Alt-Fusion

2008-09-06 12:41:26 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

A surprisingly large number of the doors that are normally locked when you first get to them aren't actually doors at all. One that comes to mind right away is the red door in the first icy room of ARC.

But yeah, entering a locked door won't kill the game off to death.

P.JMan

2008-09-06 04:18:23 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Well, if you're gonna disregard the event system, then you'll have to do without adam, since as soon as you skip even the most insignificant event he'll display the wrong text (see skipping BOX or skipping lowering the water in AQA). But you need him to set the event controlled events, such as the "SR388 goes boom" countdown, or the meltdown countdown, or the countdown to escape the restricted lab. So you are a lot better off working with zero mission really

SleepingSeaweed

2008-09-07 01:50:18 pm

Isn't the event in effect also used to determine what item data you get from the data rooms? So I guess trying to remove adam or events won't work. I might still try to mess around with it in the level editor, the game has such delicious graphics!
And I see no reason to bother with zero mission considering super metroid exists. Using the fusion graphics in SM would be easy enough, but it wouldn't be the same.

Quote from uNsane:

A surprisingly large number of the doors that are normally locked when you first get to them aren't actually doors at all. One that comes to mind right away is the red door in the first icy room of ARC.

So are you saying that what looks like a door is actually just a solid wall? Seems a bit odd compared to SM where there are some doors you can never enter but they still lead to the right room... even one of those sand rooms in Maridia with pipe enemies (that you get to by going down through the sand) had a door leading upwards.

P.JMan

2008-09-07 02:10:01 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Also see, TRO before the cacoons, operations deck before end of game

uNsane

Edit history:

uNsane: 2008-09-07 02:52:40 pm

2008-09-07 02:46:52 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Isn't the event in effect also used to determine what item data you get from the data rooms?

You're not really thinking about this in the right way. The game has an event counter. That event counter makes it so that if you unlock doors when the counter says you should be getting morph ball, you will get morph ball.

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Quote from uNsane:

A surprisingly large number of the doors that are normally locked when you first get to them aren't actually doors at all. One that comes to mind right away is the red door in the first icy room of ARC.

So are you saying that what looks like a door is actually just a solid wall?

Yes. A lot of pointless stuff like that was done; for example, the room right before the ARC security room blocks off the power bomb tanks you can get (to) in that room. Maybe I'll make a video demonstration of this since I'm bored.

Edit: [noembed][url=[/noembed] is something PJ was referring to (though not done exactly how he was referring to it).

[quote="SleepingSeaweed"]
Isn't the event in effect also used to determine what item data you get from the data rooms?
[/quote]You're not really thinking about this in the right way. The game has an event counter. That event counter makes it so that if you unlock doors when the counter says you should be getting morph ball, you will get morph ball.[quote="SleepingSeaweed"]
[quote="uNsane"]
A surprisingly large number of the doors that are normally locked when you first get to them aren't actually doors at all. One that comes to mind right away is the red door in the first icy room of ARC.
[/quote]

So are you saying that what looks like a door is actually just a solid wall?[/quote]Yes. A lot of pointless stuff like that was done; for example, the room right before the ARC security room blocks off the power bomb tanks you can get (to) in that room. Maybe I'll make a video demonstration of this since I'm bored.

Edit: [noembed][url=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UCqEJdNeZUQ]Here[/url][/noembed] is something PJ was referring to (though not done exactly how he was referring to it).

P.JMan

2008-09-07 04:08:59 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from uNsane:

Edit: [noembed][url=[/noembed] is something PJ was referring to (though not done exactly how he was referring to it).

Yeah screw that, I have a much better version of that video in vbm form :p

SleepingSeaweed

2008-09-08 10:51:13 am

Quote from P.JMan:

Also see, TRO before the cacoons, operations deck before end of game

Where can I see this and the other things you mentioned? Are they here on m2k2, because I can't find them. I watched that early plant boss video anyway, so now it makes some sense... won't the rest of the game be completely screwed after you do that?

Quote from uNsane:

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Isn't the event in effect also used to determine what item data you get from the data rooms?

You're not really thinking about this in the right way. The game has an event counter. That event counter makes it so that if you unlock doors when the counter says you should be getting morph ball, you will get morph ball.

You mentioned earlier that there's an event counter, but I didn't realize that unlocking doors and all the other stuff that happens was part of the same counter as getting items... But in that case, couldn't you just switch the events around? I assume every event has som kind of pointer to code, so if you changed the pointers in order to make events appear earlier or later in the sequence... wouldn't you be able to put the final event (when the space station is exploding) much earlier in the sequence and put navigation room conversations after that so they never appear? Then there must be a lot of other practical problems, in the game you're never able to reach anything that triggers an event before you should. Or you can, but you're not supposed to be able to. Every time you've accomplished something you have to go back to the navigation room, and then to another navigation room, next task and so on. Well you know how it is. But my point is, while you must always have a set sequence you might at least be able to change the item order in that sequence. It's not like I can do that though, I don't really have enough knowledge about hacking to find the right addresses, figure out what code does what and such. But it's an idea.

[quote="P.JMan"]
Also see, TRO before the cacoons, operations deck before end of game
[/quote]

Where can I see this and the other things you mentioned? Are they here on m2k2, because I can't find them. I watched that early plant boss video anyway, so now it makes some sense... won't the rest of the game be completely screwed after you do that?

[quote="uNsane"]
[quote="SleepingSeaweed"]
Isn't the event in effect also used to determine what item data you get from the data rooms?
[/quote]You're not really thinking about this in the right way. The game has an event counter. That event counter makes it so that if you unlock doors when the counter says you should be getting morph ball, you will get morph ball.
[/quote]

You mentioned earlier that there's an event counter, but I didn't realize that unlocking doors and all the other stuff that happens was part of the same counter as getting items... But in that case, couldn't you just switch the events around? I assume every event has som kind of pointer to code, so if you changed the pointers in order to make events appear earlier or later in the sequence... wouldn't you be able to put the final event (when the space station is exploding) much earlier in the sequence and put navigation room conversations after that so they never appear? Then there must be a lot of other practical problems, in the game you're never able to reach anything that triggers an event before you should. Or you can, but you're not supposed to be able to. Every time you've accomplished something you have to go back to the navigation room, and then to another navigation room, next task and so on. Well you know how it is. But my point is, while you must always have a set sequence you might at least be able to change the item order in that sequence. It's not like I can do that though, I don't really have enough knowledge about hacking to find the right addresses, figure out what code does what and such. But it's an idea.

P.JMan

2008-09-08 12:35:37 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Nope, it's random routines spread all across the ROM that checks the event counter

SleepingSeaweed

2008-09-08 05:08:38 pm

Ah, but of course. Why make it simple?

P.JMan

2008-09-09 03:37:18 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Just thought I'd list out all the events used by the game (110 in total)

nn12000

2008-09-09 04:27:40 pm

Mister ...

I love all those little smart-ass comments :D But I don't recall Serris or Nightmare from Metroid 2 :S

But damn. So, can none of those events be changed/deleted, or is it just too big of a pain in the ass to bother with?

petrie911

2008-09-09 05:56:00 pm

Quote from Spoo:

Replace Adam with GLADOS.

I support this.

ZephyrZx

2008-09-09 09:28:49 pm

Quote from nn12000:

I love all those little smart-ass comments :D But I don't recall Serris or Nightmare from Metroid 2 :S

But damn. So, can none of those events be changed/deleted, or is it just too big of a pain in the ass to bother with?

Yeah, me neither, where are they? :o

SleepingSeaweed

2008-09-10 07:13:47 am

Heh, that was fun. Cool and pretty useful that you listed all the events. Well not useful for me, but it might be useful for someone else.

"Samus, come to me." <--I still don't get why he can't just tell here then and there

You should know. Well in reality it wouldn't make sense, but in the game there's clearly a reason. Btw, according to Adam the security doors actually keep the X away...

Someone should make an animated series or something using those comments laugh new

And anyone who has played fusion will still recognize the events, so it's all good.

Quote from petrie911:

Quote from Spoo:

Replace Adam with GLADOS.

I support this.

GLADOS ftw! Please, just do it!

nn12000

2008-09-10 12:29:09 pm

Mister ...

If for whatever reason I decide to do my Fusion comic again, I might snag a couple of those ideas aiwebs_008

But that seems highly unlikely at the moment.

uNsane

2008-09-10 04:06:22 pm

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Quote from ZephyrZx:

Quote from nn12000:

I love all those little smart-ass comments :D But I don't recall Serris or Nightmare from Metroid 2 :S

Yeah, me neither, where are they? :o

Quote:

[2008-09-09 17:48:02] <uNsane> pj serris and nightmare werent in m2
[2008-09-09 17:48:11] <PJBoy|> that's the point

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Btw, according to Adam the security doors actually keep the X away...

The SA-X blew up a flickerbatting wall. I don't think a door of a different color is going to help.

KaosuReido

2008-09-10 09:45:03 pm

I don't know, differently colored doors might be like Kryptonite for SA-X.

Seriously, though, we've heard about Fusion's event system. I'm curious, though, on how Zero Mission handles thing. It seemed much nicer about Sequence Breaking. For obvious reasons.

What CAN be changed in Fusion, though?

SleepingSeaweed

Edit history:

SleepingSeaweed: 2008-09-11 11:06:59 am

2008-09-11 02:48:49 am

Quote:

Quote from SleepingSeaweed:

Btw, according to Adam the security doors actually keep the X away...

The SA-X blew up a flickerbatting wall. I don't think a door of a different color is going to help.

Hmm, seems like you have a point Rolling Eyes

I guess it's true, nothing makes any sense in this game.

P.JMan

2008-09-11 03:02:24 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from KaosuReido:

how Zero Mission handles thing.

It's like super metroid, it has its own bit per event, eg. chozodia n00b tube has its own bit, zebes "blown up" has its own bit, each boss being dead has their own bit, I actually can't think of any more events other than those

ZephyrZx

2008-09-11 08:49:14 am

I'm actually playing M2 to check stuff in and out of Fusion >_>;

I know the Nightmare isn't in M2, cause they even explain that it was created by the scientists and stuff to watch Arc sector, but serris? did they pull that one out of their asses?

nn12000

2008-09-11 10:29:26 am

Mister ...

Quote from ZephyrZx:

I'm actually playing M2 to check stuff in and out of Fusion >_>;

I know the Nightmare isn't in M2, cause they even explain that it was created by the scientists and stuff to watch Arc sector, but serris? did they pull that one out of their asses?

I just recently played M2 up until the Queen Metroid and I can verify that neither Serris or Nightmare were in Metroid 2. And as stated at the top of the page, it was more or less a joke. Though, I do want to say I recall a serris-like creature in M2. But it could just be my imagination messing with me :/

FirePhoenix

2008-09-11 10:31:04 am

Quote from ZephyrZx:

I'm actually playing M2 to check stuff in and out of Fusion >_>;

I know the Nightmare isn't in M2, cause they even explain that it was created by the scientists and stuff to watch Arc sector, but serris? did they pull that one out of their asses?

While you're at it, don't forget they pulled entire Sectors out of their asses. TRO, ARC, AQA, PYR, those places didn't exist in Metroid 2. It was just cave after cave with a little variety of general cave between them all.

SleepingSeaweed

2008-09-11 11:26:24 am

I think it's a strange idea that they "pull something out of their asses" when they use something that hasn't been used in an earlier metroid game. Alright I know you're discussing this because a lot of creatures from m2 reappear in fusion (and also because of pj's little comments). But if you just use the same stuff it will basically be the same game. Ridley seems to come back in every metroid game except for m2, that's enough for me. I'm glad they added some creatures we hadn't seen before.

Don't misunderstand, I know you people realize this too. Just couldn't help reacting on the discussion.

ZephyrZx

2008-09-11 12:57:39 pm

Quote from FirePhoenix0:

Quote from ZephyrZx:

I'm actually playing M2 to check stuff in and out of Fusion >_>;

I know the Nightmare isn't in M2, cause they even explain that it was created by the scientists and stuff to watch Arc sector, but serris? did they pull that one out of their asses?

While you're at it, don't forget they pulled entire Sectors out of their asses. TRO, ARC, AQA, PYR, those places didn't exist in Metroid 2. It was just cave after cave with a little variety of general cave between them all.

Yeah, that too xd, though its more like Cave to ruin to cave thingy down there, and some lava and earthquakes...

Von Richter

2008-09-11 06:21:17 pm

If the general Nintendo literature is to be a guide, most sectors in Fusion are unrelated to SR388. That's why there is a Zebes sector, an SR388 (SRX) sector, etc. The rest are apparently intended to be environments from other planets, which opens up a lot of interesting fangame adventure possibilities.