5%

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:42:07 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 12:11:13 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-05-31 04:14:15 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-05-31 04:13:28 pm

2013-05-31 04:10:17 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

wait, so the goal of low% is to finish the game with the least amounts of upgrades you can get, right?....

the idea i had was, to play the game normally except for skipping the items you need to get to the bosses.
so you would do the item loss after opening the access to the bosses and fight them, loosing your items reverts the percentage counter to 0%.

list of items you need to fight the bosses:

light suit (?)
spider
dark beam (to use the dark portal, i dont think theres another way to get to dark world in temple grounds)
screw attack (unless you can wallcrawl to ing emperor somehow)

so the problem is to get the sky temple keys without light suit... well, youd have light suit, but also you dont have dark visor, so you cant erase light suit or dark visor, because you'll probably need them both to get to the keys. (the one in agon and the one in lower torvus) both of them are probably possible to get by wallcrawling, and the other one in temple grounds is probably possible to get without light suit (it just costs a ton of energy and you can get 14 e tanks to probably get it)
i think you need dark/light beam to get all the skytemple keys, meaning you would not have them to get to the bosses at the end.
also theyres a key in sanctuary, the one which is at the entrance of it in dark world, you cant skip light suit there, because you need it to get to the key i guess unless you can get it by wallcrawling.

Thread title:

wait, so the goal of low% is to finish the game with the least amounts of upgrades you can get, right?....

the idea i had was, to play the game normally except for skipping the items you need to get to the bosses.
so you would do the item loss after opening the access to the bosses and fight them, loosing your items reverts the percentage counter to 0%.

list of items you need to fight the bosses:

light suit (?)
spider
dark beam (to use the dark portal, i dont think theres another way to get to dark world in temple grounds)
screw attack (unless you can wallcrawl to ing emperor somehow)

so the problem is to get the sky temple keys without light suit... well, youd have light suit, but also you dont have dark visor, so you cant erase light suit or dark visor, because you'll probably  need them both to get to the keys. (the one in agon and the one in lower torvus) both of them are probably possible to get by wallcrawling, and the other one in temple grounds is probably possible to get without light suit (it just costs a ton of energy and you can get 14 e tanks to probably get it)
i think you need dark/light beam to get all the skytemple keys, meaning you would not have them to get to the bosses at the end.
also theyres a key in sanctuary, the one which is at the entrance of it in dark world, you cant skip light suit there, because you need it to get to the key i guess unless you can get it by wallcrawling.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-05-31 04:47:30 pm

2013-05-31 04:44:03 pm

If there were a way to get all the sky temple keys without light suit, sure. But I'm not sure how you'll get the underwater keys, since you literally can't go in the dark water until you get light suit (no, it's not because of the damage).

Then there's the problem of needing dark beam to go to the dark world, and then losing that because you need to lose dark visor. Have fun!

Ntsc

Edit history:

Ntsc: 2013-05-31 08:42:28 pm

2013-05-31 08:39:41 pm

Does losing your items revert you to 0%? I've never actually tried it after skipping it.
Does it actually wipe out all the items you have?

If this is true you could probably get everything, then get the energy from sanctuary fortress, trigger item loss, return energy to temple, then get the light suit right?

I'd be very surprised if they wipe the memory for keys acquired or the energy from dark sanctuary fortress. The only problem would then be getting to the dark world in temple grounds - since I think you can reach the 2 underwater keys with just the light suit (assuming you powerbomb dark oasis beforehand).

Not really sure how to put off dark beam that long though.

Edit:
Man I hate you guys, I'm loading up MP2 with AR to see what's possible now.

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2013-05-31 11:45:01 pm

2013-05-31 11:44:09 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

I think we're certainly much closer to a Dark + Light Beam skip while adding Annihilator Beam rather than skipping Light Suit since iirc there's only two rooms remaining. Either one is pretty doubtful.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 11:58:41 am

2013-06-01 11:56:40 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

Quote from kirbymastah:

If there were a way to get all the sky temple keys without light suit, sure. But I'm not sure how you'll get the underwater keys, since you literally can't go in the dark water until you get light suit

idk if its possible, the underwater keys are probably possible to get by wallcrawling, but im not sure if its possible to get out of the water afterwards, also theres a key in temple grounds which gives you a ton of damage cause of those light fly things, it'd be amazing to watch a 4 or 5% run, cause the tricks would probably look amazing especially getting the key in templegrounds without light suit. that would probably look like a varialess magmoor run or like the early newborn trick or something, one of my favourite tricks.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 12:11:39 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 12:10:25 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 12:05:00 pm

2013-06-01 12:03:49 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

the thing that makes it impossible is probably... that the bossfight at the end is in the dark world :/
you need dark beam to get to it i think, and you cant open the portal without it near the end of the run.

also theoratically it wouldnt be 4% it'd be 5%, because you need to get bombs in order to defeat the spider guardian, unless the spider ball is still there when you leave after defeating spider guardian.. also it wouldnt be nice to go to the spider ball upgrade without morph ball bombs >_>
maybe gyro the SW makes it possible... but even after collecting it theres no way to get back out without bombs, so yeah ill name the topic 5% now, cause 4% is defenitly not possible.

Ntsc

2013-06-01 01:14:12 pm

5% is lame.
Let me know when change it back to 4%...

In all seriousness I actually saw this 5% file when I loaded my game up to test for 4%. I'm assuming this was done with a ton of cheats but I can't remember.

I still think it is possible to try for 4%.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-06-01 01:15:30 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i could get a 0% file with cheats at sky temple.

MilesSMB

2013-06-01 01:26:43 pm

...The Sky Temple? Why would you go there? Just load the ending as soon as you start the game.

Anyway

If you wanted to get the keys before the item loss:

Keys require Light Suit
Light Suit requires Screw Attack

Sky Temple requires Screw Attack

If you wanted to get the keys after the item loss:

Keys require Light Suit (1)
Light Suit requires Screw Attack (2)
Screw Attack requires Bombs (3), Boost (4)
Boost requires Light Beam (5)
EI2 requires Spider (6)
Going to the Dark World requires Dark Beam (7)

No doubt more issues, but there's no reason to keep going. This isn't even getting into actually surviving any trips through the Dark World before Light Suit.

Ntsc

Edit history:

Ntsc: 2013-06-01 01:28:31 pm

2013-06-01 01:27:53 pm

Yeah probably, I'm not certain what that was achieved with but I'm 100% certain that was done without any cheats that artificially lower the percentage - because I hate typing cheats into the AR screens.

Anyway I'm still messing with 4-5% and seeing what is possible. If I were the developer I probably wouldn't make the teleport to sky temple actually require the light suit since it already requires all of the keys. Has anyone attempted unlocking the sky temple then lost your items?

MilesSMB

2013-06-01 01:28:31 pm

It doesn't require the Light Suit.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:32:36 pm

2013-06-01 01:31:46 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

are you sure that getting all sky keys actually requires light suit?.... i mean i requires dark visor for sure but im not sure about lightsuit.

Ntsc

2013-06-01 01:32:59 pm

At the very least the key in Dark Oasis requires light suit and does the other underwater in underground torvus. You might be able to get the one in upper torvus that is underwater but the other two are to deep inside the map.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:48:09 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:47:14 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:45:43 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:45:15 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:40:54 pm

2013-06-01 01:34:25 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

couldnt you get them by using SW's and ceiling warping to them or using IS or whatever? also you could probably destroy the caches from OoB and use IS to collect the keys right?...

~~also, couldnt you destroy the caches with IS even? i mean youre everyhwere at once so you could potentially destroy them with a boost using IS.~~

nevermind, dark visor has to be activated to make them be visible and you obviously cant put dark visor on while being in the morph ball state.

and on the other hand, you cant survive without light suit to kill the bosses, im pretty sure.
so its definitly required to skip light suit before doing the item loss

hmmm actually maybe with MIB and screw attack, but getting screw attack would be 6% with bombs and spider, making it pretty much useless since 6% is possible anyways.

Ntsc

Edit history:

Ntsc: 2013-06-01 01:39:40 pm

2013-06-01 01:38:38 pm

I wish I understood how IS works with the area triggers in the game more - I mean it clearly is more complicated than you are just everywhere within a room at once.

Edit: Ha nvm, I don't know enough about IS to comment more.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-06-01 01:48:42 pm

2013-06-01 01:48:34 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

so yeah, 5% is not gonna happen. ever.

MilesSMB

2013-06-01 01:49:52 pm

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

are you sure that getting all sky keys actually requires light suit?.... i mean i requires dark visor for sure but im not sure about lightsuit.

So then go focus on finding a Light Suit skip in the first place.