to the ceiling of the small alcove your standing in to lay a PB to blast the statue earlier. You will have to do a ceiling glitch so maybe that slows it down a little but I still think it's faster than laying the PB later.

lol, on waiting for the botwoon column to disappear before leaving the room because of his reappearing glitch :)

Interesting strategy on draygon. Is it slower to draw out the x ray plasma method until he dies ?

Love the big spring ball from the last few pixels left in the tunnel shortcut back into red brinstar.

23:30 - I really don't think the shinespark preparation here was necessary. I think it would have been quicker to just space jump over the lake and charge the shinespark in the next part.

29:00 - is that damage boost from the zebitite faster ? looks like it could be but also looks quite risky.

It looks like the first charge shot on mother brain didn't connect, looks like you shot too soon. It happens.

That was a great run, very tightly played, perhaps too good in many places, things that aren't easily replicable, like the mock ball through the passage above charge beam; The spring ball exit on the maridia/red brinstar passage. Also ledge grabbing was extremely consistent throughout which is one of the main reasons why the time is so low on this run I think. Not easy to do on every ledge in the game on console lol. Good stuff though, well done !!

Dessyreqt

2012-02-29 09:10:39 pm

Wow, awesome feedback! Time to account for myself...

- You are right that I needed to at least shoot the other cactus in the noob bridge to grab a super. Also, when I do this route on console, I tend to farm a little bit in the hellway coming back from Power Bombs, usually to about 100 health and a few supers. Those bugs can be little trolls, though. In this run, I wanted to see how little I could do it with, though by the time I got to Draygon, I started panicking about how few supers I had.

Anyway, with regards to that second missile pickup and shooting the crawlers before Kraid, that's how I do it in a console run. The difference being that I will have more supers going into Kraid. If I don't get the missiles I need from the crabs, I just drop a PB in the Ki Hunter room. Slightly slower, but I can usually get what need there. And if I still don't have enough missiles for the next room, I can just use a super or two on the pirates.

12:55 - Aye, I most definitely should have tried, I remember doing a few iterations through this room to see what would have worked best. I think one of my goals was to not take damage, much like the room before Kraid. Though the reason I did it before Kraid was that I didn't want to get health bombed. Here, whatever little damage the orbs do would have been an easy expenditure in the face of what was coming up.

13:07 - Yes, this was intentional, as I had two goals for this room: get two Power Bombs (use one in the room) and jump at just the right angle to make the bounceball in the next room. As it turns out, the easiest way to get that angle is to stand at the door before it opens. This is quite similar to how one would do the CWJ across the moat (on NTSC anyway.)

- On collecting GT supers: I feel like this was a wise investment as without them, I would be entering Ridley with 19 supers, and thus require 4 more charged shots to kill him. This by itself is only 2 more seconds, but in those two seconds, Ridley would probably have been in the middle of another AI sequence and would probably wait a few more seconds to self destruct. Getting them vs. not getting them is probably roughly equal time, but it's easier to get them.

- On collecting screw attack: the primary saving for this item come in a few rooms in lower norfair. At the very least, it speeds up the shaft with the gold pirates, both by allowing me to wall jump through one of the pirates and also not requiring me to use a power bomb in the middle. I can also jump through another couple of pirates. Also, it saves time in the room after the ninja pirates as I can screw through some of the enemies there. There are of course other little things that it helps with. I think it adds up to more than seven seconds.

17:34 - That is definitely one of my least favorite ceiling clips, behind the one above Charge beam. I'm not really great at it, and I feel like there's something I'm missing with it. I probably lose about 15 frames because of it, but I do try to make up for it elsewhere in the room.

- Botwoon glitch: I found out about that making this run. I was not pleased.

- Well, Draygon dies faster, as it would have only required another 20 frames or so to kill him, but I wanted the blue suit to spark back across the coliseum. I feel like that spark saves more than the 2 extra seconds I spent killing him with the blue suit. I don't personally remember the numbers, though. I probably should have grabbed my refills off Ridley instead of Draygon, but I don't know if Ridley would have dropped 5 supers.

- The springball isn't as bad as you may think, you can start jumping earlier if that makes it more consistent for you.

- I tried it that way, you end up losing a lot of time in the big room. Also, I tried going for a full speed space jump across the moat, shoot the door, and speed ball across the big room. Loses about 50 frames compared to just sparking the whole way.

- It's faster, but not something I'm sure I'd try in a marathon setting. The gain is minimal. I discovered it accidentally during my 100% route guide, and I thought I'd reprise it here.

- Every shot on Mother Brain connected, Youtube just cuts out half the frames so it looks like I missed. Scumbag Youtube. Note I only fired 20 shots on phase 2, and 40 on phase 3.

- I was aiming for human perfection. Of course every trick in there won't happen in every run, and there won't be any run with every trick, but I think every trick will appear in at least one run.

Thanks for the feedback again!

Wow, awesome feedback! Time to account for myself...

- You are right that I needed to at least shoot the other cactus in the noob bridge to grab a super. Also, when I do this route on console, I tend to farm a little bit in the hellway coming back from Power Bombs, usually to about 100 health and a few supers. Those bugs can be little trolls, though. In this run, I wanted to see how little I could do it with, though by the time I got to Draygon, I started panicking about how few supers I had.

Anyway, with regards to that second missile pickup and shooting the crawlers before Kraid, that's how I do it in a console run. The difference being that I will have more supers going into Kraid. If I don't get the missiles I need from the crabs, I just drop a PB in the Ki Hunter room. Slightly slower, but I can usually get what need there. And if I still don't have enough missiles for the next room, I can just use a super or two on the pirates.

12:55 - Aye, I most definitely should have tried, I remember doing a few iterations through this room to see what would have worked best. I think one of my goals was to not take damage, much like the room before Kraid. Though the reason I did it before Kraid was that I didn't want to get health bombed. Here, whatever little damage the orbs do would have been an easy expenditure in the face of what was coming up.

13:07 - Yes, this was intentional, as I had two goals for this room: get two Power Bombs (use one in the room) and jump at just the right angle to make the bounceball in the next room. As it turns out, the easiest way to get that angle is to stand at the door before it opens. This is quite similar to how one would do the CWJ across the moat (on NTSC anyway.)

- On collecting GT supers: I feel like this was a wise investment as without them, I would be entering Ridley with 19 supers, and thus require 4 more charged shots to kill him. This by itself is only 2 more seconds, but in those two seconds, Ridley would probably have been in the middle of another AI sequence and would probably wait a few more seconds to self destruct. Getting them vs. not getting them is probably roughly equal time, but it's easier to get them.

- On collecting screw attack: the primary saving for this item come in a few rooms in lower norfair. At the very least, it speeds up the shaft with the gold pirates, both by allowing me to wall jump through one of the pirates and also not requiring me to use a power bomb in the middle. I can also jump through another couple of pirates. Also, it saves time in the room after the ninja pirates as I can screw through some of the enemies there. There are of course other little things that it helps with. I think it adds up to more than seven seconds.

17:34 - That is definitely one of my least favorite ceiling clips, behind the one above Charge beam. I'm not really great at it, and I feel like there's something I'm missing with it. I probably lose about 15 frames because of it, but I do try to make up for it elsewhere in the room.

- Botwoon glitch: I found out about that making this run. I was not pleased.

- Well, Draygon dies faster, as it would have only required another 20 frames or so to kill him, but I wanted the blue suit to spark back across the coliseum. I feel like that spark saves more than the 2 extra seconds I spent killing him with the blue suit. I don't personally remember the numbers, though. I probably should have grabbed my refills off Ridley instead of Draygon, but I don't know if Ridley would have dropped 5 supers.

- The springball isn't as bad as you may think, you can start jumping earlier if that makes it more consistent for you.

- I tried it that way, you end up losing a lot of time in the big room. Also, I tried going for a full speed space jump across the moat, shoot the door, and speed ball across the big room. Loses about 50 frames compared to just sparking the whole way.

- It's faster, but not something I'm sure I'd try in a marathon setting. The gain is minimal. I discovered it accidentally during my 100% route guide, and I thought I'd reprise it here.

- Every shot on Mother Brain connected, Youtube just cuts out half the frames so it looks like I missed. Scumbag Youtube. Note I only fired 20 shots on phase 2, and 40 on phase 3.

- I was aiming for human perfection. Of course every trick in there won't happen in every run, and there won't be any run with every trick, but I think every trick will appear in at least one run.

Thanks for the feedback again!

F-Bomb

2012-02-29 09:14:38 pm

The Bomb that says it all .!..

The Bomb Torizo Strat looks new, and It's SICK!!!

Space Jump Quicker that Wall Jump on way to Botwoon? or was it wall jump and I missed the animation?

Draygon and Phantoon are such pussies when you have Plasma. laugh new

Is the third Metroid room a new strat? it is quite slick.

I just want to know, How many re-records was this sweet run?

and are you gonna post the smv?

Good luck with the console run at SGDQ, Hopefully I'm able to watch it.
I think you may have to vary some of your strats slightly as there is lots of risky stuff for console in this run.

I'm sure your aware of all this. It's great to see the rapid improvement. I mean you only broke 1hr a couple of months ago and your doing cool stuff like this.

I been stuck on 0:57 for 6 Months now. Grrr Brick wall

Keep up the good work Dessy!

Dessyreqt

Edit history:

Dessyreqt: 2012-03-01 05:10:17 am

2012-03-01 05:09:30 am

- Bomb Torizo is unfortunately heavily dependent on luck. But yeah, the strat is to try to shoot him 5 times with the pea shooter every 20 frames, then shoot 7 missiles, every 20 frames. Start in a morph ball to make him jump back right away.

- Yes, underwater space jumps are faster than wall jumps if you time them right.

- It's actually the same as in Reeve's 100%, only I added a shot at the end before the mockball so that I could keep going through the door. I thought it was a pretty obvious addition.

- 20,842 which is actually about 500 more than my 100% route guide. I tend to burn through rerecords since I have a script do them for me.

- I've attached the SMV to this post. It was made using SNES9x 1.51 v6, but any version of SNES9x should do.

- Yeah, I have one real difference in the route when I play on console: I get the reserve tank in Brinstar! That's because if you take a hit while flipping, and it happens to trigger the auto-reserve, you remain flipping! You can see me use that trick here:

- I broke an hour in August 2011, and I hit 55 on Christmas of that year. It's been a bit of effort, but racing at SRL really helped the most to bring my time down. I've been pretty loose about playing lately though, not a lot of people seem to want to race 100% anymore. :57 is a strong barrier, it seems like a lot of folks are stalled out there. You, a couple of the American racers, and I think a couple of Japanese racers, too. I think :57 is actually the best racing time in the current Japanese meta.

Just keep at it and you'll break it! Also, you should come race us in SRL sometime! It's a lot of fun!

- Bomb Torizo is unfortunately heavily dependent on luck. But yeah, the strat is to try to shoot him 5 times with the pea shooter every 20 frames, then shoot 7 missiles, every 20 frames. Start in a morph ball to make him jump back right away.

- Yes, underwater space jumps are faster than wall jumps if you time them right.

- It's actually the same as in Reeve's 100%, only I added a shot at the end before the mockball so that I could keep going through the door. I thought it was a pretty obvious addition.

- 20,842 which is actually about 500 more than my 100% route guide. I tend to burn through rerecords since I have a script do them for me.

- I've attached the SMV to this post. It was made using SNES9x 1.51 v6, but any version of SNES9x should do.

- Yeah, I have one real difference in the route when I play on console: I get the reserve tank in Brinstar! That's because if you take a hit while flipping, and it happens to trigger the auto-reserve, you remain flipping! You can see me use that trick here: http://youtu.be/6A-vjnmSPMs#t=1039s

- I broke an hour in August 2011, and I hit 55 on Christmas of that year. It's been a bit of effort, but racing at SRL really helped the most to bring my time down. I've been pretty loose about playing lately though, not a lot of people seem to want to race 100% anymore. :57 is a strong barrier, it seems like a lot of folks are stalled out there. You, a couple of the American racers, and I think a couple of Japanese racers, too. I think :57 is actually the best racing time in the current Japanese meta.

Just keep at it and you'll break it! Also, you should come race us in SRL sometime! It's a lot of fun!

attachment:

GT any% route.smv

Behemoth

Edit history:

Behemoth: 2012-03-01 07:25:26 am

2012-03-01 07:23:53 am

Yeah damage boost at 12:55. I'm not sure how much damage those orbs take but I was aware of the lava section coming up but you escaped with 60 HP iirc so a damage boost may have been ok, but that's minor really at best.

Yep I thought Ridley would somehow be sped up a bit with those extra GT supers, and yeah I completely forgot about the the damn PB laying in the golden pirate shaft if you don't have screw attack. This room and the many others that benefit from having screw attack definitely trade off better than not collecting it :)

After Ridley ceiling glitch can be a finicky one, and you don't lose much from not doing it I suppose. Indeed that charge beam ceiling glitch is just weird...

Botwoon glitch: ouch, I feel for you man.

That's cool about Draygon battle. One thing I forgot to mention is whether or not to pick up draygons drops. Iirc on my old GT code run I waited by the top right door for it to start flickering, didn't collect any drops at all. Ridley and Phantoon is a better choice for refilling since it isn't as slow as Draygons large room. I'm sure some of those you collected helped in Tourian though at least.

The spring ball escape: may give that a bash at some point if it isn't too hard then :)

Ahh yeah Youtube screwing over the picture. I did wonder that since any runner wouldn't let something like that slide.

Out of curiosity, have you watched my 100% PAL run I did last year ?

Yeah damage boost at 12:55. I'm not sure how much damage those orbs take but I was aware of the lava section coming up but you escaped with 60 HP iirc so a damage boost may have been ok, but that's minor really at best.

Yep I thought Ridley would somehow be sped up a bit with those extra GT supers, and yeah I completely forgot about the the damn PB laying in the golden pirate shaft if you don't have screw attack. This room and the many others that benefit from having screw attack definitely trade off better than not collecting it :)

After Ridley ceiling glitch can be a finicky one, and you don't lose much from not doing it I suppose. Indeed that charge beam ceiling glitch is just weird...

Botwoon glitch: ouch, I feel for you man.

That's cool about Draygon battle. One thing I forgot to mention is whether or not to pick up draygons drops. Iirc on my old GT code run I waited by the top right door for it to start flickering, didn't collect any drops at all. Ridley and Phantoon is a better choice for refilling since it isn't as slow as Draygons large room. I'm sure some of those you collected helped in Tourian though at least.

The spring ball escape:  may give that a bash at some point if it isn't too hard then :)

Ahh yeah Youtube screwing over the picture. I did wonder that since any runner wouldn't let something like that slide.

Out of curiosity, have you watched my 100% PAL run I did last year ?

Reeve

Edit history:

Reeve: 2012-03-01 04:20:23 pm

Reeve: 2012-03-01 04:18:57 pm

2012-03-01 03:59:07 pm

I'm still watching the run, but in regards of the time lost in Kraid's area refilling two supers from the crabs, it could be done without loosing time by killing a creature in the Big Dachora room, which drops a missile drop very often, then you could use those two missile to kill the cactis from the noob bridge area.

In regards of the GT Super Missile collection, it could be slower. Each iten Collection Box costs around 5 seconds iirc and in this case you get only 5 Supers. In one of Cpadolfs posts he said that 10 Supers saves just 3 seconds on Ridley in commparision with Charged Plasma + Wave + Ice shots, so, considering that you are only saving 1 and half second in-game time compared to 5 seconds lost in realtime. Unless the addition of 5 supers will help you in the future.

Can't you shoot Botwoon when his head apear?

You could have used the grapple to collect the super drop from the mocktroid after the Shinespark Crash Animation.

attachment:

Missile Drop.smv

Dessyreqt

2012-03-02 09:45:12 am

Reeve: every time I tried to kill that critter, he only dropped energy, so I just left him alone. A missile would have been handy, but it didn't seem to be in the cards.

With regards to the super missile, Ridley was right at a pattern shift when I hit him with the last super, so while I would have gotten him to 0 two seconds faster, I don't think it would have been possible to make him actually die at that moment, instead having to wait for his AI to change again and for him to grab me. However, I could be wrong. I posted the smv, so if you'd like to have a crack at the battle firing only 18 supers instead of 24, you might be able to come up with the solution.

You can shoot Botwoon when his head appears, and then after you kill him, you'd have to wait for him to exit his hole, and then you'd have to wait for each piece to drop. Since the wall doesn't start to clear until the tail drops, you ideally want to wait until the tail is next to the floor, and then kill him.

I didn't think about using grapple there. Good point.

Behemoth: I had exactly 9 supers at MB, and that was with a fair bit of luck (manipulation,) so I expect all the supers I picked up did help.

I did, before it was posted to SDA. Why do you ask?

Reeve: every time I tried to kill that critter, he only dropped energy, so I just left him alone. A missile would have been handy, but it didn't seem to be in the cards.

With regards to the super missile, Ridley was right at a pattern shift when I hit him with the last super, so while I would have gotten him to 0 two seconds faster, I don't think it would have been possible to make him actually die at that moment, instead having to wait for his AI to change again and for him to grab me. However, I could be wrong. I posted the smv, so if you'd like to have a crack at the battle firing only 18 supers instead of 24, you might be able to come up with the solution.

You can shoot Botwoon when his head appears, and then after you kill him, you'd have to wait for him to exit his hole, and then you'd have to wait for each piece to drop. Since the wall doesn't start to clear until the tail drops, you ideally want to wait until the tail is next to the floor, and then kill him.

I didn't think about using grapple there. Good point.

Behemoth: I had exactly 9 supers at MB, and that was with a fair bit of luck (manipulation,) so I expect all the supers I picked up did help.

I did, before it was posted to SDA. Why do you ask?

Behemoth

2012-03-02 12:35:31 pm

That's cool !

I was just curious is all.

Reeve

2012-03-02 05:45:44 pm

Dessyreqt: In regards of the missile drop, yeah, the enemy can drop missile, health or super. It usually drop missile, but you can have bad luck there.

About Ridley Fight, well, i'm thinking about the right strategy in a logic way, i mean, not considering what is going to happen in Ridley's battle. The best would be to avoid that Super Missile pack and fight Ridley considering you're saving time already, because in your TAS you had bad patterns, but what would happen if you reached ridley without that super missile pack or if you were using more charged shots, or if you didn't have fired him so fast with supers? We never know.

Botwoon: i see.

Dessyreqt

2012-03-08 02:59:15 pm

By the way, I tried out that clip in Lower Norfair again and it was really easy, much more so than I remember. So I'll do that from now on.