What is the natural collection route?

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2007-09-04 04:45:32 pm

Every Bit Counts

It may sound like a noobish question, but I have sequence broke the game so much, I can't remember.

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072:

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072

2007-09-04 05:12:55 pm

coral to complement blue

Morphball, Missiles, Bombs, Charge Beam, Super Missiles, High Jump, Varia Suit, Speed Booster, Ice Beam, Spazer, Power Bombs, Grapple, Wave Beam, Gravity Suit, Space Jump, Plasma, Springball, Screw Attack.

Of course, items like Spazer, Wave Beam, and Springball don't actually have a specific time in the route, since they aren't at all needed.

Gaius_4:

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Gaius_4

2007-09-04 05:23:13 pm

Quote from 072:

Of course, items like Spazer, Wave Beam, and Springball don't actually have a specific time in the route, since they aren't at all needed.

What about using the Wave Beam to get through some gates? aiwebs_016

arkarian:

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arkarian

2007-09-04 05:33:26 pm

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Wouldn't that be Sequence Breaking?

Fano7:

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Fano7

2007-09-04 06:39:56 pm

Every Bit Counts

Quote from 072:

Morphball, Missiles, Bombs, Charge Beam, Super Missiles, High Jump, Varia Suit, Speed Booster, Ice Beam, Spazer, Power Bombs, Grapple, Wave Beam, Gravity Suit, Space Jump, Plasma, Springball, Screw Attack.

Is this the route the develpores wanted you to take?

072:

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072

2007-09-04 06:47:08 pm

coral to complement blue

Sorta... that was the standard "obvious" path that they made, but they weren't like Retro Studios; they purposefully gave players the freedom to come up with new routes.

arkarian:

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arkarian

2007-09-04 09:26:17 pm

mindfulness

fully erect

Edited "Spoilers" out of the topic title. It's Super "Mr. 1994" Metroid, dumbass.

Chanoire:

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Chanoire

2007-09-04 10:29:06 pm

Quote from Gaius_4:

Quote from 072:

Of course, items like Spazer, Wave Beam, and Springball don't actually have a specific time in the route, since they aren't at all needed.

What about using the Wave Beam to get through some gates? aiwebs_016

Pretty sure it's never needed to complete the game; there are just some route choices that use it, like returning to green/pink Brinstar, and/or some items that require it, like an e-tank in pink Brinstar.

I don't have the map in front of me, but my recollection is that a reasonable argument can be made for the wave beam being the next item after grapple because after getting grapple and exiting Crocomire's room you can go to the right through some longish grapple-intensive rooms that will end up in going through a blue gate fairly close to the wave beam, which you would need to return back through those rooms and see what you missed without getting wave to reenter the door. Or something like that. I know I used the placement of that specific door to argue something of the sort (though come to think of it, it might have been the opposite case, that it's evidence of expected sequence-breaking with regards to early wave). Of course, if you go up from Crocomire's room rather than to the right, you'll miss that part of Norfair entirely, though you might pick up wave just before or after Lower Norfair.

Also, while spring ball isn't required, the only thing that might be questionable about its placement in the "normal" route is whether it's before or after plasma, since both grapple and space jump are required for it. Spazer could be gotten at any point after high jump; it's not that out of the way to get before varia and the rest of upper Norfair, and doesn't require any of those items.

X-ray scope seems to have been omitted. It only "requires" grapple to get, so would probably logically be right before gravity suit, regardless of whether wave has been collected.

And Mister 1994, Ark?

[quote="Gaius_4"][quote="072"]Of course, items like Spazer, [u]Wave Beam[/u], and Springball don't actually have a specific time in the route, since they aren't at all needed.[/quote]What about using the Wave Beam to get through some gates?  [aiwebs_016][/quote]
Pretty sure it's never needed to complete the game; there are just some route choices that use it, like returning to green/pink Brinstar, and/or some items that require it, like an e-tank in pink Brinstar.

I don't have the map in front of me, but my recollection is that a reasonable argument can be made for the wave beam being the next item after grapple because after getting grapple and exiting Crocomire's room you can go to the right through some longish grapple-intensive rooms that will end up in going through a blue gate fairly close to the wave beam, which you would need to return back through those rooms and see what you missed without getting wave to reenter the door.  Or something like that.  I know I used the placement of that specific door to argue something of the sort (though come to think of it, it might have been the opposite case, that it's evidence of expected sequence-breaking with regards to early wave).  Of course, if you go up from Crocomire's room rather than to the right, you'll miss that part of Norfair entirely, though you might pick up wave just before or after Lower Norfair.

Also, while spring ball isn't required, the only thing that might be questionable about its placement in the "normal" route is whether it's before or after plasma, since both grapple and space jump are required for it.  Spazer could be gotten at any point after high jump; it's not that out of the way to get before varia and the rest of upper Norfair, and doesn't require any of those items.

X-ray scope seems to have been omitted.  It only "requires" grapple to get, so would probably logically be right before gravity suit, regardless of whether wave has been collected.

And [i]Mister[/i] 1994, Ark?

arkarian:

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arkarian

2007-09-04 10:57:12 pm

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Sure, games are male in my mind. Consoles are female.

Tahngarthor:

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Tahngarthor

2007-09-04 11:52:29 pm

Bangaa Bishop

uh, spring ball after space jump is natural? Even the first time I beat the game I wall jumped up that shaft to get the spring ball. lol :D

Chanoire:

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Chanoire

2007-09-05 03:24:33 am

Yes, the inevitable chorus of "but I did X, Y, and Z on my first playthrough, I'm so leet!" Yawn. In every thread like this there has to be at least one person trying to show off how special he was, because clearly that's more important than actually answering the question posed.

I seem to recall it being rather a pain in the neck to get through those sandy areas before the spring ball without the space jump. Not impossible, by any means, but still suggesting that the space jump is a preferred piece of equipment for that bit of exploration.

Fano7:

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Fano7

2007-09-05 03:55:04 pm

Every Bit Counts

Quote from Arkarian:

Edited "Spoilers" out of the topic title. It's Super "Mr. 1994" Metroid, dumbass.

I forgot.

I'm just usted to the Metroid Prime 3 area. Sorry. ](*,) #-o ](*,)

Izo:

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Izo

2007-09-05 04:40:14 pm

soaking through

Quote from Arkarian:

Edited "Spoilers" out of the topic title. It's Super "Mr. 1994" Metroid, dumbass.

Woah there, man. Calling someone a dumbass for a harmless mistake is not cool, especially with the big focus on spoilers at the moment. That's not forum management; that's going too far.

Gaius_4:

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Gaius_4

2007-09-05 05:35:18 pm

Plus he's (? -right) a Newbie. That reminds me of this kid I once knew. He was saying; "Little Kids are so stupid." Rolling Eyes

I'm sure he could take a little kid in a fist fight anyday. 8-)

Back on topic... The gate I was mainly thinking about was the one that is in the room to the left (west) of the long room where you have to speed-dash to get through the speed blocks and bugs.

If you get it early - yes. That's sort of a sequence break. But if you get it anyway later (after the grapple beam) and then use it on that particular gate... er... Well, that's why I was more or less disagreeing that it was unneeded. Unless (whoever's playing the game) wants to go around the long way. But I guess that's up to them.

Oh, and sorry if I said anything to offend anyone. I just hate to see any bitterness going 'round. aiwebs_008

edit: Also, general (yes, maybe -useless) info. -vs- complaints about said useless info. Which is worse? I dunno. :P

072:

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072

2007-09-05 05:51:14 pm

coral to complement blue

If you're talking about the beginning of Norfair, the only gate there is a Super Missile gate.

Gaius_4:

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Gaius_4

2007-09-05 06:19:40 pm

This.

attachment:

Super Metroid (JU)027.png

072:

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072

2007-09-05 06:24:26 pm

coral to complement blue

Going through there is longer. Its only real purpose is to take you to a missile expansion, IIRC.

BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2007-09-05 06:41:37 pm

If going from wave beam to Crocamire, which is what I think he's saying, that gate is definitely the shortest way.

072:

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072

2007-09-05 06:49:05 pm

coral to complement blue

...Oh. Then I guess I don't recall correctly.

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Electrometer Prime

2007-09-05 08:16:57 pm

Yes, getting Speed Boost then wave, then going through said gate for crocomire and Powerbombs and Grapple, you can pretty much get every Norfair item except Screw Attack in one fell swoop if you wanted to :/

Chanoire:

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Chanoire

2007-09-05 08:36:40 pm

Oh, right, that's what my argument was concerning that gate: that it indicated that getting wave beam early was an intentional, planned-for sequence break, because otherwise that gate is entirely pointless, as if you got wave after grapple there's no reason to go back through it. Which, um, is about the opposite of what I said earlier. D'oh.