Is there any consensus on the best save points for a segmented any% run?

OptimoPeach:

registered on 2009-11-06 02:29:20 pm.

view all posts by OptimoPeach

OptimoPeach

2010-02-12 09:01:50 pm

asdf?

I've been toying with the idea of doing a semi-srs any% run. I'm nowhere near skilled enough to perform at a high level for 30+ minutes and I realize segmented runs are kinda cheating, but I'd still like to do it for fun.

Anyway, seeing as this community has so many dedicated players, I was wondering if there were any save points that are agreed to be the best for such a run. I know I could just go look at older segmented runs, but I figured that with the way this game is someone might have since found a route that is better in some way. I'd really appreciate some input.

Sorry if this is a topic that has come up in the past; I tried doing a quick search but couldn't find anything.

Thread title:

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Gaius_4

Gaius_4

2010-02-13 04:15:40 am

I can't say I know of any general consensus on strategic save locations, especially since that would depend on the route you'd be taking... And we don't know what way you had in mind of going.

Hmm... One could make a flow chart of ways to go. Typically you'll likely go the usual route through Green Brinstar,

then you'd have a choice to either go up and get the power bombs, then you'd have the option of going to the wrecked ship, or back down to red brinstar.

or go down through red brinstar, no suit through Norfair, or go ahead and get the varia suit after beating Kraid.

So on and so forth...

So, again, it would depend on the route you were going to take, and how big your balls are to risk anything potentially dangerous. laugh new

A good one might be the one in upper norfair that has openings on the left and right side (to the right has the bugs and speed booster blocks)... That's just for starters and/or that one area. You can save there when you first get into Norfair, or when you're leaving and are headed for (usually) Tourian.

Also, we can't guess what your skill level is, so that would also depend on where you might want to save or not. Confused

I guess.

I can't say I know of any general consensus on strategic save locations, especially since that would depend on the route you'd be taking...  And we don't know what way you had in mind of going.

Hmm...  One could make a flow chart of ways to go.  Typically you'll likely go the usual route through Green Brinstar,

then you'd have a choice to either go up and get the power bombs, then you'd have the option of going to the wrecked ship, or back down to red brinstar.

or go down through red brinstar, no suit through Norfair, or go ahead and get the varia suit after beating Kraid.

So on and so forth...

So, again, it would depend on the route you were going to take, and how big your balls are to risk anything potentially dangerous. :laugh:

A good one might be the one in upper norfair that has openings on the left and right side (to the right has the bugs and speed booster blocks)...  That's just for starters and/or that one area.  You can save there when you first get into Norfair, or when you're leaving and are headed for (usually) Tourian.

Also, we can't guess what your skill level is, so that would also depend on where you might want to save or not. :???:

I guess.

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-13 08:29:35 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I'm assuming since you state you're not a top player that the 'hero shot' (Power Bombs before Norfair) is out of the question, in which case:

The 'normal' first save is in the red Brinstar shaft, above the Power Bombs. Another option is the save room just off the bubble room, en route to Speed Booster and Wave Beam. If you want one before this (as it's quite a longrun, I'd just use the one in Brinstar's elevator shaft. The normal exit from the above items is through the long corridor with the speed blocks and those enemies that latch on to you and suck your health. This route passes through a save room, so you're not even spending extra time with additional doors. Despite these other options, Red Brinstar is also good for another reason - it's as close as you're going to get before the Wrecked Ship / Phantoon, so you can retry if you mess up.

Once you've done the Wrecked ship, and are looking to enter Maridia, you can use the red Brinstar save again, as you'll pass it anyway.

Early Maridia is pretty standard, so just using the save before Draygon is a good idea (even though it's a room away), as it means Botwoon can be retried from your last Brinstar save if it goes terribly, and you're right before Draygon, who can also get a bit random. After Draygon is just clean up, so it shouldn't be too bad, but if you wish to save again before entering Lower Norfair, I'd recommend the Booster room again. If possible, hold out for the one just before entering Lower Norfair, next to the elevator.

After Ridley, you should really go straight for the end game, and save in Tourian, but you could use the one just off the elevator room in Norfair again (the one you went through earlier, after Speed Booster)

It really depends on your ability, as less skill means you'll probably want more saves. I'd recommend using more than you think you'll need, and slowly do a few more runs, removing one save at a time, and find what you're comfortable with. Good luck!

I'm assuming since you state you're not a top player that the 'hero shot' (Power Bombs before Norfair) is out of the question, in which case:

The 'normal' first save is in the red Brinstar shaft, above the Power Bombs.  Another option is the save room just off the bubble room, en route to Speed Booster and Wave Beam.  If you want one before this (as it's quite a longrun, I'd just use the one in Brinstar's elevator shaft.  The normal exit from the above items is through the long corridor with the speed blocks and those enemies that latch on to you and suck your health.  This route passes through a save room, so you're not even spending extra time with additional doors.  Despite these other options, Red Brinstar is also good for another reason - it's as close as you're going to get before the Wrecked Ship / Phantoon, so you can retry if you mess up.

Once you've done the Wrecked ship, and are looking to enter Maridia, you can use the red Brinstar save again, as you'll pass it anyway.

Early Maridia is pretty standard, so just using the save before Draygon is a good idea (even though it's a room away), as it means Botwoon can be retried from your last Brinstar save if it goes terribly, and you're right before Draygon, who can also get a bit random.  After Draygon is just clean up, so it shouldn't be too bad, but if you wish to save again before entering Lower Norfair, I'd recommend the Booster room again.  If possible, hold out for the one just before entering Lower Norfair, next to the elevator.

After Ridley, you should really go straight for the end game, and save in Tourian, but you could use the one just off the elevator room in Norfair again (the one you went through earlier, after Speed Booster)

It really depends on your ability, as less skill means you'll probably want more saves.  I'd recommend using more than you think you'll need, and slowly do a few more runs, removing one save at a time, and find what you're comfortable with.  Good luck!

attachment:

Possible Saves.gif

Gamma_Metroid:

registered on 2007-10-01 04:21:50 pm.

Gender: male

Location: United States

view all posts by Gamma_Metroid

Gamma_Metroid

2010-02-13 10:47:59 am

eeeeyyaaghhh!

I'd also recommend saving at your ship right before Phantoon, because he can be very tricky.

Xaggoth:

registered on 2008-04-08 07:30:09 pm.

Gender: male

Location: Oregon

view all posts by Xaggoth

Xaggoth

2010-02-13 03:32:34 pm

I guess it depends on the route, but you're probably doing the route Hotarubi has published as SDA? I would recommend saving in green brinstar to practice the first mockball and kraid quick kill, saving before the lake (in red brinstar) after powerbombs to practice lake shinesparking, killing phantoon and botwoon, and save just before draygon. I don't really think you need a save before ridley since there aren't any tricks that are too difficult after draygon and until you reach tourian. As mentioned before you could have a final save for the zebetite glitch too. I don't think you'd want more than those four though. As you get better I would recommend cutting off the 1st, 2nd, 4th and 3rd in that order.

OptimoPeach:

registered on 2009-11-06 02:29:20 pm.

view all posts by OptimoPeach

OptimoPeach

Edit history:

OptimoPeach: 2010-02-13 05:40:34 pm

2010-02-13 05:36:42 pm

asdf?

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate how helpful everyone is here.

Yeah, I guess I should have been more specific about the general route I was planning on taking -- and that is the same path as seen in Hotarubi's 30 and 31 minute runs. I am capable of deviations like the hero shot, but I don't trust myself enough to nail it on the first try and would rather not bother lol.

So I looked over all of your posts (that map was an especially big help!) and here's what I'm thinking:

1st save: Just before Kraid. I've done this segment more than any other, so I'm confident that I have it all down to pat. I can get the quick kill on Kraid about 80% of the time, but it's enough to make me wary and want a save before there

2nd save: Red Brinstar before the missile lake. I figure that the one after the booster blocks would be unnecessary with a save before Kraid, and in lieu of that I think this is probably the best. Also, I can 3 round Phantoon with ease, but I'd like to try to get a 2 round, and I'm still a bit inconsistent with that

3rd save: Red Brinstar again

4th save: Before Draygon

5th save: To the left of the Lower Norfair elevator before Ridley

6 save: Before the Zebetite room in Tourian

At this point in time I think that 4 is too few and 8 is too many. I have a bad habit of getting bored and quitting around Draygon (I hate that fight), so my weakest area is probably post-Wrecked Ship -> Ridley. I figure that the 1st, 3rd, and 5th saves will be the easiest to forgo in future runs as I become more confident, and from there I can work on eventually skipping the last 2. Single segment seems rough though lol.

Thoughts?

edit: I'm also curious if you guys think that a ~36 minute clear time is feasible with this many saves

Thanks for all the replies. I really appreciate how helpful everyone is here.

Yeah, I guess I should have been more specific about the general route I was planning on taking -- and that is the same path as seen in Hotarubi's 30 and 31 minute runs. I am capable of deviations like the hero shot, but I don't trust myself enough to nail it on the first try and would rather not bother lol.

So I looked over all of your posts (that map was an especially big help!) and here's what I'm thinking:

1st save: Just before Kraid. I've done this segment more than any other, so I'm confident that I have it all down to pat. I can get the quick kill on Kraid about 80% of the time, but it's enough to make me wary and want a save before there

2nd save: Red Brinstar before the missile lake. I figure that the one after the booster blocks would be unnecessary with a save before Kraid, and in lieu of that I think this is probably the best. Also, I can 3 round Phantoon with ease, but I'd like to try to get a 2 round, and I'm still a bit inconsistent with that

3rd save: Red Brinstar again

4th save: Before Draygon

5th save: To the left of the Lower Norfair elevator before Ridley

6 save: Before the Zebetite room in Tourian

At this point in time I think that 4 is too few and 8 is too many. I have a bad habit of getting bored and quitting around Draygon (I hate that fight), so my weakest area is probably post-Wrecked Ship -> Ridley. I figure that the 1st, 3rd, and 5th saves will be the easiest to forgo in future runs as I become more confident, and from there I can work on eventually skipping the last 2. Single segment seems rough though lol.

Thoughts?

edit: I'm also curious if you guys think that a ~36 minute clear time is feasible with this many saves

Opium:

registered on 2008-08-19 01:51:50 pm.

Gender: female

view all posts by Opium

Opium

Edit history:

Opium: 2010-02-13 05:45:07 pm

Opium: 2010-02-13 05:43:41 pm

Opium: 2010-02-13 05:42:33 pm

2010-02-13 05:42:10 pm

Servin' you realness!!

If you can pull of Kraid quick-kill 80% of the time, then I say forget the save there. If you screw it up, you're close enough to the beginning of the game to just start over, but there's an 80% chance that you won't have to do that. That save point is a little out of the way anyways.

I can see doing it before the missile lake/phantoon and doing it before draygon, but the others I'm questioning how necessary they are, esp the tourian one.

EDIT: I guess if you were doing a minimal% run then the tourian one would make sense.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

view all posts by 072

072

2010-02-14 03:02:29 pm

coral to complement blue

Back when I was trying for a sub-31 segmented run, we determined it was best to only use three saves: before Phantoon (In red brinstar), before Botwoon, and before Ridley. :36 or less is certainly possible with more saves though, so if there are other areas you have a lot of trouble on, that's fine. Personally, I agree with Opium that an 80% chance is high enough that you don't really need to save there before Kraid.

OptimoPeach:

registered on 2009-11-06 02:29:20 pm.

view all posts by OptimoPeach

OptimoPeach

Edit history:

OptimoPeach: 2010-02-14 07:50:00 pm

2010-02-14 07:44:41 pm

asdf?

Alright, here's my plan now with some of the suggested revisions:

1st save: After the speed booster blocks in upper Norfair, before I obtain the Ice Beam

2nd save: Wrecked Ship save point after Phantoon. I'd like to nail the shinespark at the top of the Wrecked Ship (which I'm still fairly inconsistent on), and I figure that it's not a big difference saving here instead of on my way down Red Brinstar since there's nothing difficult between here and Botwoon. Also, I think I might have to just bite the bullet and settle on a 3 round Phantoon for the time being, because I am absolutely terrible at timing the wave beam shield. Can anyone approximate how much time would be lost doing 3 round instead of 2 round? I realize his patterns heavily factor into the length of the battle, but just a general estimate would be helpful

3rd save: Before Draygon

4th save: pre-Ridley Lower Norfair elevator

5th save: Before the Zebetite room in Tourian

Glad to hear that 36 minutes is an obtainable time with this route. I'm not dedicated enough to aim for 30-34 minutes (especially single segment) but I'll be happy if I can pull this off; kinda like how I was satisfied enough with placing top 30 in WoW's arena rankings without nerdraging over the fact that I'm not good enough to be the best

Anyway, sorry if I rambled a bunch. Pretty high right now lol. But again, thanks a ton for all of the input. I'd have been lost trying to plan all this shit out on my own

Alright, here's my plan now with some of the suggested revisions:

1st save: After the speed booster blocks in upper Norfair, before I obtain the Ice Beam

2nd save: Wrecked Ship save point after Phantoon. I'd like to nail the shinespark at the top of the Wrecked Ship (which I'm still fairly inconsistent on), and I figure that it's not a big difference saving here instead of on my way down Red Brinstar since there's nothing difficult between here and Botwoon. Also, I think I might have to just bite the bullet and settle on a 3 round Phantoon for the time being, because I am absolutely terrible at timing the wave beam shield. Can anyone approximate how much time would be lost doing 3 round instead of 2 round? I realize his patterns heavily factor into the length of the battle, but just a general estimate would be helpful

3rd save: Before Draygon

4th save: pre-Ridley Lower Norfair elevator

5th save: Before the Zebetite room in Tourian

Glad to hear that 36 minutes is an obtainable time with this route. I'm not dedicated enough to aim for 30-34 minutes (especially single segment) but I'll be happy if I can pull this off; kinda like how I was satisfied enough with placing top 30 in WoW's arena rankings without nerdraging over the fact that I'm not good enough to be the best

Anyway, sorry if I rambled a bunch. Pretty high right now lol. But again, thanks a ton for all of the input. I'd have been lost trying to plan all this shit out on my own

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-15 02:18:57 am

professional chin scratcher

3 rounds against phantoon is more than respectable. I did it for my 34 single segment PAL run. Well per round against phantoon you can lose anything up to 15 second roughly. That's about 7 seconds lost for his medium pattern and 15 or so for his slowest So its not disasterous. I agree the wave-power combo is difficult to time and ultimatley unnassential if you can play the game well enough to not screw up too much. But it's allways nice when phantoon has his quickest patterns. Only once in the entire time since i started speed running the game 2 and a half years ago has he had his quickest patterns three times in a row !!

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-15 06:11:53 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

I wouldn't worry about the three-round Phantoon, as it's not that much time added. It feels really long when you're waiting, but it's not really that bad.

It sounds like you have more grief with Draygon, so it may be worth focusing on that for a while. There are (as with everything) varying opinions on the fight. I'm still a player that chooses to spam him with Supers, and can usually finish the fight in about a minute, but I always do a 100% run, so I have plenty to use. The main trick here is to never get touched by his gunk things. When he starts spewing them, lay your Power Bomb to clear them, but avoid getting touched. That way, you'll remove the gunk, but he won't fly away, so you can get 'in' his belly, and spam away with Supers. You'll probably find that once you get more consistent with his fight, you won't dread it as much. Outside of that, you could practice sparking into him for silly damage, but it's often hard to target.

This is a fairly good example of a low powered Samus killing him fairly easily with a mix of attacks:

I wouldn't worry about the three-round Phantoon, as it's not [i]that[/i] much time added.  It feels really long when you're waiting, but it's not really that bad.

It sounds like you have more grief with Draygon, so it may be worth focusing on that for a while.  There are (as with everything) varying opinions on the fight.  I'm still a player that chooses to spam him with Supers, and can usually finish the fight in about a minute, but I always do a 100% run, so I have plenty to use.  The main trick here is to never get touched by his gunk things.  When he starts spewing them, lay your Power Bomb to clear them, but avoid getting touched.  That way, you'll remove the gunk, but he won't fly away, so you can get 'in' his belly, and spam away with Supers.  You'll probably find that once you get more consistent with his fight, you won't dread it as much.  Outside of that, you could practice sparking into him for silly damage, but it's often hard to target.

This is a fairly good example of a low powered Samus killing him fairly easily with a mix of attacks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgCfehlAcuA

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Gaius_4

Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2010-02-15 09:30:03 am

Gaius_4: 2010-02-15 09:28:18 am

2010-02-15 09:20:16 am

Sorry for going a bit off-topic... I'm wondering how the moonwalk would work against Draygon? When he comes towards you firing the goop, and firing missiles up at him/her...

*goes to try it... if he can*

Edit: Nope. >:-P .... Then again, there is a trick to it, but not worth it... It's not quick enough.

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-15 10:05:18 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

No, but you could try this:

The glitching is due to cheats allowing infinite missiles, but this is still possible without. (TAS only, of course)

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 03:38:20 am

professional chin scratcher

wo wat the heck happened in that whoa (@c.bags)

ive never seen that before. someone explain this to me Drool

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Gaius_4

Gaius_4

Edit history:

Gaius_4: 2010-02-16 04:41:45 am

2010-02-16 04:39:25 am

See the funky graphics where the missiles, grapple beam, x-ray scope, etc. should be? That's most usually caused by the 'Space-Time Beam' glitch (that's what it's really called, seriously). It resets the game and you can start the game from the beginning with everything equiped... Or, whatever you had before you activated the glitch.

The absolute fastest way to kill him (as long as you're cheating or messing around) is to shoot a charged Plasma beam at him, then repeatedly activate the X-Ray scope. This also works on Botwoon.

Edit: I should mention... I didn't really explain what EXACTLY was going on there, but I'm positive it has to do with that glitch. Confused

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 04:43:50 am

professional chin scratcher

cool. I knew about the space time beam and the reset glitch and plasma beam-x-ray combo death but he's flicking through MISSILES and x-ray. wtf ! Shocked

Gaius_4:

registered on 2007-07-05 06:10:26 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Gaius_4

Gaius_4

2010-02-16 04:45:17 am

Probly a TAS. ;)

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 04:48:49 am

professional chin scratcher

well yea but ....... Wink

OptimoPeach:

registered on 2009-11-06 02:29:20 pm.

view all posts by OptimoPeach

OptimoPeach

2010-02-16 04:58:41 am

asdf?

Quote from Quietus:

It sounds like you have more grief with Draygon, so it may be worth focusing on that for a while. There are (as with everything) varying opinions on the fight. I'm still a player that chooses to spam him with Supers, and can usually finish the fight in about a minute, but I always do a 100% run, so I have plenty to use. The main trick here is to never get touched by his gunk things. When he starts spewing them, lay your Power Bomb to clear them, but avoid getting touched. That way, you'll remove the gunk, but he won't fly away, so you can get 'in' his belly, and spam away with Supers. You'll probably find that once you get more consistent with his fight, you won't dread it as much. Outside of that, you could practice sparking into him for silly damage, but it's often hard to target.

This is a fairly good example of a low powered Samus killing him fairly easily with a mix of attacks:

Wow, I COMPLETELY forgot that you can shinespark him. When I kill him by spamming super and regular missiles I tend to waste a few and end up having to finish him with charged shots which typically costs me an extra 30 seconds or so. I guess I'll get a savestate in his room to practice the positioning with the shinespark and see how that goes. I suppose if that doesn't work out I could also consider grabbing the missile pack in the wall of the room above him, cuz I usually skip that one

[quote="Quietus"]
It sounds like you have more grief with Draygon, so it may be worth focusing on that for a while.  There are (as with everything) varying opinions on the fight.  I'm still a player that chooses to spam him with Supers, and can usually finish the fight in about a minute, but I always do a 100% run, so I have plenty to use.  The main trick here is to never get touched by his gunk things.  When he starts spewing them, lay your Power Bomb to clear them, but avoid getting touched.  That way, you'll remove the gunk, but he won't fly away, so you can get 'in' his belly, and spam away with Supers.  You'll probably find that once you get more consistent with his fight, you won't dread it as much.  Outside of that, you could practice sparking into him for silly damage, but it's often hard to target.

This is a fairly good example of a low powered Samus killing him fairly easily with a mix of attacks:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VgCfehlAcuA[/quote]

Wow, I COMPLETELY forgot that you can shinespark him. When I kill him by spamming super and regular missiles I tend to waste a few and end up having to finish him with charged shots which typically costs me an extra 30 seconds or so. I guess I'll get a savestate in his room to practice the positioning with the shinespark and see how that goes. I suppose if that doesn't work out I could also consider grabbing the missile pack in the wall of the room above him, cuz I usually skip that one

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 05:06:52 am

professional chin scratcher

Shinesparking him to death is a very good idea if you ve run out of missles and you dont want to spend a long time finishing him/her off with charged shots. Typically you want to do mid-air shinesparks into draygons head for maximum damage. Practise this first of course. Takes a while to get used to. A few TASes ive seen draygon has beeen killed in three well placed shinesparks to the head. you could check my run out on the thread just next to this one. pal version speed runs. find part 4 i think and wind it on until you find the draygon battle. Shameless plugging i know lol

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-16 05:15:24 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

In explaining that glitched video: Draygon's movement is paused temporarily when you hit him with the Grapple Beam. In the video he rapidly switches between firing the Grapple Beam and firing a Missile. Hitting him quickly enough with the Grapple Beam effectively freezes him, so he can be spammed with missiles while he's not moving.

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 05:19:42 am

professional chin scratcher

ahh i see. bad typo in one of my posts i sed missiles and xray. so technically you can do it with supers as well or would that be too slow.

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-16 05:21:15 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

They move too slowly. Sad

Giganotabehemoth87:

registered on 2010-01-19 06:48:48 pm.

Gender: male

Location: England

view all posts by Giganotabehemoth87

Giganotabehemoth87

2010-02-16 05:23:03 am

professional chin scratcher

would be cool tho wouldnt it. dont suppose you could do it with any other charged shot either because plasma beam penetrates the body where as the other beams dont so they are effectively canceled after their first hit.

Quietus:

registered on 2008-09-13 07:03:27 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by Quietus

Quietus

2010-02-16 05:42:26 am

Super Secret Area - Dead Ahead!

That's correct, and to get Plasma you have to do some X-ray stuff anyway, so it would never really save any time.