PAL SS WR

view all posts by MASTER-88

2007-05-16 01:35:55 pm

I just thought of something... If the SDA accepts VHS until 2008 maybe I could tape a PAL-version SS run and send it there? I remember my mother saying we have many spare videos and cassettes so I just thought of this being possible. Can you advice me, like in how to send it and everything about this kind of stuff? Rolling Eyes

Technically I'd have to make a very good run since my aim time would be sub 40 and I think it's much harder on PAL-version than on NTSC. Though Smokey's 38 min is a very good run I think on PAL 39 is harder. :-s

What do you think Question

Thread title:

MASTER-88:

registered on 2006-02-10 02:48:30 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Finland

MASTER-88

2007-05-16 02:08:05 pm

Speedrunner

Well PAL version is slower but it is especially much harder speedrun. You need perfect frame timing when you going in doors. All doors stopped your speed if you shoot wrong time or something.

There is lot little difference everywhere.

I think Cpaldow best time US version is 35 min and PAL version 42 min. PAL version is definitely slower. Sub 40 minutes run on PAL looks like pretty much hotarubi run on US or JPN.

nate:

is in the group Administrator.

is in the group deutschsprachiger Moderator.

registered on 2003-09-15 06:16:34 pm.

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Location: lubbock, tx, usa

view all posts by nate

nate

2007-05-16 02:14:12 pm

君だけの

光になると

http://speeddemosarchive.com/submit.html

go go go!

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-05-16 02:36:52 pm

Hurr Durr

Yup thats correct Master, but in a couple of days i plan on having a 39 as my best PAL time 8-) still thats a 4 minute difference wich says quite alot

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2007-05-16 03:02:26 pm

Thanks everyone! :) I appreciate it, really.

It took Hotarubi 2 months of recording to make such a remarkable run, so I have no hurry here. If it's done before 2008 I'm all good, because I remember nate stating at the Metroid Fusion best times topic that after that VHS is no longer accepted at SDA.

Master I think approximately 37 would be like Hotarubi run. But you do remember about my recent SS run of 43 min? In that run I failed in Norfair gate hater, gravity suit shine, pillar room, many boss fights, and still got that 43. Imagine now if I could get a run with all those done perfectly and record that run. I think sub 40 is very possible even on PAL, and SS makes it a bit easier in my opinion as saving doesn't eat like a minute off your time.

EDIT:
Cpadolf, in a couple of days?? I think you're joking unless you're planning to play for a week 24/7 or you're better than Hotarubi. With your old time being 44 min SS, I don't think you do 39 min just like that in couple of days.

Thanks everyone! :) I appreciate it, really.

It took Hotarubi 2 months of recording to make such a remarkable run, so I have no hurry here. If it's done before 2008 I'm all good, because I remember nate stating at the Metroid Fusion best times topic that after that VHS is no longer accepted at SDA.

Master I think approximately 37 would be like Hotarubi run. But you do remember about my recent SS run of 43 min? In that run I failed in Norfair gate hater, gravity suit shine, pillar room, many boss fights, and still got that 43. Imagine now if I could get a run with all those done perfectly and record that run. I think sub 40 is very possible even on PAL, and SS makes it a bit easier in my opinion as saving doesn't eat like a minute off your time.

EDIT:
Cpadolf, in a [b]couple of days[/b]?? I think you're joking unless you're planning to play for a week 24/7 or you're better than Hotarubi. With your old time being 44 min SS, I don't think you do 39 min just like that in couple of days.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-05-16 03:46:52 pm

Hurr Durr

No ofcourse im not having a 39 SS run complete in a couple of days, i meant that my Segmented sub 40 run will be completed in a couple of days. Only LN left to give me a challange, no a sub 40 SS i will be happy to complete in a couple of months.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2007-05-17 10:01:48 am

Okay, I've started. I put my video recorder in its own place and played a SS any% run. My first recorded run clear time is 43 min, so no improvement first try. :( This run had a lot of bad stuff, I mean:

-Draygon went to hell, no halfroom shine before Draygon
-Ridley being below average, and I stopped for a minute to get energy in the eye door room
-Slow Tourian, metroids got me 2 times

That's only a small part of the cons. Still some stuff was very good! Like Phantoon 2 round, top room of wrecked ship shine, gravity shine, pillar room shine, kagoball room short-charge mockball, etc. I'm looking forward on getting at least 41 or less, after that it's only minute to shave off. 8-)

Max:

registered on 2007-04-03 10:03:57 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Australia

view all posts by Max

Max

2007-06-01 02:32:48 am

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

Have fun with that. I'm still trying to get sub 40 SS but it is very hard to do.
I know it's possible, cpadolf can do it, but i just always screw up somewhere. Mostly in Maridia.

Max:

registered on 2007-04-03 10:03:57 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Australia

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Max

2007-06-02 05:51:10 am

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

If SDA was to accept a Pal SS record what would we have to aim for.

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by P.JMan

P.JMan

2007-06-02 08:34:51 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from Max:

If SDA was to accept a Pal SS record what would we have to aim for.

The same thing it already accepts

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-06-02 08:49:38 am

Hurr Durr

IIRC they said that due to version differences and so forth they would accept a SS run with a time somewhere around 00:35-00:37

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2007-06-02 01:26:56 pm

35 SS on PAL would already be Hotarubi run in my opinion. I might be wrong (moozooh don't flame me) but I think 34-36 min SS on PAL is already Hotarubi like. :D

Damn Lance, I'm drunk while posting this. laugh new

You gotta stop that I take too much influence from you. ;)

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-06-02 02:54:42 pm

Hurr Durr

I also think that 35 SS on PAL would be Hotarubi like, i definetly think that at least 2-3 minutes is added due to version differences although you might have to play PAL for a while to notice everything.

For example something like .5-1 second is lost per door you get stuck at, it takes 1.2 seconds to charge the beam instead of 1 (i take it that the number of frames it takes to charge the beam is 60 on PAL too.) which in the long run adds up to several seconds. Some shinecharges are harder/impossible on console, WS shine per example. I'm almost 100% sure that you fire both Missiles and Supers slower on PAL, probably due to the usual reason that is the same reason as for why doors open slower and beam charge slower. Therefore in battles such as against Dragoyn, Ridley and Motherbrain whom all take loads of missiles and charged beam shots, it adds up to some time, also it should make Botwoon 1 round harder i think. I also think that you can't take certain types of damage as often on PAL which then again only is a downside at Ceres when draining your life at Ridley. Then there probably is a 100 more things that you don't even notice that adds to your time and in the end i think that a PAL speedrun naturaly would be at least 2-3 mins slower in the end.

And BTW Tonski, you don't sound nearly drunk enough, i think you need some more...

I also think that 35 SS on PAL would be Hotarubi like, i definetly think that at least 2-3 minutes is added due to version differences although you might have to play PAL for a while to notice everything.

For example something like .5-1 second is lost per door you get stuck at, it takes 1.2 seconds to charge the beam instead of 1 (i take it that the number of frames it takes to charge the beam is 60 on PAL too.) which in the long run adds up to several seconds. Some shinecharges are harder/impossible on console, WS shine per example. I'm almost 100% sure that you fire both Missiles and Supers slower on PAL, probably due to the usual reason that is the same reason as for why doors open slower and beam charge slower. Therefore in battles such as against Dragoyn, Ridley and Motherbrain whom all take loads of missiles and charged beam shots, it adds up to some time, also it should make Botwoon 1 round harder i think. I also think that you can't take certain types of damage as often on PAL which then again only is a downside at Ceres when draining your life at Ridley. Then there probably is a 100 more things that you don't even notice that adds to your time and in the end i think that a PAL speedrun naturaly would be at least 2-3 mins slower in the end.

And BTW Tonski, you don't sound nearly drunk enough, i think you need some more...

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

2007-06-02 03:16:52 pm

coral to complement blue

Don't forget, PAL does have it's advantages too. (Torizo skip, anyone?) Saves a lot of time, which can make up for the door issues in short rooms.

While I'm not an expert on PAL, I would say that a 34 SS might be Hotarubi level (come on, he saved the animals), but I've never seen a PAL run optimized like that, so I can never know for sure.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-06-02 03:22:13 pm

Hurr Durr

Yea but the again NTSC has it's uppsides like pre WS two room shine and rolling under the platforms in the room in norfair with the rising lava. Someone ought to make a emulated run resembling horatubis run, same tricks same misstakes, but on PAL to once and for all bust this question. Probably no one wants to take time to make it though, i know i don't.

Then there is stuff i never checked if they differ like fall sped and jump/walljump speed, they most likely don't though.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

2007-06-02 03:31:32 pm

coral to complement blue

-That Shine is possible on a PAL cart, but you need to use a charged shot.
-Multiple enemy boosting across that norfair room is faster than rolling under, if done correctly.

But yeah, your point stands. NTSC obviously has more advantages, but I don't know if it amounts to over 2 minutes in the end.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

2007-06-02 03:58:24 pm

Hurr Durr

And unfortunately we will probably never know... Although if someone uploads a speedrun of SM PAL which is 37 or lower we will at least have a good measurement and see how close it is to hotarubi quality.

Tonski:

registered on 2007-02-15 01:16:13 pm.

Location: Finland

2007-06-02 05:35:17 pm

Yeah Filip, I do need more to wash the truth away that I've been badly pwned on Super Metroid PAL cart.

Max and Cpadolf are both a lot better than me, so it's a shame they can't record. They'd probably make like 36 SS, when I at the best could only reach 38. (on PAL)

Seems like I got more enough to state this on public forum. khaaaan

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

Gender: male

Location: Sweden

view all posts by moozooh

2007-06-02 05:49:37 pm

Hurr Durr

Omg he said my real name... my cover is blown, retreat Shocked

But really only practice and you will get there, i play an average of 4-5 full SS runs a week mostly not seriously aiming for a record and only playing a little lay back, but still even that makes me better in the end, it's all about knowing the game inside out and knowing every little move in every room before trying a serious shot at a personal best.

Max:

registered on 2007-04-03 10:03:57 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Australia

view all posts by Max

Max

2007-06-03 04:15:31 am

Waaaaaaa i want insanity

Quote from Tonski:

Max and Cpadolf are both a lot better than me, so it's a shame they can't record.

Ah ah i'm getting a capture card in a week so i can record soon.
But the real problem is the fact that my console carked it and it screwed up the cart, :( so i have to get a console and a cart before i can make a run.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

moozooh

2007-06-04 09:30:49 am

Quote from Cpadolf:

Someone ought to make a emulated run resembling horatubis run, same tricks same misstakes, but on PAL to once and for all bust this question. Probably no one wants to take time to make it though, i know i don't.

I might do it this week. However, there are two ways of making such run, and I most likely won't do both, so you'll have to choose.

The first would be a plain copy of Hotarubi's run with all the mistakes and such things as saving the animals, to translate his run to PAL version as truthfully as I'm willing to do. It will most likely be not faster than 00:34-00:35 and thus will fail as a reference frame for those willing to record an up-to-standard PAL WR.

The second would be a kind of a reference testrun that will contain most of the minor mistakes and inaccuracies (I'm not going to do the run frame by frame so it will be somewhat limited by my playing ability, although I will be using some slowdown to compensate), but will use all the major timesavers Hotarubi's run didn't include, such as the successful WS top deck and pre-Draygon shines, a two-round Phantoon fight (in other words, the things that could have easily gotten him a 00:31 if executed successfully in the current WR run) and obviously the Torizo skip, since it's kind of a "must" trick for the PAL vesion of an SDA-acceptable run. My estimation for the final time would be about 00:33 in this case, and it will be a much better reference. Personally, I'm leaning towards this version.

Also, yeah, weapon charge and cooldown values are the same in both versions which effectively make them slower on PAL. That could explain some of the time differences outside of the local/major tricks.

[quote="Cpadolf"]Someone ought to make a emulated run resembling horatubis run, same tricks same misstakes, but on PAL to once and for all bust this question. Probably no one wants to take time to make it though, i know i don't.[/quote]
I might do it this week. However, there are two ways of making such run, and I most likely won't do both, so you'll have to choose.

The first would be a plain copy of Hotarubi's run with all the mistakes and such things as saving the animals, to translate his run to PAL version as truthfully as I'm willing to do. It will most likely be not faster than 00:34-00:35 and thus will fail as a reference frame for those willing to record an up-to-standard PAL WR.

The second would be a kind of a reference testrun that will contain most of the minor mistakes and inaccuracies (I'm not going to do the run frame by frame so it will be somewhat limited by my playing ability, although I will be using some slowdown to compensate), but will use all the major timesavers Hotarubi's run didn't include, such as the successful WS top deck and pre-Draygon shines, a two-round Phantoon fight (in other words, the things that could have easily gotten him a 00:31 if executed successfully in the current WR run) and obviously the Torizo skip, since it's kind of a "must" trick for the PAL vesion of an SDA-acceptable run. My estimation for the final time would be about 00:33 in this case, and it will be a much better reference. Personally, I'm leaning towards this version.

Also, yeah, weapon charge and cooldown values are the same in both versions which effectively make them slower on PAL. That could explain some of the time differences outside of the local/major tricks.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

view all posts by moozooh

2007-06-04 01:35:19 pm

coral to complement blue

Yeah, the latter is a much better choice. Assuming it won't look like a TAS, as much as a "near perfect SS", the time in the end should be the PAL WR goal.

moozooh:

registered on 2006-01-11 12:51:46 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Moscow

moozooh

2007-06-04 01:51:29 pm

Well, I will make sure everything I do is possible in realtime.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.