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What are the optimal amount of times to step in and out of the pool? I know when I watched Miles at AGDQ, he was counting?
Thread title: 
Might as well just explain the entire thing:

- Pools start with a value of 10. Firing drains it at a rate of 2 per second (so, it takes 5 to drain the entire thing).
- After 25 seconds (starting from when it's usable), it starts draining on its own at a rate of 1 per second. For the first pool, this starts during the cutscene, so you only have around 21.5 seconds.
- When you enter a pool, the arm cannon will "prepare" the Phazon Beam. If you hold A, you'll immediately shoot once it's done preparing. If you exit the pool before it finishes preparing, you'll still shoot, but it doesn't drain the pool at all.

Theoretically, the best way to drain it is to enter/exit for 20 seconds, then stand in and drain it for the last 5. I personally generally wait 21/22 seconds, because I've probably accidentally drained some of the pool already.

Here's the damage values; note that this is assuming every shot hits, which requires Prime to be close to you since the Phazon Beam spreads out.

- Prime has 36667 HP.
- The Phazon Beam is made up of a bunch of individual beams that do 100 damage each.
- The initial shot has 5 beams, so 500 total.
- Standing in and fully draining the pool does 10500 damage max.
- Fully draining a pool twice leaves Prime with 15667, so you need to shoot without draining the pool a minimum of 32 times, assuming you didn't accidentally drain it.


Note that the "hold A to fire when it's done preparing no matter what" thing doesn't work on PAL. A PAL 3 pool is probably still possible, as you can avoid draining the pool by firing the frame you exit it... But, uh, have fun with that.
Thanks Miles.
some additional information that is important:

-standing still at the beginning of the fight makes prime lay a pool much faster. so don't move around at the beginning of the fight.
-positioning before prime lays a pool is critical. as soon as prime starts to roar approach the edge of the pool and turn 180 degrees. prime will always spawn above your head at whatever edge of the pool you happen to be standing at.
-shooting prime as soon as possible after he lays the pool is really important. you really don't want prime to escape your grasp at anytime and there's a half second window where he can escape if you don't fire immediately and get him under your control.
-prime will do a series of roars between the first and second pool. he'll only drop the pool after the roar which was preceded by the shock wave move. so if prime for example moves to right then roars you know he won't be laying the pool.
-standing on the twig that opposes prime's shell on the other side of the room almost guarantees that prime will lay pool. technically you can be standing along the whole wall but standing on he twig also means you don't have to jump at all.

also i have a question: do we know what causes the game to lag sometimes during the 2 pool? i've realized that when prime is farther away it tends not to lag very much but it can vary by a lot when he's up close to you.
Edit history:
JustinDM: 2014-09-10 08:04:57 pm
And thanks T3. I figured that out by myself earlier today though.
I just stood still and he layed pools faster.

I hope that's a question for Miles. I have no idea.
Edit history:
Littlenino: 2014-09-10 08:32:47 pm
Quote from MilesSMB:
- After 25 seconds


Well fuck, that explains why I have such a hard time even 3-pooling. I thought it was 20 seconds this entire time. I also didn't know that holding A will let you fire the shot after it finishes "preparing", even when not in the pool, which is useful.
Quote from T3:
also i have a question: do we know what causes the game to lag sometimes during the 2 pool? i've realized that when prime is farther away it tends not to lag very much but it can vary by a lot when he's up close to you.

No, I've never really thought about the cause before.
Speedrunner
I never are make even 3 pool fight. I think i can aim 1:07 final time if i can make quick 3 pool fight. I never even plan try 2 pool fight, thats never will happen. Im only see Miles and T3 are only guys into world who are did 2 pool fight. Thats also really painful practice you have to always beat first form, there is nothing good emulator where i can practice that fight.

Yeah my personal best fights ever is 4 pool on ntsc and 6 pool PAL.
Spacevector got a really good 2 pool in his pb.
Edit history:
Littlenino: 2014-09-18 03:19:01 pm
Littlenino: 2014-09-18 03:16:01 pm
Littlenino: 2014-09-18 03:07:43 pm
Littlenino: 2014-09-18 03:07:21 pm
I've been able to 2pool Prime off stream, so it's not just Miles and T3. Kirbymastah's Any% PB also 2pooled Prime. The trick is just that you have to find the right rhythm of stutter-stepping the pool and pressing A, while following Miles' and T3's advice. It took me forever to finally get the hang of it, but it became infinitely easier once that rhythm clicked.

T3's advice for shooting Prime as soon as possible to get him under control is also REALLY REALLY important because the Phazon Beam's spread is fucking huge. Prime getting even a tiny bit farther away can lead to shots missing.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 10:29:07 am
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 10:28:32 am
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 10:24:51 am
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 10:14:25 am
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 10:12:51 am
Speedrunner
No fucking any way 2 pooled this. Not even close. I didn´t even know what i do badly wrong.

There is VERY CLOSE 3 pool (1 hit remain fuck) That was my best attempts ever. I trying just use strategys up keeping hold charge button all time, but its still not ate energy enought. This is also really painful practice this because always need play long first form. Luckily he is not that long 100% file.


There is really quick 4 pools


Also this Prime seems moved always random as hell, there seems no any logic.  This seems 3 pools saved at least 20 seconds compared 4 pool fight. My any-% final time 1:08:25-30 seconds estimate its definitely requires me at least 3 pool fight. Its only way make 6 minutes last segment and reach 1:07 final time.

Quote:
-standing still at the beginning of the fight makes prime lay a pool much faster. so don't move around at the beginning of the fight.


This seems still always different way where Prime start moved. I always stand my starting point, but im not still find logic about Prime moving.
You're not moving in and out of the pools nearly fast enough in that video. Compare to how quickly T3 moves in and out in his 0:55, at 1:16:20.



You need to be doing this pretty quickly A. to avoid draining the pool and B. to get in as many shots as possible in the 25 seconds you have.
Edit history:
MASTER-88: 2014-09-19 12:07:25 pm
Speedrunner
Thanks Paraxade. I got my first 3 pool fight ever: veryhappy_orig:. Okay its long way go for 2 pools yet. But i did first pool using same strategy like T3 video thats seems one reason why i always miss 3 pool fight. Though my 3 pool fight was really bad. Because boss moved onto his shield and change visor once. Cost good 30 seconds.

What ever i first time 3 pooled this. Its pretty clear 3 pool. Not easy task even 3 pooled. I´ll need much more consistent with this. I think this will be practice over and over. Probably never can reach 2 pool fight but quick 3 pool fight might be awesome one too. Most biggest trouble is got find Prime when pool appeared. This time i finally perfected 1st pool (nearly drain half his energy metter here) Two others went decent one.
Speedrunner
Finally good 3 pool fight 4-6 hours attempts with this only.


2 pool LOL. No way never. laugh new That was 15 seconds faster than my fight my 1:08 run. Its not still enought got 1:07 time probably requires me throw Ridley fly phase skip too. i probably have copy. I definitely not going start another segmented run beat my 1:08 which was my best Prime run ever.

This take me several years make 3 pool fight and today i make it twice. Those tips help me a lot.There is still many weird things and i always have really hard time find Prime when i change his visor. Moving seems just really random too.

I have to say thanks your tips guys. I might was stay 4 pools fight forever.
Quote from T3:
-positioning before prime lays a pool is critical. as soon as prime starts to roar approach the edge of the pool and turn 180 degrees. prime will always spawn above your head at whatever edge of the pool you happen to be standing at.
-shooting prime as soon as possible after he lays the pool is really important. you really don't want prime to escape your grasp at anytime and there's a half second window where he can escape if you don't fire immediately and get him under your control.


so question that just came to mind. If Prime always spawns in the same place and you can get him under control so he doesn't move, what's stopping a 2-pool without Thermal Visor from being feasible on console?
Edit history:
T3: 2014-09-21 06:53:00 pm
T3: 2014-09-21 06:51:14 pm
some of the phazon beam shots will miss if you're not locked-on even if you're aiming directly at prime (which means you do significantly less damage).