100% route for segmented run

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-12 06:31:47 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-12 06:31:34 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-12 07:51:03 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-12 06:27:15 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-12 06:25:57 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-12 06:24:32 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-12 05:59:48 pm

2013-04-12 05:57:44 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

well theres 2 things i would like to talk about improving the 100% route.
1. like often mentioned doing sandigger after SJ to get to Dark beam early to skip the pirate base and to kill Dark samus later on with a power bomb that would lead to a few backtracks later on which i highly doubt are costing more time than the actual SW/the fast DS kill saves...
another problem here is much like in any% that you dont have the beam ammo, which would probably make quadraxis absolutely terrible, since you cant skip it. (maybe you can use Supers to destroy its knees here?)

2. much like in any% you can tecnically get the green translator in Torvus after collecting light suit to save the backtrack into the torvus temple.
so my idea is:
after going into torvus, to go into the dark world at forgotten bridge and to do a 3BSJ over the gate to get to Boost guardian early.
beside skipping the backtrack to the green translator it would take another probably faster route to boost guardian and you would have the boost ball earlier, which probably speeds up the grapple and the gravity boost section.
~~(oh well dont you need the green translator somewhere else in the game? erh, pls no)~~

ok so here i did some research: yes, after youre getting out of the sanctuary fortress theres a green translator door in the great temple blocking you. oh well, theres a lot of possibilities to get past that the question is what is the fastest way :/

you can probably go over the sunburst room, to clean up that section earlier, than you would normally do since you have screw attack to actually get it.

another way would be to go the way where the early power bomb is, which would be a pure backtrack because theres no item in your way to pick up.

maybe you can get into the great temple by doing a SW, much like miles does in his any% route, since theres no alpha splinter fight anymore that would probably be a problem, you probably would have to ceiling warp into it.

Thread title:

well theres 2 things i would like to talk about improving the 100% route.
1. like often mentioned doing sandigger after SJ to get to Dark beam early to skip the pirate base and to kill Dark samus later on with a power bomb that would lead to a few backtracks later on which i highly doubt are costing more time than the actual SW/the fast DS kill saves...
another problem here is much like in any% that you dont have the beam ammo, which would probably make quadraxis absolutely terrible, since you cant skip it. (maybe you can use Supers to destroy its knees here?)

2. much like in any% you can tecnically get the green translator in Torvus after collecting light suit to save the backtrack into the torvus temple.
so my idea is:
after going into torvus, to go into the dark world at forgotten bridge and to do a 3BSJ over the gate to get to Boost guardian early.
beside skipping the backtrack to the green translator it would take another probably faster route to boost guardian and you would have the boost ball earlier, which probably speeds up the grapple and the gravity boost section.
[s](oh well dont you need the green translator somewhere else in the game? erh, pls no)[/s]

ok so here i did some research: yes, after youre getting out of the sanctuary fortress theres a green translator door in the great temple blocking you. oh well, theres a lot of possibilities to get past that the question is what is the fastest way :/

you can probably go over the sunburst room, to clean up that section earlier, than you would normally do since you have screw attack to actually get it.

another way would be to go the way where the early power bomb is, which would be a pure backtrack because theres no item in your way to pick up.

maybe you can get into the great temple by doing a SW, much like miles does in his any% route, since theres no alpha splinter fight anymore that would probably be a problem, you probably would have to ceiling warp into it.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-13 01:20:06 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-13 01:19:54 pm

2013-04-13 01:18:21 pm

1. I still don't see sanddigger saving that time, because again you're moving into mining plaza to enter the SW (two room detour away from the pirate base) and then have to wallcrawl through those two same rooms again, plus sanddigger is a pain in the ass. Getting the missile tank in the morph ball tunnel will be an annoying backtrack in cleanup too, and will definitely take a chunk of time since the exit of the tunnel is closed (aka it's a two room detour out of the base and a two room detour into it to get the missile tank). Honestly the beam ammo expansion isn't the problem; you can easily get that on your way out of the pirate base in the first trip.

2. Doing boost ball early is silly. You're going to upper torvus to get boost ball, then going to lower torvus to get gravity+grapple, then back to upper to fight chykka. The current route goes to lower torvus then upper torvus, gets boost ball (which is kinda on the way to chykka) and then fights chykka. You're making an extra trip on upper torvus, which is a ton of wasted time.

1. I still don't see sanddigger saving that time, because again you're moving into mining plaza to enter the SW (two room detour away from the pirate base) and then have to wallcrawl through those two same rooms again, plus sanddigger is a pain in the ass. Getting the missile tank in the morph ball tunnel will be an annoying backtrack in cleanup too, and will definitely take a chunk of time since the exit of the tunnel is closed (aka it's a two room detour out of the base and a two room detour into it to get the missile tank). Honestly the beam ammo expansion isn't the problem; you can easily get that on your way out of the pirate base in the first trip.

2. Doing boost ball early is silly. You're going to upper torvus to get boost ball, then going to lower torvus to get gravity+grapple, then back to upper to fight chykka. The current route goes to lower torvus then upper torvus, gets boost ball (which is kinda on the way to chykka) and then fights chykka. You're making an extra trip on upper torvus, which is a ton of wasted time.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 02:00:24 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:55:08 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:49:07 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:36:44 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:36:42 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:35:23 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:33:40 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-13 01:32:13 pm

2013-04-13 01:30:49 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

theres absolutely no way getting the missile tank later costs more than 2 1/2 minutes and sandigger is not a pain in the ass at all.(he sometimes trolls but i rarely fail it more than 5 times)

getting the green translator wastes a ton of time. (its like 50 seconds RTA)
~~no in the normal route the boost ball is not on the way to chykka.~~ (well it kinda is to be honest) , but the way you take in the current route is about 20 seconds slower than the early boost ball route takes, the thing is that you have to take the backtrack to chykka later on, because boost ball is not on your way.
actually im 90% sure that you save at least 30 seconds by doing boost ball early, the only question is how much it costs later on.
(well you have to do a stupid 3bsj to get to boost ball early but its not that bad....)

and that the sandigger saves more than a minute is out of question.
still, i wonder why miles didnt use early boost ball/sandigger.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-13 06:30:05 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-13 06:29:31 pm

2013-04-13 06:28:00 pm

Getting that missile tank would not cost over 2 minutes, but the extra 2 room detour to go to mining plaza included would waste a lot of time. You're wallcrawling through 6 extra rooms; also, how do you get out of the pirate base since the wall is blocked off without scanning the post? If you scan the post before sanddigger, you're wasting even more time with the small detour.

Really, you'll have to manually time sanddigger to convince me, because honestly you're probably traveling through as many rooms without sanddigger as with sanddigger (maybe more with sanddigger). Have you actually tried out this theoretical route to see if it's viable?

Also about green translator, err what? In the original route, you go straight to chykka after boost guardian, because you already have grapple beam. So I still don't see how getting early boost ball can save any time whatsoever, and you lose a lot of time after sanctuary for not having emerald translator. Maybe I don't understand your route, but I'm convinced that the current route is the fastest possible merely because you're only making one trip for lower torvus and one for upper before chykka, rather than one for lower and two for upper...

"the thing is that you have to take the backtrack to chykka later on, because boost ball is not on your way." uh what backtrack...? There is never a backtrack to chykka...

EDIT: Oh, do you mean get boost ball before super missiles?

Getting that missile tank would not cost over 2 minutes, but the extra 2 room detour to go to mining plaza included would waste a lot of time. You're wallcrawling through 6 extra rooms; also, how do you get out of the pirate base since the wall is blocked off without scanning the post? If you scan the post before sanddigger, you're wasting even more time with the small detour.

Really, you'll have to manually time sanddigger to convince me, because honestly you're probably traveling through as many rooms without sanddigger as with sanddigger (maybe more with sanddigger). Have you actually tried out this theoretical route to see if it's viable?

Also about green translator, err what? In the original route, you go straight to chykka after boost guardian, because you already have grapple beam. So I still don't see how getting early boost ball can save any time whatsoever, and you lose a lot of time after sanctuary for not having emerald translator. Maybe I don't understand your route, but I'm convinced that the current route is the fastest possible merely because you're only making one trip for lower torvus and one for upper before chykka, rather than one for lower and two for upper...

"the thing is that you have to take the backtrack to chykka later on, because boost ball is not on your way." uh what backtrack...? There is never a backtrack to chykka...

EDIT: Oh, do you mean get boost ball before super missiles?

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-14 03:14:29 pm

2013-04-14 03:14:01 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

yes i meant getting boost ball before super missiles.
well you could scan the post after getting Bombs and get to sandigger after SJ through the portal chamber.
but bombjumping up to the scanpost sounds pretty slow.
still, theres no way that sandigger is slower. it doesnt take 2 minutes to go through like 3 or 4 extra rooms, i mean you can kill quadraxis in 2 minutes, would you go through 4 rooms or kill quadraxis? so yeah....

Quote:

You're wallcrawling through 6 extra rooms;

- yes, youre doing that in any% aswell.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-14 05:01:39 pm

2013-04-14 05:00:56 pm

No, my point with the extra wallcrawling rooms is that in the normal route, you're in mining station A and you go straight to the pirate base, whereas with sanddigger, you go to mining station A (also scan the post first and the missile tank), mining station access, then mining plaza, get OoB, then wallcrawl through mining plaza, mining station access, and mining station A. You have to take into account the extra trip it takes to go to mining plaza and also return to mining station A... <_<

Your example with quadraxis really isn't the same. You're traveilng through those same 4 rooms whether you're skipping or fighting quadraxis, but you're wallcrawling through extra rooms with sanddigger SW than not wallcrawling at all.

Maybe it could save time. But I seriously doubt it'll save 2-3 minutes like in any%, because of that extra backtrack plus missing the missile tank.

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-04-14 05:35:06 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

the extra trip is very small compared to the time saved.

kirbymastah

2013-04-14 05:35:45 pm

I'm pretty sure the extra trip is at least a minute... I won't be convinced unless someone actually tests it

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-04-14 06:15:36 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

1 minute, are you serious?
even if - doing sandigger is defenitly worth it, unless theres a major problem with dark samus later in the route, or a problem im missing right now.

kirbymastah

2013-04-14 06:31:22 pm

Well you should try timing it and see what happens?

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 10:28:58 am

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 10:11:33 am

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 10:10:56 am

2013-04-24 10:10:13 am

I timed sanddigger vs no sanddigger starting from finishing scanning the post in Mining Station A, in-game time, and up until acquisition of the dark beam.

Sanddigger took roughly 5:00, skipping the dark samus fight and ceiling warping into Main Reactor, by where dark beam is. There were no cutscenes or anything to pause on. I didn't time all the fails I did doing sanddigger and falling down, so my timing should be reasonably accurate.

Miles's 100% run on SDA roughly took 5:10, including the dark samus fight. I decided to pause my timer when he scanned the posts to lower the platforms in the tower room, since his run does not use the trick to scan the post to let the platform carry you up.

Conclusion: It is not worth doing sanddigger. My timing was very generous TOWARDS sanddigger, and not to mention, sanddigger route didn't even get the beam ammo nor the missile tank in Command Center, so it loses even more time against the standard route.

I expected it to save a little time, but I didn't expect it to actually be slower.

Also, FYI the extra aforementioned trip to go to where sanddigger is from and to mining station A takes about a minute, maybe slightly less. Transitioning from mining station A is a bit more annoying since the gate is up, wasting more time.

I timed sanddigger vs no sanddigger starting from finishing scanning the post in Mining Station A, in-game time, and up until acquisition of the dark beam.

Sanddigger took roughly 5:00, skipping the dark samus fight and ceiling warping into Main Reactor, by where dark beam is. There were no cutscenes or anything to pause on. I didn't time all the fails I did doing sanddigger and falling down, so my timing should be reasonably accurate.

Miles's 100% run on SDA roughly took 5:10, including the dark samus fight. I decided to pause my timer when he scanned the posts to lower the platforms in the tower room, since his run does not use the trick to scan the post to let the platform carry you up.

Conclusion: It is not worth doing sanddigger. My timing was very generous TOWARDS sanddigger, and not to mention, sanddigger route didn't even get the beam ammo nor the missile tank in Command Center, so it loses even more time against the standard route.

I expected it to save a little time, but I didn't expect it to actually be slower.

Also, FYI the extra aforementioned trip to go to where sanddigger is from and to mining station A takes about a minute, maybe slightly less. Transitioning from mining station A is a bit more annoying since the gate is up, wasting more time.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-24 11:03:42 am

2013-04-24 11:02:58 am

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

you cant compete with miles.
how can sandigger be possibly slower?
it just doesnt make sence at all theres just no way.
ill try it myself to proof it i guess.
ill upload a splitscreen of it once im not too lazy about it.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:14:16 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:13:21 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:12:32 pm

2013-04-24 12:12:03 pm

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

you cant compete with miles.

Um, even if my wallcrawling isn't as good, I know I didn't lose over 30 seconds over typical because I accounted for my own mistakes. Even if miles did it, you'd still lose over 30 seconds in my timing tests from having to get the missile tank and beam ammo expansion, since the standard route already got them before dark beam. AND the standard route already defeated dark samus, whereas sanddigger didn't fight sanddigger in my timing tests yet (which will take some time later on anyways). So yeah, my timing for sanddigger is honestly VERY GENEROUS.

If you're so insistent about proving it's faster, then yeah, upload a video and test it yourself. But this are my timing results, accounting for in-game time. You're the one who's insistent about proving it's faster anyways <_< It probably takes a bit longer for the standard route for RTA because you scan many more things and there are some cutscenes you skip (still an extra second or two in RTA by skipping).

[quote="MrSpEeDrUn"]you cant compete with miles.[/quote]

Um, even if my wallcrawling isn't as good, I know I didn't lose over 30 seconds over typical because I accounted for my own mistakes. Even if miles did it, you'd still lose over 30 seconds in my timing tests from having to get the missile tank and beam ammo expansion, since the standard route already got them before dark beam. AND the standard route already defeated dark samus, whereas sanddigger didn't fight sanddigger in my timing tests yet (which will take some time later on anyways). So yeah, my timing for sanddigger is honestly VERY GENEROUS.

If you're so insistent about proving it's faster, then yeah, upload a video and test it yourself. But this are my timing results, accounting for in-game time. You're the one who's insistent about proving it's faster anyways <_< It probably takes a bit longer for the standard route for RTA because you scan many more things and there are some cutscenes you skip (still an extra second or two in RTA by skipping).

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:43:22 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:42:57 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:28:41 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:27:21 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-04-24 12:26:56 pm

2013-04-24 12:26:45 pm

I retimed sanddigger following your wallcrawling strats, and I retimed it to be roughly 4:20 (again, I paused my timer VERY OFTEN to OVER-COMPENSATE for my mistakes, so this is a generous estimate), so AT BEST you can save one minute by acquisition of dark beam, NOT TAKING INTO ACCOUNT THAT YOU HAVE TO REGRAB THE BEAM AMMO, MISSILE TANK, AND FIGHT DARK SAMUS. So basically, it doesn't save enough time for it to be worth it.

EDIT: Timed it a third time, this time on stream. I over-compensated for my mistakes, and I got roughly 4:17 (so in reality, it's higher than that if I timed out my mistakes perfectly). FYI, I ended the timing on miles's standard route upon full acquisition of dark beam, so add on about 4-5 seconds to 4:17 to get 4:20ish.

Yeah. not worth it.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-15 08:06:39 am

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-24 02:13:44 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-04-24 02:11:20 pm

2013-04-24 02:11:12 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

on the right side was miles 100% part till dark beam supposed to be.

actually it doesnt even nearly save as much time as i thought cause of the amount of cutscenes in pirate base.
also the new strats are making it a lot faster so it only saves like 50 seconds and in the end it probably doesnt save any time at all cause of the backtracks later on.
and theres the backtracks before it and you dont have the beam ammo when doing sandigger ect.

-----------------

so sandigger saves time in 100%!!!!

~~its probably faster in real time but defenitly not ingame.~~

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 07:34:38 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 01:41:32 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 01:38:21 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 01:33:15 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 12:09:04 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 12:03:30 pm

2013-12-08 12:01:32 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

anyways, i started being interested in running 100% segmented so, i will probably need to discuss about the route again.
so research i did:

~~early boost ball in torvus:~~ (not gonna happen, cause i dont go the path over temple grounds)

the orange arrow means that you got boost ball in that tunnel when you get it early (probably saves like a second...)

the normal route takes roughly 35 seconds.
the early boost ball route takes around 53 seconds.

but you have boost ball for a while when you get it early, obvously
and it gets even more complicated, because im not sure if its worth it to take the green translator early, or to get it later, when you accuire light suit.
so here is another rough estimate of all the boosts you get ( also youre getting grapple beam at the end of the game during the cleanup, yes you do the GA jump in 100% segmented...)
so
1 second boosting through the tunnel instead of rolling, before the pirate fight
(~3.5 seconds if you get the green translator)
3 seconds, section where you get the e tank
1 second
(1 second if youre not getting the translator, because of the door)
so i came to the result that you save a total of
8 seconds in the lower torvus part, if you dont do the grapple beam section, it would be a lot more if you get it normally, so you should probably be getting early boost ball in a single segment, unless you skip grapple beam earlier on.

so 53-16.5 if you dont skip the green translator (36.5 secs)
and 53-14.5 if you skip the green translator (38.5 secs)

kay, so lets say we've got an estimation of running around (taking out the fights in it ect.) of 38 secs if you get boost early
and 35 if you get it later, so well, those are really close together though, so its probably a good idea to time it?...
getting boost early would probably be faster, if you dont skip grapple beam in beforehand. so if youre good at the BSJ to boost early and dont have issues otherwise with that. think about getting it....

skipping the green translator:

would be awesome, cause it saves 50 secs not to get it (well ~46.5 if you get boost ball early) Edit: its less, i didnt factor out the cutscenes
problem: later in the run is a green translator door (before you get light suit in the great temple....)
so hopefully theres another way for that?...
also, if you dont get boost ball early, you'd be forced to go around the gate which is located in the super missiles room, so you probably have to get early boost anyway.

also: what about doing GA in the run? i dont think it'd affect the route if you dont have grapple does it?
and how would that change the later torvus cleanup?

and, o well, doing sandigger... i'll probably do some research about it again, kirbymastah already mentioned a couple times that is slower, but ill just check it myself again to be sure i guess.

then there was this that i found:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bigbfcYLUgI

luckly, the thing that you bomb afterwards is undestructable for some reason, if you didnt finish up the pirate fight, and no its not cause that thing in the foreground is blocking it off somehow. so yeah, you cannot skip that pirate fight.

sandigger....

ok heres the route i'll use in my segmented run:get bombs, open the door with that stupid scanpoint get SJ, go from portal chamber to the savestation (nice for a segmented run cause its right on your way), get dark beam with sandigger (probably is around 20 secs slower than triggering the DS fight with optimized strats)
light beam
beam ammo (you can actually skip the pirate fight for this)

getting the beam ammo takes approx. 7 5 seconds, getting the missile expansion in the maze around 35

sandigger saves around 1:50 seconds with the strat that goes around dark samus, (that includes the trick that saves 12 seconds at the platforms) power bombing dark samus ~30 secs (probably more)
so yeah, it saves around 1:38.
theres probably at most a 15 secs loss, cause you have to take for scanning the scan point(random rough estimate probably less) , and around 5-10 secs (hard to tell) loss cause you have to get to sandigger...
so sandigger saves ~1:13 minutes, and also its nice for a segmented run cause theres a savestation on the way.

anyways, i started being interested in running 100% segmented so, i will probably need to discuss about the route again.
so research i did:

[s][b]early boost ball in torvus:[/b][/s] (not gonna happen, cause i dont go the path over temple grounds)
[img]http://img854.imageshack.us/img854/6016/dmq0.png[/img]
the orange arrow means that you got boost ball in that tunnel when you get it early (probably saves like a second...)

[color="blue"]the normal route takes roughly 35 seconds.[/color]
[color="green"]the early boost ball route takes around 53 seconds.[/color]

but you have boost ball for a while when you get it early, obvously
and it gets even more complicated, because im not sure if its worth it to take the green translator early, or to get it later, when you accuire light suit.
so here is another rough estimate of all the boosts you get ( also youre getting grapple beam at the end of the game during the cleanup, yes you do the GA jump in 100% segmented...)
so
1 second boosting through the tunnel instead of rolling, before the pirate fight
(~3.5 seconds if you get the green translator)
3 seconds, section where you get the e tank
1 second
(1 second if youre not getting the translator, because of the door)
so i came to the result that you save a total of
8 seconds in the lower torvus part, if you dont do the grapple beam section, it would be a lot more if you get it normally, so you should probably be getting early boost ball in a single segment, unless you skip grapple beam earlier on.

so 53-16.5 if you dont skip the green translator (36.5 secs)
and 53-14.5 if you skip the green translator (38.5 secs)

kay, so lets say we've got an estimation of running around (taking out the fights in it ect.) of 38 secs if you get boost early
and 35 if you get it later, so well, those are really close together though, so its probably a good idea to time it?...
getting boost early would probably be faster, if you dont skip grapple beam in beforehand. so if youre good at the BSJ to boost early and dont have issues otherwise with that. think about getting it....

[b]skipping the green translator:[/b]

would be awesome, cause it saves 50 secs not to get it (well ~46.5 if you get boost ball early) Edit: its less, i didnt factor out the cutscenes
problem: later in the run is a green translator door (before you get light suit in the great temple....)
so hopefully theres another way for that?...
also, if you dont get boost ball early, you'd be forced to go around the gate which is located in the super missiles room, so you probably have to get early boost anyway.

also: what about doing GA in the run? i dont think it'd affect the route if you dont have grapple does it?
and how would that change the later torvus cleanup?

and, o well, doing sandigger... i'll probably do some research about it again, kirbymastah already mentioned a couple times that is slower, but ill just check it myself again to be sure i guess.

then there was this that i found:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bigbfcYLUgI[/url]

luckly, the thing that you bomb afterwards is undestructable for some reason, if you didnt finish up the pirate fight, and no its not cause that thing in the foreground is blocking it off somehow. so yeah, you cannot skip that pirate fight.

[b]sandigger....[/b]

ok heres the route i'll use in my segmented run:get bombs, open the door with that stupid scanpoint get SJ,  go from portal chamber to the savestation (nice for a segmented run cause its right on your way), get dark beam with sandigger (probably is around 20 secs slower than triggering the DS fight with optimized strats)
light beam
beam ammo (you can actually skip the pirate fight for this)

getting the beam ammo takes approx. [s]7[/s] 5 seconds, getting the missile expansion in the maze around 35

sandigger saves around 1:50 seconds with the strat that goes around dark samus, (that includes the trick that saves 12 seconds at the platforms) power bombing dark samus ~30 secs (probably more)
so yeah, it saves around 1:38.
theres probably at most a 15 secs loss, cause you have to take for scanning the scan point(random rough estimate probably less) , and around 5-10 secs (hard to tell) loss cause you have to get to sandigger...
so sandigger saves ~1:13 minutes, and also its nice for a segmented run cause theres a savestation on the way.

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-08 01:16:37 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-12-08 01:13:36 pm

2013-12-08 01:12:13 pm

I don't think I said sandigger was slower, but it doesn't save close as much time as you measured (especially since when you timed it, you included cutscene skipping <_< ). I don't remember but it's easily less than a minute saved, not taking into account bactracking for the missile tank and beam ammo expansion.

Also you'd always want to get grapple beam in lower torvus since it's kinda on the way out after the lower torvus key anyways; going to the grapple guardian room during cleanup would be really far out of the way since you never go to the dark world in lower torvus cleanup outside of PB guardian and the sky temple key

EDIT: If you skipped emerald translator, that would also mean you can't go to sanctuary fortress directly from GFMC Compound unless you decided to not get the missile launcher twice. And the extra 5 missiles save a LOT of time early on, so you're going to want to do the 101% trick.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 01:47:41 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 01:43:55 pm

2013-12-08 01:35:39 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

i dont see how 5 missiles at the beginning save very much time, probably like 3 seconds (or less) on the alpha splinter fight, otherwise for a segmented run?.... probably nothing more.

having 5 additional missiles throughout the entire run in a single segment is probably nice though... idk

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:13:48 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:13:29 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:03:16 pm

2013-12-08 02:02:07 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

was just thinking about doing sandigger twice to get to torvus early, would be a huge timesave (probably like 3 minutes?) (especially cause you cannot get seekers in 100% at that point) but... oh well theres the boost guardian wonder if it'd be worth it, you dont need PB's for grapple guardian, because you skip it anyway.

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 03:08:12 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:32:29 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:13:33 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:12:27 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:07:09 pm

2013-12-08 02:06:51 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=VB8gNVenEkQ#t=63

.... oh.... maybe i should get dark suit, huh

okay, can someone tell me if its possible to kill boost guardian with only 3 tanks and without dark suit? i doubt it =/
looks like i have to get dark suit then.

ok: lets just completely change the route then:
bombs, open scandoor, do sandigger for dark beam, light beam, agon key 1, 2, spacejump, dark suit sandigger to torvus. anyways, youre getting the beam ammo later in the run then... or ... uuh wait help me someone what do i do about the beam ammo i dont have space jump :(

MaskedKirby

Edit history:

MaskedKirby: 2013-12-08 05:51:49 pm

2013-12-08 02:28:08 pm

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

ok, I got an idea for segmented 100% too. when you reach lower Torvus, could doing this instead of the Underwater Dashes save some time ?

http://www.genericgamer.com/MP2/Wiki/SaveStationB_SWentrance.mp4

after that you get Gravity Boost, go into Dark world, get the chykka key, Grapple and go to light world

Skipping the early PB would cost a ton of time in sanctuary (you can't get the Sky Temple Key after Spider, you can't fight DS2 and some other stuff I probably forgot about), however there's the PB you could get in Transit Station, but It's a big detour.

one last Thing: Mister, if you want to show your routes on a map, consider using these http://metroid.retropixel.net/mprime2/maps.php

MrSpEeDrUn

Edit history:

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 03:08:01 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:37:41 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:35:00 pm

MrSpEeDrUn: 2013-12-08 02:34:53 pm

2013-12-08 02:34:37 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

ok. this is getting insane.
also, i can get the early PB after beating the dark missile trooper Dancing

also (oh no im so sad) no i cannot do that SW and fight grapple, because i dont have PB's at that point and it would take like 3 minutes getting them, also screw that SW its way too precise.

i dont think you can get back up if you do that SW and it would probably block you off somewhere later in the run though.

MaskedKirby

2013-12-08 04:45:54 pm

Arbitrary MP2 categories only !

you can't get up from Gravity Boost in light world, but in Dark world it is possible.
I was suggesting this route for a route where you have PBs

MrSpEeDrUn

2013-12-08 05:06:59 pm

MP2 also a bit MP1 speedrunning

yeah, so i would skip PB's for now cause it takes like more than 3 minutes to get them...
just trying the no SJ stuff in agon, god fuck those.... idk if i'll ever finish those segments.....
the thing is... i have to do that one really really annoying bombjump after sandigger :(

kirbymastah

Edit history:

kirbymastah: 2013-12-08 06:52:40 pm

kirbymastah: 2013-12-08 06:52:29 pm

2013-12-08 06:50:28 pm

Quote from MrSpEeDrUn:

i dont see how 5 missiles at the beginning save very much time, probably like 3 seconds (or less) on the alpha splinter fight, otherwise for a segmented run?.... probably nothing more.

having 5 additional missiles throughout the entire run in a single segment is probably nice though... idk

Those five missiles help a lot more than you think <_< Mini-splinter, alpha splinter fight, dark pirates before jump guardian, jump guardian itself, most of the pirate fights in agon base and dark samus (though pirate fights won't matter much if you do sandigger).

Also boost guardian, no dark suit, 3 e-tanks, no PB is easily possible (but annoyingly hard)

http://www.metroid2002.com/echoes/boss_tricks_boost_guardian.php

On the m2k2 website itself Dancing