SM: Cliffhanger Promos and Discussion

DMantra:

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DMantra

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DMantra

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DMantra: 2008-06-18 03:13:36 pm

2008-03-19 08:25:59 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Promos:
NOTE: These are videos of the hard version.
There will be an easy version too.
Everyone will be able to play this in the end.

Thread title:

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

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Location: Not where you are

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ducknerd

2008-03-19 08:59:02 pm

Eschews avatars

Looking very nice. Can't say I have much new to say, except that I hope that norfair walljump segment is as hard as it gets, that the crumbling chozo at the end was a very nice touch, and that you have the strangest double bomb jump I've ever seen.

Spoo:

registered on 2006-06-03 12:06:23 am.

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Spoo

2008-03-19 09:25:20 pm

It looks... hard.

Black Telomeres:

registered on 2007-03-13 08:18:30 am.

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Black Telomeres

2008-03-19 11:12:32 pm

BAWWWWWW, too hard :)

Although I still like the aesthetics very much. I liked the stuff in Promo 1 in general more though. More bizarre statues and the like.

Cardweaver:

registered on 2007-10-21 11:56:26 pm.

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Cardweaver

2008-03-19 11:59:19 pm

Dmantra, while I'm a huge fan of Grapple-mid-air morphing, adding an IBJ to it is just insane. As in just insane enough to make me play! Pretty crazy stuff. Looks like I'll be needing my trusty 49% speed though. Can't wait!

I especially love using yapping maws as transportation through walls. Its strictly good times.

edited for clarity, I'm sleepier than I thought

MoogleEmperor:

registered on 2007-11-25 12:50:19 am.

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MoogleEmperor

2008-03-20 12:54:28 am

Looks interesting... I do hope you won't require horizontal bomb jumping, though... I simply can't do it.
I love a good challenge, so long as it isn't tedious.
With the Yapping Maws, though... it'd be a silly thing to do, but couldn't you get stuck if you killed them? A crumble block passage back to the beginning should solve that.

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

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Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2008-03-20 10:14:41 am

2008-03-20 10:12:14 am

It looks like a masochists dream come true. extra_smug

I thought about attaching a pic of a crying baby... But I don't think the powers that be would appreciate that.

It does look fun. The part with the grapple swing* and bomb jumping over the acid..... :( Meow. That's all I can say.

*grapple swing: Are you required to fire it exactly into that... hole? Because I'm 95% positive the grapple beam can't pass through solid objects. Meaning: if you were below the grapple block but had those other blocks in the way - you couldn't grapple on to it. Embarassed

-Right?

I seriously might give this one a go when it becomes available. Although I'll feel so bad if I have to abuse slo-mo.

ETA: I feel confident in wall jumping, but no so much in the bomb jump wizardry department. :-/

FirePhoenix:

registered on 2007-11-01 07:21:23 pm.

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FirePhoenix

2008-03-20 10:23:53 am

That looks WAY too hard for my tastes or skills. Sure I can wall-jump, bomb-jump, IBJ and grapple with the best of them but combining them so quickly and in such crazy ways, I won't survive long... :(

CaptainCanada:

registered on 2007-09-19 10:46:02 pm.

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CaptainCanada

2008-03-20 10:41:36 am

This hack looks absurdly fun.

uNsane:

registered on 2007-09-26 07:38:10 pm.

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Location: where the wild things are

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uNsane

2008-03-20 10:50:18 am

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I was hoping to see Gmork.

playerman1230:

registered on 2008-02-23 12:51:15 pm.

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Location: Sacramento, California

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playerman1230

2008-03-20 11:30:29 am

Hated by all

I don't know what would be harder: this, or Impossible.

DMantra:

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DMantra

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2008-03-20 02:33:01 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

ducknerd, I have a strange dbj? I probably do, sometimes I have it, and sometimes I wing it. My crappy computer puts my emulator in a perpetual state of speedup/slowdown by a few frames, makes timing ridiculous.

Spoo, I don't think it's hard enough actually. I playtest the hell out of it just to see if a small change worked, so all this hard crap is becoming easy.

BT, you'll see alot of unique statues. And yeah I'm a bit perplexed on this difficulty factor. I want to make a hack everyone will enjoy 'cause I'm putting alot of work into the story and aesthetics, but the evil side of me wants to give these pros a good run. I've made the game very TAS'able, things can be skipped, backtracking in some cases is optional.

Cardweaver, I hope you'll enjoy the challenge. I don't have the luxury of slow-down, just savestating. Makes playtesting a pain.

MoogleEmperor, unfortunately hbj, ibj and the like are required. But I plan on making an easy version omitting them, while keeping the other stuff intact. The easy version will still include insane amounts of mock/speedball.

Gaius_4, yeah the grappleblock has to be a precise hit, I could have been an ass an not given a chance for a good savestate location, but given the accuracy of executing the move..

FirePhoenix0, there will be a version omitting hbj/ibj so hopefully that will help. You'll still need to be quick on the walljumping though.

CaptainCanada, yes!

uNsane, Gmork (and his gift) are well hidden. Good luck meeting him.

playerman1230, I'd say impossible is harder. SM:I was impractically hard in some bits.

ducknerd, I have a strange dbj? I probably do, sometimes I have it, and sometimes I wing it. My crappy computer puts my emulator in a perpetual state of speedup/slowdown by a few frames, makes timing ridiculous.

Spoo, I don't think it's hard enough actually. I playtest the hell out of it just to see if a small change worked, so all this hard crap is becoming easy.

BT, you'll see alot of unique statues. And yeah I'm a bit perplexed on this difficulty factor. I want to make a hack everyone will enjoy 'cause I'm putting alot of work into the story and aesthetics, but the evil side of me wants to give these pros a good run. I've made the game very TAS'able, things can be skipped, backtracking in some cases is optional.

Cardweaver, I hope you'll enjoy the challenge. I don't have the luxury of slow-down, just savestating. Makes playtesting a pain.

MoogleEmperor, unfortunately hbj, ibj and the like are required. But I plan on making an easy version omitting them, while keeping the other stuff intact. The easy version will still include insane amounts of mock/speedball.

Gaius_4, yeah the grappleblock has to be a precise hit, I could have been an ass an not given a chance for a good savestate location, but given the accuracy of executing the move..

FirePhoenix0, there will be a version omitting hbj/ibj so hopefully that will help. You'll still need to be quick on the walljumping though.

CaptainCanada, yes!

uNsane, Gmork (and his gift) are well hidden. Good luck meeting him.

playerman1230, I'd say impossible is harder. SM:I was impractically hard in some bits.

Cardweaver:

registered on 2007-10-21 11:56:26 pm.

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Cardweaver

2008-03-20 03:04:17 pm

well, what emulator do you use Dmantra? If its snes9x, slowdown and speed up should the - and = keys, respectively.

Black Telomeres:

registered on 2007-03-13 08:18:30 am.

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Black Telomeres

2008-03-20 06:08:32 pm

Quote from DMantra:

And yeah I'm a bit perplexed on this difficulty factor. I want to make a hack everyone will enjoy 'cause I'm putting alot of work into the story and aesthetics, but the evil side of me wants to give these pros a good run.

That's a time paradox. About the only suggestion I can give on this beyond what you're already doing (releasing an easymode ver) is to do something like what Drew did with Redesign: to make the harder stuff optional to get more items (100% etc) and such. Or here's something odd I just thought of, combining and reconciling the two types of SM hacking: make the physically difficult way through out in the open for the TASers and make a realitively obscure way to bypass the insanely difficult parts that's cleverly hidden. Perhaps indicating with a special block nearby the entrance to the difficult parts that there is another way as a "code" so those who can't make it through can look for the alternate route.

DMantra:

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DMantra

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2008-03-22 02:18:12 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Uh yeah, I'll probably have to do that, make a second route thats easier. I really want lots of people to play this, I'm putting half a year into it and making it so hard the audience won't likely reach 30. Or I could just make another version called 'Cliffhanger (with rope)' :P

Cardweaver:

registered on 2007-10-21 11:56:26 pm.

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Cardweaver

2008-03-22 04:05:55 pm

Gasp! rope! can you imagine a rope block? Allowing samus to move up and down freely in a vertical line of blocks... That'd be awesome.

I know we already have the "elevators" made with slope blocks, but finding a way to make a "rope" would be cool.

DMantra:

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DMantra

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2008-03-22 04:35:16 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Cardweaver:

Gasp! rope! can you imagine a rope block? Allowing samus to move up and down freely in a vertical line of blocks... That'd be awesome.

I know we already have the "elevators" made with slope blocks, but finding a way to make a "rope" would be cool.

A swinging rope would be awesome, some kind of plm that acts like a perpetual grapple that catches you like a yapping maw and reacts to the movement of your swinging (hint hint kej).

But I like BT's concept, not making an easy version, but a certain tile which acts as a reference to an easy way out. While the idea makes me hesitate ('cause of all the work I've done to make my challenges unskippable from start to finish), I'd just have to put it in my good faith that players willing to try the challenge won't skip it. Although I'd be satisfied enough to see a TAS of it, actually I often times imagine this happening, its the ultimate feedback for your hack. :D

Cardweaver:

registered on 2007-10-21 11:56:26 pm.

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Cardweaver

2008-03-22 05:14:05 pm

Quote from DMantra:

Although I'd be satisfied enough to see a TAS of it, actually I often times imagine this happening, its the ultimate feedback for your hack. :D

Seeing someone TAS your hack is truly amazing, however, seeing someone finish [cough]Kriole[/cough] a TAS of your hack is even better.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2008-03-22 08:10:21 pm

Every Bit Counts

Quote from Cardweaver:

Seeing someone TAS your hack is truly amazing, however, seeing someone finish [cough]Kriole[/cough] a TAS of your hack is even better.

well he's busy with him and Taco's RBO run. but thats not going to be done soon. they aren't even done with Crateria. Norfair is going to take forever to do, as they are testing various routes and item pickups. on top of this, its olny a test run.

Black Telomeres:

registered on 2007-03-13 08:18:30 am.

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Black Telomeres

2008-03-22 08:23:48 pm

Quote from DMantra:

I'd just have to put it in my good faith that players willing to try the challenge won't skip it.

Well, judging by how fun the people who like these challenges find them, I'd say the people who want to play through them wouldn't want to skip them, especially if they can make an impressive-looking run through them. Also, just be sure to make the alternate route just obscure enough so you're sure the player will encounter the challenge first and only find the alternate route afterward through some searching.

Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2008-03-24 07:43:16 am

Every Bit Counts

and try to make the alternate route slower than the actuall challenge (ie a bunch of bomb blocks) because a TAS of this will look much better if you do the challenge.

Sneaky Paradox:

registered on 2007-02-05 10:34:22 pm.

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Sneaky Paradox

2008-03-24 11:59:03 am

This looks very very interesting! Can't wait!

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

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Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2008-03-24 12:55:13 pm

2008-03-24 12:52:17 pm

I doubt he would go back to the drawing board and make a whole bunch more rooms for.... not 'newbs' -but people that might not be able to handle what this game presents itself as. Which is a more difficult challenge. Doing so would only push the release further away. :(

Maybe this (or some other) hack could have a training room where players can practice and hone their abilities... Or discover new abilities they didn't know they had yet. :)

I'm not saying anyone else was saying he should make more rooms. I'm sure he'll know what to do to tone it down for people. Like making some obstacles less lethal.... :-?

Chris:

registered on 2008-01-24 07:55:00 pm.

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Chris

2008-03-24 12:54:45 pm

Quote from Gaius_4:

Maybe this (or some other) hack could have a training room where players can practice and hone their abilities... Or discover new abilities they didn't know they had yet. :)

Lol, maybe a training room instead of ceres station.

DMantra:

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DMantra

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2008-03-24 02:07:24 pm

Breathe in the Future, Breathe out the Past

Quote from Fano7:

and try to make the alternate route slower than the actuall challenge (ie a bunch of bomb blocks) because a TAS of this will look much better if you do the challenge.

My thoughts exactly. After thinking up ways to shortcut my challenges while keeping their time more than the challenge itself, I've come to the conclusion that I'll just make an easier version. Seriously, way too much crap to think about, I'm having a hard enough time with other obstacles. This hack relies heavily on your explorative intuition, having a keen eye. Sometimes it takes secrets to get to the places you need to go. You'de likely find a shortcut through a challenge pretty easily given the thought you have to give to even get to the challenge. Making a shortcut would then have to be an impractical secret (which I've been avoiding). When I release this there will be the normal and easy version to choose from, and I'll make the easier omit a piece of my story.