More Faster Speed Charge

view all posts by PAL-Player

(user is banned)

2006-08-07 10:13:18 am

Faster than this.

Try this for example at the landing site above the blocks right to the ship, on the hill, whatever.

Take one step forward in the direction you want to go (tap the direction), then press and hold down the run button and immediately tap 3 times the direction, the time between third and fourth tap has to be a bit longer than between the second and third. After that just hold run, shine appears much faster.

Tap = T , run = B

T.T.T..T direction
.B____

An easier location is the small path where the shriekbats fall down in the room left to the landing site.

The timing is difficult, the time between first tap and run is essential.

Thread title:

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Tampico, Tamaulipas, Mexico

view all posts by Azor

Azor

2006-08-07 07:36:05 pm

Phazon level: 83%

nice, i wish i wasnt at school, that way i could test it and implement it somehow on a run

PAL-Player:

registered on 2005-08-03 03:19:21 am.

PAL-Player

2006-08-07 11:35:35 pm

could we get a video of this and put it to the quickcharge technique?
A comparison of normal, quick and "new" quick charge would be interessting.

Laney:

is in the group Banned.

registered on 2004-08-02 08:31:44 am.

Location: Deutschland

(user is banned)

2006-08-09 09:39:07 am

Unless anyone makes one there will be no Vid, because I don't have the equipment for that.

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by PAL-Player

2006-08-09 09:42:16 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

were talking about this right

PAL-Player:

registered on 2005-08-03 03:19:21 am.

PAL-Player

2006-08-09 10:33:06 am

If I got it right, he doesn't mean that.
He means, that be starting to charge speed, you have to tap in the direction you want to run, and with a special pattern of tapping the pad you will be able to charge even quicker than the quickcharge but not as quick as frame-perfect charge.

Laney:

is in the group Banned.

registered on 2004-08-02 08:31:44 am.

Location: Deutschland

(user is banned)

2006-08-09 11:04:24 am

I was doing it on console...

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by BlueGlass

2006-08-09 12:15:15 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from PAL-Player:

If I got it right, he doesn't mean that.
He means, that be starting to charge speed, you have to tap in the direction you want to run, and with a special pattern of tapping the pad you will be able to charge even quicker than the quickcharge but not as quick as frame-perfect charge.

if you let go of the direction you lose speed boost incriment, therefore taking longer. so that's a no no

you tap the dash button to charge short, which is what happens in the link

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

BlueGlass

2006-08-09 12:24:51 pm

I tried this a few times, and it definitely works. Nice discovery, Laney! Now we just need to find places to use it and get Kejardon to explain why it works.

EDIT: Here's an SMV. Unfortunately, I suck at keyboard controls and am not sure I fully understand how the trick works, so it takes me a few tries.

attachment:

Super Metroid (JU)1 [!].smv

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

Gender: male

view all posts by rekameohs

2006-08-09 03:51:10 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

kej did explain once i swear, although i've looker throughhis posts page 4 to 14 and can't find the post >_>

nice movie :|

rekameohs:

registered on 2006-02-21 08:17:36 pm.

rekameohs

2006-08-09 05:19:56 pm

Anywhere, everywhere

iirc the speed booster only looks to see if the run button is down on frames 25, 50, and 75. All the other frames, you don't need to hold the button down. Kej can correct me if I'm wrong.

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.

view all posts by BlueGlass

2006-08-09 06:12:39 pm

if I understand the mechanics right, basically what he's doing is tricking the game into thinking he's moving before the boost increment increases. As is apparent in the frame-perfect version, Samus' run speed and boost increment are not related.

So as long as Samus is moving, the boost increment can increase. If you let go of the directional button, the boost is set to zero. What he's doing is exploiting that to shorten the distance before the first boost increment. After that, charge/short-charge as normal.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Kej can correct any of this if it's wrong, since I don't know the stuff as well as he does, but it's the only code-wise explanation that I could think of.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

BlueGlass

2006-08-09 11:40:24 pm

Quote from WhiteStar47:

if I understand the mechanics right, basically what he's doing is tricking the game into thinking he's moving before the boost increment increases. As is apparent in the frame-perfect version, Samus' run speed and boost increment are not related.

So as long as Samus is moving, the boost increment can increase. If you let go of the directional button, the boost is set to zero. What he's doing is exploiting that to shorten the distance before the first boost increment. After that, charge/short-charge as normal.

Anyway, that's how I see it. Kej can correct any of this if it's wrong, since I don't know the stuff as well as he does, but it's the only code-wise explanation that I could think of.

This thing Laney has discovered is DIFFERENT FROM this. The quick charge/short charge is holding the direction and only pressing run on certain frames. Laney's trick is holding run and only pressing the direction on certain frames.

[quote="WhiteStar47"]if I understand the mechanics right, basically what he's doing is tricking the game into thinking he's moving before the boost increment increases. As is apparent in the frame-perfect version, Samus' run speed and boost increment are not related.

So as long as Samus is moving, the boost increment can increase.  If you let go of the directional button, the boost is set to zero.  What he's doing is exploiting that to shorten the distance before the first boost increment.  After that, charge/short-charge as normal.

Anyway, that's how I see it.  Kej can correct any of this if it's wrong, since I don't know the stuff as well as he does, but it's the only code-wise explanation that I could think of.[/quote]

This thing Laney has discovered is DIFFERENT FROM [url=http://tasvideos.org/SuperMetroidTricks.html#charge_shinespark_in_shorter_distance_]this[/url].  The quick charge/short charge is holding the direction and only pressing run on certain frames.  Laney's trick is holding run and only pressing the direction on certain frames.

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.

view all posts by BlueGlass

2006-08-10 12:36:38 am

I noticed that, and I even explained it out in my previous post, but perhaps it wasn't all that clear. What Laney found simply reduces the ground covered before the boost increment is increased at all.

As P.JMan said, if you release the directional button, the boost increment is reduced (probably set to zero) so once it increments, you have to keep it pressed. In the smv you posted, you'll notice that when you pull it off, you never come to a full stop, and that after the taps you continue to run as if you were doing a normal speed charge.

The way I'm thinking this works, is that Samus' "inertia" after you release the directional button is still counted as "running" and therefore counts towards the necessary frames to increment speed boost.

Edit: I don't know why this never occured to me before but kweh...

I was just thinking, there has to be a boost increment check for if the direction button is pressed or not, otherwise we could get a charge by simply tapping the directional button, and using "inertia" to keep Samus moving, or simply charging and releasing the directional button. I have no clue what frames it would be on, and Kej could probably tell you, but anyway. We already know that there's a check for the run button, but that's covered by keeping it always pressed. "inertia" covers the movement check, and the tapping probably is timed out to hit the check frames. So 2 possible explanations for this, but I need Kej's brain to tell you for sure.

I noticed that, and I even explained it out in my previous post, but perhaps it wasn't all that clear.  What Laney found simply reduces the ground covered [i]before[/i] the boost increment is increased at all.

As P.JMan said, if you release the directional button, the boost increment is reduced (probably set to zero) so once it increments, you have to keep it pressed.  In the smv you posted, you'll notice that when you pull it off, you never come to a full stop, and that after the taps you continue to run as if you were doing a normal speed charge.

The way I'm thinking this works, is that  Samus' "inertia" after you release the directional button is still counted as "running" and therefore counts towards the necessary frames to increment speed boost.

Edit: I don't know why this never occured to me before but kweh...

I was just thinking, there has to be a boost increment check for if the direction button is pressed or not, otherwise we could get a charge by simply tapping the directional button, and using "inertia" to keep Samus moving, or simply charging and releasing the directional button.  I have no clue what frames it would be on, and Kej could probably tell you, but anyway.  We already know that there's a check for the run button, but that's covered by keeping it always pressed.  "inertia" covers the movement check, and the tapping probably is timed out to hit the check frames.  So 2 possible explanations for this, but I need Kej's brain to tell you for sure.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

BlueGlass

2006-08-10 01:30:44 am

Sorry. I kinda misunderstood your post, thinking that you were confusing it with the short charge, like P. JMan did.

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.

2006-08-10 01:41:36 am

eh, not a problem, it happens to me a lot. You'd think I'd learn, but I never do ;_; I've got a habit of being kinda unclear in explanations.

and I haven't played Ecco in ages... You're making me miss my genesis ;_;

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

Gender: male

2006-08-10 02:11:11 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

the reason you managed that is because
when you stop and start, it takes longer for you to gain speed
although the 2nd stop was usless if that's true, because the boost counter start's when you hold right and stops if you release right or press down

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.

2006-08-10 07:39:09 am

Unless it only checks on certain frames, like it does with the dash button. then you would only need to press the button on that frame, and as long as the movement check passes, the boost counter would not reset.

It would kinda make sense to have the 2 checks for the boost on the same frame, which means this is basically like the short-charge trick, only in that we're tapping the d-pad, not the dash button. The reason it would seem faster is that we're covering a lot less ground, since we're moving the first part of the charge at or even less than standard movement speed.

Laney:

is in the group Banned.

registered on 2004-08-02 08:31:44 am.

Location: Deutschland

view all posts by Kejardon

(user is banned)

2006-08-10 10:29:34 am

I've recorded it now with my PhoneCam.
For better demonstration I've picked the very small path right to the n00b bridge.

First Video

As you can see you can't make it with regular, take a step and then hold run, take a step stop and run.

Second Video

The timing is hard and but as you can see at 00:15 first and at 00:55 a bit better how it's done.

Kejardon:

registered on 2004-12-07 07:21:36 pm.

Gender: male

Kejardon

2006-08-10 02:15:16 pm

Embarrasing Fact: Power suit made by lowest bidder

WhiteStar pretty much nailed it with his first post. The direction button is checked every frame. If you let go, all of Samus's speed is dumped into inertia and she's set to decelerating (and her speed counter is reset), but the current animation keeps going on. And the speed counter (not speed itself) is updated on a certain frame: When Samus's front leg hits the ground.

And Samus's normal movement, without running, is kept seperate from her speed movement with running. I generally call the normal movement 'inertia' and the speed movement 'speed', but it's probably not all that accurate. The speed counter is what changes Samus's animation speed and gives blue suit at 4.

3 seperate things, all refering to different 'speeds' of some sort. >_>

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.

2006-08-10 03:46:26 pm

So the same thing can kinda be seen in the short charge from the water to the door in wrecked ship entrance, right? Coming free of the water on or just before a check frame would go quite a ways to reducing the charge distance.

Another thing. If this could be combined with the short-charge, it would probably cut the distance for a charge considerably over either technique alone.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

view all posts by Saturn

Saturn

2006-08-10 05:46:03 pm

Apparently it's out now. :)

This is one of my discoveries during the Reverse Boss Order run as well. The Charge itself isn't faster, it's just shorter. Combined with this it allows a Charge even in the most unusual places.

Here is a small rip of my current RBO run which shows the most useful locations for "The Shortest Charge" to use:
http://rapidshare.de/files/28942696/Super_Metroid_-_Shortest_Charge.avi.html

And now it's a great thing we can effectively use the same method even on console conditions. Nice job Laney!

WhiteStar47:

registered on 2006-08-09 03:29:59 pm.