Fastest any% route?

2007-09-18 04:28:13 pm

yeah

I've been thinking about speedrunning this game on any%, and have thought about a lot of possible routes through the game. The first one I thought about was reverse boss order, but that would make Maridia a slow piece of crap and would force some backtracking to Kraid. So I thought about doing Kraid first and then Ridley, Draygon, and Phantoon, which is the fastest overworld route, but still makes Maridia a slow piece of crap. So I thought about doing Phantoon before Draygon and concluded that that was the fastest route, but then BlueGlass told me that it would make LN slower. So I've been wondering: Is there a route faster than Hotarubi's? I mean, my route wouldn't make LN that much slower, would it?

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Fano7:

registered on 2007-09-01 09:26:53 am.

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Fano7

2007-09-18 04:34:45 pm

Every Bit Counts

I think that you need to do Phantoon before Maridia and Kraid before Norfair (unless you want to collect 4+ more E-Tanks then the 3 required or get gravity before Norfair. If you do this and don't collect varia, you need 3 more E-Tanks) to make them fast. I would say Phantoon first, and then the rest in any order. You could do Phantoon ---> Dragoon (SP?) ---> Kraid ---> Ridley.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

2007-09-18 04:50:39 pm

It would be quite easy to make a route faster than Hoaarubi's: just go up Maridia after Ridley instead of green Brinstar.

As for Phantoon first, I seem to remember that the TASers said it would only be faster in a TAS, where perfect arm-pumping, one-round Phantoon, and other such things can be used to make up for the lack of speedbooster.

One thng I've been wonderig, though, is wether the following route is doable on console, and if so, is it potentially faster:

everything normal up to Brinstar, where in addition to grabbing the mockball supers, the rtank is also grabbed
grab spazer, go to Norfair and grab hi-jump and etank
use 2 etanks and reserve tank to go straight to bubble room and grab speedbooster and wave
And from there, everything is normal, except Ice is grabbed on the way to LN.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-18 04:58:35 pm

yeah

If that's so, then I guess my route would be faster than Hotarubi's, despite the fact that I won't have Plasma for Ridley.

Blueglass: Yes, that route is doable on console, I have gotten through the Speed Booster Gauntlet (the 3 rooms before the bubble room) with only 2 etanks and 1 reserve tank on the console. Here's a ZMV of it:

Edit: Okay, Norfair doesn't seem to like ZSNES movies, so I remade it in Snes9x:

attachment:

norfair dash.smv

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

2007-09-18 05:00:55 pm

How many supers do you plan on having for the Ridley fight? Because without plasma or lots of supers, Ridley takes a significantly longer time to die.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-09-18 05:26:43 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from BlueGlass:

everything normal up to Brinstar, where in addition to grabbing the mockball supers, the rtank is also grabbed
grab spazer, go to Norfair and grab hi-jump and etank
use 2 etanks and reserve tank to go straight to bubble room and grab speedbooster and wave
And from there, everything is normal, except Ice is grabbed on the way to LN.

I'm not sure I understand here... what is the point of putting off Kraid/Varia?

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-18 05:33:01 pm

yeah

Quote from BlueGlass:

How many supers do you plan on having for the Ridley fight? Because without plasma or lots of supers, Ridley takes a significantly longer time to die.

Define "lots".

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by ducknerd

2007-09-18 07:24:55 pm

072: Spedbooster and hi-jump save time in Kraid's lair. If that time is more than the time lost refilling health in Norfair, then it's an improvement.

ING-X: well, let's see, Supers can cause Ridley 1800 damage/second. Missiles can only cause a bit below 400/seciond (invincibility frames), and charge ice/wave/spazer can only cause 300/second. And Ridley has 18000 HP.

So killing him solely with Supers takes 10 seconds minimum, add another ten for human error and luck, that's 20. Missiles only would be 51 seconds optimal, add another 30 to that for human error. Charge beam only would take 61 seconds optimal, add 35 for human error.

If you were to go straight to Ridley after grabbing Norfair items, you'd have 4 supers (one used on the eye door) and approximately 15 missiles.

Oh, wait. I'm an idiot. There's another problem with your route I hadn't noticed before: POWER BOMBS

They're required for LN, Maridia, and WS, and the only ggood place to get PBs in an any% is Red Brinstar, (as in, near WS)

Anyway, if you were to do Phantoon first (the only sensible thing to do if you're already in red Brinstar in an any%) the fight would end up taking probably something like four rounds, all of which will be extremely difficult, with a very hard trick at the beginning of the segment and plenty of chances to mess up. So sorry, but your route isn't feasible.

072:  Spedbooster and hi-jump save time in Kraid's lair.  If that time is more than the time lost refilling health in Norfair, then it's an improvement.

ING-X: well, let's see, Supers can cause Ridley 1800 damage/second.  Missiles can only cause a bit below 400/seciond (invincibility frames), and charge ice/wave/spazer can only cause 300/second.   And Ridley has 18000 HP.

So killing him solely with Supers takes 10 seconds minimum, add another ten for human error and luck, that's 20.  Missiles only would be 51 seconds optimal, add another 30 to that for human error.  Charge beam only would take 61 seconds optimal, add 35 for human error.

If you were to go straight to Ridley after grabbing Norfair items, you'd have 4 supers (one used on the eye door) and approximately 15 missiles.

Oh, wait.  I'm an idiot.  There's another problem with your route I hadn't noticed before:  POWER BOMBS

They're required for LN, Maridia, and WS, and the only ggood place to get PBs in an any% is Red Brinstar, (as in, near WS)

Anyway, if you were to do Phantoon first (the only sensible thing to do if you're already in red Brinstar in an any%) the fight would end up taking probably something like four rounds, all of which will be extremely difficult, with a very hard trick at the beginning of the segment and plenty of chances to mess up.  So sorry, but your route isn't feasible.

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

Gender: male

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ducknerd

2007-09-18 07:30:05 pm

Eschews avatars

Well, it takes 30 supers to kill him with perfect aim and plasma does three times the damage spazer does...

There's really no point in putting off Kraid's lair if you're already entering Norfair. The tiny (sub-second) amount of time you'd lose in crossing part of the elevator room one time less would be dwarfed by the amount of time it would take to refill your energy between speed booster and wave beam. Also, early LN would be a HUGE waste of time, as you'd need to probably do the Brinstar cleanup to get enough tanks and that takes A) way too much time, and B) the Speed Booster, which you wouldn't have.

All in all, Hotarubi's route (with the Maridian route to tourian rather than the brinstar one) is pretty much the best anyone can do.

Also, more power to you, but you seem to be taking on a lot of speedrunning projects at once. Maybe you should do a few testruns and decide on one run to focus on, rather than trying to spread yourself out like this.

072:

registered on 2007-04-16 11:23:38 pm.

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072

2007-09-18 08:25:55 pm

coral to complement blue

Quote from BlueGlass:

072: Spedbooster and hi-jump save time in Kraid's lair. If that time is more than the time lost refilling health in Norfair, then it's an improvement.

Ah. Didn't think of that. I doubt it will be faster though...

Speedbooster would however save much time at Kraid's area. Say, what does a shinespark do to an eye-door?

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

2007-09-18 08:27:39 pm

Shinesparks do nothing to eye doors.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-19 02:11:38 pm

yeah

Quote from ducknerd:

Also, more power to you, but you seem to be taking on a lot of speedrunning projects at once. Maybe you should do a few testruns and decide on one run to focus on, rather than trying to spread yourself out like this.

Yeah, I know. I was planning on doing any% first, then RBO, then 100%.

Also, I have come up with an even better route: Kraid -> Phantoon -> Ridley -> Draygon. It seems that this is the fastest route because:

1. You can go straight to Red Brinstar elevator to Crateria from Maridia
2. You'll have some more Supers for Ridley
3. You can do a Gravity Jump to Ridley's Lair instead of the slightly slower head wall jumps

I do plan on getting Spore Spawn's Supers using the new method (the one without CF). Hopefully this will save me some time in Ridley.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

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view all posts by Cpadolf

2007-09-19 04:47:38 pm

The question with that route is wether or not the slightly shorter distance-wise route makes up for the time gained by doing LN without space jump, plasma, and the supers gained in Maridia.

Cpadolf:

registered on 2007-02-14 03:32:46 am.

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Cpadolf

2007-09-20 07:33:06 am

Hurr Durr

I'd say it's slower, basicly it's the unassisted version of hero of the day's TAS which aims for ingame time. Early LN is simply slower.
I am 98% certain that your route is slower ingame. But probably slightly faster realtime (Which does not matter for a unassisted run)

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-20 02:08:10 pm

yeah

Quote from Cpadolf:

I'd say it's slower, basicly it's the unassisted version of hero of the day's TAS which aims for ingame time. Early LN is simply slower.
I am 98% certain that your route is slower ingame. But probably slightly faster realtime (Which does not matter for a unassisted run)

In that case, I'll probably do a low% run instead of an any% run for now since I'm nowhere near good enough to beat Hotarubi's time with the current route (at least for now). I'll probably do any% later when I get better at this game. Besides, SDA really needs a low% run for this game.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

2007-09-20 03:28:34 pm

For low%, the best route would probably be Phantoon -> Kraid -> Ridley- > Draygon, as the time saved by having ice for Phanoon is probably far less than the time spent traveling the extra distance.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-20 03:47:37 pm

yeah

Quote from BlueGlass:

For low%, the best route would probably be Phantoon -> Kraid -> Ridley- > Draygon, as the time saved by having ice for Phanoon is probably far less than the time spent traveling the extra distance.

Yeah, but the HBJ doesn't like me, so the fastest route I'm capable of is Kraid -> Phantoon -> Ridley -> Draygon.

Saturn:

registered on 2005-09-01 03:34:43 pm.

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Saturn

2007-09-20 04:03:54 pm

But then you need Speed Booster instead of Ice, otherwise you still have to HBJ to Phantoon, no matter when.

ING-X:

registered on 2005-11-19 05:27:17 pm.

Gender: male

Location: The Lylat System

2007-09-20 04:21:29 pm

yeah

Quote from Saturn:

But then you need Speed Booster instead of Ice, otherwise you still have to HBJ to Phantoon, no matter when.

...would 15% be accepted a SDA in a different category than than 14%? aiwebs_016

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male

view all posts by ducknerd

2007-09-20 04:27:38 pm

15% would count as any%. If you can get a segmented 15% run in 31 or less, it'll be accepted.

ducknerd:

registered on 2006-12-23 11:16:33 am.

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ducknerd

2007-09-20 09:05:16 pm

Eschews avatars

I hate to say it, but I'm fairly sure that the reason there is no 14% run up yet is that it's too hard. I did a little testrunning a few months back using the route for Terimakasih's TAS, and it was just WAY too tough simply because in a lot of places (especially in the Phantoon segment) there is literally no room for error (as in, 1-chance-only DBJ followed by the Phantoon fight followed by two PERFECT damage boosts and long jumps afterward). Also, if you do do a 14%, the speed-booster route is out of the question, as tourian would take FOREVER.

BlueGlass:

registered on 2005-10-05 06:20:34 pm.

Gender: male