Super Metroid - Reverse Boss Order / Suitless Cyborg Run

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2005-12-11 03:03:18 am

I decided to record a Reverse Boss Order/Suitless Speedrun since there are no movies for this kind of run as far as I know (probably because its the by far most difficult run to pull off on this game).

I have to note that I use tools to optimize every move which allows me to cut down the time below 1 hour or even 50 min for this mode. For that I decided to skip all Mini Bosses (except Botwoon who is unskipable) and even some other free Energy Tanks which would cost me some detour time on the way to Ridley.

I calculated that I will only have 80 sec or less to kill Ridley before the heat kills me. I will use 2 Crystal Flashes in Lower Norfair (one after the big Lava Room before Lower Norfair and the other just before Ridley). The energy tanks before and after Ridley will also be insanely usefull to refill my energy.

I will also skip the entire Maridia and it's Super Missiles/Energy Tanks before Ridley to save alot of time because of the very slow moving in the water. Furthermore I will also skip the Plasma.

The most important thing now is to plan the route exactly, first priority is to get the wave beam and the speed booster to make the Brinstar and Crateria clean-up in one turn later. I risk to take this 2 items in Norfair with only 2 Energy Tanks and 1 Reserve Tank during the heat. Sounds crazy but is indeed possible :-)

I also made a small Demo of some interesting parts to demonstrate the Speed and the way to get to Norfair with this 2 Tanks as a small teaser.

http://rapidshare.de/files/8967497/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi.html

Mirrors:
http://spjclan.com/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi
http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi

Thanks alot to StarmanHaxor and Andrew Mills for the Mirrors!

Further Demos:

2nd Teaser until 3rd Power Bomb Pack in old Brinstar.
http://rapidshare.de/files/10490435/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_2.avi.html
Mirror: http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_Speed_Demo2.avi (Thanks to Andrew Mills)

3rd Teaser completing the entire Lower Norfair and beating Ridley!
http://rapidshare.de/files/29925902/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_3.avi.html
Mirror: http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_3.avi

I hope the route I choose is the most rational one, if someone thinks I have missed something or want to suggest a maybe better route, lets hear it.

I also want to thank Maur for giving me the idea once to make this insane run. I hope you guys will like it when it is done.

Thread title:

I decided to record a Reverse Boss Order/Suitless Speedrun since there are no movies for this kind of run as far as I know (probably because its the by far most difficult run to pull off on this game).

I have to note that I use [url=http://bisqwit.iki.fi/nesvideos/WhyAndHow.html]tools[/url] to optimize every move which allows me to cut down the time below 1 hour or even 50 min for this mode. For that I decided to skip all Mini Bosses (except Botwoon who is unskipable) and even some other free Energy Tanks which would cost me some detour time on the way to Ridley.

I calculated that I will only have 80 sec or less to kill Ridley before the heat kills me. I will use 2 Crystal Flashes in Lower Norfair (one after the big Lava Room before Lower Norfair and the other just before Ridley). The energy tanks before and after Ridley will also be insanely usefull to refill my energy.

I will also skip the entire Maridia and it's Super Missiles/Energy Tanks before Ridley to save alot of time because of the very slow moving in the water. Furthermore I will also skip the Plasma.

The most important thing now is to plan the route exactly, first priority is to get the wave beam and the speed booster to make the Brinstar and Crateria clean-up in one turn later. I risk to take this 2 items in Norfair with only 2 Energy Tanks and 1 Reserve Tank during the heat. Sounds crazy but is indeed possible :-)

I also made a small Demo of some interesting parts to demonstrate the Speed and the way to get to Norfair with this 2 Tanks as a small teaser.

http://rapidshare.de/files/8967497/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi.html

Mirrors:
http://spjclan.com/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi
[url=http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi]http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi[/url]

Thanks alot to StarmanHaxor and Andrew Mills for the Mirrors!

Further Demos:

2nd Teaser until 3rd Power Bomb Pack in old Brinstar.
http://rapidshare.de/files/10490435/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_2.avi.html
Mirror: [url=http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_Speed_Demo2.avi]http://www.zeromission.co.uk/tas/Super_Metroid_Speed_Demo2.avi[/url] (Thanks to Andrew Mills)

3rd Teaser completing the entire Lower Norfair and beating Ridley!
http://rapidshare.de/files/29925902/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_3.avi.html
Mirror: http://www.samus.co.uk/movies/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos_3.avi

I hope the route I choose is the most rational one, if someone thinks I have missed something or want to suggest a maybe better route, lets hear it.

I also want to thank Maur for giving me the idea once to make this insane run. I hope you guys will like it when it is done.

LifeMega:

registered on 2005-09-24 06:38:53 pm.

Location: AAAGHH! THE METROID'S GOT MY HEAD!

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LifeMega

2005-12-11 03:13:11 am

That... was the most awesome thing ever. Raped Super Metroid. I can't wait to see this run. How did you run over the bridge to the reserve tank and get through the gates in human form?

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2005-12-11 03:24:27 am

Thats because of the pumping arms by pressing the L or R button every 2nd frame. Its a trick that lets Samus run about 5-10% faster than normal which is enough to cross the gates.

XtraX:

registered on 2004-12-21 01:17:19 pm.

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XtraX

2005-12-11 04:11:40 am

I *knew* you were doing a reverse boss run after you talked about *some special run* on bisqwit. Are you going to fight minibosses(like Croco) in reversed order or not at all? This will definitaley be interesting. I actually can't wait for Maridia-_-

I also think the route is optimal. You need Speed, Wave and Crystal flash for the Brinstar cleanup,so doing Norfair first seems to be the best thing.

Hope it won't take too long;)

Chanoire:

registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.

Gender: female

Location: Somewhere else.

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Chanoire

2005-12-11 05:39:29 am

Quote from XtraX:

Are you going to fight minibosses(like Croco) in reversed order or not at all?

He already said he was skipping all of them except Botwoon. Presumably the bomb Torizo doesn't count.

I'd like to see a reverse boss run, but frankly don't see much point in the extra-fancy tool assistance parts of the movie clip posted, since only a small bit at the end deals with hazards specific to the run. I realize you're doing this for a different audience, but my basic feeling, and one I think might be shared here, is that if you've seen one superplay you've seen them all. I'll still be interested in watching the final product, but from that standpoint all the effort of making the earlier parts clever and artistic and perfect is unnecessary because the attraction is in the handling of the suitless conditions and not how you jumped over this or that on the 20th rerecord. For that matter, even the first part may be somewhat meaningless when you can arrange for every drop in the heated areas to be whatever you need. Watching Scarlet get to the Lower Norfair save point with 2 energy left in her NBMB just has a different intensity from a rerecorded run, no matter how beautiful.

[quote="XtraX"]Are you going to fight minibosses(like Croco) in reversed order or not at all? [/quote]
He already said he was skipping all of them except Botwoon.  Presumably the bomb Torizo doesn't count.

I'd like to see a reverse boss run, but frankly don't see much point in the extra-fancy tool assistance parts of the movie clip posted, since only a small bit at the end deals with hazards specific to the run.  I realize you're doing this for a different audience, but my basic feeling, and one I think might be shared here, is that if you've seen one superplay you've seen them all.  I'll still be interested in watching the final product, but from that standpoint all the effort of making the earlier parts clever and artistic and perfect is unnecessary because the attraction is in the handling of the suitless conditions and not how you jumped over this or that on the 20th rerecord.  For that matter, even the first part may be somewhat meaningless when you can arrange for every drop in the heated areas to be whatever you need.  Watching Scarlet get to the Lower Norfair save point with 2 energy left in her NBMB just has a different intensity from a rerecorded run, no matter how beautiful.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2005-12-11 07:09:23 am

I aim for speed even in this run and it just requires this difficult moves to get a faster result (example Mockball).

And about the effort in the first parts, I make a TAS and if I have the needed tools to make such moves I must use them. If not the TAS will be bad quality and I don't want to spend the entire time to make a bad TAS. The end product will be more impressive the more I work on it and this is my goal.

I saw Scarlet's NBMB, very very impressive for a console player. I also got some ideas for my run of this. Now we only need a Reverse Boss Order played on the console. That would be the coronation for this game.

CorruptedPhoenix:

registered on 2005-11-20 12:48:06 pm.

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CorruptedPhoenix

2005-12-11 11:14:12 am

I just have to say it... that was incredible. Also for the fact that I've never seen a reverse boss order run makes it all the more interesting to watch.

With that short demonstration you showed us, I can definitely see you doing this run extremely well.

Best of luck to you.

dyip_90:

registered on 2005-09-22 03:52:27 pm.

Location: Ontario

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dyip_90

2005-12-11 01:45:44 pm

Very nice.

Can't wait to see this come out.

Yoshi348:

registered on 2003-09-15 04:52:52 pm.

Gender: male

Location: My own little world

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Yoshi348

2005-12-11 02:15:57 pm

PAGE BREAKER

Ready and willing.

Damn I'm confused... is this a TAS or not?

EDIT: Obviously I haven't downloaded it yet, as that's one way to tell... but I'd rather not right now.

nate:

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registered on 2003-09-15 06:16:34 pm.

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nate

2005-12-11 02:33:53 pm

君だけの

光になると

i'm pretty sure it is. people are just confused, as usual, which is why producing such things ought to result in instant damnation.

StarmanHaxor:

registered on 2004-10-29 08:35:09 pm.

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StarmanHaxor

2005-12-11 03:31:10 pm

Would you like to host this run on my website, seeing how rapidshare blows? <_<

Just PM me and I'll get you an FTP account.

I am mirroring your file on http://spjclan.com/Super_Metroid_-_Speed_Demos.avi , so nobody has to deal with rapidshare.

And I must say, it is quite the piece of work. The music was perfect and the whole thing was intense.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2005-12-11 04:21:51 pm

Yoshi and Nate:
Sometimes it helps to just read the first post. I already mentioned it 2 times that it is a TAS. This speed/quality is plain impossible without tools and this run is only for entertainment purposes. If you want to miss something, don't check it.

Starman:
This won't be the last movie I did, its just a kind of WIP (Work in Progress) to give people a demo of the run I work on. When I progress with the run I will make more demos in later locations. If you like this demo feel free to host it. I don't need a account at the moment, thanks for the offer though.

Vivi57:

registered on 2005-11-27 06:20:39 pm.

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Vivi57

2005-12-11 04:35:38 pm

I just watched the vid and it was great :)

makes me wish I had the patience to make something like that

one thing that I'm curious about is how you are going to get out of the area that you fight draygon without the gravity suit?

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2005-12-11 04:42:17 pm

I already informed myself about this. You have to use a Ice-Shield (with help of a power bomb) and during the shield a crystal flash (all on the top right platform of the room). When Draygon gets killed of the ice-shield during the flash you get a blue suit which allows you to shinespark out of the vertical room.

Vivi57:

registered on 2005-11-27 06:20:39 pm.

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Vivi57

2005-12-11 04:51:42 pm

wow, I never would have thought of trying that. I can't wait to see the final product.

StarmanHaxor:

registered on 2004-10-29 08:35:09 pm.

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StarmanHaxor

2005-12-11 04:54:46 pm

Saturn, I'd still replace the link in your first post with my mirror so as to not shy people away. :)

Chanoire:

registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.

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Chanoire

2005-12-11 04:57:08 pm

Quote from Vivi57:

one thing that I'm curious about is how you are going to get out of the area that you fight draygon without the gravity suit?

More info on that in this thread

SABERinBLUE:

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SABERinBLUE

2005-12-11 05:13:58 pm

Cook of the Sea

Quote from Chanoire:

Quote from XtraX:

Are you going to fight minibosses(like Croco) in reversed order or not at all?

He already said he was skipping all of them except Botwoon. Presumably the bomb Torizo doesn't count.

I'd like to see a reverse boss run, but frankly don't see much point in the extra-fancy tool assistance parts of the movie clip posted, since only a small bit at the end deals with hazards specific to the run. I realize you're doing this for a different audience, but my basic feeling, and one I think might be shared here, is that if you've seen one superplay you've seen them all. I'll still be interested in watching the final product, but from that standpoint all the effort of making the earlier parts clever and artistic and perfect is unnecessary because the attraction is in the handling of the suitless conditions and not how you jumped over this or that on the 20th rerecord.

Not perfect, Oire-chan. You can never have perfect.

Personally I very much enjoy these cyborg runs, but I really wish you (Saturn) would broadcast it a bit more that this is emulation raped, or tool-assisted, or whatever. The topic title is very misleading in this regard. I have no problem whatsoever with this kind of stuff so long as people are very clear on what it is. Your attitude on analog runs is very refreshing, in that you say that a console reverse-boss run would be the ultimate, and I'm not saying you're not calling a spade a spade, but could you please say "spade" a little bit louder?

Quote:

For that matter, even the first part may be somewhat meaningless when you can arrange for every drop in the heated areas to be whatever you need. Watching Scarlet get to the Lower Norfair save point with 2 energy left in her NBMB just has a different intensity from a rerecorded run, no matter how beautiful.

Certainly agreed. However, intensity and beauty are two seperate goals.

[quote="Chanoire"][quote="XtraX"]Are you going to fight minibosses(like Croco) in reversed order or not at all? [/quote]
He already said he was skipping all of them except Botwoon.  Presumably the bomb Torizo doesn't count.

I'd like to see a reverse boss run, but frankly don't see much point in the extra-fancy tool assistance parts of the movie clip posted, since only a small bit at the end deals with hazards specific to the run.  I realize you're doing this for a different audience, but my basic feeling, and one I think might be shared here, is that if you've seen one superplay you've seen them all.  I'll still be interested in watching the final product, but from that standpoint all the effort of making the earlier parts clever and artistic and perfect is unnecessary because the attraction is in the handling of the suitless conditions and not how you jumped over this or that on the 20th rerecord.  [/quote]

Not perfect, Oire-chan.  You can never have perfect.

Personally I very much enjoy these cyborg runs, but I really wish you (Saturn) would broadcast it a bit more that this is emulation raped, or tool-assisted, or whatever.  The topic title is very misleading in this regard.  I have no problem whatsoever with this kind of stuff so long as people are very clear on [i]what[/i] it is.  Your attitude on analog runs is very refreshing, in that you say that a console reverse-boss run would be the ultimate, and I'm not saying you're not calling a spade a spade, but could you please say "spade" a little bit louder?

[quote]For that matter, even the first part may be somewhat meaningless when you can arrange for every drop in the heated areas to be whatever you need.  Watching Scarlet get to the Lower Norfair save point with 2 energy left in her NBMB just has a different intensity from a rerecorded run, no matter how beautiful.[/quote]

Certainly agreed.  However, intensity and beauty are two seperate goals.

Random Zelda Person:

registered on 2004-12-11 10:50:19 am.

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Random Zelda Person

2005-12-11 06:14:28 pm

Quote from Chanoire:

More info on that in this thread

Hahaha, I just realized what the deal was about why the Gravity Suit was not skipped for low%. Crystal Flash = 2 extra PB expansions... I feel stupid.

Chanoire:

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Chanoire

2005-12-11 06:40:45 pm

Well, that and surviving the Lower Norfair entrance. I'm pretty sure that it would take more than three tanks to get through that without gravity.

Saber, you know what I mean; I'm not talking philosophical absolutes here. I can't see Saturn's sig while posting, but I think he has "See my perfect movies of ... at ... " in it and that's the scale I'm referring to. The rest of your post pretty much expressed my feelings toward it; my reaction was largely because of the topic being about the type of run (and, as you mention, not very emphatic about the tool-assisted nature) and so seeing the demo being 75% pre-Norfair kind of rubbed me the wrong way, I guess, because that wasn't what I was looking for.

Saturn, I realize that you have to make it polished because otherwise there's kind of no point. I just felt that it needed to be said, I suppose. You're right, of course; if you're going to break rules you need to break them good and hard. (In this case.)

Maur:

registered on 2004-11-14 08:05:18 pm.

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Maur

2005-12-11 08:01:06 pm

Lol saturn, you're doing this all just because I mentioned an rbo in the any% speedrun route topic, aren't you? :P

I'd love to see it. Doing it on a console would be more impressive, for obvious reasons, but this will still wow me. Keep on going.

CorruptedPhoenix:

registered on 2005-11-20 12:48:06 pm.

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CorruptedPhoenix

2005-12-11 10:25:28 pm

I was watching you're run a few times and showed it to my friends. They all think it was awesome, but all of us want to know what song you used for that demo? Sounds awesome..

Red Scarlet:

registered on 2004-01-20 01:26:46 pm.

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Red Scarlet

2005-12-12 01:47:45 am

I('d) like to watch (some MP3 runs)

I'd love to see a console one..or have the info about what and how many items are necessary to do a console one..my NBMB is pretty bad, maybe trying something new (again) would get me into enjoying the game once more..

Saturn: your link is dead. :(
But Starmanhaxor's worked.

hm, after watching that, nevermind (go go :35 100%).

Daniel, Lord Bahamut:

registered on 2004-08-24 10:44:39 pm.

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Daniel, Lord Bahamut

2005-12-12 01:49:08 am

Mega Flare

Yoshi, nate, why are you guys so closed-minded about TAS runs? I'm not understanding the out-and-out hostility you guys express when anyone ever brings up the subject. The only thing I can see it might have stemmed from is the old Scarlet thread where she denounces further speed running in light of the "Jecy" emulated run. I found this place before finding the bisqwit site, and I didn't develop the same attitude. Emulated runs are pretty fun to watch, especially with games like Sonic and Mario, and that's why they're produced, for entertainment value.

I lurk on the forums over at bisqwit and I gotta say, the dedication those guys have to their work easily rivals the speed runners we have here. They slave over segments with the same fervor one might when doing 22% Geo. If a trick can save a second or two, or in some cases as little as a couple frames, it's worth doing over again until the desired result is achieved. Your view that it's soulless or not worth the time is biased, and I for one don't approve of it. However, this is your message board and website, nate, so you're free to have whatever viewpoint you want. And if you want to give me probation or ban me for expressing my views, go right ahead. I stand by my statements.

Saturn, I enjoyed you teaser vid, and I support this endeavor to its fullest. Good luck, don't kill yourself over a couple of frames here and there, and most importantly, have fun.

Yoshi, nate, why are you guys so closed-minded about TAS runs? I'm not understanding the out-and-out hostility you guys express when anyone ever brings up the subject. The only thing I can see it might have stemmed from is the old Scarlet thread where she denounces further speed running in light of the "Jecy" emulated run. I found this place before finding the bisqwit site, and I didn't develop the same attitude. Emulated runs are pretty fun to watch, especially with games like Sonic and Mario, and that's why they're produced, for entertainment value.

I lurk on the forums over at bisqwit and I gotta say, the dedication those guys have to their work easily rivals the speed runners we have here. They slave over segments with the same fervor one might when doing 22% Geo. If a trick can save a second or two, or in some cases as little as a couple frames, it's worth doing over again until the desired result is achieved. Your view that it's soulless or not worth the time is biased, and I for one don't approve of it. However, this is your message board and website, nate, so you're free to have whatever viewpoint you want. And if you want to give me probation or ban me for expressing my views, go right ahead. I stand by my statements.

Saturn, I enjoyed you teaser vid, and I support this endeavor to its fullest. Good luck, don't kill yourself over a couple of frames here and there, and most importantly, have fun.

Chanoire:

registered on 2004-09-13 05:00:10 pm.

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Chanoire

2005-12-12 02:53:12 am

Quote from Daniel, Lord Bahamut:

However, this is your message board and website, nate, so you're free to have whatever viewpoint you want. And if you want to give me probation or ban me for expressing my views, go right ahead. I stand by my statements.

I can't imagine that Nate would do either for politely expressing a different opinion from his. However, the suggestion that punitive action would result from "expressing [one's] views" is rather insulting.

@ Scarlet, I'm sure Kejardon would have suggestions on what would be needed for this; the first time I heard of a reverse boss run was someone on gfaqs asking him for help on it. If it interests you to do it, then do it -- it should be pretty obvious that it would be highly valued. I watched about half of your NBMB last night when writing my first post in this thread, and it's fascinating but surely not up to the standard you'd do now. Actually, if it's only about doing the bosses in reverse order and not the minibosses, Crocomire could presumably be done early and therefore the power bombs to the left of his room could be gotten, undoubtedly helping in the crystal flash department. Not to mention the e-tank in his room.

[quote="Daniel, Lord Bahamut"]However, this is your message board and website, nate, so you're free to have whatever viewpoint you want. And if you want to give me probation or ban me for expressing my views, go right ahead. I stand by my statements.[/quote]
I can't imagine that Nate would do either for politely expressing a different opinion from his.  However, the suggestion that punitive action would result from "expressing [one's] views" is rather insulting.

@ Scarlet, I'm sure Kejardon would have suggestions on what would be needed for this; the first time I heard of a reverse boss run was someone on gfaqs asking him for help on it.  If it interests you to do it, then do it -- it should be pretty obvious that it would be highly valued.  I watched about half of your NBMB last night when writing my first post in this thread, and it's fascinating but surely not up to the standard you'd do now.  Actually, if it's only about doing the bosses in reverse order and not the minibosses, Crocomire could presumably be done early and therefore the power bombs to the left of his room could be gotten, undoubtedly helping in the crystal flash department.  Not to mention the e-tank in his room.