100% route (spoilers)

kirbymastah

2012-09-30 12:33:10 pm

Parax, would there be an easier way to get into that SW with screw attack?

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-10-02 05:09:28 pm

2012-10-02 04:23:50 pm

So far I'm trying out entering the SW in Piston Hall, and the plan is to go to Concourse, then to Concourse Ventilation. Getting high enough to get the missile tank shouldn't be a problem since the door from Concourse to Concourse Ventilation is near the top of Concourse Ventilation. It seems like you can get the SW entrance from Piston Hall consistent with some kind of setup... though for now it's practically random.

It doesn't seem too feasible to do this in a SS, because if you miss an aether jump and fall, then the run's basically over since the rooms are so huge. Then again, I suck at secret world stuff and wallcrawling, so it's probably just me. I honestly don't know if it's faster to do this or not (which is why I'm trying it out). And then after getting the missile tank, you're near the top of Concourse, so to go get seekers, it's probably faster to actually get seekers backwards since the elevator in Concourse isn't activated.

I really don't know if it's worth it (honestly, chances are, no, especially with my lack of skills at SWs), but... it's not so terribly out of the way? And it means you can clear east elysia in one visit?

Finally, parax's mines route: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslZuXQH4aI

It seems like it's useable in 100% as well, since there aren't any expansions in the path to nova beam that you're missing out on. This'll be great too. I've never tried this, so I don't know if it's viable in single-segment (especially given my lack of experience with SWs...), but definitely in a segmented 100% run. It saves so much time.

So far I'm trying out entering the SW in Piston Hall, and the plan is to go to Concourse, then to Concourse Ventilation. Getting high enough to get the missile tank shouldn't be a problem since the door from Concourse to Concourse Ventilation is near the top of Concourse Ventilation. It seems like you can get the SW entrance from Piston Hall consistent with some kind of setup... though for now it's practically random.

It doesn't seem too feasible to do this in a SS, because if you miss an aether jump and fall, then the run's basically over since the rooms are so huge. Then again, I suck at secret world stuff and wallcrawling, so it's probably just me. I honestly don't know if it's faster to do this or not (which is why I'm trying it out). And then after getting the missile tank, you're near the top of Concourse, so to go get seekers, it's probably faster to actually get seekers backwards since the elevator in Concourse isn't activated.

I really don't know if it's worth it (honestly, chances are, no, especially with my lack of skills at SWs), but... it's not so terribly out of the way? And it means you can clear east elysia in one visit?

Finally, parax's mines route: www.youtube.com/watch?v=XslZuXQH4aI

It seems like it's useable in 100% as well, since there aren't any expansions in the path to nova beam that you're missing out on. This'll be great too. I've never tried this, so I don't know if it's viable in single-segment (especially given my lack of experience with SWs...), but definitely in a segmented 100% run. It saves so much time.

rekameohs

2012-10-02 10:41:03 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

From my experience, the mines sw would be nearly impossible in a single segment.

Aruki

2012-10-08 07:51:06 am

That SW will not be any easier with Screw Attack. You basically just have to get on the sticky part, get up as high as possible without using your bomb, and bomb jump at the door to hit the transition.

There's a SW in Gearworks which is really, really easy to enter, but I don't remember how far from Concourse Ventilation it is; it's probably not feasible to use it and have it be faster.

As for the mines route, yeah, you should definitely be able to do that in a SS if you can get into the SW as the wallcrawl is pretty easy. The only tricky part is standing right on Nova, and even that's not too bad (I always walk in front of the door, then walk straight out while counting to 3; after I hit 3, I stop).

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2012-10-08 05:20:27 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-10-08 12:54:35 pm

kirbymastah: 2012-10-08 12:51:24 pm

2012-10-08 10:20:41 am

Yeah I've actually been trying out the Gearworks SW to get the missile tank. Chances are, it might actually be faster than doing the backtrack, but I suck way too much at SWs to try that out, so screw that.

The mines route, I definitely want to try out and practice, since it saves a few minutes and the wallcrawl doesn't look horrible. Is the basic idea to get enough height to clip at the top for SW16 or something like that? There isn't really an explanation on your youtube descriptions... Also, why do you morph on top of the first green door? Don't you just have to jump on it to load the next room <_< (is a noob at SWs) Any other tips for getting into the SW would be strongly appreciated :)

Thanks a lot!

Aruki

2012-10-14 05:22:24 pm

(sorry for all these late replies, I keep not thinking to look at this thread)

Phazon Quarry's SW is kind of a bitch to enter, you basically need to do a 2bsj followed by a screw attack. The 2bsj on its own doesn't get high enough to get out. The screw attack is also rather picky, you'll want to try to not move forward more than necessary because otherwise you'll just normally screw straight forward instead of doing the short one to the left that lets you get over the wall. Then after getting out you need to try to get away from the next room before you fall all the way down, otherwise you end up way below Phazon Quarry's standard and have to aether jump back up.

As for the door, that one actually won't transition unless you morph on it and roll off. That's the main reason it took me so long to figure out the wallcrawl was even possible.

MrSpEeDrUn

2012-10-29 08:32:04 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

how much damage does the laser at the end do ?

kirbymastah

2013-07-24 10:27:37 pm

BUMPITY BUMP

It turns out, parax's nova beam wallcrawl might not save time in 100%, and if it does, not as significant as any% =/

The reason is, when you spawn from the checkpoint, you can go ahead and immediately grab the energy cell and missile tank in phazon quarry. However, you can't go backwards from Drill shaft 2 to Main Cavern because of the one-way phazite gate or w/e =/ so to get the missile tank in phazon mine entry, you'll have to go around via mine lift and such (or you can wallcrawl AGAIN, but i seriously doubt that's actually faster <_< )

I'll do some timing things and post my results probably by tomorrow.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-25 06:10:00 pm

2013-07-25 06:09:17 pm

100% Route Change!

Current route in my 3:27

- Get Gearworks Missile Tank after getting ship missiles, before doing Berserker Lord Skip ~0:53
- During Elysia Cleanup, go to East Elysia, get Concourse Ventilation missile tank, go back to Landing Site a ~1:52

Total: 2:45

New route in question

- Don't get Gearworks missile tank until cleanup
- During Elysia Cleanup, go to East Elysia, get concourse ventilation missile tank, then get gearworks missile tank, then go to Landing Site B ~2:26

The new route saves roughly 20 in-game seconds. A big reason is because in the original route, you pretty much have to kill the two phazoids in concourse ventilation or else when you try to climb up the screw attack walls, you'll bonk off of them. In the new route, you don't have to kill them (though using the spider track with them attacking you is slightly riskier, but it's not toooo big of a deal).

The new route also takes out an extra "elevator" screen (going from east elysia back to landing site A), saving more real-time too.

100% Route Change!

[u]Current route in my 3:27[/u]

- Get Gearworks Missile Tank after getting ship missiles, before doing Berserker Lord Skip ~0:53
- During Elysia Cleanup, go to East Elysia, get Concourse Ventilation missile tank, go back to Landing Site a ~1:52

Total: 2:45

[u]New route in question[/u]

- Don't get Gearworks missile tank until cleanup
- During Elysia Cleanup, go to East Elysia, get concourse ventilation missile tank, then get gearworks missile tank, then go to Landing Site B  ~2:26

The new route saves roughly 20 in-game seconds. A big reason is because in the original route, you pretty much have to kill the two phazoids in concourse ventilation or else when you try to climb up the screw attack walls, you'll bonk off of them. In the new route, you don't have to kill them (though using the spider track with them attacking you is slightly riskier, but it's not toooo big of a deal).

The new route also takes out an extra "elevator" screen (going from east elysia back to landing site A), saving more real-time too.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-07-31 05:20:49 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-31 05:09:52 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-07-31 05:08:43 pm

2013-07-31 05:08:18 pm

Found an easy trick in flux control, I don't know why people never found this yet.

There's a missile tank in there that requires spider ball, and the track exits out right by where you enter the room from Command Courtyard. Simply BSJ against the wall near it, jump up to the ceiling and you'll instant morph; hold Z while doing this to stick to it and get the missile tank backwards. Saves ~10 seconds; I'm not sure if Command Courtyard's unload trigger is hit if you do this (it does if you do this the normal way). If it isn't hit, then it saves even more time.

(also there's apparently a grapple voltage switch behind that wall, accessed by the end of the spider track, to make an elevator. I never knew about this until now... <_<)

I was hoping to find a way to get the missile tank without spider ball to cut out this detour, but this trick still helps.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, I finally got around testing the current route I have after nova beam (aka get everything in mining center of PH vs. get the missile tank and energy cell in phazon quarry while on the way to leviathan, right before going to phaaze). The latter route ended up being 10 seconds faster in-game time, but of course, you have an extra trip with the train, which wastes a ton of RTA time. Of course this might not matter much if the nova beam wallcrawl comes into play, so uh... need to test that <_<

Found an easy trick in flux control, I don't know why people never found this yet.

There's a missile tank in there that requires spider ball, and the track exits out right by where you enter the room from Command Courtyard. Simply BSJ against the wall near it, jump up to the ceiling and you'll instant morph; hold Z while doing this to stick to it and get the missile tank backwards. Saves ~10 seconds; I'm not sure if Command Courtyard's unload trigger is hit if you do this (it does if you do this the normal way). If it isn't hit, then it saves even more time.

(also there's apparently a grapple voltage switch behind that wall, accessed by the end of the spider track, to make an elevator. I never knew about this until now... <_<)

I was hoping to find a way to get the missile tank without spider ball to cut out this detour, but this trick still helps.

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, I finally got around testing the current route I have after nova beam (aka get everything in mining center of PH vs. get the missile tank and energy cell in phazon quarry while on the way to leviathan, right before going to phaaze). The latter route ended up being 10 seconds faster in-game time, but of course, you have an extra trip with the train, which wastes a ton of RTA time. Of course this might not matter much if the nova beam wallcrawl comes into play, so uh... need to test that <_<

kirbymastah

2013-08-01 06:41:06 pm

Ok, not really a route change, but more of a confirmation.

When cleaning up the PH research area (and get hazard shield) after getting nova beam, you want to follow my video, as in, take the train to where you fought gandrayda, then use the elevator there. It's ~40 seconds faster than taking the forward route from the landing site.

rekameohs

2013-08-03 01:39:44 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Thanks for all of this. I totally want to try a 100% run soon since I don't think I've ever tried one in this game.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:38:27 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:37:10 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:33:07 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:31:44 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:31:04 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:30:29 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-03 10:29:24 am

2013-08-03 10:25:52 am

Yeah, the nova beam wallcrawl route is giving me a lot of trouble lately, I haven't gotten out of bounds in so long <___<

By default, using the wallcrawl for 100%, getting the phazon quarry missile tank + energy cell, then going through the three acid rain rooms (mine lift -> phazon harvesting -> drill shaft 1) then to the room with nova beam to make your way to the landing site should save around 1.5 minutes, though I didn't try it out; this is because the amount of time it saves would be how much faster the wallcrawl is over the pirate fight for nova beam (you haev to travel through the acid rain rooms regardless).

The thing I wanna test, though, is what if you wallcrawled from phazon quarry to drill shaft 2 to main cavern to phazon mine entry, then left the room transitioned on phazon mine entry and grabbed nova beam, then died? Would the checkpoint spawn you at phazon mine entry?

Do you have to die the moment you grab nova beam? or can you suicide after via corruption? Is it possible to do the former by getting on the skywalk of main cavern, entering hyper mode, then morphing on top of nova beam while corrupted and letting the item cutscene play out?

Can someone test this on moonjump or something?

If my idea works, then it'll save a crapton of time for 100% (as much time as it saves in any%, excluding the elysia detour to skip spider ball) since the route would basically be:

1. Phazon quarry OoB, wallcrawl to phazon mine entry, suicide on nova beam
2. Spawn in phazon mine entry, grab the missile tank there, immediately take off at Landing Site Charlie
3. After cleaning up the rest of the areas, just before going to Phaaze, land in Landing Site Charlie, go through main cavern, drill shaft 2, phazon quarry, grab the missile tank + energy cell, then take the transit to the command center and finish the endgame

It first, lets you skip the rooms with the acid rain, and it also lines up perfectly with the route I mentioned here:

Quote:

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, I finally got around testing the current route I have after nova beam (aka get everything in mining center of PH vs. get the missile tank and energy cell in phazon quarry while on the way to leviathan, right before going to phaaze). The latter route ended up being 10 seconds faster in-game time, but of course, you have an extra trip with the train, which wastes a ton of RTA time. Of course this might not matter much if the nova beam wallcrawl comes into play, so uh... need to test that <_<

I reeeeeally hope this works out, since I really don't want to do the nova beam wallcrawl if it only saves 1.5 minutes; it'll be huge for 100% if my idea works.

Yeah, the nova beam wallcrawl route is giving me a lot of trouble lately, I haven't gotten out of bounds in so long <___<

By default, using the wallcrawl for 100%, getting the phazon quarry missile tank + energy cell, then going through the three acid rain rooms (mine lift -> phazon harvesting -> drill shaft 1) then to the room with nova beam to make your way to the landing site should save around 1.5 minutes, though I didn't try it out; this is because the amount of time it saves would be how much faster the wallcrawl is over the pirate fight for nova beam (you haev to travel through the acid rain rooms regardless).

The thing I wanna test, though, is what if you wallcrawled from phazon quarry to drill shaft 2 to main cavern to phazon mine entry, then left the room transitioned on phazon mine entry and grabbed nova beam, then died? Would the checkpoint spawn you at phazon mine entry?

Do you have to die the moment you grab nova beam? or can you suicide after via corruption? Is it possible to do the former by getting on the skywalk of main cavern, entering hyper mode, then morphing on top of nova beam while corrupted and letting the item cutscene play out?

[u][b]Can someone test this on moonjump or something?[/b][/u]

If my idea works, then it'll save a crapton of time for 100% (as much time as it saves in any%, excluding the elysia detour to skip spider ball) since the route would basically be:

1. Phazon quarry OoB, wallcrawl to phazon mine entry, suicide on nova beam
2. Spawn in phazon mine entry, grab the missile tank there, immediately take off at Landing Site Charlie
3. After cleaning up the rest of the areas, just before going to Phaaze, land in Landing Site Charlie, go through main cavern, drill shaft 2, phazon quarry, grab the missile tank + energy cell, then take the transit to the command center and finish the endgame

It first, lets you skip the rooms with the acid rain, and it also lines up perfectly with the route I mentioned here:

[quote]

EDIT: Also forgot to mention, I finally got around testing the current route I have after nova beam (aka get everything in mining center of PH vs. get the missile tank and energy cell in phazon quarry while on the way to leviathan, right before going to phaaze). The latter route ended up being 10 seconds faster in-game time, but of course, you have an extra trip with the train, which wastes a ton of RTA time. Of course this might not matter much if the nova beam wallcrawl comes into play, so uh... need to test that <_<
[/quote]

I reeeeeally hope this works out, since I really don't want to do the nova beam wallcrawl if it only saves 1.5 minutes; it'll be huge for 100% if my idea works.

rekameohs

2013-08-03 03:13:10 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from kirbymastah:

The thing I wanna test, though, is what if you wallcrawled from phazon quarry to drill shaft 2 to main cavern to phazon mine entry, then left the room transitioned on phazon mine entry and grabbed nova beam, then died? Would the checkpoint spawn you at phazon mine entry?

My assumption is that getting Nova Beam automatically places you in Main Cavern.

Quote from kirbymastah:

Do you have to die the moment you grab nova beam? or can you suicide after via corruption? Is it possible to do the former by getting on the skywalk of main cavern, entering hyper mode, then morphing on top of nova beam while corrupted and letting the item cutscene play out?

If you suicide after getting Nova Beam, you respawn at the bottom of Main Cavern, just after you get the beam. I could test out dying as you collect the beam.

kirbymastah

2013-08-03 04:29:03 pm

Yeah, I'm not sure if hyper mode corruption timer goes on during cutscenes or not. If it does, and if the game spawns you at the checkpoint if you die "during" the cutscene via corruption, that would be great, and make the trick a lot easier too

rekameohs

2013-08-07 12:00:14 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Well, looks like you're in luck! You do indeed spawn back into Phazon Mine Entry. No need to die from the drill (I doubt it would ever do enough damage to kill you with all of the etanks you'll have anyway. It's only done maybe 2 max to me); corruption works.

That route really does seem pretty cool.

rekameohs

2013-08-07 12:02:13 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Also, messing with the event triggers really is hilarious in this game, especially in Elysia. A run with the Ghor after Ship Grapple route really would be fascinating, even if it would be absolute hell on wallcrawling.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-08-07 11:48:11 am

kirbymastah: 2013-08-07 10:15:15 am

2013-08-07 10:00:35 am

Sweet, that's great news! Thanks a lot rekameohs! :) I'm guessing you tested it when you got yourself corrupted, and let the nova beam cutscene play out so the corruption timer keeps going?

I'm motivated to practice the nova beam wallcrawl a lot more now, and since one of the two major hard parts isn't needed anymore (getting nova beam and the drill on you as the room loads), I just have to practice the SW entry itself! (which is harder than it sounds <_<)

So the nova beam route, to reiterate, is this:

1. Phazon Quarry, enter SW, wallcrawl through Phazon quarry -> Drill Shaft 2 -> Main Cavern -> Phazon Mine Entry
2. Keep game transitioned on Phazon Mine Entry, get on skywalk of Main Cavern, enter hyper mode and corrupt yourself, wait a bit, morph and fall on nova beam and let the cutscene play out so you die at the end of it
3. Spawn in Phazon Mine Entry. Get the missile tank here and go to Landing Site Charlie and take off there.

(do cleanup of PH research, demolition troop stuff, getting hyper grapple, and cleanup of bryyo+norion+valhalla)

4. Land in Landing Site Charlie, go through Phazon Mine Entry -> Main Cavern -> Drill Shaft 2 -> Phazon Quarry, get the energy cell + missile tank here, take the train back to PH command area and finish the game

I'll make a video eventually once I get back to pittsburgh

This saves not only almost as much time as it saves in any%, but it also ensures that getting the phazon quarry stuff on the way to the leviathan is even faster than getting them now, since you spawn in phazon mine entry!

Sweet, that's great news! Thanks a lot rekameohs! :) I'm guessing you tested it when you got yourself corrupted, and let the nova beam cutscene play out so the corruption timer keeps going?

I'm motivated to practice the nova beam wallcrawl a lot more now, and since one of the two major hard parts isn't needed anymore (getting nova beam and the drill on you as the room loads), I just have to practice the SW entry itself! (which is harder than it sounds <_<)

So the nova beam route, to reiterate, is this:

1. Phazon Quarry, enter SW, wallcrawl through Phazon quarry -> Drill Shaft 2 -> Main Cavern -> Phazon Mine Entry
2. Keep game transitioned on Phazon Mine Entry, get on skywalk of Main Cavern, enter hyper mode and corrupt yourself, wait a bit, morph and fall on nova beam and let the cutscene play out so you die at the end of it
3. Spawn in Phazon Mine Entry. Get the missile tank here and go to Landing Site Charlie and take off there.

(do cleanup of PH research, demolition troop stuff, getting hyper grapple, and cleanup of bryyo+norion+valhalla)

4. Land in Landing Site Charlie, go through Phazon Mine Entry -> Main Cavern -> Drill Shaft 2 -> Phazon Quarry, get the energy cell + missile tank here, take the train back to PH command area and finish the game

I'll make a video eventually once I get back to pittsburgh

This saves not only almost as much time as it saves in any%, but it also ensures that getting the phazon quarry stuff on the way to the leviathan is even faster than getting them now, since you spawn in phazon mine entry!

rekameohs

Edit history:

rekameohs: 2013-08-07 11:57:38 am

2013-08-07 11:57:18 am

Anywhere, everywhere

Quote from kirbymastah:

Sweet, that's great news! Thanks a lot rekameohs! :) I'm guessing you tested it when you got yourself corrupted, and let the nova beam cutscene play out so the corruption timer keeps going?

The cutscene does not keep the timer running. I would advise going into hypermode just as you transition the room to Phazon Mine Entry (an easy way to transition the room that I found is to roll off the side of the door in morph ball). This gives you enough time to climb the room, walk over to the Nova Beam, and fall onto it before you die.

kirbymastah

2013-08-07 02:08:21 pm

Wait so are you saying warping to Phazon Mine Entry works if you die after getting the nova beam? Or you have to die at exactly the same time? That would seem annoying to time; IIRC miles said that once you get corrupted, you have 5 seconds to expel phazon before dying, so that's helpful if the exact timing is necessary

regardless I'll be messing with it anyways

rekameohs

2013-08-07 04:19:15 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

Nah, you can die afterwards.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-08-11 09:49:50 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-08-11 09:29:29 pm

2013-08-11 09:28:45 pm

YES. I just did it. I can confirm what rekameohs said. This wallcrawl was very painful for me to do since I had no clue how to do it after transitioning to drill shaft 2, so it took me forever. But once faster methods of this wallcrawl are found, it'll definitely worth it.

Just one question for rekameohs (or anyone else who has wallcrawled to phazon mine entry before, for some reason). How do you get phazon mine entry to load? I can't seem to find the loading trigger for a while, and when I did, it was at the start of the hall right before the green door in Main Cavern, but I had to morph there, and then wiggle my way all the way to the aether (which wasted like a minute). I really hope there's a faster way to load it, preferably from the skywalk <___<

EDIT: Mainly want to bug someone with moonjump since, uh, trying this stuff out manually.. sucks... a lot ~~or maybe i should just get moonjump on my wii myself~~ Regardless this is highly appreciated :D

kirbymastah

2013-08-13 05:29:37 pm

Never mind. It's easy to load it from the aether

MLSTRM

Edit history:

MLSTRM: 2014-07-14 06:51:17 pm

2014-07-14 12:31:46 pm

Just a small optimisation I thought of the other day:
On Valhalla, since we only need 5 Energy Cells, and we enter with 7, get the one at the front of Valhalla docking bay on the way out, not on the way in towards the door lock. Only a couple of seconds, but it is pretty obvious XD

(EDIT: that didn't say etank honest :P )

kirbymastah

2014-07-14 02:57:14 pm

man, in 100%, I'd be worried if I entered valhalla with only 5 e-tanks ;P