i still speed run this game

Azor:

registered on 2006-06-08 07:48:44 pm.

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Azor

2006-06-08 11:14:43 pm

Phazon level: 83%

so i was thinking if anyone had a route they wanted to try out, ive been finishing on single segments super metroid, most of them end around 37 so i thought a new route could be better

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BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2006-06-09 02:25:33 am

Wait a sec, if youre getting 37 minute SS any% times, record them and send them in! That's a new record!

As far as route goes, I really can't see anything more efficient than the current, although you might consider not grabbing the fourth and fifth etanks, and remember to include all the new tricks. Actually, considerind all the new tricks, a one minute time increase really isn't all that surprising.

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 03:36:28 am

I've done the route of Phantoon --> Ice Beam --> Draygon --> Ridley --> Kraid on emulator with no savestates used. Needed something around 47 minutes. But i'm not very good and messed up a lot, done by someone more skilled it might be faster.

BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2006-06-09 04:09:02 am

The problem with that route (and why I can safely say it's slower) is that you must remember that you are fighting Phantoon with 1 etank, the Power Suit, the plain Charge Beam, 5 Super Missiles (at least one of which was required for entering the ship, and a second was probably used on the eye door), and 10 Missiles. The fight will take a VERY long time. Also, remember that just plain running around will be much slower because you don't have the Speed Booster. Besides, I thought that route had been discussed at length and both speedrunners and TASers had found it slower.

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 05:14:45 am

I don't find him that hard, he's reasonably quick defeated too. Using supers on him is a bad idea. Only lenghtens the fight and you'll have a hard time surviving his counter attack.

I don't know about the discussions. It's just my favorite route to take, when I play. If I don't go for speed, I take the Crateria gauntlet right after silver torizo too. Gives an energy tank and 2 missile tanks. If ind the route pretty nice, even if it's not suited for speed running...

BlueGlass:

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BlueGlass

2006-06-09 05:42:13 am

Ah, you like to do really hard things. Ever tried a reverse boss order run? Also, what do you mean about his counterattack being hard to avoid? Just pseudo screw attack through the flames.

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 07:51:06 am

Well, I have to admit, I never actually succeeded in doing a crystal flash for some reason. So RBO is out of question (I'm eagerly avaiting Saturn's TAS RBO though). Heck I'm glad I'm halfway decent in single wall jumping. *lol* Compared to most speed runners I most likely suck. I do my best to copy what I see in the speedruns, but oh well...

Well I only use a super missile on Phantoom, if I know it finishes him off... I don't like dealing with his counter attack. I've died too many times and just never bothered with it anymore. I do think it's faster anyway... maybe I'm wrong. *shrug*

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2006-06-09 08:55:37 am

It's very difficult to say which route (Phantoon first or regular) is faster. Killing Phantoon won't be a problem as in TAS conditions you can kill him in one round just like in the regular run. 20 Missiles and 1 Super will suffice. The bigger problem which will cost most time in Phantoon first is the large room full of enemies and grey doors at the top of wrecked ship. Instead of shinesparking through the enemies you have to kill them with Missiles and Supers and in this early conditions you won't have enough of them and refills will take some time in any case. Furthermore you lose around 5 sec on the way to the Gravity Guard and another 5 sec on the way to enter wrecked ship the first time instead of shinesparking through both rooms before WS.

In the end the the time loss through wrecked ship is almost similar to the time gain of skiping the Norfair items detour but you also have to consider a small time gain on the kraid area by boosting through it using the speedbooster if going Phantoon first.

I think without precise testings it's still pretty unclear which route will be faster in the end.

It's very difficult to say which route (Phantoon first or regular) is faster. Killing Phantoon won't be a problem as in TAS conditions you can kill him in one round just like in the regular run. 20 Missiles and 1 Super will suffice. The bigger problem which will cost most time in Phantoon first is the large room full of enemies and grey doors at the top of wrecked ship. Instead of shinesparking through the enemies you have to kill them with Missiles and Supers and in this early conditions you won't have enough of them and refills will take some time in any case. Furthermore you lose around 5 sec on the way to the Gravity Guard and another 5 sec on the way to enter wrecked ship the first time instead of shinesparking through both rooms before WS.

In the end the the time loss through wrecked ship is almost similar to the time gain of skiping the Norfair items detour but you also have to consider a small time gain on the kraid area by boosting through it using the speedbooster if going Phantoon first.

I think without precise testings it's still pretty unclear which route will be faster in the end.

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 09:04:18 am

Plasma saves some time while going to Kraid and back too. :)

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-09 06:20:08 pm

Phazon level: 83%

so what could be a new route? on my today try of single segment clearing it i got 38 because i stopped for another super missile at maridia, im not sure if it was better

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 09:43:32 pm

As Saturn said, the route need throughout testing and timing. Aside from mine I can think of two more options.

Phantoon --> Ridley --> Kraid --> Draygon
Phantoon --> Ridley --> Draygon --> Kraid

The Gravity Suit gives enough protection to go for Ridley first, but Samus is likely to be too underpowered to make it through Lower Norfair fast enough to be a viable option for a speed run. On the other hand, you'd only have to go to Norfair once. Kraid after Ridley would be a good choice since you have to pass his room anyway on the way to Draygon. And he's a quick kill anyway. From Draygon to Tourian it's quite fast too, plus you can go by your ship and refill ammo.

So all you can do is either test and time the options throughly, or try to optimize the existing runs more...

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2006-06-09 09:53:14 pm

Unless you have many Supers Ridley after Phantoon will slow down the fight alot without Plasma which is the only big downside of this route.

Azor:
I think at least for a SS console run the best choice would be the regular route because of the high risk to screw up at WS which is very difficult in Phantoon first. And as BlueGlass said you should really record your SS run and send it to nate if you can get a 37 because it would be a new WR.

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-09 10:48:20 pm

Phazon level: 83%

isnt the record 36? anyway i dont know about the single segment record but i use basically the route the 36 mins guy used, though sometimes i take a little detour to get another missile and super missile, with this detour today i did 38, im sure that could go down a lot since i screwed things a lot

i think ill still use the normal route but i might try the other just to see if its better

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-09 11:35:56 pm

Single segment 37' is a new record. Current non-TAS record is afaik 38 '.

XtraX:

registered on 2004-12-21 01:17:19 pm.

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XtraX

2006-06-10 04:04:25 am

look at speeddemosarchive.com . The current segemented record is :36 ; the current SS record is :38. And I want to see :37.

Another route to try would be Phantoon -->Draygon --> Kraid+ Ridley. You do Draygon before Ridley in the normal route aswell.

I believe the normal route is the best though, especially for SS console runs.

There are afaik no runs which use the Phantoon early route, but there is the :27 TAS which uses the normal route and the :35 14% Ice TAS which uses the Phantoon --> Ridley --> Kraid -->Draygon . Watch/compare them if you want.

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-10 12:03:52 pm

Phazon level: 83%

i wish i had something to record my run :(

anyway ill try the phantoon first run sometime and see which is better, maybe i should go try it now

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2006-06-10 02:24:46 pm

If you have a VHS or DVD recorder you can capture your run by simply connenting your SNES to it, find the correct channel and record. It's pretty simple.

Good luck with Phantoon first route. Maybe you can indeed end faster with it but I personaly doubt it.

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-10 03:14:22 pm

Phazon level: 83%

ok, but does anyone here has a video of horizontal bomb jumping, cuz i think ill need that to get to wrecked ship

P.JMan:

registered on 2005-11-30 10:52:21 am.

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P.JMan

2006-06-10 04:17:49 pm

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

http://www.metroid2002.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=109265&highlight=#109265

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-10 05:43:57 pm

Phazon level: 83%

i cant see them, it says they arent available for download

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-10 08:05:48 pm

You can jump onto the pole in the middle with the missle and do a diagonal bomb jump from there.

http://media.putfile.com/Early-WS-breakin

Azor:

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Azor

2006-06-11 12:00:00 am

Phazon level: 83%

oh, thx ill try since i cant get to wi-fi on hunters

P.JMan:

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P.JMan

2006-06-11 02:44:41 am

I like Big Butts and I can not lie

Quote from Azor:

i cant see them, it says they arent available for download

oh yeah, i forgot to mention #-o you had to copy and paste the text into the address bar Embarassed

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2006-06-11 06:32:30 am

Quote from Azor:

does anyone here has a video of horizontal bomb jumping, cuz i think ill need that to get to wrecked ship

Just want to mention that using the horizontal bomb jump is slower than the not long ago discovered walljump trick. I used this trick while comparing the routes and it is almost 3 sec faster than HBJ.

Here is a demo of the walljump trick:
http://rapidshare.de/files/22774066/SM_-_Walljump_trick_to_Wrecked_Ship.avi.html

However it's very difficult to perform on console as the timing of the jumps must be extremely precise so in a SS it's probably safer to use HBJ anyway.

Liam:

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Liam

2006-06-11 11:03:39 am

That looks quite neat. So smooth!